On Publicly Humiliating a College Student-Athlete

[bags27]

The public calling out--what we frankly believe if we don't always state, is public humiliation--is so deeply disturbing to many of us fans.

I had dinner recently with some college coaches (including a WCBB coach) to discuss the ways that classroom teaching and coaching are similar. I learned a lot but probably made everyone uncomfortable by saying that there are (at least) 2 unbridgeable differences:

1. Coaches teach players to cheat. By that I mean that coaches encourage players to push the envelope and see whether or not refs call the foul and then adjust play as necessary. But teachers ARE the referees, and we consider it downright unethical to (say) hook your thumb in the other guy's shorts when he's trying to go up for a jump shot (my favorite "defense" when I was a kid--doesn't work anymore with 3 refs). What I would happily try to get away with on the court I would punish a student for the equivalent in the classroom.

2. To the current point: coaches yell at players in front of a zillion fans and a TV audience. While high school teachers might yell about behavioral problems, they rarely if ever do so about academic effort, and certainly college teachers never do. Public shouting--even humiliation--is considered a motivational tool for coaches, but a serious lapse on the part of the teacher.

Indeed, the place where appropriate public humiliation is most institutionalized is in the military. Lives are at stake, and it's essential that correct, responsible behavior be maintained. Throughout all recorded history, public humiliation--even selective execution!--has been the default motivational tool (although even there, it can go too far, as George Patton found out). Coaches are sometimes great teachers (Geno is the very best), but also always drill sergeants.

And thus the interesting problem for actual student-athletes (and WCBB players, unlike many (say) top-flight MCBB players and football players, really are student-athletes), is that they expect the whole college experience: classroom education, a social life, some community volunteer work, etc. Real student-athletes get the positive encouragement in the classroom and from peers, and the drill-sergeant approach from their coaches. That can be a very confusing and stressful mix for a young person used to the love and support of family and friends back home.

There is no easy answer here. For every player who graduates with emotional scars from a "tough love" program, like Geno runs or Pat ran, there are dozens who say that experience was the most important in their lives. If you feel a little down on Geno right now, watch the final minute of Rebecca Lobo's HoF induction speech.

 

[huskyd]

Players choose to come to UConn. They are not kidnapped and chained up in a cellar. If they want to go after they arrive, they can (and some do). We assume they choose to come because they are (or think they are) the very best. Presumably they know who Geno is; he doesn't pretend to be someone he is not. If you go to UConn, expect to be challenged every day to be your very best. Surely players communicate with each other about what to expect, and we hear frequently how well the system works. Like aging, playing for the Huskies isn't for the fragile. While the methods may be tough, the results are pretty impressive. So many former players have testified to the significance playing for Geno has had in their lives. Do you believe them? Hey, if the program isn't for you, find one you like better--as a player OR as a fan.
Finally, do I find everything Coach says endearing? No. Does he sometimes go too far? Maybe. He's both serious and funny--sometimes all at once. Take him or leave him. I'll take him.

 

[BostonCanuck]

Geno's methods (combined with CD's finishing school) change lives. Many Huskies go on to earn millions over the course of their careers. I recall a DT interview where she says that during recruiting she thought he was cool, two months after arriving as a freshman she hated this man, and today, just when you think there's a limit to his greatness... Lobo, Charles, they all have articulated their version of the same, and to a person they adore him today.

We're probably nearing the time when such methods can no longer be introduced in such a setting. But the results are there, and I for one am glad I lived through an era when they could.

 

[terif831]

Geno's methods (combined with CD's finishing school) change lives. Many Huskies go on to earn millions over the course of their careers. I recall a DT interview where she says that during recruiting she thought he was cool, two months after arriving as a freshman she hated this man, and today, just when you think there's a limit to his greatness... Lobo, Charles, they all have articulated their version of the same, and to a person they adore him today.

We're probably nearing the time when such methods can no longer be introduced in such a setting. But the results are there, and I for one am glad I lived through an era when they could.

Yes. We are not present at practices, nor at conferences with Coach in his office, nor for any other conversations or interactions - we only see what happens on the court, and we only hear what Coach and the players say in interviews and pressers. But what past players have to say about their time at UCONN, THAT is the litmus test, and with very few exceptions, it is overwhelmingly positive to the point where many of them become emotional when talking about it. They were there. We weren't. How can we argue with them?

 

[connie]

Real student-athletes get the positive encouragement in the classroom and from peers, and the drill-sergeant approach from their coaches.

I would hope that the drill-sergeant approach in the classroom cannot be foreclosed. When the student is ready, the teacher will arrive.

 

[my2cents]

There always is a sentiment that these student athletes know what they are getting into. DT states that this isn't the truth. Do we really believe that a coach tells a potential recruit, " Hey come to my school, and I am going to make your life miserable? You will either improve as a player or be psychologically damaged for the remainder of your life. We already lost a MCDAA because of this.
My opinion, regardless of results, that its never acceptable to publicly humiliate another human being. These are non-paid , part time, student athletes...who are young.
After 11 titles, its time to chill out.

 

[DefenseBB]

Bags brought up an interesting dilemma in that "drill-sergeant" mentality can and should apply to the actions/choices the player/student/soldier makes and not be a "personal attack" and often times those can get intertwined. There are far too many instances of coaches attacking the students based on personal items/issues. I have not seen Geno do that. I would wish he would tone down some of his "too public" criticism of the student-athlete, because they are young women who are learning and will make mistakes. I think what he does do is make it known he cares about the person while maybe being frustrated (or very frustrated) with the player. That's why both he and Pat Summit are revered by their former players-they both cared about the person while evolving the player.

He has often said it takes a special student-athlete to come to UConn and must have unwavering confidence to "break through" on the tough times. Many successfully navigate this, some do not. Rarely have we ever heard of a player state they do not like or respect Geno and CD.

 

[DefenseBB]

There always is a sentiment that these student athletes know what they are getting into. DT states that this isn't the truth. Do we really believe that a coach tells a potential recruit, " Hey come to my school, and I am going to make your life miserable? You will either improve as a player or be psychologically damaged for the remainder of your life. We already lost a MCDAA because of this.
My opinion, regardless of results, that its never acceptable to publicly humiliate another human being. These are non-paid , part time, student athletes...who are young.
After 11 titles, its time to chill out.

I am in agreement that public humiliation should be stopped. Unfortunately, we are seeing this is the highest levels of our society-very sad. That said, was what he said a public humiliation? I don't think any of the players were humiliated, maybe embarrassed.

Here's my condemnation: You do not know the reason why the MCDAA (as you call it, though the recent transfer was not a McDonald's AA) left the program. You are spinning your own misguided opinion and so until you know, DO NOT SPECULATE. You also do not know that their lives are "miserable" or if they are being psychologically damaged. If that were the case, there would have been accusations and investigations were it true. There have been no rumors of this ever coming to light and trust me, if it did happen, the rumors would have come out-they always do. Tread lightly on the accusations...

 

[BroadwayVa]

The public calling out--what we frankly believe if we don't always state, is public humiliation--is so deeply disturbing to many of us fans.

I had dinner recently with some college coaches (including a WCBB coach) to discuss the ways that classroom teaching and coaching are similar. I learned a lot but probably made everyone uncomfortable by saying that there are (at least) 2 unbridgeable differences:

1. Coaches teach players to cheat. By that I mean that coaches encourage players to push the envelope and see whether or not refs call the foul and then adjust play as necessary. But teachers ARE the referees, and we consider it downright unethical to (say) hook your thumb in the other guy's shorts when he's trying to go up for a jump shot (my favorite "defense" when I was a kid--doesn't work anymore with 3 refs). What I would happily try to get away with on the court I would punish a student for the equivalent in the classroom.

2. To the current point: coaches yell at players in front of a zillion fans and a TV audience. While high school teachers might yell about behavioral problems, they rarely if ever do so about academic effort, and certainly college teachers never do. Public shouting--even humiliation--is considered a motivational tool for coaches, but a serious lapse on the part of the teacher.

Indeed, the place where appropriate public humiliation is most institutionalized is in the military. Lives are at stake, and it's essential that correct, responsible behavior be maintained. Throughout all recorded history, public humiliation--even selective execution!--has been the default motivational tool (although even there, it can go too far, as George Patton found out). Coaches are sometimes great teachers (Geno is the very best), but also always drill sergeants.

And thus the interesting problem for actual student-athletes (and WCBB players, unlike many (say) top-flight MCBB players and football players, really are student-athletes), is that they expect the whole college experience: classroom education, a social life, some community volunteer work, etc. Real student-athletes get the positive encouragement in the classroom and from peers, and the drill-sergeant approach from their coaches. That can be a very confusing and stressful mix for a young person used to the love and support of family and friends back home.

There is no easy answer here. For every player who graduates with emotional scars from a "tough love" program, like Geno runs or Pat ran, there are dozens who say that experience was the most important in their lives. If you feel a little down on Geno right now, watch the final minute of Rebecca Lobo's HoF induction speech.

I agree with much of what you say
George Patton didn't get into trouble for verbal humiliation but for the SLAP's. (assault).He got in trouble with a minority of Americans and Ike. (I could speak of jealousy--but off board). As I read about that slap in my local paper, I was firmly in his camp--my brother and uncles didn't take to sick bay to avoid their sworn duty.

The significant different in Teacher, professor, and College coaches (particularly) humiliation and pushing the envelop in that areas is: Teacher (Unionized) and Professors are not seeking to maintain 1,3,4,8 million dollar salaries. So coaches know winning is the means of accelerating that salary by whatever means that gets them there. Teachers or Professor who choose using the media as their tool for motivation--do so at their professional regret.

 

[Twolf]

There always is a sentiment that these student athletes know what they are getting into. DT states that this isn't the truth. Do we really believe that a coach tells a potential recruit, " Hey come to my school, and I am going to make your life miserable? You will either improve as a player or be psychologically damaged for the remainder of your life. We already lost a MCDAA because of this.
My opinion, regardless of results, that its never acceptable to publicly humiliate another human being. These are non-paid , part time, student athletes...who are young.
After 11 titles, its time to chill out.

“After 11 titles, its time to chill out.”


JMO, but if Geno chilled out, 11 titles is exactly where his career would end up. He is 63 years old, and “chilling out” is not in his coaching DNA any more than it was in Pat Summit’s coaching DNA. Every coach coaches to their personality, and if they try to be someone else their players see through them immediately. There is a reason other coaches don’t try to be Geno, because if that’s not them, they would fall flat on their face. His methods work for him, and using the “swag” system (scientific wild arse guess) in my estimation when they no longer work he will hang up the whistle.

As for your idea that it is never acceptable to publicly humiliate another human being, personally I’m more than happy Harvey Weinstein or teachers who take advantage of their pupils, just as examples, are publicly humiliated.

 

[Phil]

Your anecdote about the differences between coaching and teaching is insightful and illuminating.

I also agree that public criticism of players is common and arguably viewed as acceptable, while arguably not permitted by a non-coach teacher. (Could Professor Charles Kingsfield survie in academia today?)

But I see a distinction between public statements, which might not be laudatory, and true humiliation.

I think we can all agree that (in public) calling someone a useless POS is over the line, while asking how on earth a basketball player could blow that lay-up is not over the line.

So the question is - how do we draw the line?

My worry is that in today's "get a trophy for showing up" environment, the line gets drawn in the wrong place.

I grant that any coach who stated that "I'll tell them once, and if they ever screw up, they're out of here" is not going to be a coach for long. But if a coach tells me that they will explain what is necesary again and again and again, but there's a limit—I don't see a problem. And while I get that it would be uncomfortable for a player to identified as failing that rule, I don't agree that mere discomfort rises to the level of "humiliation".

I'll also note it isn't my style to act that way, but I have no illusions that I have what it takes to be a top-ranked coach. Yes, it was uncomfortable to hear, but I don't agree it qualified as humiliation.

 

[Sifaka]

...was what he said a public humiliation? I don't think any of the players were humiliated, maybe embarrassed.

He didn't accuse the former player of lack of talent or good character, the two essentials for admittance to the program. There was an almost certain charge of insubordination. That charge is either factually correct or not. I don't know, but would tend to give credance to the coach. It is very much in the coach's interest for the player to succeed, rather than get evicted.

Is it humiliation to state the truth about a person's action?

 

[slug25]

I think there is an element of sexism in some posters’ reactions to Geno’s comments. Would they be so bothered by his remarks if he were coaching a men’s team? Do our young women need more protection from a plain-speaking coach?

 

[Bigboote]

1. Coaches teach players to cheat. By that I mean that coaches encourage players to push the envelope and see whether or not refs call the foul and then adjust play as necessary. But teachers ARE the referees, and we consider it downright unethical to (say) hook your thumb in the other guy's shorts when he's trying to go up for a jump shot (my favorite "defense" when I was a kid--doesn't work anymore with 3 refs). What I would happily try to get away with on the court I would punish a student for the equivalent in the classroom.

Couldn't disagree more with this point. If every single referee called exactly the same stuff, it might hold water. But what I'm getting from this paragraph is that the players should never do anything that could be considered a foul by the most strict ref, and everything else is cheating. But this is a human game, and you NEED to put a toe in the waters in the form of mixing it up a bit early to gauge how the game is going to be called. If you refuse to, you're putting yourself at a competitive disadvantage. "Don't use the tools you're given" is pretty poor teaching in my book.

As for the public humiliation part, I'm with you on that, but that's me. NCAA players are big kids, many of them world-class athletes, most are very bright; I assume those who were recruited by multiple programs familiarized themselves with the different coaching methods and gave that some weight in their choices.

 

[HoopsFan21]

There always is a sentiment that these student athletes know what they are getting into. DT states that this isn't the truth. Do we really believe that a coach tells a potential recruit, " Hey come to my school, and I am going to make your life miserable? You will either improve as a player or be psychologically damaged for the remainder of your life. We already lost a MCDAA because of this.
My opinion, regardless of results, that its never acceptable to publicly humiliate another human being. These are non-paid , part time, student athletes...who are young.
After 11 titles, its time to chill out.

Geno did say he's paying them $50k per year.

 

[BostonCanuck]

One other comment I'd make is that as harsh as some of his recent comments have been towards the bench, Megan and Z, they do not quite rise to what my definition of "public humiliation" would entail (accepting that we'd all draw the line somewhat differently on that one).

 

[OldAlum]

I thought his comment about AEH was unnecessary. But I cannot see it as "humiliation". He apparently told a player that if she could not or would not do as he instructed, then she couldn't be part of it. Obviously he thought she "could" or he would not have recruited her. But she wasn't doing whatever it was and chose to leave. Have to believe many (probably most) players have had a "crisis of faith" and managed to work through it. She did not.
I was surprised that it was she who left. She had so much exposure to the team and must have talked with Saniya who struggled mightily her first three years. I guess sometimes we really don't know how we will react to certain situations and personalities until we experience it for our self.
I didn't think he needed to say what was on the tape, but I don't think it is public humiliation.

 

[cbraarj]

Geno did say he's paying them $50k per year.

You are correct and it is called a scholarship!

 

[HuskyNan]

Regarding “humiliation” - you may think Geno is humiliating his players but the only opinions that matter are the players’. I would be stunned, shocked, and amazed if Geno hasn’t said exactly the same thing to the players in practice. Do they like Geno saying it in the press, probably not, but they’ve heard it all before.

Also, Geno would never, ever say anything that would harm a player’s psyche. He knows the players foe better than we do and if he feels that a player’s confidence or psyche is fragile, he will tear her differently. I’ve heard stories from parents of UConn players so I’m not just speculating.

 

[cbraarj]

Geno was just being honest about the situation. I doubt this is the first time he told a player it isnt working out for her at Uconn. He told one player she needed to lose weight or she will not play. Her conditioning was very poor and she ended up transferring. AEH needs to find the program that will allow her to play like she wants or as she said the right fit! They mean the same thing. Geno did nothing wrong!

 

[oldude]

I don’t know if anyone else noticed what I noticed right before the start of the game yesterday. Right on the bench MW & Kyla were laughing and smiling just like two teenagers without a care in the world. Subsequently, they both entered the game and played wonderfully.

Sometimes, I worry that we old farts waste far too much of the limited amount of time we have left on this earth.

 

[HopJim]

He didn't accuse the former player of lack of talent or good character, the two essentials for admittance to the program. There was an almost certain charge of insubordination. That charge is either factually correct or not. I don't know, but would tend to give credance to the coach. It is very much in the coach's interest for the player to succeed, rather than get evicted.

Is it humiliation to state the truth about a person's action?

While not as focused on this issue as some, Geno has said numerous times about numerous players, "how did you ever get a scholarship here." Seems like he is questioning their talent. While I think Geno often goes over the line, seems to work for some.

 

[HuskyNan]

Geno was just being honest about the situation. I doubt this is the first time he told a player it isnt working out for her at Uconn. He told one player she needed to lose weight or she will not play. Her conditioning was very poor and she ended up transferring. AEH needs to find the program that will allow her to play like she wants or as she said the right fit! They mean the same thing. Geno did nothing wrong!

That. Is. Not. What. Happened. With. Liz. Sherwood.

Geez, where does this stuff come from?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I guess I'm in a distinctly tiny minority, but: As a long time die hard fan of the Huskies I am good not letting the recruits of the world think a highly ranked freshman was unhappy with the program and walked away. I'm also thinking it is therapeutic for the target market to know it is the coaches way or the highway. Like it or not, these kids aren't just "rock stars", they are public figures and their comings and goings are news.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

That. Is. Not. What. Happened. With. Liz. Sherwood.

Geez, where does this stuff come from?

Sarcasm Nan? I'm fine with sarcasm, just sayin'....