Ok...they better get Uconn this year!

[hoophuskee]

My point is that although GS did not get the most baskets, they got the right baskets - three-pointers - and lots of them.

That is why Golden State won and why (yes, I do realize) Cleveland lost.

Yet another indication of the continuing change in basketball.

Ooops okay- I understand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sluconn Husky]

2-- I don't agree at all with your statement with Gabby. Again I'll ask when Tuck comes out of the game and Gabby usually replaced her, who was defending inside? Was it KLS or Gabby? It HAD TO BE one of them. When games "counted" at that moment - not 30-50 point leads -- but the moment Tuck was pulled- one of the two WAS guarding inside.

You seem to be saying/assuming that whoever Tuck guarded when she was in the game was an "inside" player. I don't think that's the case. Again, how many legit inside threats are there? A few of the better teams have some, but otherwise....It isn't like Tuck didn't defend on the perimeter as well. Most of UConn's players guard multiple sections of the floor. Butler couldn't do that. She's mostly a stationary, post defender.

And he may have to use zone against teams with talented inside presences. I don't think he will want to if at all avoidable though.

I will eventually go back and watch some of the games to see defensive assignments. But the best big players were left for Tuck and Stewart. This is where I still think getting good minutes out of Butler will be key.

 

[hoophuskee]

You seem to be saying/assuming that whoever Tuck guarded when she was in the game was an "inside" player. I don't think that's the case. Again, how many legit inside threats are there? A few of the better teams have some, but otherwise....It isn't like Tuck didn't defend on the perimeter as well. Most of UConn's players guard multiple sections of the floor. Butler couldn't do that. She's mostly a stationary, post defender.

And he may have to use zone against teams with talented inside presences. I don't think he will want to if at all avoidable though.

I will eventually go back and watch some of the games to see defensive assignments. But the best big players were left for Tuck and Stewart. This is where I still think getting good minutes out of Butler will be key.

No- that's not what I said. You said the following pertaining to defense - that is what I replied to:

Gabby basically plays perimeter defense now. I don't see KLS playing inside defense much either . . .

As I have said -- then when Tuck comes out who defends on the inside? It HAS to be either Gabby or KLS. My reply had nothing to do with "an inside player." An inside player is someone like Coates.

When you speak of inside threats-- that is a totally different conversation than what I replied to your post.

We need to level-set. I don't agree with the italics above in which you said about defense. Gabby or KLS had to play quite a bit of defense on the inside. Which do oyu think it was? Otherwise who was the player defending the other big player on the opposing team once Tuck was substituted?

I agree she also defended on the perimeter- but it's not like teams only have one inside player. Tuck had to defend on the inside too. So Gabby was not "basically playing perimeter defense."

 

[Sluconn Husky]

No- that's not what I said. You said the following pertaining to defense - that is what I replied to:

Gabby basically plays perimeter defense now. I don't see KLS playing inside defense much either . . .

As I have said -- then when Tuck comes out who defends on the inside? It HAS to be either Gabby or KLS. My reply had nothing to do with "an inside player." An inside player is someone like Coates.

When you speak of inside threats-- that is a totally different conversation than what I replied to your post.

We need to level-set. I don't agree with the italics above in which you said about defense. Gabby or KLS had to play quite a bit of defense on the inside. Which do oyu think it was? Otherwise who was the player defending the other big player on the opposing team once Tuck was substituted?

I agree she also defended on the perimeter- but it's not like teams only have one inside player. Tuck had to defend on the inside too. So Gabby was not "basically playing perimeter defense."

Think we're talking past each other. Why do you assume the player Tuck generally defends is a "big" player? Tuck defended all over the place as the UConn defense is often moving parts, again with the exception of a less mobile big like Butler. The few times UConn played legit post players (Maryland, SC, Oregon State, Ohio State,) they were guarded by Stewart and/or Tuck. Gabby is primarily a perimeter defender--I don't know how this can be argued. It's why she was specifically put on Courtney Williams multiple times the previous two years. Even starting in a 3-guard lineup against Ohio State she defended the perimeter. That doesn't mean she NEVER guards her "man" inside when players move around. But I highly doubt UConn will take her from her strength to have her defend much larger, quality posts in the paint.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

With the loss of the BIG 3, Geno will have to get creative on both offense & defense to get the most out of the 2016-2017 version of the Huskies!
That being said there still is a lot of talent on the roster to go to the Final 4!
I cannot look at this roster of Nurse, KLS, Gabby, Collier, Saniya, Butler, Ekmark, Crystal Dangerfield, Irwin & Bent and not see a potent defensive unit or players capable of averaging 70 to 75 points a night. Which will be among the highest in Div. I!
I have said several times before that I see Saniya, Butler & Ekmark going to work as hard as they have ever worked to get where they can make huge contributions to this team and prove their high rankings previously were justified in their recruitment to UCONN or in Butler's case her great freshman showing at Georgetown in the BE!
All they need is to stay healthy and they'll go far into the NCAA's!

 

[hoophuskee]

Think we're talking past each other. Why do you assume the player Tuck generally defends is a "big" player? Tuck defended all over the place as the UConn defense is often moving parts, again with the exception of a less mobile big like Butler. The few times UConn played legit post players (Maryland, SC, Oregon State, Ohio State,) they were guarded by Stewart and/or Tuck. Gabby is primarily a perimeter defender--I don't know how this can be argued. It's why she was specifically put on Courtney Williams multiple times the previous two years. Even starting in a 3-guard lineup against Ohio State she defended the perimeter. That doesn't mean she NEVER guards her "man" inside when players move around. But I highly doubt UConn will take her from her strength to have her defend much larger, quality posts in the paint.

Let's find out the stretch of game when Tuck wasn't playing over 32 minutes and we'll find Gabby guarding the inside or KLS as 1st options and imo it was rare it was KLS - which you said they don't do often. Or secondly if the defense was as interchangeable as you say then why would you diminish Gabby or KLS's interchangeability too? It's another point of you can't have it both ways. If you're saying UCONN's defense was so flexible - then it would mean EVERY player, right? Third - when you mention "Why do you assume the player Tuck generally defends is a "big" player? - I know for a fact Tuck guarded Jones from MD and Coates from USC. Here is play by play (link below) of UCONN vs USC-- at the 5:48 mark 26-13 in 1st half Tuck is subbed out. Coates and Wilson are in. Who is guarding the post other than Stewie before Wilson gets hurt? Once Tuck goes out- who else do you think in 1st half defended the post for teams that tried to have two posts or tried to crash the boards?

http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2015-2016/020816.html

In one sentence your saying "how can I assume Tuck generally defends bigs then a few sentences later your acknowledging that she did defend against teams with legit post players. What your suggesting/implying imo is way off base - that teams just played 1-4 sets and never tried for inside play or offensive rebound other than 1 player? And how about the times Gabby was playing on the inside on offense - she wasn't really being defended by bigger players that wouldn't even try to post the smaller Gabby? My point is Gabby was going at inside baskets. You don't think the team tried to take advantage of her at the other end if one of the two of Tuck or Stewie was out at the other end?

Yes you are right about Ohio State but Ohio State isn't the norm. The point is - most teams don't give up completely from trying to do something inside. When Tuck was subbed - or even Stewie - it doesn't matter that Gabby is superior defending the perimeter BECASUE she was also a superior rebounder and low post defender vs Nurse/KLS and Collier. Your thinking seems to suggest/ or imply opposing teams would only try the inside with one player - and not even try for an example a simple cross pick in order to get their big free vs Stewie or Tuck (if one was out).

You've referenced two teams USF and Ohio State. Teams with holes in their middle but prolific scoring guards. Yes Gabby would defend. But many teams need to defend UCONN's size with Stewie and Tuck. They needed some big players. If a team has two players either a combo center/forwards that are tall and have some power and some inside moves, and Geno takes out Tuck or Stewie for a rest, who do you think is next in line to guard the bigger players? It wasn't Butler. All you have to do is look at the USC game when Tuck came out-- who was defending inside along with Stewie? It was Gabby.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

If you're saying UCONN's defense was so flexible - then it would mean EVERY player, right? Third - when you mention "Why do you assume the player Tuck generally defends is a "big" player? - I know for a fact Tuck guarded Jones from MD and Coates from USC.

Tuck like Stewart defended the relatively few high quality posts they faced. But otherwise, Tuck would guard a myriad of players, some big, some smaller. The exception to the rule is when UConn faced a Jones or Coates. And I'm saying that putting the much smaller, leaner, more perimeter-oriented Gabby Williams in those positions is not optimal or the best use of her skills.

If a team has two players either a combo center/forwards that are tall and have some power and some inside moves, and Geno takes out Tuck or Stewie for a rest, who do you think is next in line to guard the bigger players? It wasn't Butler.

It wasn't Butler because Butler was in no way ready to be on the floor against high quality competition for any stretch of time last year. Which goes to my point in that minus Stewart and Tuck it would be quite helpful if Butler would take the next step and be able to provide those minutes.

All you have to do is look at the USC game when Tuck came out-- who was defending inside along with Stewie? It was Gabby.

For one possession, yes, Gabby guarded Wilson out of necessity due to Tuck's foul trouble. Otherwise they had her trying to defend Omovbioh. When Gabby, Tuck, and Stewart were out there together Gabby guarded Mitchell. Just because she was the best of limited options does not mean it's best for her to play interior post defense. Could she do it better than KLS if needed? Sure, but perimeter defense is where her strength lies and where Geno will want her unless desperate.

 

[hoophuskee]

Tuck like Stewart defended the relatively few high quality posts they faced. But otherwise, Tuck would guard a myriad of players, some big, some smaller. The exception to the rule is when UConn faced a Jones or Coates. And I'm saying that putting the much smaller, leaner, more perimeter-oriented Gabby Williams in those positions is not optimal or the best use of her skills.




It wasn't Butler because Butler was in no way ready to be on the floor against high quality competition for any stretch of time last year. Which goes to my point in that minus Stewart and Tuck it would be quite helpful if Butler would take the next step and be able to provide those minutes.




For one possession, yes, Gabby guarded Wilson out of necessity due to Tuck's foul trouble. Otherwise they had her trying to defend Omovbioh. When Gabby, Tuck, and Stewart were out there together Gabby guarded Mitchell. Just because she was the best of limited options does not mean it's best for her to play interior post defense. Could she do it better than KLS if needed? Sure, but perimeter defense is where her strength lies and where Geno will want her unless desperate.

1-- Yes -- but reagarding your recent comment of "it's not the best use of her individual skills" -- but that's not what you first said -- when you said-- "Gabby basically plays perimeter defense now. I don't see KLS playing inside defense much either . . ."

2-- Sometimes a team doesn't always use the best use of a player's individual skills. They are forced to use what they have, correct? In this case when Tuck gets pulled, a team already had to defend her with size didn't they? At the very least -if Stewart was going inside- you think most teams would want to play with pf's at 5'10 to help out? And once Gabby replaced Tuck don't you think they want to try to take advantage of the smaller Gabby? Which means they must have some scholarship player with some inside skills you don't think then they are going to take advantage of the smaller Gabby? WHy would an opposing team deliberately allow Gabby to play to her strength? On the flip side, isn't Gabby a abtter interior defender than KLS and Collier? SO the question that is more appropriate to be asked is why wouldn't UCONN/Geno play Gabby at the best position to help the team? You basically already have 4/5 defenders on the perimeter in MoJeff/Nurse/KLS and a few games Chong did well- certainly she palyed more important minutes than Butler. As did Collier who came on at the end. I will acknowledge at times COllier would defend a bit more inside that Gabby but sometimes imo not. Collier did have a big issue with strength.

3-- Regarding Butler - sure I agree- "it would e quite helpful" - but that isn't what you 1st said. I'm not arguing that it wouldn't be "helpful" if Butler can play well. I'm arguing with your belief that primarily Gabby didn't defend much at all on the inside as if the other team is stupid not going to try to take advantage of a 5'10 pf. It's not all about what UCONN wants. Other teams will try to take advantage of UCONN too. Why would another team deliberately want to paly to UCONN's strengths?

4-- As far as Omovbioh-- wasn;'t she an inside player? I'm pretty sure she is. And she was 6-6 from the floor vs UCONN. N 3's taken. She had 8 rebounds. I'm near certain she was an inside player. So your attempt to downplay Wilson only being defending for one minute isn't really relevant to our conversation, is it? We're talking about Gabby having to defend on the inside. And she was the best alternative once Tuck or Steiw went out of the game, wasn't she?

5-- IMO you are making a mistake at looking at this one way. Maya Moore in her senior year at times was forced to defend opposing centers. That's wasn't her strength anymore than it's Gabby's strength to defend on the inside. But once Tuck or Stewie went out- - why would an opposing team allow UCONN to get away with playing a 5'10 pf? AT least to challenge her on the glass? And why wouldn't UCONN put in Gabby to defend the other tall player whether it be the smaller of the 2 center or pf?

 

[CocoHusky]

2-- I don't agree at all with your statement with Gabby. Again I'll ask when Tuck comes out of the game and Gabby usually replaced her, who was defending inside? Was it KLS or Gabby? It HAD TO BE one of them. When games "counted" at that moment - not 30-50 point leads -- but the moment Tuck was pulled- one of the two WAS guarding inside.

There is no one "automatically assigned" to defend inside unless the opposing team has a post player(s) required to be guarded in the post. When KLS, Gabby, Collier come into the game for Morgan Stewie was usually assigned to guard the other teams best post threat. KLS, Gabby, Collier are all far better perimeter defender than post defenders and all three struggle with size and strength in the post-example is SC game. Gabby is the best post defender of the three, but the concern is making any of the three a fulltime post defender is not compatible with NC aspirations.[/QUOTE]

 

[Kibitzer]

Let me chime in about the UConn team defense.

Geno prefers man-to-an "D" with lots of switching to stifle pick-and-rolls, especially out on the perimeter.

He had the benefit of smart and versatile players, continuously in communication with one another, who could implement his system and frustrate opponents.

His full court press is best described as a 2-2-1 zone. In half court either a 2-3 or 1-2-2.

Lou normally guarded "wing" counterpart or out front in zone "D."

When Nat entered the lineup, her limited mobility usually made zone preferable.

The ultimate aim is always to limit quality shots, especially for best shooters.

N.B. Note use of words like "usually" and "normally." Nothing set in stone.​

 

[bags27]

I hesitate to engage here, because I haven't played in 40 years and have never coached, but my sense is that underneath, even in man-to-man, it's a helping defense. Once the ball is down low, there should be weak side doubling help, forcing the player with the ball to make a pass in a crowd. There's one player facing up against the post, but a wing cheating a bit, especially when the ball goes down low--unless the playing guarding the post is a dominant defender, like Kiah or Stef, but maybe even then, since doubling underneath to force a pass in a crowd is a natural play.

 

[CocoHusky]

Let me chime in about the UConn team defense.

Geno prefers man-to-an "D" with lots of switching to stifle pick-and-rolls, especially out on the perimeter.

He had the benefit of smart and versatile players, continuously in communication with one another, who could implement his system and frustrate opponents.

His full court press is best described as a 2-2-1 zone. In half court either a 2-3 or 1-2-2.

Lou normally guarded "wing" counterpart or out front in zone "D."

When Nat entered the lineup, her limited mobility usually made zone preferable.

The ultimate aim is always to limit quality shots, especially for best shooters.

N.B. Note use of words like "usually" and "normally." Nothing set in stone.​

Exactly! Limit quality shots (from perimeter & post) and rebound that is the proven UCONN formula. If Natalie cannot do both of those things Geno will find someone who will. Size matters but so does quickness and reaction time to the ball. Size is also a rat hole, because IMO there is only 1 team in WCBB capable of overwhelming UCONN with size in the post and that is South Carolina. Baylor has a Two-time AA starter playing in the post at 5'11". ND has one post player of significance in Turner.

 

[Mdoggie]

Unleash the Chong!

Told ya'll.

 

[easttexastrash]

Exactly! Limit quality shots (from perimeter & post) and rebound that is the proven UCONN formula. If Natalie cannot do both of those things Geno will find someone who will. Size matters but so does quickness and reaction time to the ball. Size is also a rat hole, because IMO there is only 1 team in WCBB capable of overwhelming UCONN with size in the post and that is South Carolina. Baylor has a Two-time AA starter playing in the post at 5'11". ND has one post player of significance in Turner.

Interesting that you discuss size without mentioning any of the returning Baylor bigs, Brown (6-7), Cave (6-3) and Mompremier (6-4), plus the addition Cox (6-4). Kim didn't go to the bench much against UCLA because the group she had on the floor was kicking UCLA's butt and she didn't want to disrupt the flow of the game. But don't take that as an indication thAt she will not use the other post players. Don't underestimate the talent of these four players when you discuss being overwhelmed by size.

 

[HopJim]

Interesting that you discuss size without mentioning any of the returning Baylor bigs, Brown (6-7), Cave (6-3) and Mompremier (6-4), plus the addition Cox (6-4). Kim didn't go to the bench much against UCLA because the group she had on the floor was kicking UCLA's butt and she didn't want to disrupt the flow of the game. But don't take that as an indication thAt she will not use the other post players. Don't underestimate the talent of these four players when you discuss being overwhelmed by size.

Good comments! I never underestimate Geno and his creative defenses, but.....anyone who has watched Baylor has seen that quick, swarming defenses often don't matter for offensive rebounds and when the 6'5"+ Big has the ball underneath. Looking forward to the game.

 

[CocoHusky]

Interesting that you discuss size without mentioning any of the returning Baylor bigs, Brown (6-7), Cave (6-3) and Mompremier (6-4), plus the addition Cox (6-4). Kim didn't go to the bench much against UCLA because the group she had on the floor was kicking UCLA's butt and she didn't want to disrupt the flow of the game. But don't take that as an indication thAt she will not use the other post players. Don't underestimate the talent of these four players when you discuss being overwhelmed by size.

I don't think UCONN will be overwhelmed by Baylor's size, a case in point was the FSU game. The leading rebounder in the game was the shortest player on either team-Brown with 10 Rebounds. This is still the Women's game where an awful lot of rebounds are floor boards. Quickness & positioning can compensate for lack of height. UCONN must and will compensate. On Baylor last year your 5'11" player ( Davis) collected only 3 less boards on the season than your 6'4" post starter Mompremier.

 

[easttexastrash]

I don't think UCONN will be overwhelmed by Baylor's size, a case in point was the FSU game. The leading rebounder in the game was the shortest player on either team-Brown with 10 Rebounds. This is still the Women's game where an awful lot of rebounds are floor boards. Quickness & positioning can compensate for lack of height. UCONN must and will compensate. On Baylor last year your 5'11" player ( Davis) collected only 3 less boards on the season than your 6'4" post starter Mompremier.

You may be right. I guess we will know if Baylor's size bothers UCONN in about 24 hours and then we won't have to speak in hypotheticals anymore.

 

[easttexastrash]

I don't think UCONN will be overwhelmed by Baylor's size, a case in point was the FSU game. The leading rebounder in the game was the shortest player on either team-Brown with 10 Rebounds. This is still the Women's game where an awful lot of rebounds are floor boards. Quickness & positioning can compensate for lack of height. UCONN must and will compensate. On Baylor last year your 5'11" player ( Davis) collected only 3 less boards on the season than your 6'4" post starter Mompremier.

Did you bother to compare minutes played or just cherry pick a stat to support your argument. Nina Davis played 33 minutes per game and Beatrice averaged 15.6 minutes per game; she split time with Kalani Brown. So had Mompremier averaged the same number of minutes per game she would have doubled Davis in rebounds.

Come on, Coco. I expect better from you.

 

[CocoHusky]

Did you bother to compare minutes played or just cherry pick a stat to support your argument. Nina Davis played 33 minutes per game and Beatrice averaged 15.6 minutes per game; she split time with Kalani Brown. So had Mompremier averaged the same number of minutes per game she would have doubled Davis in rebounds. Come on, Coco. I expect better from you.

I didn't think I could do muck better than picking a stat to support my argument.

 

[ucbart]

I don't think UCONN will be overwhelmed by Baylor's size, a case in point was the FSU game. The leading rebounder in the game was the shortest player on either team-Brown with 10 Rebounds. This is still the Women's game where an awful lot of rebounds are floor boards. Quickness & positioning can compensate for lack of height. UCONN must and will compensate. On Baylor last year your 5'11" player ( Davis) collected only 3 less boards on the season than your 6'4" post starter Mompremier.

Baylor's size is going to overwhelm us. We couldn't rebound against Florida State in the first half. Baylor's line up is huge! The only was this stays close, IMO, is if Baylor gets Gampel jitters and we hit about 12 three's. This isn't a sky is falling post, but it's what I think. We just don't have the height in the post for us to be successful in the low block, offensively or defensively. I've said all along that defensively is where we miss the Big 3 the most, not on offense. This will be glaring in this game, I fear. But hey, it's why you play the games.

 

[CocoHusky]

Baylor's size is going to overwhelm us. We couldn't rebound against Florida State in the first half. Baylor's line up is huge! The only was this stays close, IMO, is if Baylor gets Gampel jitters and we hit about 12 three's. This isn't a sky is falling post, but it's what I think. We just don't have the height in the post for us to be successful in the low block, offensively or defensively. I've said all along that defensively is where we miss the Big 3 the most, not on offense. This will be glaring in this game, I fear. But hey, it's why you play the games.

The leading rebounder in the FSU game was the smallest player on the floor Brown with 10 rebounds. We did not get out rebounded because of size. We got out quicked.

 

[ucbart]

Well then, that should be even more concerning.

 

[easttexastrash]

The leading rebounder in the FSU game was the smallest player on the floor Brown with 10 rebounds. We did not get out rebounded because of size. We got out quicked.

There aren't many quicker than Nina Davis and Alexis Jones. You may get out-quicked and out-sized. Make note that Alexis Prince also had 9 rebounds from her guard position against UCLA. She is a very good reounder at 6-2 with long arms.

 

[CocoHusky]

Well then, that should be even more concerning.

Not really. UCONN is not going to suddenly grow before game time but I bet if you when to Gabby, Saniya & Kia and said "You ALL need to be quicker to the ball I bet that is something they can put some effort into.

 

[CocoHusky]

There aren't many quicker than Nina Davis and Alexis Jones. You may get out-quicked and out-sized. Make note that Alexis Prince also had 9 rebounds from her guard position against UCLA. She is a very good reounder at 6-2 with long arms.

We might. There is nothing we can do about the height. If Kim goes with two bigs UCONN will zone and run, that will be to UCONN advantage. How good is Baylor's zone offense?

 

[easttexastrash]

We might. There is nothing we can do about the height. If Kim goes with two bigs UCONN will zone and run, that will be to UCONN advantage. How good is Baylor's zone offense?

Every player on the perimeter has the green light to shoot the three and they are very all very capable shooters, unless Nina Davis is moved to the 3 position. Natalie Chou will come off the bench and is a pure shooter.

This should be a very interesting chess match between two great teams and two great coaches. Geno is the master so I expect him to throw some things at Baylor that they may not have seen before and if they don't react to it the game could get ugly for Baylor.