On 3rd and long situations, and establishing an indentity.....
- Thread starter Carl Spackler
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BTW: Run, punt, defend?
Plays. All of it. Plays. Run play. Punt Play. Defensive play book.
Are plays more important than players?
Or are players more important than plays?
We've changed folks. The program has changed, and it's for the better. Players are more important than plays, and that's they way it needs to be in the college game. You don't have the time and professional ability to make every single player on the team perfect in college.
As soon as you realize it, you'll know that third down pass was the right call, and you'll start to realize why we could ahve been so much better than we actually are over the past few years.
Because it was plays over players before, but it wasn't consistent all over, and we didn't build a team nearly strong enough to do it that way.
We're consistent now, just an infant program though.
Plays. All of it. Plays. Run play. Punt Play. Defensive play book.
Are plays more important than players?
Or are players more important than plays?
We've changed folks. The program has changed, and it's for the better. Players are more important than plays, and that's they way it needs to be in the college game. You don't have the time and professional ability to make every single player on the team perfect in college.
As soon as you realize it, you'll know that third down pass was the right call, and you'll start to realize why we could ahve been so much better than we actually are over the past few years.
Because it was plays over players before, but it wasn't consistent all over, and we didn't build a team nearly strong enough to do it that way.
We're consistent now, just an infant program though.
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yes... nonsense.
winning creates all the cliches. 'toughness' 'gritty' 'warrior' 'heart of a champion' etc etc
if we run, punt, defend and win the game... we're 2-0 winning a 'tough road game' and then if we won our next few we become 'gritty enough to win the close games'. all these cliches are nonsense.
talent, execution, probability(putting your team in the right situations)... in that order... wins football games, wins basketball games, wins at business, wins at just about anything in life.
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No, he's the former yankeeconferenceghost from the other board.
Good guy, just completely wrong on this issue.
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Players put themselves in position to be afforded the opportunity to make certain plays in pressure situations. Up tothat point in the game, the O' hadn't done that. What do I tell them, I tell them in the film room and on the practice field that they need to make those plays throughout the game if they want us to call their number to make that play in a pivotal situation. Now get your arses to work, rah, rah, rah, cliche, cliche, cliche, curse word.
Coach Pasqualoni disagreed with you in an interview he just gave.
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ahh, i feel better now.
whaler11
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No offense, but if you think the program has improved based on what you saw on Saturday, you are a total and complete idiot.
That was a disgraceful coaching performance by people who should be better than that.
Based on one game, we've changed all right and not for the better.
I'm sure we could have been much better than going to the BCS, but I'm not going to lie to you - I enjoyed going to the BCS with a boring fashion more than I liked Vanderbilt returning a pick 6 to tie a game that was over.
That was a disgraceful coaching performance by people who should be better than that.
Based on one game, we've changed all right and not for the better.
I'm sure we could have been much better than going to the BCS, but I'm not going to lie to you - I enjoyed going to the BCS with a boring fashion more than I liked Vanderbilt returning a pick 6 to tie a game that was over.
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Unbelievable. These guys coached in the pros, you think they don't pay attention to papers? You think they don't know to say the right things for the papers? Both P and D agreed it was the best thing to do at the time, and they'd do it again.
Who here - among all you - has actually looked at the play? REally. It's easy these days. espn3.com replay. 2:51:57
Shotgun, single back right, 4 wide set. Seen this before? Not saying where.
Defense. 3 man line. 4 linebackers, strong safety short side of field in tight, 8 yards off the line. Ok - lets think about running at this. 5 lineman. single back 5 yards deep next to the QB. EIGHT guys on defense inside the first down distance needed for the run. Hmm - smart to run against that? Not if you want the players to succeed in getting a frist down.
As a QB, the way I know to look at the field, middle of field is wide open, coverage is in quarters. 4 man coverage shell dividing that field up equally. I as a QB have got 4 routes being run against those quarters. Don't know what they are yet, well I can make a real good guess, but you don't know for sure, technically, you don't until you've seen it before on film, or you're actually in the offense on the field.
That's all at 2:51:59.
OK - whoa wait - pause again at 2:52:00 - QB has already started his cadence, and guess what VAnderbilt is throwing the kitchen sink at the line of scrimmage. Seven guys rush into the line. Offensive line right now is making some choices, and that Running back better know who to pick up too. Strong safety is dropping back and now this defense has gone to 7 men at the line of scrimmage but still 4 deep in quarters coverage shell. We've got four pass routes coming out on this play. Very nice - I'm thinking, if I'm the QB.
As long as we pick up the blocks, and that's the most important thing - blocking and tackling, and the QB's got time, this is a high percentage play. It's a high percentage play to get a first down on third and long anyway - because...BECAUSE - nobody is double covered in that secondary, and the offense - always - ALWAYS has an advantage throwing the ball into single coverage. It's only exceptionally talented and highly film studied and prepped coverage guys (studying individual receivers) that can negate that advantage - and this ISN"T pro football.
Passing offense has gotten lost in the past 10 years. It is what is. We'll get it back.
Blocking is key. If all seven guys come, we've only got 6 there (5 lineman and a back) so somebody is coming free, and the QB knows he's going to have free pass rusher coming pressure, and have a hot read to make. This is where having a QB that can move his feet and play matador and do an OH-LAY to a rushing bull is very valueable. Regardless of what happens, the QB should be ready to make a hot play at this point.
2:52:02. Vandy only brings 5. Right tackle completely whiffs his block, probably confused based on the pressure look. The rest of the protection is perfect. But McEntee's got a rush coming into his face now, from the missed block, as he should have expected anyway.
McEntee stands like a statue, doesn't flinch, god bless the kid, but makes a terrible read. Throws to the short side sideline pattern, short side of the field in a 1/4's coverage. No space there at all in this play, that should be the last read, not your hot read. I don't know what he was thinking aside from getting the ball out of his hands with that guy coming. Because if he throws straight down the hash on that short side, he's got a window to hit Griffin who's wide open between the LB dropping off the line of scrimmage and the deep strong safety.
Can't see what the other two guys are doing on their routes on the other side, but I know. I won't say, exactly because I can't show the film, but I will say that making the seam throw to Griffin was just one possible, much better read agains that coverage shell, and if you could see the others on the clip - well....I'll leave it at that.
It was the right call to make, the players were put in position to succeed, the game was NOT lost on the play call, and the coaches showed confidence and consistency in their players to get a job done, that I guarantee they've practiced. Two players failed on this play. The right tackle, and the quarterback.
I guarantee they both know it, and are confident that if the opportunity should arise again, to run this kind of play again, they'll do their jobs right.
I recall being able to talk football, really talk football on the other site.
If there's anyone around here that really likes to look at football, I'll keep talking but I"m real tired of the arguments I get around here.
Put up the film. The QB made a terrible read against the coverages and feeling pressure. The right tackle whiffed his block.
That's football, and the right call was made, to put the players and team in position to maintain that drive and more importantly - WIN THE GAME.
Who here - among all you - has actually looked at the play? REally. It's easy these days. espn3.com replay. 2:51:57
Shotgun, single back right, 4 wide set. Seen this before? Not saying where.
Defense. 3 man line. 4 linebackers, strong safety short side of field in tight, 8 yards off the line. Ok - lets think about running at this. 5 lineman. single back 5 yards deep next to the QB. EIGHT guys on defense inside the first down distance needed for the run. Hmm - smart to run against that? Not if you want the players to succeed in getting a frist down.
As a QB, the way I know to look at the field, middle of field is wide open, coverage is in quarters. 4 man coverage shell dividing that field up equally. I as a QB have got 4 routes being run against those quarters. Don't know what they are yet, well I can make a real good guess, but you don't know for sure, technically, you don't until you've seen it before on film, or you're actually in the offense on the field.
That's all at 2:51:59.
OK - whoa wait - pause again at 2:52:00 - QB has already started his cadence, and guess what VAnderbilt is throwing the kitchen sink at the line of scrimmage. Seven guys rush into the line. Offensive line right now is making some choices, and that Running back better know who to pick up too. Strong safety is dropping back and now this defense has gone to 7 men at the line of scrimmage but still 4 deep in quarters coverage shell. We've got four pass routes coming out on this play. Very nice - I'm thinking, if I'm the QB.
As long as we pick up the blocks, and that's the most important thing - blocking and tackling, and the QB's got time, this is a high percentage play. It's a high percentage play to get a first down on third and long anyway - because...BECAUSE - nobody is double covered in that secondary, and the offense - always - ALWAYS has an advantage throwing the ball into single coverage. It's only exceptionally talented and highly film studied and prepped coverage guys (studying individual receivers) that can negate that advantage - and this ISN"T pro football.
Passing offense has gotten lost in the past 10 years. It is what is. We'll get it back.
Blocking is key. If all seven guys come, we've only got 6 there (5 lineman and a back) so somebody is coming free, and the QB knows he's going to have free pass rusher coming pressure, and have a hot read to make. This is where having a QB that can move his feet and play matador and do an OH-LAY to a rushing bull is very valueable. Regardless of what happens, the QB should be ready to make a hot play at this point.
2:52:02. Vandy only brings 5. Right tackle completely whiffs his block, probably confused based on the pressure look. The rest of the protection is perfect. But McEntee's got a rush coming into his face now, from the missed block, as he should have expected anyway.
McEntee stands like a statue, doesn't flinch, god bless the kid, but makes a terrible read. Throws to the short side sideline pattern, short side of the field in a 1/4's coverage. No space there at all in this play, that should be the last read, not your hot read. I don't know what he was thinking aside from getting the ball out of his hands with that guy coming. Because if he throws straight down the hash on that short side, he's got a window to hit Griffin who's wide open between the LB dropping off the line of scrimmage and the deep strong safety.
Can't see what the other two guys are doing on their routes on the other side, but I know. I won't say, exactly because I can't show the film, but I will say that making the seam throw to Griffin was just one possible, much better read agains that coverage shell, and if you could see the others on the clip - well....I'll leave it at that.
It was the right call to make, the players were put in position to succeed, the game was NOT lost on the play call, and the coaches showed confidence and consistency in their players to get a job done, that I guarantee they've practiced. Two players failed on this play. The right tackle, and the quarterback.
I guarantee they both know it, and are confident that if the opportunity should arise again, to run this kind of play again, they'll do their jobs right.
I recall being able to talk football, really talk football on the other site.
If there's anyone around here that really likes to look at football, I'll keep talking but I"m real tired of the arguments I get around here.
Put up the film. The QB made a terrible read against the coverages and feeling pressure. The right tackle whiffed his block.
That's football, and the right call was made, to put the players and team in position to maintain that drive and more importantly - WIN THE GAME.
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edit: passing offense always has the advantage in single coverage WHEN THE QB HAS TIME. This why our defense is set up to do what it does. A rushed QB, will have a lot of trouble finding the open receivers.
As we all know.
As we all know.
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i think there is a serious disconnect or lack of football knowledge going on here.
you do realize you don't have to get the first down in order for a play to be successful right?
do you have a knock a guy out on every punch you throw too?
you do realize you don't have to get the first down in order for a play to be successful right?
do you have a knock a guy out on every punch you throw too?
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Both of those events were entirely predictable given what had happened in the game to that point -- that is why the play call was a bad idea.
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That's the most pathetic thing I think I've read here.
I wonder if anyone really even realizes why that 3rd down was so important. I suppose, failing to realize it, is a HUGE reason as to why so many people have become conditioned that making such a call is actually detrimental to winning a game, rather than actually winning it. It's a bit frustrating actually.
Oh well.
Let's take a look, maybe this will help some understand why your football worlds are upside down and you might think that with 8 minutes to go in a game, and a touchdown lead, that playing prevent punt/field position/defense football is te way to go, even if your offense is stinking up the joint all game long.
Me - I'd rather just play offense, and build guys that can play offense, if you don't already have them, and go get more guys to play offense.
SO anyway :
http://www.cfbstats.com/2010/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category25/sort01.html
3rd down conversion rate:
2010 114 out 120 schools.
2009 55th out of 120 - this was a great year.
2008 100th out of 120
2007 99th out of 120 schools...
and it goes on and on.......
I say again, I'd rather build an offense on top of our special teams and defense.
I really miss talking football and getting good conversation.
oh well.
Game tonight!!
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No they weren't predictable. Because Troy Aikmen is able to complete long passes to Michael Irvin. LMFAO.
whaler11
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Hey, you win. There is no way that running the ball not getting the first down and punting to Vandy gave them a better chance of winning then throwing a Pick 6.
This conversation is beyond stupid for even the internet.
At this point I half expect a 15 page diatribe on why 2+2 only equaled 4 in the past because Edsall didn't have the correct synergies to make it 5.
This conversation is beyond stupid for even the internet.
At this point I half expect a 15 page diatribe on why 2+2 only equaled 4 in the past because Edsall didn't have the correct synergies to make it 5.
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What? Really? Last time I checked, success on third down is most commonly defined as converting to a first down.
And yes, absolutely, the goal is to knock down the other guy down if your boxing, and no, not every punch is thrown with the intent of knocking the opponent out.
But let me see - the analogy is that we should have thrown a 3 yard jab, and set Vanderbilt up for the knockout punt?
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If you want a boxing analogy, it would be the following. If you are in the late rounds and are comfortable that you are going to win the fight on points, and the only way you are going to lose is to get knocked out, you don't have to keep going to knock the other guy out and open yourself up for the lucky punch that costs you the bout.
That would be the boxing analogy.
whaler11
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Damn you beat me by a few seconds.
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Thanks. You've been thoughful. I disagree. I know - shocking. I disagree because that was the first time in that game that the whole 3 second thing that took umpteen paragraphs to describe, that situation presented itself. I'll leave it at that. If you want to find a different play in the game and show me I'm wrong, please do. Let's do it elsewhere somehow.
I'm tired of discussing football with people that don't get it. I came on this internet about a year ago now, because our team was a freaking disaster and it killed me and I felt like maybe giving an emotional voice out there in the wind was just one little way I could help.
The players on the 2010 squad that finished the season, will go down in history as some of the best and mentally toughest, because they reached a game very close to the pinnacle of college football, and they did it all their own, with their own will, and the stars aligned to make it possible.
We're on the right track now as an entire program.
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Us too!!
Coach P said in hind sight it was the wrong play to call in that situation. We were not in a MUST convert the 3rd down situation. Sometimes the smart play is to play for field position.
You are so deep in defending your argument that you're not even open to the idea that you might not be getting it. You are passionate about the game, that is great. You read a lot of books about the game and coaches, great. You can talk a lot about the game in the right language, wonderful, but you really don't get it here. It was a bad play call. Not just due to the end result of the play. I yelled at the TV as soon as he dropped back, before the ball even left his hand. That play did not protect/enhance our young QB's development or confidence at all. It did not give our team a better chance of winning the game. Theu juice was not worht the squeeze in this one specific instance. As much as you want to argue that it was great for his development/growth/whatever, it wasn't. You know what would have been great for his confidence, having him come home on the flight after just QB'ng his team to a win over an SEC team on the road. Then you take it to the film room and practice field to coach the kid up from the mistakes.
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Why? Why do you do this? Seriously TDH -- you know darn well you are not actually disagreeing with him here, because you know what he said is correct. You are disagreeing with the statement he did not make, which would have been "whenever you have the lead you don't have to worry about scoring more points because you've automatically won."
So I ask you, why do you need to pretend you're disagreeing with someone's point when in fact you're only disagreeing with what they aren't saying but is something you don't like as a UConn fan? This is very different than what Ghost is doing by the way -- he is actually disagreeing with people on a particular play call (I think -- the posts are so long that it's very hard to tell sometimes).
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What happened with the third down play at the end?
"Talking about the critical third down at the end, the one that was returned for the score, I think it was a four seam route, and they blitzed, and whether he's going to the inside guy or the outside guy, the ball got compressed, got squeezed, and the DB just squeezed it and made the play."
"We discussed about three different plays in that situation, and felt like we had a good safe play, but it didn't turn out that way. The combination of the squeeze and the blitz kind of got us."
-Paul Pasqualoni
www.uconnhuskies.com
That's immediately following the game, and they're still not sure what happened specifically (four seam route - a route tree with 4 receivers centered on the hash marks) - he says they blitzed, b/c he clearly saw them come up to the line, but he hasn't seen the film yet that they only brought 5 and the LB's were dropping out of the blitz) and knew that a hot read (inside guy or outside guy) had to be coming out because they only had 6 people to block 7 at the line.
He realized the ball went the wrong way, too on the hot read, because the ball (the field) was "compressed". In that situation the hot read should have been on the seam on the short side of the field or outside to the far hash, or wider.
They discussed a couple different plays, and settled on that one "a good SAFE play".
No is P going to say it was a situation where they didn't need to get the first down in the media three days later, (even though I've yet to see it cited) when there are polls in the papers that are totally against the call, when the entire fan base has been conditioned to play P**SY football.
Nobody cites anything, everybody knows what happened, and should have happened, but nobody looks at the actual game, and when I do, frame by frame, as I did before, as many of the 22 as you can see on the TV feeds - my posts are too long. it gets tiring.
I've given you folks all a lot of glimpses, I've talked about what it takes. I've put up all kinds of stuff on te emotion and intensity that needs to go into this game, in the past year. It still kills me the reponse I got when I suggested that Todman wasn't going to get drafted very high. Hell Edsall thought he would go.
I'm done. I'll continue to read like I always have and gobble everything I can up about this game I love, and my program. But I'm done, headed up to the stadium now. Looking forward to some old fashioned northeast football beating down those big old farmboys from Iowa.
"Talking about the critical third down at the end, the one that was returned for the score, I think it was a four seam route, and they blitzed, and whether he's going to the inside guy or the outside guy, the ball got compressed, got squeezed, and the DB just squeezed it and made the play."
"We discussed about three different plays in that situation, and felt like we had a good safe play, but it didn't turn out that way. The combination of the squeeze and the blitz kind of got us."
-Paul Pasqualoni
www.uconnhuskies.com
That's immediately following the game, and they're still not sure what happened specifically (four seam route - a route tree with 4 receivers centered on the hash marks) - he says they blitzed, b/c he clearly saw them come up to the line, but he hasn't seen the film yet that they only brought 5 and the LB's were dropping out of the blitz) and knew that a hot read (inside guy or outside guy) had to be coming out because they only had 6 people to block 7 at the line.
He realized the ball went the wrong way, too on the hot read, because the ball (the field) was "compressed". In that situation the hot read should have been on the seam on the short side of the field or outside to the far hash, or wider.
They discussed a couple different plays, and settled on that one "a good SAFE play".
No is P going to say it was a situation where they didn't need to get the first down in the media three days later, (even though I've yet to see it cited) when there are polls in the papers that are totally against the call, when the entire fan base has been conditioned to play P**SY football.
Nobody cites anything, everybody knows what happened, and should have happened, but nobody looks at the actual game, and when I do, frame by frame, as I did before, as many of the 22 as you can see on the TV feeds - my posts are too long. it gets tiring.
I've given you folks all a lot of glimpses, I've talked about what it takes. I've put up all kinds of stuff on te emotion and intensity that needs to go into this game, in the past year. It still kills me the reponse I got when I suggested that Todman wasn't going to get drafted very high. Hell Edsall thought he would go.
I'm done. I'll continue to read like I always have and gobble everything I can up about this game I love, and my program. But I'm done, headed up to the stadium now. Looking forward to some old fashioned northeast football beating down those big old farmboys from Iowa.
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Wow, now I really don't know what I think. So after analysis "I'm not actually disagreeing with him, because I know what he said is correct, but I'm disagreeing with the statement he didn't make.
I'm only pretending to disagree with someone's point . . . I'm disagreeing with what they aren't saying , but is something I don't like as a UConn fan? 
Huh?What I'm absolutely sure I was doing, Biz, was responding to the quote: "The really strange thing is when you are winning, you don't actually have to score anymore to win the game". The UNC game was the case in point because. . . well . . . I felt it had some basis of comparison. And for the record, I was adhering to a strong belief that since you can't be sure with 8 minutes left in a close game (which that certainly was) that your "winning" margin (a mere 7 points in the Vandy game) is gonna hold up, the best thing a team can do is . . . score more points.
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