OL Concerns

[B1GEast]

http://courantblogs.com/uconn-football/concerned-uconn-coach-paul-pasqualoni-talks-offensive-line/

Coach P talks about his concern for the O line, I'm a bit confused and concerned myself, coach P indicates that he wants to see how fast the true freshman can contribute. I think maybe the guys we recruited may not be suited to coach P's scheme.

I would think that coach P would want to redshirt the freshman. Maybe I'm reading too much into the article, but if coach P is hoping to get some productivity out of the new lineman, it doesn't speak well for the guys we already have, just my two cents.

 

[huskyblooz]

trying to light a fire

 

[B1GEast]

trying to light a fire

Absolutely not trying to bomb this board, just trying to figure out coach P.

 

[noeynox]

I think blooz, means that P is trying to light a fire under the existing players by talking publicly about the incoming frosh being possible contributors. Id like to know the real size of guys like Hemingway, and Nwokoji, at this point.

 

[Lewconn]

What surprises me at this point, is that it seems that LT Dalton Gifford has slipped some. He was the starting left tackle in the spring game (Bennett and Masters could not play) and he seemed to do a pretty good job that day, but now he is not even listed on the depth chart. It also seems that OC/OG Bryan Paull just can’t take that step forward yet either… Once again walk-on OT Stephen Brown is listed on the 2- deep (at this point anyways), nice job. I met his parents during our tail gate this past spring, real nice people…

 

[pj]

I think his big concern is depth and the need to build depth. The starting players are OK but if one is injured the backups aren't up to snuff. He wants to encourage the freshman to work hard and maybe get onto the second line of the depth chart this fall. He wants a sense of urgency among all the backups. Even if they don't end up playing this year, working hard through the fall will set them up for good seasons next year, when they'll surely be needed.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

More important what the depth chart looks like at at end of month. At this point it serves as a motivational tool. I believe the new zone blocking system allows for more interchangability(if thats a word) so the top 7 maybe 8 regardless of position will constitute the true depth chart.

 

[Carl Spackler]

It's most definitely a shot across the bow to motivate the crew.

The offensive line needs to think in this system. You can't play fast and mean, if you're thinking slow. and you miss assignments, if - in the words of Bill Parcells, we're just too stupid (and in this context, stupid means - not being able to recognize your assignment/job - not an insult - as to being just plain dumb.)

So understanding that, and that I"m not talking derogatory, we can't be stupid on the OL this year. It doesn't matter if a senior lineman is bigger, faster, more experienced now, if a freshmen can come in and not play stupid, then that freshmen will push for a job.

Each OL needs to be constantly pushing each other's ability to the limit in practices, in meetings, especialy in film study translating to action on the practice fields......being able to identify the defensive front, identify their role in the blocking schemes, and communicate up and down the line, so hat everyboy gets the hat on somebody and the QB has the time he needs for his footwork and reads and/or the runner has the lanes/hole they need.

THat OL needs to gel, and they need to do it by pushing each other to be the best they can.

I love how coach P defines tough.

Tough, is being the best you can be, all the time. Playing to the very best of your ability, all the time, consistently.

That translates to any activity in life. Tough. Doing the best you possibly can, all the time, at everything.

We'll need that from the OL, and the incoming freshmen, most certainly are expected to help get there.

I cn't wait for football. BTW.

 

[Palatine]

If freshman offensive linemen have the talent to play they should play.

It's unusual at UConn because Edsall wanted to redshirt everyone. But that is NOT an across the board philosophy in college football. Plenty of offensive linemen play as true freshmen. Playing a freshman doesn't mean there is some huge disaster brewing. Some times it just means he won the job.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

If freshman offensive linemen have the talent to play they should play.

It's unusual at UConn because Edsall wanted to redshirt everyone. But that is NOT an across the board philosophy in college football. Plenty of offensive linemen play as true freshmen. Playing a freshman doesn't mean there is some huge disaster brewing. Some times it just means he won the job.

Dont think thats the case at all, just the opposite, they rarely make the two-deep as first year players unless under circumstances like with USC or being a very special player.
scroll through the teams
http://auburn.rivals.com/cdepthtext.asp?Year=2007&Team=ALABAMA

 

[Chin Diesel]

My concern this year for the OLine schemes is the same as last season.

DeLeone has a ton of experience and has worked at the highest level.

It's one thing to teach zone blocking to NFL'ers and expect them to have the intelligence, experience and ability to execute those plans- as a unit.

College linemen are a level well-below most NFL linemen. All you need is four linemen correctly blocking and one guy to blow an assignment and the play gets blown up.

It could be that the schemes are above their abilities.

I am taking a wait and see approach with the lines progression.

 

[pj]

My concern this year for the OLine schemes is the same as last season.

DeLeone has a ton of experience and has worked at the highest level.

It's one thing to teach zone blocking to NFL'ers and expect them to have the intelligence, experience and ability to execute those plans- as a unit.

College linemen are a level well-below most NFL linemen. All you need is four linemen correctly blocking and one guy to blow an assignment and the play gets blown up.

It could be that the schemes are above their abilities.

I am taking a wait and see approach with the lines progression.

This is all true ... but if they can handle the schemes, it should really help the offense, and it will also help the linemen get into the NFL. Nothing NFL GMs like better than O-linemen who already have a few years of NFL coaching under their belts, and have proven they can play NFL style. In turn, getting players into the NFL will help recruiting.

For the long-term good of the program, it's important that this year's line succeed. I hope they put in the film study and off-season work they needed. I think in year 1 they didn't realize how hard it was, and didn't prepare well enough. I think they'll be prepared this year.

 

[uconndogs]

My concern this year for the OLine schemes is the same as last season.

DeLeone has a ton of experience and has worked at the highest level.

It's one thing to teach zone blocking to NFL'ers and expect them to have the intelligence, experience and ability to execute those plans- as a unit.

College linemen are a level well-below most NFL linemen. All you need is four linemen correctly blocking and one guy to blow an assignment and the play gets blown up.

It could be that the schemes are above their abilities.

I am taking a wait and see approach with the lines progression.

Very good post and I agree. My concern is that this new coaching staff is taking the offense to a level of complexity that is unrealistic for the college game. I'm no expert and I really hope that my perception is wrong.

As for depth this season with this unit, I only see it as precarious. Without Bennett and Masters we end up with some young and smaller guys at the tackles which could be very problematic. I am highly doubtful that true frosh would be physically ready and the fact the Paul N, and Hemmingway remain under 270 (at least according to what has been released) makes me question whether they will ever be ready to play at this level.

 

[ktuck911]

I think blooz, means that P is trying to light a fire under the existing players by talking publicly about the incoming frosh being possible contributors. Id like to know the real size of guys like Hemingway, and Nwokoji, at this point.

+1 on this comment... especially on Hemingway and Nwokoji.. If they still way less than 280lbs (minimum) I'd be concerned...

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

Very good post and I agree. My concern is that this new coaching staff is taking the offense to a level of complexity that is unrealistic for the college game. I'm no expert and I really hope that my perception is wrong.

I'm not sure I believe this. Just look at basketball. You have all of these complicated defenses like matchup zone and then in the NBA they barely even play defense. I gotta believe our college students can learn blocking schemes.

 

[businesslawyer]

My concern this year for the OLine schemes is the same as last season.

DeLeone has a ton of experience and has worked at the highest level.

It's one thing to teach zone blocking to NFL'ers and expect them to have the intelligence, experience and ability to execute those plans- as a unit.

College linemen are a level well-below most NFL linemen. All you need is four linemen correctly blocking and one guy to blow an assignment and the play gets blown up.

It could be that the schemes are above their abilities.

I am taking a wait and see approach with the lines progression.

This is mine too. It's the Charlie Weis factor. The fact that you can teach something complicated to adults in 40 hours a week, with lots of time allowed over offseasons, does not mean you can teach the same thing successfully to young adults with limited in season practice time and ever more limited contacts out of season. I am not saying that he can't. I'm not giving up on this because I think it held us back last season (which I think it did). But we now have to see the results.

Last year, I think our OL clearly underperformed its talent level. This year's crew, is a little less talented (and a lot less deep), but it's talented enough that if they make DeLeone's way work, we can get better OL performance. The Edsall/Foley schemes were very easy, and brought us good, consistent play year to year. I don't doubt that DeLeone's way can work as well, and maybe have a higher upside. But it has to not just work in theory -- it has to work in practice. This year will tell the story.

Weis's way, obviously, never worked at Notre Dame.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I'm not sure I believe this. Just look at basketball. You have all of these complicated defenses like matchup zone and then in the NBA they barely even play defense. I gotta believe our college students can learn blocking schemes.

Maybe your most ignorant post ever (and that's saying a lot). I'm not going to drag this thread off-line. But to suggest that the NBA is a step down in complexity on offense and defense and that defense isn't played as hard in the NBA as it is in college, is stupid.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

Maybe your most ignorant post ever (and that's saying a lot). I'm not going to drag this thread off-line. But to suggest that the NBA is a step down in complexity on offense and defense and that defense isn't played as hard in the NBA as it is in college, is stupid.

Hey, thanks pal. Always nice 'n respectful.

I do believe college basketball schemes are more complicated, if only because they have more time to run plays and they have less restrictions on the kinds of zones they can run. In the NBA, they have very specific rules about what kind of zones they're even allowed to play.

Obviously it's easier for a full-time employee than a full-time student, but a lot of these kids are gonna put 4-5 years into a program, and I gotta believe that they are capable of learning complex blocking schemes. I mean, this is the same institution where people learn to become pharmacists and engineers. Give them some credit.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Hey, thanks pal. Always nice 'n respectful.

I do believe college basketball schemes are more complicated, if only because they have more time to run plays and they have less restrictions on the kinds of zones they can run. In the NBA, they have very specific rules about what kind of zones they're even allowed to play.

Obviously it's easier for a full-time employee than a full-time student, but a lot of these kids are gonna put 4-5 years into a program, and I gotta believe that they are capable of learning complex blocking schemes. I mean, this is the same institution where people learn to become pharmacists and engineers. Give them some credit.

Back on topic. Nice.

I'm giving them all the credit in the world, but be realistic. Less than half of you All-American linemen ever make it to a second contract in the NFL. And that's a long-term, fairly consistent number. And it's not just linemen. DB's, RB's, QB's, DE's, etc. etc. all have trouble adjusting to the complexities of the NFL.


I won't doubt effort or intelligence of the players in college. But it's not any different than the corporate world. You don't take a magna cum laude business graduate and make him a project manager right out of college.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Look guys, it's not rocket science. You need to be able to count to six, and you need to be well studied in the film room, and be able to pick out your keys and you need to know your playbook.

It's just night and day from teh zone-read option Chip Kelly offense that we were runnign up front, and the OL needs to be working differently, in everything from their stances to how they go about identifying a defense and getting their assignments right. Last year, via direct quote from one of our lineman, our guys were not able to identify and lable a defensive front. THey didn't have to prior to meeting George Deleone. THey will need to in the NFL.

I fully expect the OL to be a whole lot better than last year. THe key to the OL, is we're still lacking interchangeable depth. I hope the Jimmy Bennett can get to the finish line for the first time in his career this year.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

I'm giving them all the credit in the world, but be realistic. Less than half of you All-American linemen ever make it to a second contract in the NFL. And that's a long-term, fairly consistent number. And it's not just linemen. DB's, RB's, QB's, DE's, etc. etc. all have trouble adjusting to the complexities of the NFL.

You assume that the lack of survival in the NFL is related to complexity of the game, rather than, say, the fact that the average size and athleticism of a player is probably significantly greater. Do you have any evidence to support this claim or is it just something you assume is true because you want me to be wrong?

Reading Twitter feeds of NFL players, I have a hard time believing they're a really intellectual bunch. QB's, certainly, can be cerebral, but I have a tough time believing most NFL lineman survive not because they're bigger, stronger, and faster, but because they're able to understand the nuances of blocking a 300-lb. defensive lineman.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Dont think thats the case at all, just the opposite, they rarely make the two-deep as first year players unless under circumstances like with USC or being a very special player.
scroll through the teams
http://auburn.rivals.com/cdepthtext.asp?Year=2007&Team=ALABAMA

I agree. Playing a rookie offensive lineman, as a desireable thing? Very rare.

 

[Carl Spackler]

You assume that the lack of survival in the NFL is related to complexity of the game, rather than, say, the fact that the average size and athleticism of a player is probably significantly greater. Do you have any evidence to support this claim or is it just something you assume is true because you want me to be wrong?

Reading Twitter feeds of NFL players, I have a hard time believing they're a really intellectual bunch. QB's, certainly, can be cerebral, but I have a tough time believing most NFL lineman survive not because they're bigger, stronger, and faster, but because they're able to understand the nuances of blocking a 300-lb. defensive lineman.

The adjustment to teh speed and size of the NFL is somethign that takes a little while. I remember talking to Deon Anderson a while back. As much as everybody around him knew he had what it took to play (too bad that he left off field issues creep up - anyhoo) he had what it took. He said that he didn't feel like he belonged until he got into a game vs. Chicago, and was in the huddle, got the play call, lined up and right there in hole, was Brian Uhrlacher. He said...."alright, here we go.". He hit the hole, made the big time collision and block with Uhrlacher, and knocked Uhrlacher out of the play. Every player will have a moment like that, when they go from feeling like they're not sure, to when they know they belong.

Happens every level of football. Players will always have that come to Jesus moment, where they're sure they belong on the field.

As for the complexity of the game, it's not that complex. It's blocking and tackling, and knowing your playbook and your system. THe difficulty that most offensive lineman, and offensive players have in general now, in transitioning from college to NFL, is product of the growing gap between the types of offensive systems being run in colleges, vs. the predominant type of offensive systems in the NFL. NFL players, simply can't go through an entire NFL season, with a zone-read-option based type offensive system. Quarterbacks, are too high value a commodity. THe pro-style offenses, many offensive players coming out of college, and are exposed to it the first time in the NFL.

That won't be the case in teh future for players coming out of UConn on offense.

The number of college programs in the country, that are going with pro-set style concepts on offense as a base offense are limited, and the NFL looks at them closely, and we are one now.

It will definitely help recruiting on offense in the future.

 

[Chin Diesel]

You assume that the lack of survival in the NFL is related to complexity of the game, rather than, say, the fact that the average size and athleticism of a player is probably significantly greater. Do you have any evidence to support this claim or is it just something you assume is true because you want me to be wrong?

Reading Twitter feeds of NFL players, I have a hard time believing they're a really intellectual bunch. QB's, certainly, can be cerebral, but I have a tough time believing most NFL lineman survive not because they're bigger, stronger, and faster, but because they're able to understand the nuances of blocking a 300-lb. defensive lineman.

Check out the wonderlic scores and/or other "book smart" tests. Offensive linemen are at the top.


http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228.html


In general, says Wonderlic, "The closer you are to the ball, the higher your score."
This assessment roughly corresponds to the averages revealed, according to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, by an NFL personnel man in Paul Zimmerman's "The New Thinking man's Guide to Pro Football," which are:

Offensive tackles: 26
Centers: 25
Quarterbacks: 24
Guards: 23
Tight Ends: 22
Safeties: 19
Middle linebackers: 19
Cornerbacks: 18
Wide receivers: 17
Fullbacks: 17
Halfbacks: 16
The average scores in other professions look like this:
Chemist: 31
Programmer: 29
Newswriter: 26
Sales: 24
Bank teller: 22
Clerical Worker: 21
Security Guard: 17
Warehouse: 15


And the whole point of trying to implement zone blocking schemes in college as compared to the pros is that in college you are still teaching technique to raw kids whose bodies are still maturing whereas in the NFL the baseline is much higher in terms of technique and physicality. And again, all you need is one of the linemen not to be on the same page as everyone else in terms of reads and positioning and the play gets blown up.

No one here is saying it can't be done or that it shouldn't be attempted.

As BL summed up nicely, the risk/reward compared to the Edsall philosophy is much higher.

 

[Carl Spackler]

BTW - as an adjunct to the OL. we've been spoiled a bit at UConn for the past oh - 7 years or so, when it comes to quality fullback play.

I fully expect that FB position to be plowing the way again this year.