OT: Aaron Hernandez CTE Results

[MadDogRevival]

Just announced that his CTE was dramatically advanced, and similar to what somebody 20 years older would have had.
I guess in any large population you are going to have variation in susceptibility to injury, and CTE susceptibility is not an exception.
Makes me wonder how much of a role his CTE played in his aggression, given that they are known to be connected. Maybe a violent, gang affiliated youth and CTE was a fatal combination.

I know that Hernandez, because of the multiple murders, will never be held out as anything but an example of a terrible waste of a life, but I wonder if he shouldn't be exhibit 1 in the argument against football.

But I posted this for a different reason. My son wasn't very athletic, so he only played one year of football, and that was a long time ago. For fathers (and mothers) with young boys and teens, do you let you kids play football? Where do you think football is going?

 

[mauconnfan]

I'm really happy that my son played basketball, baseball and volleyball and didn't spend time on the gridiron, I'm even happier he stayed away from the gang life of nearby Springfield.

I mean reality is that he seemed to be a nice kid while playing at Bristol Central, not who he turned out to be. Was it CTE, did he start already with gangs or did the Florida experience with different cultures change some things as well? CTE is scary but no one really knows the answer here despite these findings.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I think how advanced his case is has mostly to do with his drug (including meth) history rather than some normal variation of a response to repeated trauma. Or maybe he just got concussed a lot more than is “typical”

 

[MadDogRevival]

I think how advanced his case is has mostly to do with his drug (including meth) history

I don't believe drug use causes or worsens CTE. Have you read that somewhere?
I have read that CTE can result in a higher likelihood of drug use.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I don't believe drug use causes or worsens CTE. Have you read that somewhere?
I have read that CTE can result in a higher likelihood of drug use.

Lol have you met a meth user? You think they have normal brains? You think street meth coursing through the blood and brain won’t exacerbate damage?

Brain injury is my job. Drugs especially like meth and crack are awful for the brain.

Drug use is not causally linked to CTE. The typically damaged areas from repeated frontal trauma most commonly found in CTE involve social cognition, executive functions, judgment and insight, behavioral inhibition, personality and mood, all when disordered can lead someone to abuse drugs.

Don’t read about CTE. Read about neuroanatomy and physiology. Then CTE will make intuitive sense.

 

[boog204]

Lol have you met a meth user? You think they have normal brains? You think street meth coursing through the blood and brain won’t exacerbate damage?

Brain injury is my job. Drugs especially like meth and crack are awful for the brain.

Drug use is not causally linked to CTE. The typically damaged areas from repeated frontal trauma most commonly found in CTE involve social cognition, executive functions, judgment and insight, behavioral inhibition, personality and mood, all when disordered can lead someone to abuse drugs.

Don’t read about CTE. Read about neuroanatomy and physiology. Then CTE will make intuitive sense.

Is there a brain surgeon on the BY? That doesn't seem right. Nice schoolin' of us casual brain folks!

 

[Rocktheworld]

Is there a brain surgeon on the BY? That doesn't seem right. Nice schoolin' of us casual brain folks!

I actually come at this from a clinical perspective, I’m just a speech pathologist at a hospital. But of course managing brain injury of various forms is something I do on a daily basis

 

[Horatio]

I played football from about pee wee level to two years of college. It was my entire life. I played all the time as a child and didn't play any other sport. I've only had about five concussions during that time but I've had two knee surgeries. I remember standing on the field at my last practice in college and deciding that I'm done and never coming back. It was mid season .I hated the sport. I only played Div 3 ball but I'm starting to see teammates have knee and hip replacements. That's insane. Knee and hip Replacements and these guys only made it to Div 3 ball. The first thing the doctors say to these guys after seeing the x-rays is " you played football didn't you". It's not worth it Unless your getting a scholarship and a degree and even that might not be worth it. I've been offered opportunities to help coach kids and I won't go near it. It's a brutal sport.

My guess is the sport will become flag football up until the 8th grade. Kids won't get equipment until that grade. Practice with equipment will probably decrease on all levels .

 

[methodology]

Maybe in the Northeast the decline in football might happen at the youth levels but in the South and Midwest it's not going to ever change it's a culture down there it's a way of life

 

[MadDogRevival]

Lol have you met a meth user? You think they have normal brains? You think street meth coursing through the blood and brain won’t exacerbate damage?

1. I have met dozens of meth users. I am friends with many. Only one or two are hard core addicts. Had to escort a woman out of my bar's bathroom the other day - my wife disposed of the needle she left behind. We're out in the sticks in a socioeconomically impoverished area. Meth use is rampant. My ex-bartender just got married to a locally famous meth user and fabricator. He was severely burned while shake-and-baking meth in a section 8 building. Did 5 years for that. Judges don't like meth.
So - "lol" - yes. I am more familiar with meth users than most anybody you'll meet who is not a meth user.
2. I have no idea what a "normal" brain is. Do I think long term meth use causes brain damage? Of course. That's medically documented.

But your original post seemed to suggest that meth use caused or worsened CTE, which I had never heard or read. So I politely asked you for clarification. Your response was unnecessarily snarky. Why?

You seem to be suggesting that meth use "exacerbates" damage caused by CTE.

I haven't read anything that concludes that meth use worsens CTE. Have you? If so, can you point me to it?

The reason that's important is because it would shift some blame for A. Hernandez' condition to him for knowingly using meth, rather than on football for unknowingly, at the time, causing CTE.

Like I wrote up top, I understand that people despise this guy, I'm just wondering out loud how he would have turned out if he played basketball instead of football.

 

[MadDogRevival]

I remember standing on the field at my last practice in college and deciding that I'm done and never coming back. It was mid season .I hated the sport.

I feel you on that. Tough moment. I had that moment in baseball for a different reason. Had played it my whole life. It was my life. My parents adored baseball, we watched every Mets' game, my dad coached. I was a catcher. Sitting on a bus, coming home from a game in Greenwich, the bus had a tire blow, so the driver was keeping it at 20 mph the whole way, it was in the 30s outside, I was freezing, I had only played half the game because the coach liked the other catcher better than me, even though my stats were better, and I didn't love being part of the H.S. team as much as I had the rec leagues. Right then and there I knew I was done.

 

[superjohn]

I think how advanced his case is has mostly to do with his drug (including meth) history rather than some normal variation of a response to repeated trauma. Or maybe he just got concussed a lot more than is “typical”

Doctors disagree with you.

 

[jazyj]

I think how advanced his case is has mostly to do with his drug (including meth) history rather than some normal variation of a response to repeated trauma. Or maybe he just got concussed a lot more than is “typical”

That’s some strong meth if it can rock your brain.

 

[Rocktheworld]

1. I have met dozens of meth users. I am friends with many. Only one or two are hard core addicts. Had to escort a woman out of my bar's bathroom the other day - my wife disposed of the needle she left behind. We're out in the sticks in a socioeconomically impoverished area. Meth use is rampant. My ex-bartender just got married to a locally famous meth user and fabricator. He was severely burned while shake-and-baking meth in a section 8 building. Did 5 years for that. Judges don't like meth.
So - "lol" - yes. I am more familiar with meth users than most anybody you'll meet who is not a meth user.

Congratulations

2. I have no idea what a "normal" brain is. Do I think long term meth use causes brain damage? Of course. That's medically documented.

But your original post seemed to suggest that meth use caused or worsened CTE, which I had never heard or read. So I politely asked you for clarification. Your response was unnecessarily snarky. Why?


You seem to be suggesting that meth use "exacerbates" damage caused by CTE.

I haven't read anything that concludes that meth use worsens CTE. Have you? If so, can you point me to it?

My premise is that if you introduce a substance that is known to be toxic to a damaged and healing organ, the damage will be made worse and the recovery will be poorer. No I have not read it anywhere; makes intuitive sense to me as a non-lay person but maybe that intuition has failed me. I imagine secondary drug use concerns are taking a back seat in the research right now

The reason that's important is because it would shift some blame for A. Hernandez' condition to him for knowingly using meth, rather than on football for unknowingly, at the time, causing CTE.

All I’ve done is posit why I think Hernandez may have had such a severe case. As I said in my first post, it very well may be just that he had had an abnormally high volume of TBI (relative to other football players); but the meth history should not be ignored

It’s a chicken and egg thing that we will probably never figure out

Like I wrote up top, I understand that people despise this guy, I'm just wondering out loud how he would have turned out if he played basketball instead of football.

Well the gang aspect would still be in place there so who knows, ultimate outcomes may have been similar

 

[MadDogRevival]

Congratulations

Once again, no need to be nasty. You asked, I answered.

My premise is that if you introduce a substance that is known to be toxic to a damaged and healing organ, the damage will be made worse and the recovery will be poorer.

Well, seems like a wild and unkind guess that is unsupported by any science.

No I have not read it anywhere; makes intuitive sense to me as a non-lay person

Non lay person? You're a speech therapist? Using intuition? For the purposes of the causes of CTE and the relationship of CTE and meth use, you are a lay person.

 

[boog204]

I actually come at this from a clinical perspective, I’m just a speech pathologist at a hospital. But of course managing brain injury of various forms is something I do on a daily basis

Oh man, I wasn't trying to insult you or anything. You responded with an incredibly informed viewpoint and I tried to make a dumb joke insinuating that incredibly informed viewpoints are quite rare around here. Absolutely was not doubting your credentials or anything like that and I certainly apologize if that's how the post came off!

 

[auggie22]

given that the suspicions of his meth use are well documented, and that this has not been mentioned in any of the articles describing the extent of CTE that was discovered post examination, I am going to reasonably infer that not only does science not support the link between CTE and meth use, but lay people don't either.

 

[BaZZnBOAT]

I think that, regardless of the whole "drugs give you CTE" argument going on, I think it can be agreed that football is not ideal for the developing brain. Even regardless of concussions, constant head impact to an unfinished organ, the ESSENTIAL organ, is not a good thing. It's that simple. If you play football, you should know that you run this risk, and parents/coaches should have to sign off on this potential impact to the kid.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Oh man, I wasn't trying to insult you or anything. You responded with an incredibly informed viewpoint and I tried to make a dumb joke insinuating that incredibly informed viewpoints are quite rare around here. Absolutely was not doubting your credentials or anything like that and I certainly apologize if that's how the post came off!

Didn’t take it negatively my man, no worries

 

[Rocktheworld]

Well, seems like a wild and unkind guess that is unsupported by any science.

More so a highly educated guess that is far from wild

Non lay person?

Someone who knows more than a lay person, without calling myself an expert or authority (I’m neither).

You're a speech therapist?

Yup

Using intuition?

Call it an informed opinion; I guess that’s more accurate

For the purposes of the causes of CTE and the relationship of CTE and meth use, you are a lay person.

I do have a significant professional and academic background in neuroscience and cognition, as well as their pathologies. So my knowledge base regarding this topic, an extension of neuroscience and cognition, makes me the antithesis of a lay person

Lol sorry bud

 

[FartMan69]

Thought he used PCP?

 

[superjohn]

Thought he used PCP?

He did, seems Rocko and others think PCP and Meth are the same thing.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Thought he used PCP?

Lol even worse probably, forgot or mixed up the details my bad

 

[dennismenace]

given that the suspicions of his meth use are well documented, and that this has not been mentioned in any of the articles describing the extent of CTE that was discovered post examination, I am going to reasonably infer that not only does science not support the link between CTE and meth use, but lay people don't either.

Anyone know what angel dust (PCP) does to the brain? I never heard anything about any meth use but there was a lot printed about angel dust. That stuff has some very scary and violent behavioral reactions.

 

[superjohn]

Anyone know what angel dust (PCP) does to the brain? I never heard anything about any meth use but there was a lot printed about angel dust. That stuff has some very scary and violent behavioral reactions.

Absolutely but from my understanding it doesn't mimic the effects of CTE in the brain. My guess is he started using dust because of his already damaged brain but none of us know. Only docs who study the brain have any sort of grasp on what's really going on.