Ollie fighting to keep his job..Link from ESPN

[bblanco15]

Wait @bblanco15 , are you actually suggesting "just cause" absolutely must be limited to purported NCAA infractions? Could be (or perhaps not), but why would you inexplicably believe UConn could not know about possible infractions which would potentially lead to NCAA penalties before the NCAA concludes an investigation?

That's why I was asking because there was a post in this thread saying that the Union representative on Ollie's behalf said they are still waiting on a final decision from the NCAA and if there is an infraction they will need to know what category the infraction is?

 

[2PointGuards]

Ollie will contest UConn's firing for 'just cause'

They should have cut a deal with Ollie, rather than go through the humiliation of loosing over their manufactured "just cause" they don't have the money to pay him.

 

[August_West]

You're not replying to me but I'll answer anyway. You settle because you want to know exactly what Ollie is going to cost you and to move on rapidly. Hiring the new coach will depend in part on the cost certainty you have with Ollie's buyout. Ollie will be motivated to settle to preserve his reputation, and put himself in better position for another job.

Here is the thing.
Either the university is justified in applying the "Cause" to get out of the buyout, or they are not. If they are justified in applying cause, then there is no reason the university should settle. They can save 10 million dollars.

If they weren't justified in applying the cause clause then Ollie should actually get his 10 million.


I think the university jerking around with half-measures (if that is what they are in fact doing) is going to cost us in the long run with prospective coaches either through heavier front loaded contracts where people in absence of buyout guarantees will want Bonuses up front (and any coach worth their salt will be able to demand this) because we can't be trusted to not play dirty.

Forget Ollie he's gone. I dont care anymore. Has nothing to do with the decision to let him go.

Right now Im watching how this administration handles this, and does anybody really have confidence in this administration not absolutely making this a giagantic clusterf%$# where we alienate top coaches with a transparent end around?

If UConn has cause and it sticks for cause, stay with it and save the 10 million and then this whole thing doesnt have stink all over it.

Otherwise pay the man his money.



Trust me . I get that the 1000 lawyers on this board are going to say "Everything is a negotiation" and it is. I get it. But all Im saying is this "negotiation" has some potentially pretty terrible optics for this University that can only be guaranteed to not possibly come back and bite us by either being justified in the show cause application they are trying to apply, or paying the buyout.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Here is the thing.
Either the university is justified in applying the "Cause" to get out of the buyout, or they are not. If they are justified in applying cause, then there is no reason the university should settle. They can save 10 million dollars.

If they weren't justified in applying the cause clause then Ollie should actually get his 10 million.


I think the university jerking around with half-measures (if that is what they are in fact doing) is going to cost us in the long run with prospective coaches either through heavier front loaded contracts where people in absence of buyout guarantees will want Bonuses up front (and any coach worth their salt will be able to demand this) because we can't be trusted to not play dirty.

Forget Ollie he's gone. I dont care anymore. Has nothing to do with the decision to let him go.

Right now Im watching how this administration handles this, and does anybody really have confidence in this administration not absolutely making this a giagantic clusterf%$# where we alienate top coaches with a transparent end around?

If UConn has cause and it sticks for cause, stay with it and save the 10 million and then this whole thing doesnt have stink all over it.

Otherwise pay the man his money.



Trust me . I get that the 1000 lawyers on this board are going to say "Everything is a negotiation" and it is. I get it. But all Im saying is this "negotiation" has some potentially pretty terrible optics for this University that can only be guaranteed to not possibly come back and bite us by either being justified in the show cause application they are trying to apply, or paying the buyout.

You are going to cost yourself a lot of money if you prioritize optics over the agreement.

And the optics here aren't even all that bad. The dude got paid for 6 years, 4 of them as a Top-10 paid coach, and he left with a NCAA investigation ongoing. If the university's actions scare off a coach, I think we should consider that a blessing.

 

[intlzncster]

Here is the thing.
Either the university is justified in applying the "Cause" to get out of the buyout, or they are not. If they are justified in applying cause, then there is no reason the university should settle. They can save 10 million dollars.

If they weren't justified in applying the cause clause then Ollie should actually get his 10 million.


I think the university jerking around with half-measures (if that is what they are in fact doing) is going to cost us in the long run with prospective coaches either through heavier front loaded contracts where people in absence of buyout guarantees will want Bonuses up front (and any coach worth their salt will be able to demand this) because we can't be trusted to not play dirty.

Forget Ollie he's gone. I dont care anymore. Has nothing to do with the decision to let him go.

Right now Im watching how this administration handles this, and does anybody really have confidence in this administration not absolutely making this a giagantic clusterf%$# where we alienate top coaches with a transparent end around?

If UConn has cause and it sticks for cause, stay with it and save the 10 million and then this whole thing doesnt have stink all over it.

Otherwise pay the man his money.



Trust me . I get that the 1000 lawyers on this board are going to say "Everything is a negotiation" and it is. I get it. But all Im saying is this "negotiation" has some potentially pretty terrible optics for this University that can only be guaranteed to not possibly come back and bite us by either being justified in the show cause application they are trying to apply, or paying the buyout.

If we weren't under NCAA investigation right now, you might be right. But who knows what's behind the door on this?

I don't think it's going to affect any future candidates whatsoever. Up and coming coaches are hungry for their shot. If you are one of them, are you going to turn down a big name job because you are worried there will be a tussle 5 years down the road? Probably not. There's just not that many jobs out there. If you turn it down, there's 20 candidates scrambling to take it. And no guarantee you'll get another similar gig in the future anyway.

Hasn't hurt other schools. Florida football couldn't hire the next coach any faster.

 

[August_West]

You are going to cost yourself a lot of money if you prioritize optics over the agreement.

And the optics here aren't even all that bad. The dude got paid for 6 years, 4 of them as a Top-10 paid coach, and he left with a NCAA investigation ongoing. If the university's actions scare off a coach, I think we should consider that a blessing.

He also won a national title 4 years ago.

It would be naive to think that coaches aren't watching how this is handled.

Also aren't we costing ourselves a lot of money by not saving the full 10 million if Ollie in fact left us an NCAA investigation that triggered a show cause?

 

[Paesano]

They should have cut a deal with Ollie, rather than go through the humiliation of loosing over their manufactured "just cause" they don't have the money to pay him.

Oh, look, another member of the Ollie family. Sorry, but it is Ollie who will "loose".

 

[UCDaveD]

So is your position that the university should not settle this suit?

My position is that the University should do whatever they feel is in their best interest. Being as none of us are privy to a complete set of facts, I trust the AD, the office of the President, and the University’s legal council to make that determination. They obviously felt that firing the former coach for cause was the appropriate course of action. Whether they decide to settle will be another determination that they will make and I’ll support their decision there too.

There seem to be a few individuals around here who think that the University took the action that they did on a whim, without any due diligence. Those people, quite frankly, are morons. It’s also probably not a coincidence that they’re the same people who fervently supported the failing former coach and still do, even if it’s to the detriment of the university that they’re supposedly fans of.

 

[auggie22]

Out of curiosity if the NCAA has not concluded their investigation and ruled there was infractions how can the school determine "just cause"?

Internal investigation, obviously.

 

[Huskybass]

Is he though? Is there a scenario in which Dave B handled this so poorly he loses his job and the support from former players is overwhelming and Susan decides to keep KO??

Insanity. NEVER happen.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Specifically, which rumors are you referencing?

The "off the court" rumors. They have been posted about in passing here before.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

The "off the court" rumors. They have been posted about in passing here before.

OK, I must have missed those soap opera posters' contributions, or better have them on ignore. Hints?

 

[champs99and04]

Ollie > UConn for these fools

Justice > UConn for me. Maybe where you're from it's acceptable to cheat people of their money to solve budget issues, but I don't want to root for a school like that and I won't root for a school like that.

You see, to folks like you, this is about us choosing the coach over the school. It's not. This is about rejecting the idea that such a choice is even possible in the first place. Kevin Ollie played four years here, represented the school for 12 years in the NBA, won a title here as an assistant coach, and then won a title as a head coach. If he's not UConn, then who is? Is it Susan Herbst? Is it Dave Benenedict? Dan Hurley? Tell me, because to my eye, this looks less and less like the school I grew up rooting for every time we alienate an alum in the name of managing deficits that we created. We bet big on Ollie and lost. The choice is to either cross your fingers for another year and hope that changes or swallow the buyout.

Perhaps there is language in the agreement that allows you to terminate the contract, but there is no such language stating I have to like it. #NotMyUConn

 

[Fishy]

I have a hard time mustering any sympathy for a guy who half-assed a $3.5M job. He had a great job that paid insanely well and he only put like four toes in when he felt like it. All of this is on him.

I guess the lesson is that if you’re going to half-ass a $3.5M job, try not to do anything crazy to put your buyout in jeopardy. Like maybe try to avoid doing stuff that makes the NCAA interview the local prep coaches and visit campus and that sort of thing.

The economics of our current situation mean that anything paid to Kevin Ollie will come in the form of a subsidy from the university, i.e. the students.

I’m rooting for the students in this one.

 

[KingAG]

Justice > UConn for me. Maybe where you're from it's acceptable to cheat people of their money to solve budget issues, but I don't want to root for a school like that and I won't root for a school like that.

You see, to folks like you, this is about us choosing the coach over the school. It's not. This is about rejecting the idea that such a choice is even possible in the first place. Kevin Ollie played four years here, represented the school for 12 years in the NBA, won a title here as an assistant coach, and then won a title as a head coach. If he's not UConn, then who is? Is it Susan Herbst? Is it Dave Benenedict? Dan Hurley? Tell me, because to my eye, this looks less and less like the school I grew up rooting for every time we alienate an alum in the name of managing deficits that we created. We bet big on Ollie and lost. The choice is to either cross your fingers for another year and hope that changes or swallow the buyout.

Perhaps there is language in the agreement that allows you to terminate the contract, but there is no such language stating I have to like it. #NotMyUConn

Lol, Jesus. Our fan base is so sheltered.

 

[uc1990]

I have a hard time mustering any sympathy for a guy who half-assed a $3.5M job. He had a great job that paid insanely well and he only put like four toes in when he felt like it. All of this is on him.

I guess the lesson is that if you’re going to half-ass a $3.5M job, try not to do anything crazy to put your buyout in jeopardy. Like maybe try to avoid doing stuff that makes the NCAA interview the local prep coaches and visit campus and that sort of thing.

The economics of our current situation mean that anything paid to Kevin Ollie will come in the form of a subsidy from the university, i.e. the students.

I’m rooting for the students in this one.

Forget sympathy for Ollie do you think how we handle this business will effect the hiring of a new coach?

 

[Huskybass]

Justice > UConn for me. Maybe where you're from it's acceptable to cheat people of their money to solve budget issues, but I don't want to root for a school like that and I won't root for a school like that.

You see, to folks like you, this is about us choosing the coach over the school. It's not. This is about rejecting the idea that such a choice is even possible in the first place. Kevin Ollie played four years here, represented the school for 12 years in the NBA, won a title here as an assistant coach, and then won a title as a head coach. If he's not UConn, then who is? Is it Susan Herbst? Is it Dave Benenedict? Dan Hurley? Tell me, because to my eye, this looks less and less like the school I grew up rooting for every time we alienate an alum in the name of managing deficits that we created. We bet big on Ollie and lost. The choice is to either cross your fingers for another year and hope that changes or swallow the buyout.

Perhaps there is language in the agreement that allows you to terminate the contract, but there is no such language stating I have to like it. #NotMyUConn

Cross your fingers for another year?

That coaching job was beyond bad. Other than free throw shooting, this team did nothing well. Nobody but a relative handful of Ollie supporters wanted another year of that. The University wouldn't have fired him for "cause" if there wasn't some substance to it. I am certain UConn's legal counsel reviewed and approved the decision prior to it being official. Some of the details will surface soon. Probably best to reserve judgment until then.

 

[dennismenace]

Counter point: yes they should.

You either control the money or you don't.

If you don't control the money, you benefit from union representation.

Doesn't matter how much you make.

I think in the courts you do control the money if you perform to the terms of the contract. Contract law = offer and acceptance and performance. Burden of proof is on the employer if their is termination for "just cause". Moral:
perform the terms of the contract and you are entitled to the consideration (money and other benefits) for performance.

 

[8893]

I have a hard time mustering any sympathy for a guy who half-assed a $3.5M job. He had a great job that paid insanely well and he only put like four toes in when he felt like it. All of this is on him.

I guess the lesson is that if you’re going to half-ass a $3.5M job, try not to do anything crazy to put your buyout in jeopardy. Like maybe try to avoid doing stuff that makes the NCAA interview the local prep coaches and visit campus and that sort of thing.

The economics of our current situation mean that anything paid to Kevin Ollie will come in the form of a subsidy from the university, i.e. the students.

I’m rooting for the students in this one.

Sympathy and rooting are irrelevant to my take, but I would like to see them resolve it in a manner that does the least damage to the university and to him; right now it appears as though they are on the opposite path imo.

 

[UConnDad]

Sympathy and rooting are irrelevant to my take, but I would like to see them resolve it in a manner that does the least damage to the university and to him; right now it appears as though they are on the opposite path imo.

Right, and a speedy resolution at that. As for the poster that's calling other posters morons, wow you have all the answers. The fact is this appears to have been handled badly. It looks worse the longer it takes.

 

[djct1999]

Forget sympathy for Ollie do you think how we handle this business will effect the hiring of a new coach?

Nope. The dismissal of Ollie for cause and the negotiating of the buyout is how/what every athletic department in America would do given our circumstances.

 

[Paesano]

Justice > UConn for me. Maybe where you're from it's acceptable to cheat people of their money to solve budget issues, but I don't want to root for a school like that and I won't root for a school like that.

You see, to folks like you, this is about us choosing the coach over the school. It's not. This is about rejecting the idea that such a choice is even possible in the first place. Kevin Ollie played four years here, represented the school for 12 years in the NBA, won a title here as an assistant coach, and then won a title as a head coach. If he's not UConn, then who is? Is it Susan Herbst? Is it Dave Benenedict? Dan Hurley? Tell me, because to my eye, this looks less and less like the school I grew up rooting for every time we alienate an alum in the name of managing deficits that we created. We bet big on Ollie and lost. The choice is to either cross your fingers for another year and hope that changes or swallow the buyout.

Perhaps there is language in the agreement that allows you to terminate the contract, but there is no such language stating I have to like it. #NotMyUConn

You are either full of crap or hopelessly delusional. As Fishy pointed out, he didn't do his job for at least two years. He wasn't just bad at it. He barely tried. He cheated the university out of 6+ million. I am rooting for the university, the program and the students.

As for how this will impact hiring the next coach, they have nothing to fear so long as they don't both suck and break NCAA or university rules. The next coach either will assume he is going to be successful or we don't want him. This situation is actually a good thing as it helps weed out the weak. The moral of this story is, don't suck and, if you do, don't break rules.

 

[dennismenace]

Sympathy and rooting are irrelevant to my take, but I would like to see them resolve it in a manner that does the least damage to the university and to him; right now it appears as though they are on the opposite path imo.

You may be right on the direction. There are now three parties (not two) involved. KO, University and the Union. Each has different motives. Let's hope that a reasonable and quick resolution prevails.

 

[August_West]

This is what kills me.

The day before Ollie was fired we have a thread on this board laughing at the way Pittsburgh is trying to apply the cause firing to Stallings. About how transparent and pathetic it looks.
Then the next day we come out and top it, but it ain’t so funny anymore.
All of this is absolutely conjecture for now until we know exactly what UConn is hitting him with and we see what shakes out.

There are two recent cases of cause.

No one in the country thinks Louisville was playing dirty by doing Pitino. It made sense. He screwed up and didn’t deserve a dime.

In the media right now Pittsburgh and UConn are getting questioned as trying to pull an end around. It has the potential to be a mess

Let’s see what UConns cards are.


Sympathy for Ollie?

None. I’m the guy who says don’t give him ONE DIME if we are justified to apply cause.

 

[HooperScooper]

Forget sympathy for Ollie do you think how we handle this business will effect the hiring of a new coach?

Do you think Louisville's handling of Pitino will effect their hiring of a new coach?

Did Tennessee's handling of Bruce Pearl effect their search?

If UConn's handling of Ollie bothers a prospective coach they're interviewing then that guy is telling you he's O.K. with NCAA violations. In which case I'm moving on to the next candidate.

 

[August_West]

Do you think Louisville's handling of Pitino will effect their hiring of a new coach?

Did Tennessee's handling of Bruce Pearl effect their search?

If UConn's handling of Ollie bothers a prospective coach they're interviewing then that guy is telling you he's O.K. with NCAA violations. In which case I'm moving on to the next candidate.

You can't say that yet because we don't know the cause reason.

Also Louisville dug in their heels , I want UConn to dig in their heels on the cause justification like Louisville did if they use it at all. If they don't, then it smells like BS.

So as of now there IS a difference between pearl pitino and Ollie until we get more info.


Neither Tennessee or Louisville hid their reason for cause. UConn hasn't said squat.

 

[KingAG]

You can't say that yet because we don't know the cause reason.

Also Louisville dug in their heels , I want UConn to dig in their heels on the cause justification like Louisville did if they use it at all. If they don't, then it smells like BS.

So as of now there IS a difference between pearl pitino and Ollie until we get more info.


Neither Tennessee or Louisville hid their reason for cause. UConn hasn't said squat.

They can’t say squat. The fact that ppl think AD Dave and the universities lawyers would allow them to fire for cause with no reasoning behind it delusional. If KO was clean then AD Dave and the University would not stick their neck out like this. Most people are arguing severity like it matters. Idc if KO violated the most minute NCAA rule, AD Dave has a right to fire him for cause. Arguing morality and hurt feelings in business is stupid. This isn’t personal it’s business. Both parties signed a contract and both parties are exercising their rights. UConn has a right to fire for cause if indeed some rule was broken(which I guarantee there was) and Ollie would be dumb not to fight it. The moment KO thinks he’ll be exposed he’ll settle. Which would have been AD Dave’s plan all along. Everyone connected to the situation knows KO isn’t clean. It’s not a secret

 

[August_West]

They can’t say squat. The fact that ppl think AD Dave and the universities lawyers would allow them to fire for cause with no reasoning behind it delusional. If KO was clean then AD Dave and the University would not stick their neck out like this. Most people are arguing severity like it matters. Idc if KO violated the most minute NCAA rule, AD Dave has a right to fire him for cause. Arguing morality and hurt feelings in business is stupid. This isn’t personal it’s business. Both parties signed a contract and both parties are exercising their rights. UConn has a right to fire for cause if indeed some rule was broken(which I guarantee there was) and Ollie would be dumb not to fight it. The moment KO thinks he’ll be exposed he’ll settle. Which would have been AD Dave’s plan all along. Everyone connected to the situation knows KO isn’t clean. It’s not a secret

So fine.

We get to save our students 10 million.

 

[KingAG]

So fine.

We get to save our students 10 million.

Not 10 more like 6 million. There will be a settlement

 

[August_West]

Not 10 more like 6 million. There will be a settlement

I don't know why we would give back 4 million of our students money if we have a just reason not to.