Ole Miss takes down Stanford (merged)

[genzhusk]

I thought the Ivies didn't take grad transfers as student athletes. I know their 4 year players aren't allowed to stay for a 5th year as a grad student.

Perhaps Fran is moving on academically and not with basketball. Happens to many of us.

 

[sweetspot]

Jones’ lack of development as a shooter/scorer was so disappointing. How can someone so smart let themselves be so easy to defend? Relatively speaking.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Perhaps Fran is moving on academically and not with basketball. Happens to many of us.

That's what I was assuming. The link saying it wasn't certain if she would be playing basketball next year or not surprised me.

 

[bballnut90]

Jones’ lack of development as a shooter/scorer was so disappointing. How can someone so smart let themselves be so easy to defend? Relatively speaking.

I don't really get it either. She seemed to peak as a sophomore when she tore up the NCAAs and led Stanford to a title. She was mostly solid the last 2 years but her FG% dropped significantly for a player who doesn't take many jump shots, and I also thought her decision making was suspect at times. She made similarly poor decisions vs SC this year, and tonight had several crucial miscues down the stretch. Seems like a great kid and I hope she finds success in the pros but I thought she'd be a better player at this point as a senior.

 

[jonson]

I don't really get it either. She seemed to peak as a sophomore when she tore up the NCAAs and led Stanford to a title. She was mostly solid the last 2 years but her FG% dropped significantly for a player who doesn't take many jump shots, and I also thought her decision making was suspect at times. She made similarly poor decisions vs SC this year, and tonight had several crucial miscues down the stretch. Seems like a great kid and I hope she finds success in the pros but I thought she'd be a better player at this point as a senior.

Maybe this is just me, but I think this is a Stanford issue to some extent. Players arrive, look like gangbusters right away and then sort of disappear for a year or two or three or don't really develop. I think Prechtel falls in the first category, while Jump seems to have been on vacation from her freshman year until this season. Iriafen seems headed in the same direction: eye opening as a freshman but not that this year. On the other hand, Belibi and Jones belong in the second category: good players who haven't seemed to get much better year by year. I think some of this has to do with the way Tara substitutes and the success Stanford has overwhelming most of its opponents with what seems like an endless parade of talented players. That's admirable in many ways, but I don't think it's good for either player development or the overall performance of the team when faced with a tough opponent.

 

[hoophuskee]

I don't really get it either. She seemed to peak as a sophomore when she tore up the NCAAs and led Stanford to a title. She was mostly solid the last 2 years but her FG% dropped significantly for a player who doesn't take many jump shots, and I also thought her decision making was suspect at times. She made similarly poor decisions vs SC this year, and tonight had several crucial miscues down the stretch. Seems like a great kid and I hope she finds success in the pros but I thought she'd be a better player at this point as a senior.

She made some really suspect decisions in this game. Though she also got a bit unlucky too. But yes, she should have had more of a perimeter game.

Another point - there have been comments that Tara made some bad decisions. Well, I get you’re a top seed you should win, but her team did blow a lot of layups.

But imo the real issue with Stanford is what it always has been; Guard play vs athleticism. For this game, the guards were overwhelmed. Even the last few plays - one of them with 27.9 seconds left Jump catches the ball in the corner, Brink has established terrific low post position. All Jump has to do is throw the ball inside. I'm sure the reason why Brink was down in the low post was that there was the option drawn up by Tara to throw it to her rather than throw the ball back to Jones.

That's not Tara's fault. The post was open. The pass could have/should have been made. They won their title two years ago when they had an athletic, capable pg.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Wow. I didn’t see this coming and missed this until I saw the score this Morning.

Congrats to Ole Miss and Coach Yo. She’s taken a ship from the bottom of the ocean and has it sailing again. On paper they aren’t talented but their whole is greater than the sum of their parts.

Which brings me to Stanford. I think something was going on internally with them this season and they apparently never found their groove. On paper this team is up there with SC when looking at talent but it failed to show up. I love Jones as a kid and she’s a good player but her number this year were pretty average. I really thought this team would at least make it to E8 and perhaps even FF as I didn’t think Iowa could stop their weapons but shows what I know.

I’ve always liked Tara and her program is superb but this team vastly underachieved and raises questions about just what went down.

Congrats again to Ole Miss!

 

[hoopsfan22]

Maybe this is just me, but I think this is a Stanford issue to some extent. Players arrive, look like gangbusters right away and then sort of disappear for a year or two or three or don't really develop. I think Prechtel falls in the first category, while Jump seems to have been on vacation from her freshman year until this season. Iriafen seems headed in the same direction: eye opening as a freshman but not that this year. On the other hand, Belibi and Jones belong in the second category: good players who haven't seemed to get much better year by year. I think some of this has to do with the way Tara substitutes and the success Stanford has overwhelming most of its opponents with what seems like an endless parade of talented players. That's admirable in many ways, but I don't think it's good for either player development or the overall performance of the team when faced with a tough opponent.

There's a reason that despite all of the talent that Stanford lands they only have one national championship in the last three decades.

 

[Geew1992]

Is there a point guard coming in next year? They haven’t had one since they won the championship. Not having a point guard is huge

 

[Bone Dog]

As a UConn fan, I can’t help but observe that Geno is now in a pretty good position to surpass Tara in all time wins next year.

But as a realist, I’m not sure this is as dire for Stanford’s program as some here think. From the perspective of the university, I suspect the program still looks like a huge success overall. Talented kids keep coming and doing very well academically, and the team puts up a respectable record every year. And next year will be no different. They’ll be highly ranked from week 1, probably top 4 all season.

 

[Rb335]

In Tara’s defense, the offensive plays were all designed by their associate head coach, the woman with shorter blonde hair. At least that’s what I observed while watching the huddles during the numerous timeouts. They were never able to come close to executing once down the stretch.

Stanfords issue to me all season was their guard play. They found a nice ball handler or two, but as freshman, they failed to have the confidence to shoot or create shots in the big games. And Haley Jones inability to shoot from the perimeter was costly. No space for her to operate last night off the bounce, and also bogged down the offense for Brink.

When they got betts, it was like the boneyard was penciling in Stanford as champions for years to come. But without guards to get bigs the ball, how fearsome can they really be?

 

[BRS24]

I don't really get it either. She seemed to peak as a sophomore when she tore up the NCAAs and led Stanford to a title. She was mostly solid the last 2 years but her FG% dropped significantly for a player who doesn't take many jump shots, and I also thought her decision making was suspect at times. She made similarly poor decisions vs SC this year, and tonight had several crucial miscues down the stretch. Seems like a great kid and I hope she finds success in the pros but I thought she'd be a better player at this point as a senior.

Q for the Stanford fans - if there was a solid point guard and Haley played off ball more than being the point forward, whose game would/could you compare it to? Either UConn or another team? If memory serves, Geno has said in the past that he wished HJ had come to UConn. Wondering if her development would have been different, along with her game.

 

[Centerstream]

There's a reason that despite all of the talent that Stanford lands they only have one national championship in the last three decades.

I'm curious, what is the reason?

 

[southie]

I think that, despite having similar size, the biggest reason Stanford didn’t have the season that South Carolina is having is that they don’t have someone like Zia Cooke on their team

There are a lot of teams who don't have a player like Zia Cooke.

I mean, they have all 15 scholarships allocated, I believe. And, I don't believe they had sustained season-ending injuries to any of their projected starting guards. Seems like most of their guards are freshmen; not sure how that happened. Building your roster is important.

2023-24 Women's Basketball Roster - Stanford University Athletics

The official 2023-24 Women's Basketball Roster for the Stanford University Cardinal

gostanford.com

 

[Txhoopsalot]

Guards, guards, guards. Vic Schaefer has been repeating it every press conference, you win with great guard play. He particularly says that about “this time of year.” Other good/great coaches have emphasized the importance of guards as well. Why is Stanford not getting guard talent anywhere near the front court talent? I certainly have no way of knowing. Too bad Stanford fans can’t really drool over the portal like so many other fan bases!

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Maybe this is just me, but I think this is a Stanford issue to some extent. Players arrive, look like gangbusters right away and then sort of disappear for a year or two or three or don't really develop. I think Prechtel falls in the first category, while Jump seems to have been on vacation from her freshman year until this season. Iriafen seems headed in the same direction: eye opening as a freshman but not that this year. On the other hand, Belibi and Jones belong in the second category: good players who haven't seemed to get much better year by year. I think some of this has to do with the way Tara substitutes and the success Stanford has overwhelming most of its opponents with what seems like an endless parade of talented players. That's admirable in many ways, but I don't think it's good for either player development or the overall performance of the team when faced with a tough opponent.

I get what you are saying but I think there have been players to develop well under Tara. I think of Pohlen who became a great college point guard and scorer during her time. Ogwumeke's (spelling) also developed very well.

Belibi is freakishly athletic but remained a 6'1 post player on a team that was unable to spread the floor due to a lack of shooting. When your 6'5 reserve player is your best 3 point threat that's a problem.

Stanford's biggest issue the past two years was not having a point guard. Jones played it and was admirable but it's not the best use of her skills, which didn't really improve very much for whatever reason. I posted earlier that Jones comes off as a great kid who is the kind everyone should want on their team but her inability to shoot outside proved costly.

I still think something was going on with Stanford internally with chemistry, too many weapons, something that threw them off balance and caused vulnerability at times that seemed strange given their talent and experience.

 

[oldude]

Who am I to question a HOF coach with more wins than anyone? OK, here goes. This is not the first time that Tara made questionable calls in a big game down the stretch in a close game. You need only look at the national semifinal last year vs UConn, when Tara inexplicably subbed little used freshman Irafen in the 4th qtr. Liv promptly earned an easy “and one” over Itafen, who was quickly subbed out of the game.

As many have pointed out, you don’t win consistently at this level without good guard play. This Stanford team had no balance to it. You also don’t win when your entire offense is predicated on pounding the ball inside with every single shot coming from the paint.

Finally, I feel sorry for Haley Jones. She seems like a wonderful young lady who gives everything she has on the court. But she’s not and has never been a guard, hasn’t developed a consistent outside shot and is going to have an uphill battle to make it in the pros.

 

[Bone Dog]

That’s Kate Paye, and like CD she’s the Associate Head Coach.

As for Jones, folks are right to say she can play pg. But that doesn’t mean she should. Her passing isn’t really good enough to use her that way, even if her ability to drive the lane from all angles fits that position. She’s also not quite quick enough to cover the speediest pgs. This leaves you with a positionless scheme not out of choice but out of necessity because of all the defensive switching that will be needed. I’m not sure that’s optimal.

She reminds me a bit of Christyn Williams, though she’s two inches taller. They’re both really strong and can drive the lane to great effect. Jones is bigger and can bang with the bigs a bit, though this isn’t also the best use of her talents.

If you have someone of similar size and strength to guard Jones, she struggles. Most teams don’t have someone like that, and then she seems almost unstoppable. As it happens, Mississippi had Madison Scott and that caused problems. I suspect Aubrey would have been a good matchup for her too. I’m not sure SCar had a good matchup for her.

Will she succeed in the W? I think so, just because of her resourcefulness. But she’s going to need a better perimeter shot, because banging with bigs doesn’t look like a good fit at that level.

 

[cohenzone]

They both looked terrible on offense. I’m not sure Stanford could score without Brink’s size and Jones’ strength. And Miss started half their O with 8 seconds on the clock and then drove to where Brink could easily block them. Stealing the ball is not an offensive plan.

 

[bovwa10]

There are a lot of teams who don't have a player like Zia Cooke.

I mean, they have all 15 scholarships allocated, I believe. And, I don't believe they had sustained season-ending injuries to any of their projected starting guards. Seems like most of their guards are freshmen; not sure how that happened. Building your roster is important.

2023-24 Women's Basketball Roster - Stanford University Athletics

The official 2023-24 Women's Basketball Roster for the Stanford University Cardinal

gostanford.com

What I meant is that Stanford doesn’t have a guard anywhere near the talent of Zia Cooke to complement their bigs

 

[OldSchooler]

I don't know which was more embarrassing -- Stanford's weak offensive output, or the geniuses who seeded them #1. Two players scored 36 of their 49 points. They had everything going for them -- home court, full house, a short hop to the regional in their own time zone, but they blew it. They now hold the dubious record of twice being eliminated as a top seed in the first or second round.

I will miss Haley, one of my all-time favorites. BTW, did anyone see Tara in the handshake line at the end of the game?

 

[Littlemin]

I did not see the game but the box score reads pretty ugly to me. Combined the two teams shot 31% from the floor with 15 assists and 38 turnovers so that must have been the most fantastically stupendous defensive performance of all time by both teams to have been considered a great game.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

That’s Kate Paye, and like CD she’s the Associate Head Coach.

As for Jones, folks are right to say she can play pg. But that doesn’t mean she should. Her passing isn’t really good enough to use her that way, even if her ability to drive the lane from all angles fits that position. She’s also not quite quick enough to cover the speediest pgs. This leaves you with a positionless scheme not out of choice but out of necessity because of all the defensive switching that will be needed. I’m not sure that’s optimal.

She reminds me a bit of Christyn Williams, though she’s two inches taller. They’re both really strong and can drive the lane to great effect. Jones is bigger and can bang with the bigs a bit, though this isn’t also the best use of her talents.

If you have someone of similar size and strength to guard Jones, she struggles. Most teams don’t have someone like that, and then she seems almost unstoppable. As it happens, Mississippi had Madison Scott and that caused problems. I suspect Aubrey would have been a good matchup for her too. I’m not sure SCar had a good matchup for her.

Will she succeed in the W? I think so, just because of her resourcefulness. But she’s going to need a better perimeter shot, because banging with bigs doesn’t look like a good fit at that level.

Good analysis. Jones has a good basketball IQ and is able to make things happen but that doesn't mean she should be a PG. Her outside shooting will need to improve to stick in the W but I think she gets there and hangs around a bit

 

[Shenandoah]