NYT Article Comparing Career Achievements of Sylvia Fowles and Sue Bird

[JoePgh]

There is an article in today's New York Times noting the imminent retirements of Sue and Sylvia Fowles, noting that their career achievements are comparable but that Sue is getting a whole lot more notice. The printed headline is "Two Brilliant Careers, but One Was Out of the Limelight".

It's hard to argue with the basic premise of the article, which is that Sue has gotten a whole lot more ink, and more affection from the sports media and the general public, than Sylvia has. It even has a quote from Sue, who notes that beyond being white, she is "small and therefore not intimidating, compared to Syl, who is black, dark-skinned, and of a certain stature, yeah, that is 100 percent at play here." She isn't wrong.

The article further states that this has resulted in a "yawning gap between their sponsorship deals, popularity, name recognition, and even post-career broadcast opportunities." That is true despite the fact that Syl has a spotless record regarding off-court behavior over her entire and very long career.

That is the main theme of the article, but there are some other points of interest, such as a quote from Maya Moore saying that "Syl is the embodiment of the perfect teammate." It also notes that Syl is considering a future career as an undertaker -- you can read the article to learn more about that.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

There is an article in today's New York Times noting the imminent retirements of Sue and Sylvia Fowles, noting that their career achievements are comparable but that Sue is getting a whole lot more notice. The printed headline is "Two Brilliant Careers, but One Was Out of the Limelight".

It's hard to argue with the basic premise of the article, which is that Sue has gotten a whole lot more ink, and more affection from the sports media and the general public, than Sylvia has. It even has a quote from Sue, who notes that beyond being white, she is "small and therefore not intimidating, compared to Syl, who is black, dark-skinned, and of a certain stature, yeah, that is 100 percent at play here." She isn't wrong.

The article further states that this has resulted in a "yawning gap between their sponsorship deals, popularity, name recognition, and even post-career broadcast opportunities." That is true despite the fact that Syl has a spotless record regarding off-court behavior over her entire and very long career.

That is the main theme of the article, but there are some other points of interest, such as a quote from Maya Moore saying that "Syl is the embodiment of the perfect teammate." It also notes that Syl is considering a future career as an undertaker -- you can read the article to learn more about that.

I read the article. It was a good one and I'm glad to see that Fowles is getting some love. She's been terrific.

I definitely think appearance makes a difference in their level of attention and sponsorships. However, Fowles by nature just seems more reserved as well. Also, Bird's relationship with Rapinoe has garnered attention from the media as well.

I don't really disagree with the implication of the article but I do think there are other contributing factors. However, I can't think of anyone in the sport who has ever said a negative word about Fowles. Being respected by your peers and coaches is far more important than public adoration.

 

[HuskyNan]

I read the article. It was a good one and I'm glad to see that Fowles is getting some love. She's been terrific.

I definitely think appearance makes a difference in their level of attention and sponsorships. However, Fowles by nature just seems more reserved as well. Also, Bird's relationship with Rapinoe has garnered attention from the media as well.

I don't really disagree with the implication of the article but I do think there are other contributing factors. However, I can't think of anyone in the sport who has ever said a negative word about Fowles. Being respected by your peers and coaches is far more important than public adoration.

Sue has also won a bunch of championships at different levels.

That said, I’m not disagreeing that color is a a factor in the difference in coverage

 

[UcMiami]

Interesting article and certainly an issue worthy of reflection, but ... I also think 'marketability' is a matter of momentum and context:

Sue and DT, Parker and Maya enter the WNBA as #1 draft picks and 2x or 3x NCAA champions for dominant college programs, except for Parker they won WNBA titles early in their careers and continued to win titles establishing themselves in their cities as 'stars' and spent their careers in those cities. I think of the four Maya may well have had an earlier and stronger marketability than either Sue or DT - her shoe deal was probably the biggest, her Capital One commercials were probably the best 'national' crossover campaigns of their time. Except for Parker they all went to cities where the WNBA was a big deal. (Fowles and Parker went to oversaturated sports markets.)

Sylvia had a great college career leading LSU to 4 of their at the time record tying string of five FF appearances, but ... no NCAA championships and definitely second to Parkers 2 NCAAs and her #1 WNBA draft status. Her WNBA career started in Chicago with one WNBA final appearance in seven years. She then got traded to 'Maya's team' and was instrumental in their final 2 NCs.

There is only so much 'oxygen' devoted to female athletes as it stands today and I think players like Parker and Moore (when playing) as well as Sue take up most of it for WNBA, and Sue's appeal lately been as part of a power couple as much as an WNBA player. Fowles has always seemed a quieter individual - Augustus her teammate with LSU, the Lynx, and USA basketball was more 'visible' than Fowles.

 

[Kat]

Leave it to the NYT to go "both sides" instead of just telling readers about both players.

 

[HuskyNan]

Interesting article and certainly an issue worthy of reflection, but ... I also think 'marketability' is a matter of momentum and context:

Sue and DT, Parker and Maya enter the WNBA as #1 draft picks and 2x or 3x NCAA champions for dominant college programs, except for Parker they won WNBA titles early in their careers and continued to win titles establishing themselves in their cities as 'stars' and spent their careers in those cities. I think of the four Maya may well have had an earlier and stronger marketability than either Sue or DT - her shoe deal was probably the biggest, her Capital One commercials were probably the best 'national' crossover campaigns of their time. Except for Parker they all went to cities where the WNBA was a big deal. (Fowles and Parker went to oversaturated sports markets.)

Sylvia had a great college career leading LSU to 4 of their at the time record tying string of five FF appearances, but ... no NCAA championships and definitely second to Parkers 2 NCAAs and her #1 WNBA draft status. Her WNBA career started in Chicago with one WNBA final appearance in seven years. She then got traded to 'Maya's team' and was instrumental in their final 2 NCs.

There is only so much 'oxygen' devoted to female athletes as it stands today and I think players like Parker and Moore (when playing) as well as Sue take up most of it for WNBA, and Sue's appeal lately been as part of a power couple as much as an WNBA player. Fowles has always seemed a quieter individual - Augustus her teammate with LSU, the Lynx, and USA basketball was more 'visible' than Fowles.

Don’t forget the attention paid to Skylar Diggins.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Don’t forget the attention paid to Skylar Diggins.

Skylar during the draft and early on was one of the "3 to See". Griner and EDD have won a WNBA title but Skylar hasn't yet. I don't think Diggins has been overly promoted by the league since as Stewie got the most attention a few years later as the new kid on the block, later Ionescu.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Interesting article and certainly an issue worthy of reflection, but ... I also think 'marketability' is a matter of momentum and context:

Sue and DT, Parker and Maya enter the WNBA as #1 draft picks and 2x or 3x NCAA champions for dominant college programs, except for Parker they won WNBA titles early in their careers and continued to win titles establishing themselves in their cities as 'stars' and spent their careers in those cities. I think of the four Maya may well have had an earlier and stronger marketability than either Sue or DT - her shoe deal was probably the biggest, her Capital One commercials were probably the best 'national' crossover campaigns of their time. Except for Parker they all went to cities where the WNBA was a big deal. (Fowles and Parker went to oversaturated sports markets.)

Sylvia had a great college career leading LSU to 4 of their at the time record tying string of five FF appearances, but ... no NCAA championships and definitely second to Parkers 2 NCAAs and her #1 WNBA draft status. Her WNBA career started in Chicago with one WNBA final appearance in seven years. She then got traded to 'Maya's team' and was instrumental in their final 2 NCs.

There is only so much 'oxygen' devoted to female athletes as it stands today and I think players like Parker and Moore (when playing) as well as Sue take up most of it for WNBA, and Sue's appeal lately been as part of a power couple as much as an WNBA player. Fowles has always seemed a quieter individual - Augustus her teammate with LSU, the Lynx, and USA basketball was more 'visible' than Fowles.

To a degree Fowles lack of college success (relative to the others mentioned) made her arrival somewhat muted, plus playing for Chicago didn't help while Parker was in LA. I agree there are only so many players who will get attention from the mainstream press and Fowles just wasn't one of those.

 

[eebmg]

Skylar during the draft and early on was one of the "3 to See". Griner and EDD have won a WNBA title but Skylar hasn't yet. I don't think Diggins has been overly promoted by the league since as Stewie got the most attention a few years later as the new kid on the block, later Ionescu.

Not sure how she was being promoted (I guess fashion?) since she had a really tough rookie year and her exasperation showed big time. Not unlike the UConn semifinal.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

It appears to be a similar theme to the one illuminated in the ESPN 30 for 30 film about the 1986 women's national team. Rebecca Lobo, a pretty young white woman was constantly being interviewed and invited onto television talk shows, even though she was arguably the least talented player on the Team USA roster at the time. And she admitted it. Her Black professional teammates were regularly overlooked by the media covering them, according to the film.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Sylvia Fowles absolutely clobbered Tina Charles in the NCAA's in Tina's sophomore year. She won two NC's after Fowles graduated. Fowles was an all-time great.

 

[UcMiami]

Sylvia Fowles absolutely clobbered Tina Charles in the NCAA's in Tina's sophomore year. She won two NC's after Fowles graduated. Fowles was an all-time great.

Sylvia clobbered Uconn and Tina in 2007 in the last elite eight game Uconn lost - Tina's freshman year. . LSU went on to get clobbered by Rutgers in the FF that year scoring only 35 points and losing by 24. Uconn LSU didn't play her sophomore year when Stanford beat Uconn in the FF and LSU fell to Parker and TN at the FF.

It appears to be a similar theme to the one illuminated in the ESPN 30 for 30 film about the 1986 women's national team. Rebecca Lobo, a pretty young white woman was constantly being interviewed and invited onto television talk shows, even though she was arguably the least talented player on the Team USA roster at the time. And she admitted it. Her Black professional teammates were regularly overlooked by the media covering them, according to the film.

Women's basketball got basically zero national attention until Uconn/TN in 1995 when Lobo became the darling of tiny Uconn's improbable undefeated season and NC - which helped launch two professional women's basketball leagues - for all she was young and not as experienced as the rest of that Olympic team, she was the only national face of the sport in 1996. Thompson, Swoopes, and Cooper (houston) and Lisa Leslie (LA) easily eclipsed her in recognition as the pro game took off but the college game continued (and continues to be?) a bigger media draw than the pro's. Uconn/TN remain the premier women's basketball games at any level for more than a decade and the only games consistently getting national broadcasts.

 

[Bigboote]

Lemme tellya, Sweet Syl and Sue are spoken of with the same reverence chez Bigboote.

They're both model teammates and totally lovable people. That smile of Syl's tells you everything you need to know about her. She just oozes warmth and love of live and basketball in interviews.

Her accomplishments may not be quite as lofty as Sue's, but geez, how much more do you want than four Olympic gold medals, two WNBA championships (MVP in both finals), two World gold medals. . .

These may be the two best ever at their positions, but even if not, there's no way I'd take a point guard above Sue or a center above Syl if I were building a team.

 

[UcMiami]

Lemme tellya, Sweet Syl and Sue are spoken of with the same reverence chez Bigboote.

They're both model teammates and totally lovable people. That smile of Syl's tells you everything you need to know about her. She just oozes warmth and love of live and basketball in interviews.

Her accomplishments may not be quite as lofty as Sue's, but geez, how much more do you want than four Olympic gold medals, two WNBA championships (MVP in both finals), two World gold medals. . .

These may be the two best ever at their positions, but even if not, there's no way I'd take a point guard above Sue or a center above Syl if I were building a team.

I agree with everything except being torn between Lisa Leslie and Big Syl as far as the center - very comparable careers - no NCAA championships, 2 WNBA, 4 Olympic Golds, and both with WC gold (leslie with 2 to 1) Syl a better rebounder, Leslie a better scorer and blocker - both dominant. Leslie lost three years as a pro since she graduated in 1994 and the league started in 1997.

(It is interesting that the other WNBA 'bigs' that might compete with those two are generally more 'power forwards' than centers - think Tina, A'ja, Lauren Jackson, etc..)

Factoid - Lauren Jackson has been named to this coming WC Australia team today. (Who says Sue and Sylvia couldn't suit up for USA?!)

 

[Beemer]

Womens' pro sports are still in their historical infancy- women's pro tennis as we know it today didn't get its start until the early 1970s for example and of course the WNBA is only 25 years old. It is still at the point where a female athlete has to win major championships in order to make the big endorsement bucks (Anna Kournikova is the exception, not the rule), they can't just show up on the scene the way the men do. As others have said Sylvia Fowles didn't have the name recognition of a Candace Parker or a Sue Bird coming out of college and that definitely limited her opportunities. On the other hand perhaps she figured between the WNBA, playing overseas & having settled on her post basketball career she didn't need or want to pursue off court opportunities, after all not everyone feels the need to chase the Almighty Dollar. I don't know, just spitballing here.

I am intrigued by her choice of post basketball career though. An undertaker? Unusual profession to say the least!

 

[Bigboote]

I agree with everything except being torn between Lisa Leslie and Big Syl as far as the center - very comparable careers - no NCAA championships, 2 WNBA, 4 Olympic Golds, and both with WC gold (leslie with 2 to 1) Syl a better rebounder, Leslie a better scorer and blocker - both dominant. Leslie lost three years as a pro since she graduated in 1994 and the league started in 1997.

(It is interesting that the other WNBA 'bigs' that might compete with those two are generally more 'power forwards' than centers - think Tina, A'ja, Lauren Jackson, etc..)

Factoid - Lauren Jackson has been named to this coming WC Australia team today. (Who says Sue and Sylvia couldn't suit up for USA?!)

Yeah, that's my recency bias -- I've only been following the W for ten years or so, so never saw Leslie except in highlight reels.

 

[Bigboote]

I am intrigued by her choice of post basketball career though. An undertaker? Unusual profession to say the least!

I have a family member who did a thanatology course. She never followed through, though. Would've been cool to see the erstwhile goth working in a funeral home. ; )

 

[Sifaka]

I have a family member who did a thanatology course. She never followed through, though. Would've been cool to see the erstwhile goth working in a funeral home. ; )

All thanatology curricula should include Evelyn Waugh's Masterpiece, The Loved One.



Advanced course will include…

 

[CL82]

I have a family member who did a thanatology course. She never followed through, though. Would've been cool to see the erstwhile goth working in a funeral home. ; )

She would probably have been bored stiff.

 

[cabbie191]

She would probably have been bored stiff.

Okay - you get the gold star for best groan pun!

 

[CL82]

Okay - you get the gold star for best groan pun!

Yeah, it was an easy one to make. Not that I don’t have respect for morticians. It’s a tough job. I’m pretty sure they come home dead tired.

 

[Ozimoto]

And it continues...

 

[cabbie191]

When I worked as a county planner in WI, I worked at times with our state senators and assemblymen. The best of the lot so far asi was concerned, in terms of being prepared for meetings and taking time to bone up on various issues, owned a funeral parlor.

Years later in retirement in MI, I began working part time for a small town independently owned funeral home. I found it to be a really fascinating experience.

 

[UCTitleTown]

I just read an article about Sue Bird's future plans (sorry, I can't find the article to post the link). For many here that saw Sue Bird as a future UConn headcoach, it doesn't look like that's happening. She would only consider coaching a pro team.

 

[Ozimoto]

We have good friends in the business. Truly delightful, kind, caring and empathetic people.