Oregon vs Notre Dame - 3/26/18

[Dillon77]

I don't really think UConn will blow out Notre Dame. I expect a fairly close game w/ UConn winning. It's been quite a while since ND has beaten the Huskies.

With the benefit of a few hours sleep, congrats to Oregon on a fantastic season. Sabrina is a joy to watch, both from a mental and emotional level. Love the way she plays. And Hebard finishes. (A few too many pitter-patts on first steps for my taste when we play against her, but -- hey -- take what the ref gives you.) And Coach Graves has got a great temperament. I can only shudder at how many open jumpers ND transfer Erin Boley will bury off passes from Ionescu next season. The future is very bright for the Ducks.

Now, as for this Friday,
The Irish will have to:
- start off scoring with the Huskies from the get go. Away from home, Marina Mabrey does this, often carrying the Irish until Arike gets in gear. If I'm UConn, I aim mucho efforts at Mabrey2.
- be careful with the ball. S. Carolina's turnovers were like giving mulligans to Tiger Woods in his prime. Once again, that's primarily on Marina Mabrey, but also Jackie Young (no cross-court passes, Jackie!) and Kat Westbeld's entry passes from the foul line/elbow.
- battle the Huskies on 50-50s. Re: rebounding, imperative for both teams to sweep the defensive boards so they can get into transition. IMHO, no two teams take to the break like the Irish and Huskies.

As for loose balls, tough task because I feel like the Huskies are a team of triathletes and -- while the Irish are in better shape than most think -- no one is going to accuse Shep or Koko Nelson of running long distance races; and, Kat Westbeld probably couldn't now with her ankle injuries. But just don't give up on the loose balls. This will fall primarily to Young, Ogunbowale and ...who else.. Mabrey.

That's pre-coffee, the day after.

UConn's on a mission, ND's (re)defined who they are since they last saw UConn. Should be a good game.
Go Irish...proud of them regardless.

 

[HoopsFan21]

I don't really think UConn will blow out Notre Dame. I expect a fairly close game w/ UConn winning. It's been quite a while since ND has beaten the Huskies.

ND has had some success in beating us in this game, not sure of the exact record, but ND beating us in the semifinal would not be unheard of.

 

[Dillon77]

I watched the game and it was pretty entertaining. Oregon is quite good and was the best team I saw of the four who came up short in this round. ND played well in spite of their short bench. Westbeld had a game a senior needs to get back to a FF and carried them for a few stretches. Was a fairly hostile environment but ND responded.

Oregon will be back. Ionescu is exceptional.

The extended road trip to intense venues (Oregon State, Western Kentucky and some place in Connecticut) and the showcase tournament in Florida (played S. Carolina) paid benefits for the Irish. It was a good game...Ionescu is exceptional, Hebard will continue to add to her game and now Sabrina will have Erin Boley to feed on open jumpers (which she won't miss). Kat's awesome....btw, she has a 6'2" younger sister, Maddie...maybe the Irish can double up on the Westbeld fam.

 

[Dillon77]

Congratulations Dillon. That was quite a ride this season. I know you are as happy as we are to advance. It's not easy getting to this point, and nothing is promised or guaranteed. The BY will be buzzing with speculation and concern this week. We expect you and Orangutan to chime in with your takes and observations. It's always nice to read takes and opinions from outside the kingdom.

Thanks, Scoop.
We're not going to sugar coat it...everyone was worried about playing Oregon over the course of the weekend. Legs were a bit tired (Arike and Jackie were coming up short on jumpers), but MM and staff drew up and the team carried out the half-time adjustments. Couldn't be more proud and an alum, ND parent and fan.

Should be a great game...these two teams will give Bball fans a game that will not only be good, but great to watch (love the way they both play).

 

[oldude]

ND has done extremely well to make it to the FF despite all the injuries they’ve suffered this season. Last night the Irish exposed the lack of athleticism of Oregon’s Big’s, and that Ionescu can be forced into bad decisions when pressured. While the MOV was closer, the game played out much the same as UConn’s 28 pt win over the Ducks in last year’s elite 8.

As for the ND - UConn rematch, I would simply point out that earlier in the season, ND had a healthy Lexi Thompson. Gabby was suffering from migraines, was not effective in the 1st half so Geno sat her down in the 2nd half, Lou reinjured her foot, missing most of the 4th qtr and the Huskies still won.

I expect the Huskies to be playing in their 12th National Championship game next Sunday night.

 

[Paesano]

I've been a BB fan since the first time I saw the game on TV in the fifties. When every Knick game was on TV. I don't complain about calls. You're going to get favorable calls in your building, they'll get some in theirs. Players are aware of this. Your team should be good enough so that it never comes down to calls. The best teams win anyway, no matter the adversity. Let your coach fight for territory, players should just play.

Yes, the players have to play through a poorly reffed game. But I am a fan, not one of the players, so I can complain about the treatment ND gets everywhere, not just at home. And I don't agree that the best teams win anyway. When a game is allowed to be excessively physical, it negates skill and athleticism advantages and, sonetimes, that is enough for the lesser team to win.

Look, it hasn't been as bad lately but there were games in the past where it was brutally bad. The players do their best to adjust but, as a fan, I am not going to say they had a bad game when, in reality, the refs allowed them to get hacked. It absolutely has biten us in the past and it concerns me every time we play ND.

 

[nyfanofwbb]

UCONN's defense can be exhausting causing frustration and missed shots by opponents and has also gotten much better as the season went along. Z has gotten better and even Megan can give a few minutes to give someone else a breather. The girls are on a mission. I think they beat ND by 25!

 

[Waquoit]

Lucky UConn...get to play a young USC team with ZERO three point shooters in the elite 8 and a Notre Dame team with like 4 players out with torn ACL's in the national semi's....cake walk to the championship game. MSU on the other hand has to play UCLA with their 5 McDonald's all americans on their roster in the elite 8 and Louisville in the national semi's. Oh well, will make it that much sweeter when we win it all for our first time this season.

 

[donalddoowop]

Ok, I have to ask, why the angst against the PAC 12 when they place 4 in sweet 16, 3 in the Elite 8 and your trashing their league? I think it’s pretty good and deeper and better than any other save the ACC.

I did not trash the Pac 12. However, you did not answer my question. Are there any elite teams in the Pac 12? The league is balanced and there are good teams in it. Oregon is the closest to being elite. When they face teams like UCONN and ND their inexperience shows as it did last night. I enjoy watching Pac 12 games and I watch them all season long and I know it is a good league. Trashing is your word, not mine..

 

[donalddoowop]

I think Oregon was solidly the #5 team this year. They’ll only get better next year with almost everyone back and they add in the younger Sabally and transfer Boley.

Notre Dame will also be significantly better if Turner is fully recovered, and Oregon State will be quite good. Then you have loaded Texas and Baylor. UCONN should still be the overwhelming favorite with three #1 recruits, Collier, Stevens, Dangerfield and ONO on the roster.

I believe that next season Oregon will be elite and one of the top four teams in the country. Oregon State will be good and Notre Dame may well be the number one team in the nation. It's not just Turner getting well. Seeing how far they have come this season with so many players injured, I think they will be very hard to beat next season. They will have a formidable front court. As far as Texas and Baylor, the talent will be there but, the coaching will still be the same. It remains to be seen what their coaches will do with all that talent. If UCONN has any players who will play defense anywhere near what Gabby and Kia played and if they get the commitment from Ezi, then I think they will be the favorite but not an overwhelming favorite. They will also need Walker and the bench to play at a higher level and I think they will.

 

[Carnac]

I'll simply say that I disagree that she unquestionably deserves COY, not to diminish her wonderful job. Schaefer certainly has a case as do all the FF coaches. It definitely looks like a great Final Four with the 4 best teams all year making it to Columbus.

You certainly may disagree. I stand fast on my take that McGraw should be named COY, for losing 4 players including 2 pg and her starting center, and still found A way to get to Columbus. She did more with less. She is down to 7 scholarship players, that's it!! That's all she had to work with. She motivated those 7 to play the best basketball of their lives.

How many players did Schaefer lose this year to season ending injury? I agree that Schaefer is an outstanding coach, but this year, Muffet reached the same plateau he did with a lot less help, and players playing out of position. If you choose not to recognize those facts, so be it.

If he had lost McCowan, two other starters and a reserve to season ending injury, would they have still achieved the success they did? Would they be playing this weekend? We both know the answer to that question. I'm not a ND fan or a McGraw fan. But In fairness, I must recognize an exceptional coaching and player management achievement when I see one. None of the other coaches was dealt the hand she was forced to play. If McGraw is not COY, who is?

 

[DefenseBB]

I did not trash the Pac 12. However, you did not answer my question. Are there any elite teams in the Pac 12? The league is balanced and there are good teams in it. Oregon is the closest to being elite. When they face teams like UCONN and ND their inexperience shows as it did last night. I enjoy watching Pac 12 games and I watch them all season long and I know it is a good league. Trashing is your word, not mine..

Doowop-here's your quote
"Ionescu is going to have to play better against the elite teams outside of the Pac 12 before she can be truly rated a POY type player"

The only way anyone can interpret that is you dismissing the PAC12 as not being so great if Sabrina is to be rated a POY player.

So let's answer your question- How many "elite teams" are in WCBB? Maybe 5. Probably only 4. Oregon is the top team over there, after them is OSU and Stanford, then UCLA.
SEC has one-MSU,
ACC has ND and Louisville.
AAC has UConn. So let's name a superstar who has performed well against those teams. I mean get a bit real on your assessment. She is a sophomore and she definitely struggled at times last night especially after Mabry started her typical chippyness (I am so looking forward to Kia and KLS against her). But she has performed well against OOC teams.

For perspective, Wilson has had what 2 of the 5 games as good against UConn? Vivians shot 35% from the field against SC in the SEC Title game won by SC. Asia Durr was shut down by UConn for 3 quarters when they played. Samuelson has had moments of struggles as well in big games.

My take is for you to say that about Ionescu after 1 game to question her is a bit harsh. That's all.

 

[Los24]

I'm concerned Shepherd is going to be very aggressive with Z.

She should be more worried about Gabby and Pheesa guarding her... and for that matter trying to guard them.

 

[DefenseBB]

I'll simply say that I disagree that she unquestionably deserves COY, not to diminish her wonderful job. Schaefer certainly has a case as do all the FF coaches. It definitely looks like a great Final Four with the 4 best teams all year making it to Columbus.

I agree with you about the "unquestionably" aspect. She has 7 players, all of whom were top 40 HG ranked including #3, #10, #11 with #21, #24, #30, #39. I mean, how come UConn can play 7 deep for 2 years and it goes as normal but ND has to do it with as much or more talent and MM is a savant? Compare this talent to MSU- Vivians #24 and ....?

I do think the mental anguish of all the injuries takes a toll plus not having a point guard is rough. I do think she should win it but it is NOT unquestionable. Heck, even the ACC coaches thought Jeff Walz deserved COY over Muffet...

 

[bballnut90]

You certainly may disagree, I stand fast on my take that McGraw should be named COY, for losing 4 players including 2 pg and her starting center, and still found A way to get to Columbus. She did more with less. How many players did Schaefer lose this year to season ending injury? I agree that Schaefer is an outstanding coach, but this year, Muffet reached the same plateau he did with a lot less help, and players playing out of position. If you choose not to recognize those facts, so be it.
If he had lost McCowan, two other starters and a reserve to season ending injury, would they have still achieved the success they did? Would they be playing this weekend? We both know the answer to that question.

Notre Dame suffered those losses but still had the player personnel to make it work. They still have a physical 6-4 Shepard inside to make up for Turner, and Mabrey has been outstanding as PG after a rocky start. Different roster makeup than Mississippi State, so you can't equate losing Turner to losing McCowan. ND had Shepard cleared, while if Mississippi State lost McCowan, they'd have no one close to Shepard's caliber to replace her.

Moreover, if Muffet didn't have any top 20 recruits on her roster, would she have guided her team to a 36-1 record? It works both ways.

Schaefer's team has 0 top 20 recruits on the roster and they're 36-1 and dominated a good SEC conference this year. Notre Dame is short on players and Muffet has done a heck of a job, perhaps her best coaching effort yet, but Shepard/Young/Ogunbowale were all top 10 players coming out of HS, Westbeld and Mabrey in the 15-30 range IIRC. I wouldn't be upset if Muffet wins most of the COY awards, but I think hands down the award should go to Schaefer.

 

[Los24]

Yes, the players have to play through a poorly reffed game. But I am a fan, not one of the players, so I can complain about the treatment ND gets everywhere, not just at home. And I don't agree that the best teams win anyway. When a game is allowed to be excessively physical, it negates skill and athleticism advantages and, sonetimes, that is enough for the lesser team to win.

Look, it hasn't been as bad lately but there were games in the past where it was brutally bad. The players do their best to adjust but, as a fan, I am not going to say they had a bad game when, in reality, the refs allowed them to get hacked. It absolutely has biten us in the past and it concerns me every time we play ND.

The Maryland game last year bad foul calls (along with frosh PG raining 3s) allowed the Terps to stay in it far beyond than they should have... To Jordy's point, can't control it and you don't want it to let it get in your head on how you play. As a fan, you are allowed to complain about anything.

 

[dogged1]

Banking on the experience factor, I think Muffet makes just enough adjustments (2 or 3) to win this game.

Well, I didn't get there to give it the like it deserved when you posted this. But gotta say this is the spot on post of this thread.

 

[IWearShoes]

Notre Dame suffered those losses but still had the player personnel to make it work. They still have a physical 6-4 Shepard inside to make up for Turner, and Mabrey has been outstanding as PG after a rocky start. Different roster makeup than Mississippi State, so you can't equate losing Turner to losing McCowan. ND had Shepard cleared, while if Mississippi State lost McCowan, they'd have no one close to Shepard's caliber to replace her.

Moreover, if Muffet didn't have any top 20 recruits on her roster, would she have guided her team to a 36-1 record? It works both ways.

Schaefer's team has 0 top 20 recruits on the roster and they're 36-1 and dominated a good SEC conference this year. Notre Dame is short on players and Muffet has done a heck of a job, perhaps her best coaching effort yet, but Shepard/Young/Ogunbowale were all top 10 players coming out of HS, Westbeld and Mabrey in the 15-30 range IIRC. I wouldn't be upset if Muffet wins most of the COY awards, but I think hands down the award should go to Schaefer.

Literally, I couldn't have stated the case better. Both did a great job this year and it looks like both will get some recognition for it.

And in the midst of this discussion, Geno has another undefeated team in the Final Four. Just incredible.

 

[Orangutan]

I can't get over Turner's face here. Clearly she misses being on camera regularly!

 

[nwhoopfan]

Rebounding was about even after 1Q and still pretty close at half. ND ended up outrebounding UO 51-29! HUGE differential in the 2nd half. That's the ball game right there. ND was simply tougher than Oregon.

 

[Shades]

Well, I didn't get there to give it the like it deserved when you posted this. But gotta say this is the spot on post of this thread.

Can you name the adjustments that caused ND to be a +22 on the boards? That was the difference to me.

 

[Blueballer]

Lucky UConn...get to play a young USC team with ZERO three point shooters in the elite 8 and a Notre Dame team with like 4 players out with torn ACL's in the national semi's....cake walk to the championship game. MSU on the other hand has to play UCLA with their 5 McDonald's all americans on their roster in the elite 8 and Louisville in the national semi's. Oh well, will make it that much sweeter when we win it all for our first time this season.

"Lucky"? - The overall Number 1 seed earned the easier bracket. And by the way, is that the same "toothless" SC team that beat MSU in the Tourney Final by 11 recently?

 

[Dillon77]

Can you name the adjustments that caused ND to be a +22 on the boards? That was the difference to me.

Gosh, it looked pretty basic to me. Since the Irish were playing man-to-man defense largely, they were boxing out and going for the ball after the shot went up. All of Mabrey's 7 rebounds were defensive, the second most on the team (and she was chasing Oregon's 3-pt. specialists).
But the individual who took this most to heart was wing Jackie Young, who had 9 defensive boards and 4 offensive for a total of 13. And she was on Ionescu most of the 2nd half, to boot.

Jessica Shepard had 9 rebounds, although it seemed like more, and six of those were offensive. I just think she beat Hebard to and on the boards, something Hebard -- to her credit -- alluded to in the post-game press conference. Westbeld was also solid on the defensive boards (7), but she's always good at good old-fashioned boxing out.

 

[Dillon77]

Gosh, it looked pretty basic to me. Since the Irish were playing man-to-man defense largely, they were boxing out and going for the ball after the shot went up. All of Mabrey's 7 rebounds were defensive, the second most on the team (and she was chasing Oregon's 3-pt. specialists).
But the individual who took this most to heart was wing Jackie Young, who had 9 defensive boards and 4 offensive for a total of 13. And she was on Ionescu most of the 2nd half, to boot.

Jessica Shepard had 9 rebounds, although it seemed like more, and six of those were offensive. I just think she beat Hebard to and on the boards, something Hebard -- to her credit -- alluded to in the post-game press conference. Westbeld was also solid on the defensive boards (7), but she's always good at good old-fashioned boxing out.

On defense, McGraw had her forwards (Shepard, Westbeld and Koko Nelson) double team Oregon's guards off the screens and she thought that helped. I thought Mabrey, Young and Arike just did a better job of getting over them; Mabrey, in particular, was hedging and staying in peoples' faces.

But, I agree with you, I think it was the rebounding that really helped. And when ND rebounds, it allows them to run hard in transition and get easier buckets.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Maybe it was on another message board, someone mentioned Oregon played a lot of zone defense, which can lead to rebounding issues. Notre Dame grabbed a ton of O boards in the 2nd half. I saw several occasions where Shepard or Westbeld overpowered one of the Oregon guards who had rotated down into the key for an O board. Seems like Oregon was stuck w/ some schemes that weren't working but didn't make adjustments.