OL Concerns

[Carl Spackler]

Check out the wonderlic scores and/or other "book smart" tests. Offensive linemen are at the top.


http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228.html


In general, says Wonderlic, "The closer you are to the ball, the higher your score."
This assessment roughly corresponds to the averages revealed, according to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, by an NFL personnel man in Paul Zimmerman's "The New Thinking man's Guide to Pro Football," which are:

Offensive tackles: 26
Centers: 25
Quarterbacks: 24
Guards: 23
Tight Ends: 22
Safeties: 19
Middle linebackers: 19
Cornerbacks: 18
Wide receivers: 17
Fullbacks: 17
Halfbacks: 16
The average scores in other professions look like this:
Chemist: 31
Programmer: 29
Newswriter: 26
Sales: 24
Bank teller: 22
Clerical Worker: 21
Security Guard: 17
Warehouse: 15


And the whole point of trying to implement zone blocking schemes in college as compared to the pros is that in college you are still teaching technique to raw kids whose bodies are still maturing whereas in the NFL the baseline is much higher in terms of technique and physicality. And again, all you need is one of the linemen not to be on the same page as everyone else in terms of reads and positioning and the play gets blown up.

No one here is saying it can't be done or that it shouldn't be attempted.

As BL summed up nicely, the risk/reward compared to the Edsall philosophy is much higher.

I think you guys are making more of this than you need to. THe problem you're discussion is what we went through last year, and by the end of the eyar, the blockgin up front was a hell of a lot better than it was against, say Vanderbilt.

These guys have a full year now with the basic concepts. It's not that hard, you just need to know your playbook, and you need to be able to identify the defense, and understand your role in the play call based on what the defense is showing. If I remember correctly, it was Kevin Friend that was talking to a reporter and said soemthign to the effect, that prior to this season (last season now), he had no idea what a 5-0 defensive front was, or how to identify it.

THe problem isn't that it's complex, or extremely hard, to know what such a thing is, and identify it, it's that it takes time to learn how to do it.

THe problem we'ev got now, is that once the starting lineup is set, and I think the #1's are pretty much lined up already ------ what happens if one of them goes down?

I'd much rather have the situation where if somebody goes down, we can just plug in the #2, without having to skip a beat, rather than shift the #1's around.

I'm not sure that's the case yet, and I guarantee, that's what P was talking about, with the freshmen being ready and able to contribute.

 

[businesslawyer]

I think you guys are making more of this than you need to. THe problem you're discussion is what we went through last year, and by the end of the eyar, the blockgin up front was a hell of a lot better than it was against, say Vanderbilt.

These guys have a full year now with the basic concepts. It's not that hard, you just need to know your playbook, and you need to be able to identify the defense, and understand your role in the play call based on what the defense is showing. If I remember correctly, it was Kevin Friend that was talking to a reporter and said soemthign to the effect, that prior to this season (last season now), he had no idea what a 5-0 defensive front was, or how to identify it.

THe problem isn't that it's complex, or extremely hard, to know what such a thing is, and identify it, it's that it takes time to learn how to do it.

THe problem we'ev got now, is that once the starting lineup is set, and I think the #1's are pretty much lined up already ------ what happens if one of them goes down?

I'd much rather have the situation where if somebody goes down, we can just plug in the #2, without having to skip a beat, rather than shift the #1's around.

I'm not sure that's the case yet, and I guarantee, that's what P was talking about, with the freshmen being ready and able to contribute.

If Bennett is healthy, we start the season seven deep. You'd like to be deeper, but I only recall one time since going to the Rent that we needed to play our #8 OL (it was the OT game against Pitt and the young man did a perfectly fine job before transferring out at the end of the year -- I forget his name).

 

[Carl Spackler]

Bennett is healthy, and he is starting as far as I can tell. The question, I"m posing, is if any of the projected starters go down, do the other four remain where they are, or do they shift positions? Is the #6 capable of playing any spot on that line? #7?

 

[Chin Diesel]

Bennett is healthy, and he is starting as far as I can tell. The question, I"m posing, is if any of the projected starters go down, do the other four remain where they are, or do they shift positions? Is the #6 capable of playing any spot on that line? #7?

I'm with you on this one.


It's much more preferable to have another person step in at LT if Bennett goes down than to have Masters move from RG to LT and then have another body step in at RG.

 

[huskysupporter]

If a true frosh o lineman gets significant time for us, it is going to be a long season.

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[businesslawyer]

If Bennett is healthy, we start the season seven deep. You'd like to be deeper, but I only recall one time since going to the Rent that we needed to play our #8 OL (it was the OT game against Pitt and the young man did a perfectly fine job before transferring out at the end of the year -- I forget his name).

Grant Presnell!

 

[Rumrunner]

From Jim Fuller's interview with Pasq published today in the NH Register:

Pasqualoni breaks down positional battles



OL: UConn has to find replacements for Moe Petrus (in camp with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers) and left tackle Mike Ryan. Both starting guards (Adam Masters and Steve Greene) return as does starting right tackle Kevin Friend.

"We have to replace Moe Petrus who was a good center and Mike Ryan, who was a good tackle so the organization of the offensive line (is a priority), Jimmy Bennett coming back from an injury so the organization of the offensive line and defensive line, I have always felt that when you start building, you build up front first."

 

[businesslawyer]

Bennett is healthy, and he is starting as far as I can tell. The question, I"m posing, is if any of the projected starters go down, do the other four remain where they are, or do they shift positions? Is the #6 capable of playing any spot on that line? #7?

I think our depth on the OL is in the interior. Either OT going down will move Masters from Guard to Tackle, and put first Cruz, and then Bullock, into the lineup. If I had to guess, Bullock might be next to play OT after Masters.

 

[huskysupporter]

Grant Presnell!

What an impressive performance by him too. He was about 265 and really held his own that game.

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[metsfan2323]

We had a guy who weighs 165 lbs lead the league in rushing last year and he did it with a less than stellar passing attack, yet some believe there was a drop off in run blocking because of DeLeone's schemes. I'm not buying it. McCombs was not running through people, he had running lanes.

I'm of the opinion that Jordan Todman and Zach Frazer made the 2o10 line look better then its actual performance. Jordan had the ability to make something out of nothing and Zach never took sacks.

Early last season our running backs couldn't block at all, that caused the biggest failure in pass protection. We also had a big drop off going from Sherman to Hinkley.

 

[businesslawyer]

We had a guy who weighs 165 lbs lead the league in rushing last year and he did it with a less than stellar passing attack, yet some believe there was a drop off in run blocking because of DeLeone's schemes. I'm not buying it. McCombs was not running through people, he had running lanes.

I'm of the opinion that Jordan Todman and Zach Frazer made the 2o10 line look better then its actual performance. Jordan had the ability to make something out of nothing and Zach never took sacks.

Those are fair points. But:

1. Our yards per carry was way, way down. Yes, we gained a lot of yards on the ground because we had to because we couldn't throw. But look at the YPC.

2. If you watched, there was far, far too high a percentage of plays last year where you would see one or even two OL standing around not finding someone to block and then just standing there. That was not a sight we were used to in the past because you found the guy closest to you and put a damn helmet on him.

 

[uconndogs]

Those are fair points. But:

1. Our yards per carry was way, way down. Yes, we gained a lot of yards on the ground because we had to because we couldn't throw. But look at the YPC.

2. If you watched, there was far, far too high a percentage of plays last year where you would see one or even two OL standing around not finding someone to block and then just standing there. That was not a sight we were used to in the past because you found the guy closest to you and put a damn helmet on him.

That's exactly my view as well. And it was compounded by the fact the LM never broke tackles. He would find some lanes and get his yards, but there were a lot...a lot of 0-1 yard carries.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Those are fair points. But:

1. Our yards per carry was way, way down. Yes, we gained a lot of yards on the ground because we had to because we couldn't throw. But look at the YPC.

2. If you watched, there was far, far too high a percentage of plays last year where you would see one or even two OL standing around not finding someone to block and then just standing there. That was not a sight we were used to in the past because you found the guy closest to you and put a damn helmet on him.

I will respectfully disagree here. We were an entirely different offensive team in both run blocking and pass blocking in 2010, than we were in 2011. Many of the same players, entirely different way of doing things. Playing OL, was still the fundamental line up and enjoy beating the snot out of somebody for three hours a day, in relative obscurity, with the only time you get noticed if the ref throws a flag......but we did a lot different in 2011.

The most obvious,a nd frequent, standing around and not blocking somebody things happened on pass protections, not on running plays, and it's the biggest reason, why our OL led the nation in sacks allowed last year.

Not so much on running plays, biggest difficulty in running plays, as much as I love Lyle McCombs, he is one of my favorite players all time for what that kid gives up in his body to play the game the way he does...but the decrease in YPC? the ability to take the ball into a hole and regularly turn out 4 yards, instead of two, is a lot more about the RB, and what the offense is doing to the defense in general, than it is the OL run blocking. The holes and lanes were there in running the ball, we - like years past, regularly faced defenses that brought 8 guys in close to the line. When you're runnign into stacked defenses week in and week out, you need a RB that's going to make people miss to gain significant YPC.

I'd like to see what McCombs can do against a defense that's forced to play balanced against run/pass, rather than run heavy. Until any other back can demonstrate the ability to understand the pass protections, and pass protect, McCombs is our guy in the backfield. And that's why I love the kid. By the end of 2011, he's 5'8' 175 in th the long mud spikes and full gear, and he's stadning in there and taking out pass rushers coming full on speed 1-1, that are twice his size, and holding his own.

 

[uconndogs]

Pretty sure you said the exact same thing Biz stated......granted it was four times longer..........

 

[businesslawyer]

Grant Presnell!

I'm now not sure about the first name. But the guy was named Presnell. He had long hair that came out of the back of his helmet.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Pretty sure you said the exact same thing Biz stated......granted it was four times longer..........

Really? no, that's not what I intended at all. I'm saying that the run blocking was fine, and McCombs was the reason that YPC went down, but I tried to do it in a nice way, b/c I really like McCombs, but he's not the same kin dof runner that we've had in the past, which were guys that consistently ran into stacked boxes, but were able to generate significant YPC by either running over the first guy and keeping forward momentum, or making the first guy miss.

THe standing around happened in the pass protections, up front, and McCombs actually did a great job in pass protections.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

I'm now not sure about the first name. But the guy was named Presnell. He had long hair that came out of the back of his helmet.

Andrew, he was a scrapper, your thinking of Grant Preston.
Your post about going 8 deep in OL got me looking at the archives in Uconn football site. Excluding Presnall, the only year we started 8 different guys on the line was '06. usually 6-7

 

[businesslawyer]

Andrew, he was a scrapper, your thinking of Grant Preston.
Your post about going 8 deep in OL got me looking at the archives in Uconn football site. Excluding Presnall, the only year we started 8 different guys on the line was '06. usually 6-7

Andrew sounds right. Thanks.

 

[mattp]

Those are fair points. But:

1. Our yards per carry was way, way down. Yes, we gained a lot of yards on the ground because we had to because we couldn't throw. But look at the YPC.

it's a little unfair to blame a drop in YPC on the Oline when we also went from Todman to McCombs. McCombs was great last year, but he wasn't 2010 Jordan Todman. Todman was great at breaking a tackle and taking an extra 40 yards which has a huge impact on YPC and doesn't really have anything to do with the OLine. there were lanes for McCombs to take, and as the year went on he did a really good job of finding them

 

[PUPPY4]

BTW - as an adjunct to the OL. we've been spoiled a bit at UConn for the past oh - 7 years or so, when it comes to quality fullback play.

I fully expect that FB position to be plowing the way again this year.

That would be a welcome site, and just who do you think will be the "one"?

 

[Carl Spackler]

Looks like Frank and Osiecki are set to go about battle for that job. The guy that brings the angriest and foulest mood and attitude, when hitting the guy with other color jersey standing in the hole, will be the guy.

I can't wait for football.

 

[CL82]

If freshman offensive linemen have the talent to play they should play.

It's unusual at UConn because Edsall wanted to redshirt everyone. But that is NOT an across the board philosophy in college football. Plenty of offensive linemen play as true freshmen. Playing a freshman doesn't mean there is some huge disaster brewing. Some times it just means he won the job.

Randy redshirted freshman because that's the way to build a team from 1AA. You can't keep borrowing from the future for incremental benefits today. JMO.

 

[PUPPY4]

Those are fair points. But:

1. Our yards per carry was way, way down. Yes, we gained a lot of yards on the ground because we had to because we couldn't throw. But look at the YPC.

2. If you watched, there was far, far too high a percentage of plays last year where you would see one or even two OL standing around not finding someone to block and then just standing there. That was not a sight we were used to in the past because you found the guy closest to you and put a damn helmet on him.

Great point BL, if we a olineman being an observer, then the defense has the advantage.
You also have to look at the lead blocks, again advantage defense.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

You assume that the lack of survival in the NFL is related to complexity of the game, rather than, say, the fact that the average size and athleticism of a player is probably significantly greater. Do you have any evidence to support this claim or is it just something you assume is true because you want me to be wrong?

Reading Twitter feeds of NFL players, I have a hard time believing they're a really intellectual bunch. QB's, certainly, can be cerebral, but I have a tough time believing most NFL lineman survive not because they're bigger, stronger, and faster, but because they're able to understand the nuances of blocking a 300-lb. defensive lineman.

Some years ago, one of the magazines, probably "SI," cited a study that concluded that, in general, OL's, as a group, tended to be a team's most intelligent players. Supposedly, the data was provided by sampling players representing both College and Pro levels. QB's and kickers were excluded. As I remember, they chose not to publish a most-to-last list, which shows how much sport's journalism has changed. The first sentence of what was a short paragraph/article went something like " The mythical story of the big, dumb OLineman has been exposed as a falsehood."

 

[FAIRTIDES]

That's exactly my view as well. And it was compounded by the fact the LM never broke tackles. He would find some lanes and get his yards, but there were a lot...a lot of 0-1 yard carries.

With ZF and TL, the pass was not something the defense could totally ignore. Last yr, at times, it looked like there were nine men within 2 yds of the line of scrimmage. That might not explain all of the yds/carry decline, but it has to be given significant consideration. I thought, given the # of times it was outnumbered, that the OL was a credible run blocking unit.