Ok Coach F up - but Coach's Guy Ollie is the Guy

[Danzz]

HORRIBLE if Ollie gets chosen and I will write Herbst early and often pleading with her not to do it. A program of UConn's caliber needs a coach with a track record of Div 1 success and Ollie ain't it.

Stevens.

How would you possibly know if Ollie would be a a horrible hire?You don't and I'm sure Herbst will value your opinion; maybe even put you on the search committe.

 

[Excalibur]

If you don't think hiring Manuel over making the interim Pendergast perm wasn't a reflection of what direction the wind was blowing and how much input Calhoun would have on his replacement - I respectably disagree. It was a sign of future decisions. Pendergast would have gone along with Jim's wishes and Herbst knew that.

I know for a fact that Pendergast was never a candidate for the full time job. Herbst had made that decision before he showed up.

 

[progrocks]

Purdue did it when Keady was getting ready to leave. They brought in Matt Painter as a co-coach or coach in waiting.

Totally different. Painter was a purdue guy coming home to work with a man he admired, Shaka has NOTHING to do with UConn and no relationship with Calhoun.

Also, earlier in the thread someone said that you can not hire a coach in waiting at a public school, well, Purdue did and they are a public school.

 

[Waquoit]

I don't know all the inner workings with Pendergast, but he was quoted fairly early on that he didn't want to be the full-time AD. Perhaps he was just BSing but...

I read the exact opposite. And he sure sounded disappointed to me when I heard him on the radio.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Totally different. Painter was a purdue guy coming home to work with a man he admired, Shaka has NOTHING to do with UConn and no relationship with Calhoun.

Also, earlier in the thread someone said that you can not hire a coach in waiting at a public school, well, Purdue did and they are a public school.

I'm not sure how similar the rules are in Indiana vs Connecticut. I do know however that when Edsall left, the football HC position was publicly posted for at least ten days before any 'official' interviews began.

 

[jleves]

Someone floated the idea that you cannot appoint a coach in waiting and that has somehow grown legs to be the defacto belief. I would argue that any coaching position is an exempt position and can be filled in any manner the president and AD want. I don't remember any 'posting' when Blaney was hired. Not even sure if there was one for Ollie. Sometimes they do post a position to see what is out there. They have options. Even if they have to post the position, there's no reason they couldn't post a position for a 'coach in waiting' or 'future head coach' or whatever and get the job done that way. Bottom line, if the powers that be wanted Ollie to be a coach in waiting (or the unicorn version of Smart as the coach in waiting), it would get done.

They are obviously smarter than many here and see no reason to handcuff themselves to a future as long as they have a hall of fame coach stomping the sidelines. There are very few situations where a coach in waiting is the best option. This isn't one of them.

 

[upstater]

Totally different. Painter was a purdue guy coming home to work with a man he admired, Shaka has NOTHING to do with UConn and no relationship with Calhoun.

Also, earlier in the thread someone said that you can not hire a coach in waiting at a public school, well, Purdue did and they are a public school.

If anything was guaranteed to him, they violated the law, and it couldn't have been his official position.

 

[upstater]

Someone floated the idea that you cannot appoint a coach in waiting and that has somehow grown legs to be the defacto belief. I would argue that any coaching position is an exempt position and can be filled in any manner the president and AD want. I don't remember any 'posting' when Blaney was hired. Not even sure if there was one for Ollie. Sometimes they do post a position to see what is out there. They have options. Even if they have to post the position, there's no reason they couldn't post a position for a 'coach in waiting' or 'future head coach' or whatever and get the job done that way. Bottom line, if the powers that be wanted Ollie to be a coach in waiting (or the unicorn version of Smart as the coach in waiting), it would get done.

They are obviously smarter than many here and see no reason to handcuff themselves to a future as long as they have a hall of fame coach stomping the sidelines. There are very few situations where a coach in waiting is the best option. This isn't one of them.

The school abides by state employment laws no matter the job.

 

[caw]

I read the exact opposite. And he sure sounded disappointed to me when I heard him on the radio.

http://articles.courant.com/2012-01...nt-susan-herbst-uconn-foundation-werth-family

Not saying your wrong, just what I read. Doesn't sound like a man who is terribly distraught about not being named full-time AD.

"As I told President Herbst, I'd like to devote all of my time to key areas where I can best serve this institution," said Pendergast, who will remain as interim AD until his successor is in place. "This is an amazing place and I am excited about the work ahead."

 

[freescooter]

When he was appointed "interim AD" he said he wanted to be considered for the full time job. But after the search process was announced, he took himself ou tof the running and accepted the fundraiser gig and chaired the AD selection committee. Sounds very much like a situation where he was told upfront that he was not going to be considered for the permanenet gig, but was given another positionwhere his specific skills were best used.

As far as Calhoun picking his successor, I don't see that happening. Manuel has no Calhoun ties, nor does Herbst. She doesn't do business that way, as a few folks have pointed out. And hiring the new basketball coach at Connecticut is one of those career dfining moves for an AD. No way on this earth is he giving up that job. UCONN will go out and look at who is available and bring in a guy with experience. they aren't handing the most high profile job in the entire University 9other than maybe the President, but that's a big maybe) to a cipher. Calhoun might be lobbying for Ollie, but it ain't happening short of pulling a Dean Smith type retirement, in which case somebody on the exisitng staff gets named interim coach, but no guarentee it is Ollie.

 

[HuskyHawk]

As far as Calhoun picking his successor, I don't see that happening. Manuel has no Calhoun ties, nor does Herbst. She doesn't do business that way, as a few folks have pointed out. And hiring the new basketball coach at Connecticut is one of those career dfining moves for an AD. No way on this earth is he giving up that job. UCONN will go out and look at who is available and bring in a guy with experience. they aren't handing the most high profile job in the entire University 9other than maybe the President, but that's a big maybe) to a cipher. Calhoun might be lobbying for Ollie, but it ain't happening short of pulling a Dean Smith type retirement, in which case somebody on the exisitng staff gets named interim coach, but no guarentee it is Ollie.

Agreed. It's one thing for a North Carolina to keep the seat warm for a proven guy, who is also a Dean Smith guy, like Roy Williams. Or or WVU to bring home Huggins. If Ollie was currently head coach in the MVC and getting into the NCAAs regularly, then he'd be the presumptive guy. Instead he didn't even get to coach in JC's absence last year. Meanwhile, Hobbs has a better track record...and sits on the same bench.

I think it's clear that the Warde and Herbst will cast the net and see what they can get. If it's Shaka Smart, Mark Few, Brad Stephens or another young coach with a strong record...I think he gets the job. Even better if an even bigger fish like Billy Donovan could be brought in. I think Ollie has no chance against those guys. But if the best we can do is a bunch of guys who don't impress, then I can see them rolling the dice with Ollie. It's a polictical killer to get this move wrong. If you don't think you have a guy you are sure can win, then you might as well go with the popular risky coach, instead of an unknown.

 

[freescooter]

Gotta say I agree with your analysis hawk. But I can't imagine a scenario where UCONN doesn't get their preferred choice and it will be either a young up and commer ala Smart, or an established guy who has had success at a "lesser" program in a Big conference.

 

[Mr.Phat]

How would you possibly know if Ollie would be a a horrible hire?You don't and I'm sure Herbst will value your opinion; maybe even put you on the search committe.

It's horrible that we don't have a track record of any success of Ollie's. It would be horrible because of the uncertainty of the hire. A coach with success elsewhere is no guarantee of success here. But at least we know he can succeed because, empirically, he has. We won't know this about Ollie, because, empirically, he hasn't. He hasn't at all proven himself. For a program of this caliber, the risk is simply too high. It's astonishing than anyone could even conceive that Ollie is a good candidate for one of the great coaching jobs in all of collegiate sports.

Think of it this way: everyone here says UConn is one of a few elite basketball programs, in the same league as Kansas, Duke, NC. Could you imagine any of those programs replacing their existing head coaches with an assistant on the staff who had played for them and who had NO head coaching experience elsewhere? Could you imagine Duke replacing Shechefski with someone like that? Really?

NEVER.

Doherty had very little HC experience before being hired at NC - look how he turned out. He was hired on the strength of his having played at NC. Clearly not a sufficient criteria to give him the HC job at one of the great programs in college. Then NC got smart and hired a coach with a huge track record. Look what happened afterwards.

Self coached at Oral Roberts, Tulsa and Illinois before Kansas THREE SCHOOLS.

I have nothing against Ollie per se. He just doesn't have the resume. Maybe he will some day. Go off to George Mason as HC, win a few conference championships, make it to the sweet 16 a few times, beat a UConn, put one or two players in the NBA and we'll talk. THEN he would be a strong candidate.

Would you hire someone with NO track record, and little experience for a senior level position in a company? Hiring Ollie would be comparable to hiring someone just a couple of years out of college with bartending experience for a C-suite position at a corporation. I think not.

But then you probably work in government, which would explain a lot.

 

[bpear1600]

It's horrible that we don't have a track record of any success of Ollie's. It would be horrible because of the uncertainty of the hire. A coach with success elsewhere is no guarantee of success here. But at least we know he can succeed because, empirically, he has. We won't know this about Ollie, because, empirically, he hasn't. He hasn't at all proven himself. For a program of this caliber, the risk is simply too high. It's astonishing than anyone could even conceive that Ollie is a good candidate for one of the great coaching jobs in all of collegiate sports.

Think of it this way: everyone here says UConn is one of a few elite basketball programs, in the same league as Kansas, Duke, NC. Could you imagine any of those programs replacing their existing head coaches with an assistant on the staff who had played for them and who had NO head coaching experience elsewhere? Could you imagine Duke replacing Shechefski with someone like that? Really?

NEVER.

Doherty had very little HC experience before being hired at NC - look how he turned out. He was hired on the strength of his having played at NC. Clearly not a sufficient criteria to give him the HC job at one of the great programs in college. Then NC got smart and hired a coach with a huge track record. Look what happened afterwards.

Self coached at Oral Roberts, Tulsa and Illinois before Kansas THREE SCHOOLS.

I have nothing against Ollie per se. He just doesn't have the resume. Maybe he will some day. Go off to George Mason as HC, win a few conference championships, make it to the sweet 16 a few times, beat a UConn, put one or two players in the NBA and we'll talk. THEN he would be a strong candidate.

Would you hire someone with NO track record, and little experience for a senior level position in a company? Hiring Ollie would be comparable to hiring someone just a couple of years out of college with bartending experience for a C-suite position at a corporation. I think not.

But then you probably work in government, which would explain a lot.

Butch Beard was an applicant along with Calhoun. I'm wondering how many here would have hired him because he played in the NBA. Having been a color analyst he could also put sentences together , something some here claim Ollie has difficulty with.

By all accounts Ollie is a good man but he should not be on any short list of candidates to succeed Calhoun.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Doherty had very little HC experience before being hired at NC - look how he turned out. He was hired on the strength of his having played at NC. Clearly not a sufficient criteria to give him the HC job at one of the great programs in college. Then NC got smart and hired a coach with a huge track record. Look what happened afterwards.

Self coached at Oral Roberts, Tulsa and Illinois before Kansas THREE SCHOOLS.

As a side note, Doherty was an assistant at Kansas while I was there. I often saw him at the local bars (he was a similar age to most law students), and I kicked his ass on the pool tables at least a dozen times. My impression, he was a total and complete -bag. Nobody could stand the guy. His ego was immense and his mental capacity was not. Not at all suprised to see him flame out in job after job.

To be fair to UNC, they did offer the job to Roy when Doherty took it. But Roy tearfully declined and decided to stay at KU. I suspect he recommended Doherty, his assistant. I'm sure the next call from Chapel Hill was along the lines of...."are you trying to kill Dean's Smith's legacy at your alma mater Roy!" "Get your butt over here and clean up this mess". Followed of course by Roy tearfully accepting the job.

 

[Mr.Phat]

As a side note, Doherty was an assistant at Kansas while I was there. I often saw him at the local bars (he was a similar age to most law students), and I kicked his ass on the pool tables at least a dozen times. My impression, he was a total and complete -bag. Nobody could stand the guy. His ego was immense and his mental capacity was not. Not at all suprised to see him flame out in job after job.

To be fair to UNC, they did offer the job to Roy when Doherty took it. But Roy tearfully declined and decided to stay at KU. I suspect he recommended Doherty, his assistant. I'm sure the next call from Chapel Hill was along the lines of...."are you trying to kill Dean's Smith's legacy at your alma mater Roy!" "Get your butt over here and clean up this mess". Followed of course by Roy tearfully accepting the job.

The fact that I left out the fact that RW was offered at NC first reinforces my point - NC had the right idea going after him first. I just can't believe the first choice is Williams and then the second is Doherty. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[freescooter]

It's horrible that we don't have a track record of any success of Ollie's. It would be horrible because of the uncertainty of the hire. A coach with success elsewhere is no guarantee of success here. But at least we know he can succeed because, empirically, he has. We won't know this about Ollie, because, empirically, he hasn't. He hasn't at all proven himself. For a program of this caliber, the risk is simply too high. It's astonishing than anyone could even conceive that Ollie is a good candidate for one of the great coaching jobs in all of collegiate sports.

Think of it this way: everyone here says UConn is one of a few elite basketball programs, in the same league as Kansas, Duke, NC. Could you imagine any of those programs replacing their existing head coaches with an assistant on the staff who had played for them and who had NO head coaching experience elsewhere? Could you imagine Duke replacing Shechefski with someone like that? Really?

NEVER.

Doherty had very little HC experience before being hired at NC - look how he turned out. He was hired on the strength of his having played at NC. Clearly not a sufficient criteria to give him the HC job at one of the great programs in college. Then NC got smart and hired a coach with a huge track record. Look what happened afterwards.

Self coached at Oral Roberts, Tulsa and Illinois before Kansas THREE SCHOOLS.

I have nothing against Ollie per se. He just doesn't have the resume. Maybe he will some day. Go off to George Mason as HC, win a few conference championships, make it to the sweet 16 a few times, beat a UConn, put one or two players in the NBA and we'll talk. THEN he would be a strong candidate.

Would you hire someone with NO track record, and little experience for a senior level position in a company? Hiring Ollie would be comparable to hiring someone just a couple of years out of college with bartending experience for a C-suite position at a corporation. I think not.

But then you probably work in government, which would explain a lot.

I think you nailed it...This is exactly what I said about the last "replacement of the month" when everyone was yelling that Tom Moore would get the job...Take Quinnipiac to the NCAA, then go to Iona or someplace and get them into the dance and win a game then get them back the next year. Same rules apply to Ollie. Notice that in both cases the big plus is that these guys are "big time recruitiers..." but what it demonstrates, I think is that you can get good recruiters. That is a very different skill than being a head coach.

Give me a guy who has been there, won his league, gone to the NCAA tournament and at a minimum aquitted himself well there. Even going back, that was Jim Calhoun's resume for that matter. The fact that a guy played in the league might impress recruits but how many chose UCONN because of Kevin Ollie...and how many did it to play for Jim Calhoun? How many years was Calhoun's NBA career? Or Calipari's for that matter? Coaching and playing are very different skills.