On Publicly Humiliating a College Student-Athlete

[HuskyNan]

Sarcasm Nan? I'm fine with sarcasm, just sayin'....

Not sarcasm. I’m a little p.o.’d that someone would make up stuff about Liz and tarnish Geno along with it.

 

[my2cents]

I am in agreement that public humiliation should be stopped. Unfortunately, we are seeing this is the highest levels of our society-very sad. That said, was what he said a public humiliation? I don't think any of the players were humiliated, maybe embarrassed.

Here's my condemnation: You do not know the reason why the MCDAA (as you call it, though the recent transfer was not a McDonald's AA) left the program. You are spinning your own misguided opinion and so until you know, DO NOT SPECULATE. You also do not know that their lives are "miserable" or if they are being psychologically damaged. If that were the case, there would have been accusations and investigations were it true. There have been no rumors of this ever coming to light and trust me, if it did happen, the rumors would have come out-they always do. Tread lightly on the accusations...

So we agree, public humiliation of a student athlete is wrong.
Players leave for a variety of reasons, I don't think they leave and sit out a year because they were having the time of their lives.
Also, losing confidence because you were publicly "embarrassed" or humiliated ( a difference without distinction) is a hit to the psyche.
My last point which no one seems to address here, do you think in the recruiting process, the players are told, they are going to be treated this way?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Not sarcasm. I’m a little p.o.’d that someone would make up stuff about Liz and tarnish Geno along with it.

I really cannot recall much at all about Liz's departure. I find this: "The expectations that we as coaches had for Liz and what Liz had in mind were two different things," Auriemma said in a UConn news release. "So it was obvious it was not going to work for either of us. We wish her the best." Sherwood leaves UConn ::

 

[HuskyNan]

I really cannot recall much at all about Liz's departure. I find this: "The expectations that we as coaches had for Liz and what Liz had in mind were two different things," Auriemma said in a UConn news release. "So it was obvious it was not going to work for either of us. We wish her the best." Sherwood leaves UConn ::

I have explained this many times in the past -Liz had an undiagnosed thyroid problem that caused her to gain weight and to suffer fatigue and low energy. It was diagnosed and she was put on the appropriate medication while at UConn. That was the “weight problem”.

She left because she always wanted to go to Vandy but chose UConn because she was trying to make a lot of people happy - her parents, her AAU coach (the infamous Rick Lopez), and others so she went where people expected her to go. But she was not where she wanted to be so she transferred.

The worst you can say about Liz is that she was too accommodating and made a somewhat immature decision, not surprising because she was a kid.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I have explained this many times in the past -Liz had an undiagnosed thyroid problem that caused her to gain weight and to suffer fatigue and low energy. It was diagnosed and she was put on the appropriate medication while at UConn. That was the “weight problem”.

She left because she always wanted to go to Vandy but chose UConn because she was trying to make a lot of people happy - her parents, her AAU coach (the infamous Rick Lopez), and others so she went where people expected her to go. But she was not where she wanted to be so she transferred.

The worst you can say about Liz is that she was too accommodating and made a somewhat immature decision, not surprising because she was a kid.

Good to know. Thanks. I found her engaging and she certainly supported her team mates.

 

[DefenseBB]

So we agree, public humiliation of a student athlete is wrong.
Players leave for a variety of reasons, I don't think they leave and sit out a year because they were having the time of their lives.
Also, losing confidence because you were publicly "embarrassed" or humiliated ( a difference without distinction) is a hit to the psyche.
My last point which no one seems to address here, do you think in the recruiting process, the players are told, they are going to be treated this way?

We agree that public humiliation is wrong and unfortunately I have seen this occur recently at a college program and it most definitely caused grief, athletes transferring and a coach being removed. What Geno did was NOT humiliation in my opinion and in virtually every other one elses opinion. The full story of why the player yet has not come out so for you speculate is wrong. I have my own reason and will keep them as such. They do not coincide with your view. Embarassed is most definitely different than humiliated. We will not agree on your view of this given your stance. I wish you well in posting and let the mods inform you on the risk of speculation and rumor.

 

[CL82]

I also agree that public criticism of players is common and arguably viewed as acceptable, while arguably not permitted by a non-coach teacher. (Could Professor Charles Kingsfield survie in academia today?)

One of my professors said that a particularly unprepared student was "a perfect example of why cousins shouldn't marry." I found that just a tad harsh.

 

[SVCBeercats]

As a newly minted IBMer I was sent to a seminar conducted by Dr. Fredrick Herzberg. The topic was job enrichment and his Motivator-Hygiene theory. There were probably 200 of us waiting for him to enter. There was one extremely large blackboard on wheels. Dr. Herzberg breezed in and wrote in the upper left-hand corner of the blackboard in relatively small letters - KITA. He put the chalk down. He promptly began to lecture and lead interactive situational analyses and experiments. Finally in the last hour of the last day of the week he pointed to KITA. He said everything we discussed relative to creating an environment which allows the employees to motivate themselves works for 99% of the employees. However, there is 1% of employees who need KITA - KICK IN THE ASS.

Perhaps student athletes fall into the one percent of students which need Geno's and other coaches' kick ass approach. By the way are you sure the topic you all discussed made the coaches uncomfortable?

P.S. I know of at least one professor who taught MBA courses who would return mid-term exams to each student while loudly announcing a student's grade. Less than a B got a long stare and a delayed release of the test. Occasionally if he sensed some number of the students were not understanding his lecture, he would point them out and tell them to remain seated. He would instruct the rest of us to quietly take a 20-30 minute break in hallway. Probably did embarrassed them, but he did help them keep up with the class by tutoring them.

 

[Mdoggie]

Someone post the video of his statement regarding AEH. Im sure one of you posting here has seen it right?
Maybe if we all see it the context maybe different

 

[Rocket009]

Good to know. Thanks. I found her engaging and she certainly supported her team mates.

I think the idea that he was harsh towards Liz Sherwood was from this article. He Saw It Coming

Maybe he could have chosen a better way to say what he was saying, but I'm guessing he wasn't saying anything that he hadn't said to her directly. Also I don't read this as being particularly critical of her as much as it's just the way it was and they hoped it had worked out differently.

 

[SVCBeercats]

My last point which no one seems to address here, do you think in the recruiting process, the players are told, they are going to be treated this way?

I believe when recruits visit UCONN, the coaches, and players; they also attend at least one practice. I doubt if Geno waters down this practice.

 

[gamer]

As an outsider, I couldn't believe my eyes if the quotes I read from Geno about AEH leaving are accurate. If what I read was right, he said she was leaving, not because she didn't fit in or like it at UConn, but because he didn't want her there, due to her never changing what he asked her to change. It made her sound like she was either to dumb to learn, or impossible to coach. How can that not be considered public humiliation? It could easily damage her future basketball career, not to mention the psychological effects on a 19 year old of the most legendary coach in the business talking about you that way publicly. I'm no expert on Tennessee. I remember Pat laying into her whole team publicly, but do not remember her singling out an individual like that.

Maybe what I read was inaccurate. I hope so. Neither being the best coach in the game nor a hot blooded Italian could justify that, IMHO.

 

[Mdoggie]

Relax people!

 

[TitleTown]

There always is a sentiment that these student athletes know what they are getting into. DT states that this isn't the truth. Do we really believe that a coach tells a potential recruit, " Hey come to my school, and I am going to make your life miserable? You will either improve as a player or be psychologically damaged for the remainder of your life. We already lost a MCDAA because of this.
My opinion, regardless of results, that its never acceptable to publicly humiliate another human being. These are non-paid , part time, student athletes...who are young.
After 11 titles, its time to chill out.

So the $25ok+ these student athletes receive in tuition, room+board, meal money, and stipends is not payment? These are adults who are a couple years away from being in the "real world" and should be treated as such. The reason Coach Auriemma has 11 titles is because he DOESN'T "chill out". "Chilling out" would be a huge disservice to these players! This isn't 10 yr old rec league basketball we are talking about here. Coach Auriemma is a master motivator and he uses any and all techniques to make these players the best they can be. Judging by the overwhelming love Auriemma receives from his former players they don't have a problem with his methods, and neither should you!

 

[HuskylnSC]

I was a very sensitive child who was medically diagnosed at 12 as in the process of a nervous breakdown. I was 6' 4", 185 pounder as a high school junior who went on to play under 18 internationally. As far as the psychological damage done by coaches, in my opinion it is greatly exaggerated and mostly by those who have not experienced it. As a fragile young man, I, like ALL of my teammates, did not wilt under criticisms, yelling, derogatory remarks. Team sports were the great strengthening of my early life. I learned not to give up. I learned that I can do it better and that there is another game tomorrow after a dispiriting loss. Do not worry about the athletes who go through the trials. Worry about those who have not had the opportunity.

 

[cbraarj]

That. Is. Not. What. Happened. With. Liz. Sherwood.

Geez, where does this stuff come from?

Try Genos book, Pursuit of Perfection Nan! She needed to lose weight, better nutrition orshe would not be playing! Because you are a mod. does not give you the right for your comments! It is amazing Nan that you knew the player I was talking about! The only times you respond to me is in a negative light and it is just ridiculous!

 

[Phil]

Someone post the video of his statement regarding AEH. Im sure one of you posting here has seen it right?
Maybe if we all see it the context maybe different

I saw it live.

That has shaped my contributions to this thread.

 

[msf22b]

I was surprised that it was she who left. She had so much exposure to the team and must have talked with Saniya

Who knows what Saniya (must have) told her.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I think the idea that he was harsh towards Liz Sherwood was from this article. He Saw It Coming

Maybe he could have chosen a better way to say what he was saying, but I'm guessing he wasn't saying anything that he hadn't said to her directly. Also I don't read this as being particularly critical of her as much as it's just the way it was and they hoped it had worked out differently.

Thanks for that background. Appreciate it. One quote in there, just a little common sense, caught my eye in relation to a little gathering in Philly last saturday: "The bottom line is, the kid's got to do what you ask her to do. If she doesn't ... this program's not for everybody.''

In Geno's Pursuit of Perfection he talks about his experience with Liz and he admits he probably made a mistake with her and talks a little coach player interaction and the need for a personal connection. This excerpt also has a fascinating bit about Geno getting into it with Brittany Hunter's mom and his t/c with Brittany when she told him she was headed to Duke and he told her it was a mistake. Geno

 

[cbraarj]

Not sarcasm. I’m a little p.o.’d that someone would make up stuff about Liz and tarnish Geno along with it.

It is in his book Pursuit of Perfection, Nan! At the end I said Geno did nothing wrong and that includes about the other player I did not mention but you did!

 

[RockyMTblue2]

She left because she always wanted to go to Vandy but chose UConn because she was trying to make a lot of people happy - her parents, her AAU coach (the infamous Rick Lopez), and others so she went where people expected her to go. But she was not where she wanted to be so she transferred.

To hear Geno tell it (in Pursuit of Perfection) her father at least wanted her to go to Vanderbilt or Notre Dame and they had an unpleasant exchange about the dad's perception that UConn was a "basketball factory." She had a knee issue and Geno used that as a wedge to ask her to work with their nutritionist and trainers to lose weight which would improve her basketball and long term quality of life. She did not. Liz's father and Geno went at it at the end of her freshman year and the rest is history.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Your anecdote about the differences between coaching and teaching is insightful and illuminating.

I also agree that public criticism of players is common and arguably viewed as acceptable, while arguably not permitted by a non-coach teacher. (Could Professor Charles Kingsfield survie in academia today?)

But I see a distinction between public statements, which might not be laudatory, and true humiliation.

I think we can all agree that (in public) calling someone a useless POS is over the line, while asking how on earth a basketball player could blow that lay-up is not over the line.

So the question is - how do we draw the line?

My worry is that in today's "get a trophy for showing up" environment, the line gets drawn in the wrong place.

I grant that any coach who stated that "I'll tell them once, and if they ever screw up, they're out of here" is not going to be a coach for long. But if a coach tells me that they will explain what is necesary again and again and again, but there's a limit—I don't see a problem. And while I get that it would be uncomfortable for a player to identified as failing that rule, I don't agree that mere discomfort rises to the level of "humiliation".

I'll also note it isn't my style to act that way, but I have no illusions that I have what it takes to be a top-ranked coach. Yes, it was uncomfortable to hear, but I don't agree it qualified as humiliation.

I get you PHIL.. Humiliation in this context deserves a definition---one I can't offer. But saying a player is not performing to my standards is not my definition. To be honest--off the top of my brain, I can't come up with a TRUE, of my beliefs, humiliation from Geno. However, humiliation or motivation--I don't hang my dirty laundry in public nor do I want my kids soiled laundry hung out to dry. It's just me but I don't like it , never have.

 

[donalddoowop]

Someone post the video of his statement regarding AEH. Im sure one of you posting here has seen it right?
Maybe if we all see it the context maybe different

Supposedly it was deleted. But many people have commented that they saw it. If it was not so bad then why was it deleted? The question is will that kind of thing negatively affect recruiting. If it does not then no harm was done. It does not matter what Boneyarders think about Geno's remarks. The only opinions that matter are the opinions of future recruits.

 

[GoUconn7961]

This thread is a head scratcher to me. Humiliation & criticism are two different things. Are we that bored that we're now dissecting Geno's sentences ad nauseam ? Perhaps we are all tired of winning? Since the onset of video and TV access to the team, locker rooms, his office, etc. there is no mystery about what will happen to/with a recruit that chooses to go to UConn. No mystery at all. He has a long history of being tough on players and I've heard just about every interview and none of them ever left me thinking that he scarred anyone for life. Humiliation scars you (trust me on this); criticism doesn't.

 

[HuskylnSC]

Also, I think the fact that only one team wins a national championship or even a conference championship is humiliating and demeaning. I'm going to write the NCAA and explain this to them and suggest that beginning next year all the teams get NCAA participation banners and all the girls get rings to demonstrate their commitment to the sport. And after that I hope I can get an invitation to Geno's retirement dinner because he sure can't maintain his demeaning humiliating techniques in a good kind considerate atmosphere.