On 3rd and long situations, and establishing an indentity..... | Page 3 | The Boneyard

On 3rd and long situations, and establishing an indentity.....

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And therein lies the problem. UConn shouldn't be a run only program. That's not how the game is played in most quarters through the college landscape. It has become a passing game for the most part. Now, yes there are teams that certainly prefer the run to the pass, but still have to be able to do both. At some point you're gonna you will probably need to play catch up and . . . how do you suddenly become effective at something you avoid on a regular basis.


No one "wants" UConn to be a run only program. Who are you fighting with? Why do you have these hostile discussions with no one disagreeing?

The discussion, the one that people are actually having, is whether we increased our chances of winning by throwing the 3rd and long pass with 7 minutes left. As I told ghost, if you think we did, great. Most everyone thinks you are wrong, but there is no way for anyone to prove right or wrong and you are entitled to your opinion. But please recognize that our failure to recruit better QBs than Bones and DJ seven years ago, or even better than we did between 3 and 4 years ago, is totally irrelevant to whether, faced with the reality of the situation, we should have thrown the ball there or ran, punted and won with defense.

Please also remember, ghost's "strategy" of drowning everyone in cliches notwithstanding, if you think we did increase our chances of winning by throwing there saying it once and then walking away would be a good strategy BECAUSE IN FACT WE TRIED DOING THAT AND IT BLEW UP IN OUR FACE. Just sayin.
 
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The sseds of a successful offense -- how about recruiting and developing playmakers at WR and QB? As opposed to this crap about, to use a basketball expression, not playing within yourself.

Really? You think things haven't changed regarding recruiting? The focus on developing playmakers? Oh wow. Yes - I agree how about focusing on that.

I'm pretty sure somewhere along the way, I've discussed exactly those things. How the hell do you get a QB to want to come and play at UConn, if you don't throw the ball in a situatino where you want a QB to throw the ball? I suggested this elsewhere, and people, don't remember who, immediately jumped on me for suggesting that I might think thgat's more important than winning the game or some horsesh*t like that.

Focus on developing playmakers? how the hell do you do that, if you don't call their numbers in pressure situations in games, to go out and do what they've done in practice?

Is that maybe lost on some here? Does anybody think these coaches are calling plays that they haven't practiced?
 
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Save the nonsense about 'believing in your players' and 'building a winner'.

??????? Nonsense ??????
 
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We tried doing it and it blew up in our face. Yup. It seems to me that many around here would rather stop trying to do it, or not try it all, because they're afraid that it would blow up in their face. That attitude left in January, but it's left a stain.

Just trying to wash it off.
 
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The discussion, the one that people are actually having, is whether we increased our chances of winning by throwing the 3rd and long pass with 7 minutes left.

No, we did not increase our chances of winning by throwing the 3rd and long pass with 7 minutes left. Should I ask for a receipt, Biz? Never disagreed with that. At that point everyone knew that UConn would have to throw the ball for a first down or be forced to punt. There was no element of surprise. Where we would have increased our chances of winning by throwing was on first and second down when Vandy was most assuridly defending against the all too predictable runs.

Sort of like debating whether a fastball or slider or change up was the right pitch with the count full on the hitter while ignoring that the pitcher was up 0-2 and made lousy decisions on what to throw and where to throw it that ultimately turned into his undoing.
 
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We tried doing it and it blew up in our face. Yup. It seems to me that many around here would rather stop trying to do it, or not try it all, because they're afraid that it would blow up in their face. That attitude left in January, but it's left a stain.

Just trying to wash it off.

.I am really finding it difficult to not use unflattering adjectives at this point. Whether Bill Walsh or Randy Edsall was our coach last year, the only reason anyone here is calling P's decision dumb is because the best way to win the game on third and long was to run, punt and defend. For the fifth time at least, if you disagree, fine, but this incessant belief that throwing cliches out strengthens your argument is absurd. Are you afraid to succeed because you won't bet on a number on a roulette wheel where you're given 10 to 1 odds and there are thirty numbers? No -- you are choosing to do the sane, rational thing to maximize your gain. Even if the guy behind you starts calling you a chicken and telling you you've been conditioned by Randy Edsall.
 
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Honestly, this thread has had more strawman arguments interjected into it that I simply don't know if we're even arguing or discussing the same thing anymore. Maybe it's time to put this to bed and focus on tomorrow night.
 
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Honestly, this thread has had more strawman arguments interjected into it that I simply don't know if we're even arguing or discussing the same thing anymore. Maybe it's time to put this to bed and focus on tomorrow night.

That's fair Jimmy. People can start focusing on why if we lose tomorrow night, no matter how, that will be on Edsall as well.
 
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Run, punt, defend huh? That's great. with 8 minutes still on the clock, and a 7 point lead. That makes me want to go out and play. Not.

Go tell a football player who's job it is to play on the offensive side of the ball that's how we're going to do things when it comes to pressure situations on offense in tight games.

Unbelieveable. And since recruiting was brought up, I wonder if there's a correlation to why were hitting the field right now, playing with the hand we've got on the offensive side of the ball.

The call was the right one to make, to give the team the best chance to win the game, because players are more important than plays. The call did not cost us the game, and the idea that running 8 minutes of clock down on defense and special teams is insane, and it's easier to score points when you've actually got possession of the ball, than on special teams and defense.

The fact that our defense and special teams are where they are and the offense is where it is makes me completely bananas when I think about it. Any sort of semblance of a balanced offense and this program could be so much farther along than it is.

As much as defense was forgotten in the 1990s when Skippy was here, the entire concept of offense has gotten lost while Edsall was here.

And players are more important than plays, we will find players, and we will make players out of the ones we've got, and these coaches are going aobut their business, and these players are hungry to get better and perform.

Whine all you want about run, punt, defend. That's not how I look at football. We disagree.

On to Iowa State.
 
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the discussion can go on forever.
but there really isn't any reason for it

did anyone listen to coach P on WTIC last night?
http://nyc.podcast.play.it/media/d0...5561563149513244229_dYdSsitxprMz1aKXjJUP14BoQ

he said he made a mistake throwing the ball on that play.
"the decision on my part was probably a little over-aggressive."
"that play was the deciding factor in the game"
"i've got to not get carried away and maybe play it a little closer to the vest in that particular situation in that particular style of game"

If that isn't enough to convince everyone that it was a mistake to throw the ball on that play, then there is no hope
 
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holy ... is Carl the same guy as thughost from the other board?

ayyyyyy why did i just waste my day replying to this guy.
 
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BTW: Run, punt, defend?

Plays. All of it. Plays. Run play. Punt Play. Defensive play book.

Are plays more important than players?

Or are players more important than plays?

We've changed folks. The program has changed, and it's for the better. Players are more important than plays, and that's they way it needs to be in the college game. You don't have the time and professional ability to make every single player on the team perfect in college.

As soon as you realize it, you'll know that third down pass was the right call, and you'll start to realize why we could ahve been so much better than we actually are over the past few years.

Because it was plays over players before, but it wasn't consistent all over, and we didn't build a team nearly strong enough to do it that way.

We're consistent now, just an infant program though.
 
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Save the nonsense about 'believing in your players' and 'building a winner'.

??????? Nonsense ??????

yes... nonsense.

winning creates all the cliches. 'toughness' 'gritty' 'warrior' 'heart of a champion' etc etc

if we run, punt, defend and win the game... we're 2-0 winning a 'tough road game' and then if we won our next few we become 'gritty enough to win the close games'. all these cliches are nonsense.

talent, execution, probability(putting your team in the right situations)... in that order... wins football games, wins basketball games, wins at business, wins at just about anything in life.
 
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holy ... is Carl the same guy as thughost from the other board?

ayyyyyy why did i just waste my day replying to this guy.

No, he's the former yankeeconferenceghost from the other board.

Good guy, just completely wrong on this issue.
 
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Go tell a football player who's job it is to play on the offensive side of the ball that's how we're going to do things when it comes to pressure situations on offense in tight games.

Players put themselves in position to be afforded the opportunity to make certain plays in pressure situations. Up tothat point in the game, the O' hadn't done that. What do I tell them, I tell them in the film room and on the practice field that they need to make those plays throughout the game if they want us to call their number to make that play in a pivotal situation. Now get your arses to work, rah, rah, rah, cliche, cliche, cliche, curse word.

The call was the right one to make, to give the team the best chance to win the game
Coach Pasqualoni disagreed with you in an interview he just gave.
 

CTMike

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A) Philosophically, it was important for us to be aggressive in that situation, for the tone/direction of our program, etc.
B) It probably wasn't the best call to win the game.

My head hurts.
 

whaler11

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No offense, but if you think the program has improved based on what you saw on Saturday, you are a total and complete idiot.

That was a disgraceful coaching performance by people who should be better than that.

Based on one game, we've changed all right and not for the better.

I'm sure we could have been much better than going to the BCS, but I'm not going to lie to you - I enjoyed going to the BCS with a boring fashion more than I liked Vanderbilt returning a pick 6 to tie a game that was over.

BTW: Run, punt, defend?

Plays. All of it. Plays. Run play. Punt Play. Defensive play book.

Are plays more important than players?

Or are players more important than plays?

We've changed folks. The program has changed, and it's for the better. Players are more important than plays, and that's they way it needs to be in the college game. You don't have the time and professional ability to make every single player on the team perfect in college.

As soon as you realize it, you'll know that third down pass was the right call, and you'll start to realize why we could ahve been so much better than we actually are over the past few years.

Because it was plays over players before, but it wasn't consistent all over, and we didn't build a team nearly strong enough to do it that way.

We're consistent now, just an infant program though.
 
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Unbelievable. These guys coached in the pros, you think they don't pay attention to papers? You think they don't know to say the right things for the papers? Both P and D agreed it was the best thing to do at the time, and they'd do it again.

Who here - among all you - has actually looked at the play? REally. It's easy these days. espn3.com replay. 2:51:57

Shotgun, single back right, 4 wide set. Seen this before? Not saying where.

Defense. 3 man line. 4 linebackers, strong safety short side of field in tight, 8 yards off the line. Ok - lets think about running at this. 5 lineman. single back 5 yards deep next to the QB. EIGHT guys on defense inside the first down distance needed for the run. Hmm - smart to run against that? Not if you want the players to succeed in getting a frist down.

As a QB, the way I know to look at the field, middle of field is wide open, coverage is in quarters. 4 man coverage shell dividing that field up equally. I as a QB have got 4 routes being run against those quarters. Don't know what they are yet, well I can make a real good guess, but you don't know for sure, technically, you don't until you've seen it before on film, or you're actually in the offense on the field.

That's all at 2:51:59.

OK - whoa wait - pause again at 2:52:00 - QB has already started his cadence, and guess what VAnderbilt is throwing the kitchen sink at the line of scrimmage. Seven guys rush into the line. Offensive line right now is making some choices, and that Running back better know who to pick up too. Strong safety is dropping back and now this defense has gone to 7 men at the line of scrimmage but still 4 deep in quarters coverage shell. We've got four pass routes coming out on this play. Very nice - I'm thinking, if I'm the QB.

As long as we pick up the blocks, and that's the most important thing - blocking and tackling, and the QB's got time, this is a high percentage play. It's a high percentage play to get a first down on third and long anyway - because...BECAUSE - nobody is double covered in that secondary, and the offense - always - ALWAYS has an advantage throwing the ball into single coverage. It's only exceptionally talented and highly film studied and prepped coverage guys (studying individual receivers) that can negate that advantage - and this ISN"T pro football.

Passing offense has gotten lost in the past 10 years. It is what is. We'll get it back.

Blocking is key. If all seven guys come, we've only got 6 there (5 lineman and a back) so somebody is coming free, and the QB knows he's going to have free pass rusher coming pressure, and have a hot read to make. This is where having a QB that can move his feet and play matador and do an OH-LAY to a rushing bull is very valueable. Regardless of what happens, the QB should be ready to make a hot play at this point.

2:52:02. Vandy only brings 5. Right tackle completely whiffs his block, probably confused based on the pressure look. The rest of the protection is perfect. But McEntee's got a rush coming into his face now, from the missed block, as he should have expected anyway.

McEntee stands like a statue, doesn't flinch, god bless the kid, but makes a terrible read. Throws to the short side sideline pattern, short side of the field in a 1/4's coverage. No space there at all in this play, that should be the last read, not your hot read. I don't know what he was thinking aside from getting the ball out of his hands with that guy coming. Because if he throws straight down the hash on that short side, he's got a window to hit Griffin who's wide open between the LB dropping off the line of scrimmage and the deep strong safety.

Can't see what the other two guys are doing on their routes on the other side, but I know. I won't say, exactly because I can't show the film, but I will say that making the seam throw to Griffin was just one possible, much better read agains that coverage shell, and if you could see the others on the clip - well....I'll leave it at that.

It was the right call to make, the players were put in position to succeed, the game was NOT lost on the play call, and the coaches showed confidence and consistency in their players to get a job done, that I guarantee they've practiced. Two players failed on this play. The right tackle, and the quarterback.

I guarantee they both know it, and are confident that if the opportunity should arise again, to run this kind of play again, they'll do their jobs right.

I recall being able to talk football, really talk football on the other site.

If there's anyone around here that really likes to look at football, I'll keep talking but I"m real tired of the arguments I get around here.

Put up the film. The QB made a terrible read against the coverages and feeling pressure. The right tackle whiffed his block.

That's football, and the right call was made, to put the players and team in position to maintain that drive and more importantly - WIN THE GAME.
 
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edit: passing offense always has the advantage in single coverage WHEN THE QB HAS TIME. This why our defense is set up to do what it does. A rushed QB, will have a lot of trouble finding the open receivers.

As we all know.
 

whaler11

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Guy, it's the same people at both sites.

The right call was made? I think it's time to just finally chalk you up as the most long winded troll in history.
 
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i think there is a serious disconnect or lack of football knowledge going on here.

you do realize you don't have to get the first down in order for a play to be successful right?

do you have a knock a guy out on every punch you throw too?
 

whaler11

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The really strange thing is when you are winning, you don't actually have to score anymore to win the game.
 
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Put up the film. The QB made a terrible read against the coverages and feeling pressure. The right tackle whiffed his block.

Both of those events were entirely predictable given what had happened in the game to that point -- that is why the play call was a bad idea.
 
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