NY Post St. John’s Hurley What If Article | The Boneyard

NY Post St. John’s Hurley What If Article

dogpause said:
For all the criticism Hurley gets, I still think he was the best choice for this program. As the talent level increases, the program will regain its stature.
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He was 100% the correct choice to dig us out of the abyss. Jury is still out on if he will be the guy to get us back to elite, top 10 contender status. Next year will be the big test for him. He knows we are deficient in some areas, let's see how he utilizes the transfer portal to try to fix that.
 
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elmcityboy said:
the georgetown board was talking about this the other day as well -- apparently they also feel like they had a shot at hurley before ewing was hired.

sucks to be them.
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They are in the worst possible situation. Failing coach who is an absolute legend in program history. The last few years of Ollie was messy because of his history in the program and he is not nearly the same stature as Ewing. Memphis may see a similar fate also.
 
Here's the thing... For many years, JC got criticism here for being a guy who could recruit but could not win the "big one." He was attacked for his total lack of a half-court offense, an inability to get/use his bigs, rotation issues (Brian Fair would score 20 every time JC was out/ejected) and for his teams being soft.

I actually see a lot of similarities between Hurley and early (86-98) JC. Neither blew you away from a pure Xs and Os standpoint. But they could recruit and they were able to get their teams to play hard. I think Hurley was the perfect hire here and once he gets a better "balanced" team here, I think we will be a consistent power. Our issue now is that we just do not have enough competent guards to play his "offense" which is predicated on guys making plays as opposed to an offense that sets up guys, if that makes sense. The same was true under JC. We relied heavily on star players, notably guards (and Donyell) to just make plays and be the best player(s) on the court.
 
as promised in these pages preseason, the johnnycoats have stunk, do stink, and will continue to stink until proven differently. i guess back in the stone age, they had a coach fond of goofy xmas sweaters, and won a game or two, tho amounting to nothing. i guess that they didn't have indoor heating back then.
zero, nada, squat, including less than ten players making it to the league in all that time of hype. that's the program, according to it's decades long history of futility. now, they have a coach purrfect for the job - all hat, no cattle.
of course hype-head lavin got his butt handed to him with all his 'johnnycoats will win the game! the johnnycoats will come back!,' and all the rest of his fast-talking nonsense. ol pt barnum was right to move his circus to that town, where it belonged. attendance at the game less than stellar? yeah, umm, no. we have checked off the list places to visit that are insane with the the whole 'show me ur papers' and such brain damage. bye-bye, clown colonies. only two million have left that state in the past ten years. duh.
the only thing that i learned from that article is there is a guy on hofstra named darlinstone dubar, and now he is a member of my all-alliterative team, captained by pauli paulincamp.
 
Honestly I’m guessing most of you guys didn’t follow UConn in the early Calhoun years. It wasnt until after losing big post season games, particularly Sweet 16 games to Florida and Miss State, that the criticism that he couldn’t win a title started. And nobody ever said his teams were soft. Never, ever. And the lack of offense Claim came much later, too. That was largely a result of a change in his approach after the Maryland and Texas losses. The game at that point was changing to where teams were going bigger. Calhoun even said so himself and started recruiting bigger guys who played a very different style From the 1990-2000 teams. When he had talent like in 2004, they were very good. When it wasn’t as talented, we were merely pretty good to good. People forget that UConn was talking about leaving the original Big East when Calhoun arrived. Within 4 years he had a team playing in the Elite 8. And these were a few of the Big East Coaches when he came to the league: Georgetown John Thompson, Villanova: Rollie Massimino, St Johns Looie Carnesecca, Syracuse Boeheim, Seton Hall PJ Carlisimo, BC Jim O’Brien, Providence Rick Pitino. He had the worst team in the league, and had to Build it against that group. Danny would have run out of the building screaming. Seriously. And it wasn’t a bunch of borderline Top 25 programs either. We are talking perennial top 10 teams. One year, though pre-Calhoun, the Big East came within a shot of having all four Final Four teams. BC lost in the Elite Eight but St Johns, Villanova and Georgetown got there. That is how great the real Big East was.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
They are in the worst possible situation. Failing coach who is an absolute legend in program history. The last few years of Ollie was messy because of his history in the program and he is not nearly the same stature as Ewing. Memphis may see a similar fate also.
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Memphis on a run right now.

A month ago it looked like Penny might lose whole team. Seemsto have turned it around .
 
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freescooter said:
Honestly I’m guessing most of you guys didn’t follow UConn in the early Calhoun years. It wasnt until after losing big post season games, particularly Sweet 16 games to Florida and Miss State, that the criticism that he couldn’t win a title started. And nobody ever said his teams were soft. Never, ever. And the lack of offense Claim came much later, too. That was largely a result of a change in his approach after the Maryland and Texas losses. The game at that point was changing to where teams were going bigger. Calhoun even said so himself and started recruiting bigger guys who played a very different style From the 1990-2000 teams. When he had talent like in 2004, they were very good. When it wasn’t as talented, we were merely pretty good to good. People forget that UConn was talking about leaving the original Big East when Calhoun arrived. Within 4 years he had a team playing in the Elite 8. And these were a few of the Big East Coaches when he came to the league: Georgetown John Thompson, Villanova: Rollie Massimino, St Johns Looie Carnesecca, Syracuse Boeheim, Seton Hall PJ Carlisimo, BC Jim O’Brien, Providence Rick Pitino. He had the worst team in the league, and had to Build it against that group. Danny would have run out of the building screaming. Seriously. And it wasn’t a bunch of borderline Top 25 programs either. We are talking perennial top 10 teams. One year, though pre-Calhoun, the Big East came within a shot of having all four Final Four teams. BC lost in the Elite Eight but St Johns, Villanova and Georgetown got there. That is how great the real Big East was.
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My "soft" comment was based upon watching Donyell, Travis, Ray, etc get beat up on the reg by bigger teams. There's a reason we struggled so mightily with Florida and Mississippi State as well as Boubacar Ow and that GTown bunch. They slowed us down, exposed our difficulty in creating offense in the half-court (most of our offense in those days was built off transition and having Ray run off screens), got back on defense.

I totally disagree with your timeline. The MO was already set that to beat us you need to make us play half-court and eliminate our transition offense after makes and misses. Play Ray and Donyell physical and they would not be as effective because they were soft.

In no place did I say Hurley is on JCs level, but they are similar in coaching philosophy - Defense, toughness, and "NBA" style offense. Recruit athletes, etc. I do not think that can be denied.
 
August_West said:
Memphis on a run right now.

A month ago it looked like Penny might lose whole team. Seemsto have turned it around .
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I am curiously watching at this point. The Houston win was undoubtedly a good one, the rest of their wins in that span have been against pretty bad teams that they should have easily handled. They're intriguing if nothing else.
 
boog204 said:
Here's the thing... For many years, JC got criticism here for being a guy who could recruit but could not win the "big one." He was attacked for his total lack of a half-court offense, an inability to get/use his bigs, rotation issues (Brian Fair would score 20 every time JC was out/ejected) and for his teams being soft.

I actually see a lot of similarities between Hurley and early (86-98) JC. Neither blew you away from a pure Xs and Os standpoint. But they could recruit and they were able to get their teams to play hard. I think Hurley was the perfect hire here and once he gets a better "balanced" team here, I think we will be a consistent power. Our issue now is that we just do not have enough competent guards to play his "offense" which is predicated on guys making plays as opposed to an offense that sets up guys, if that makes sense. The same was true under JC. We relied heavily on star players, notably guards (and Donyell) to just make plays and be the best player(s) on the court.
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I couldn’t agree more. People blasted me for defending Hurley getting a T with three minutes to go and said things like “Calhoun was smarter than to do it in that spot”. Comments like that clearly show they didn’t watch early Calhoun and only remember 99 and on because he was as loose of a cannon as Bobby Knight early on and I see a lot of similarities with Hurley, so if that means Hurley brings us four more national titles I think I’d take that…
 
boog204 said:
My "soft" comment was based upon watching Donyell, Travis, Ray, etc get beat up on the reg by bigger teams. There's a reason we struggled so mightily with Florida and Mississippi State as well as Boubacar Ow and that GTown bunch. They slowed us down, exposed our difficulty in creating offense in the half-court (most of our offense in those days was built off transition and having Ray run off screens), got back on defense.

I totally disagree with your timeline. The MO was already set that to beat us you need to make us play half-court and eliminate our transition offense after makes and misses. Play Ray and Donyell physical and they would not be as effective because they were soft.

In no place did I say Hurley is on JCs level, but they are similar in coaching philosophy - Defense, toughness, and "NBA" style offense. Recruit athletes, etc. I do not think that can be denied.
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From 1994-1996 we went 17-1, 17-1 and 16-2 in The Big East. I think we did ok. 94 we lost to Florida and yes we laid an egg. 95 we lost to UCLA in a great game. We were the second best team in the tournament. In 96 we were a physically beaten up team. Ricky got hurt, Doron could barely play vs Miss St and Ray was gassed. We had some great teams.
 
There are some people in this thread that make it seem like they used to be UConn fans, but aren't anymore. Just appreciate the good season we're having without comparing everything to Calhoun or the Old Big East. My god, it's exhausting.
 
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freescooter said:
Honestly I’m guessing most of you guys didn’t follow UConn in the early Calhoun years. It wasnt until after losing big post season games, particularly Sweet 16 games to Florida and Miss State, that the criticism that he couldn’t win a title started. And nobody ever said his teams were soft. Never, ever. And the lack of offense Claim came much later, too. That was largely a result of a change in his approach after the Maryland and Texas losses. The game at that point was changing to where teams were going bigger. Calhoun even said so himself and started recruiting bigger guys who played a very different style From the 1990-2000 teams. When he had talent like in 2004, they were very good. When it wasn’t as talented, we were merely pretty good to good. People forget that UConn was talking about leaving the original Big East when Calhoun arrived. Within 4 years he had a team playing in the Elite 8. And these were a few of the Big East Coaches when he came to the league: Georgetown John Thompson, Villanova: Rollie Massimino, St Johns Looie Carnesecca, Syracuse Boeheim, Seton Hall PJ Carlisimo, BC Jim O’Brien, Providence Rick Pitino. He had the worst team in the league, and had to Build it against that group. Danny would have run out of the building screaming. Seriously. And it wasn’t a bunch of borderline Top 25 programs either. We are talking perennial top 10 teams. One year, though pre-Calhoun, the Big East came within a shot of having all four Final Four teams. BC lost in the Elite Eight but St Johns, Villanova and Georgetown got there. That is how great the real Big East was.
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This is a solid post. I suppose the argument is, we are unlikely to find another JC. He was definitely one of a kind.

Edit: if the standard is, "why aren't we in the Elite 8 after 4 years" then we will be dissapointed with almost anyone we hire.
 
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Psolo12 said:
There are some people in this thread that make it seem like they used to be UConn fans, but aren't anymore. Just appreciate the good season we're having without comparing everything to Calhoun or the Old Big East. My god, it's exhausting.
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Why is it exhausting? It's a point of Reference. If Calhoun had never for 3 titles, then expectations are different. I admit, I didn't follow early days of Calhoun clsoely, but I remember Uconn being really really good in BE play and being a top NCAA seed.

It's the difference between a golfer being pissed they shot an 89 or ecstatic....It's what you expect. People see Dan Hurley is doing a great job motivating and is a top notch recruiter...they just want his game day to be better...which is probably the missing link to where we want him to get.
 
tykurez said:
Does St Johns have fans? Legitimate question - who is their fanbase and where is it geographically?
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'he's as blind as he can be,
just see's what he wants to see..'
 
tykurez said:
Does St Johns have fans? Legitimate question - who is their fanbase and where is it geographically?
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Like most schools, when they win the fans turns out (see late 80s) otherwise it’s base is generally Queens and Long Island. Although it’s campus is much bigger that the 80s it’s still viewed as a commuter university. 15,000 or so students from all over the Tri-state. Only a few thousand on campus. Trust, if St. John’s wins the fans come out in droves.
 
NJHusky said:
Why is it exhausting? It's a point of Reference. If Calhoun had never for 3 titles, then expectations are different. I admit, I didn't follow early days of Calhoun clsoely, but I remember Uconn being really really good in BE play and being a top NCAA seed.

It's the difference between a golfer being pissed they shot an 89 or ecstatic....It's what you expect. People see Dan Hurley is doing a great job motivating and is a top notch recruiter...they just want his game day to be better...which is probably the missing link to where we want him to get.
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Because it's an unrealistic goal, Jim Calhoun is a top 5 college basketball coach of all time. Setting the bar for failure at top 5 coach of all time means that 99% of all coaches aren't going to meet the expectations. There's tons of things Dan Hurley needs to improve on, especially in game stuff like you mentioned. But even if he improves every single one it's very likely he still doesn't come close to Jim Calhoun
 
freescooter said:
Honestly I’m guessing most of you guys didn’t follow UConn in the early Calhoun years. It wasnt until after losing big post season games, particularly Sweet 16 games to Florida and Miss State, that the criticism that he couldn’t win a title started. And nobody ever said his teams were soft. Never, ever. And the lack of offense Claim came much later, too. That was largely a result of a change in his approach after the Maryland and Texas losses. The game at that point was changing to where teams were going bigger. Calhoun even said so himself and started recruiting bigger guys who played a very different style From the 1990-2000 teams. When he had talent like in 2004, they were very good. When it wasn’t as talented, we were merely pretty good to good. People forget that UConn was talking about leaving the original Big East when Calhoun arrived. Within 4 years he had a team playing in the Elite 8. And these were a few of the Big East Coaches when he came to the league: Georgetown John Thompson, Villanova: Rollie Massimino, St Johns Looie Carnesecca, Syracuse Boeheim, Seton Hall PJ Carlisimo, BC Jim O’Brien, Providence Rick Pitino. He had the worst team in the league, and had to Build it against that group. Danny would have run out of the building screaming. Seriously. And it wasn’t a bunch of borderline Top 25 programs either. We are talking perennial top 10 teams. One year, though pre-Calhoun, the Big East came within a shot of having all four Final Four teams. BC lost in the Elite Eight but St Johns, Villanova and Georgetown got there. That is how great the real Big East was.
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' Danny would have run out of the building screaming. Seriously. '
seriously, ur old, and so is ur shtick aboot our conference, this year, as we realistically look forward to 5, or mebbe 7 (!) teams doing the dougie.
1986 called, and sez the flora and fauna of the chernobyl/priapet marsh nuclear disaster, have mostly all come back since then, tho some of those carpathian wolves nosing around there seem unusually large. it also reminded us that msft, first publicly issued back then, is doing fine. the 8-track thing? notsomuch.
what's a soviet onion? how does it taste? did julia child use it in her cooking? no harsh on her-that lady could cook.
coach dan would be kicking butt back then, as he is now.
jimmy was born heaven sent, cuz he's yankee/boston irish. danny was only dropped here on the wings of angels, cuz he's jersey irish, and has sum Connecticut River education to complete before he makes it to full on Husky Irish. he's got hope, and a bonnie resume.
 
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ClifSpliffy said:
' Danny would have run out of the building screaming. Seriously. '
seriously, ur old, and so is ur shtick aboot our conference, this year, as we realistically look forward to 5, or mebbe 7 (!) teams doing the dougie.
1986 called, and sez the flora and fauna of the chernobyl/priapet marsh nuclear disaster, have mostly all come back since then, tho some of those carpathian wolves nosing around there seem unusually large. it also reminded us that msft, first publicly issued back then, is doing fine. the 8-track thing? notsomuch.
what's a soviet onion? how does it taste? did julia child use it in her cooking? no harsh on her-that lady could cook.
coach dan would be kicking butt back then, as he is now.
jimmy was born heaven sent, cuz he's yankee/boston irish. danny was only dropped here on the wings of angels, cuz he's jersey irish, and has sum Connecticut River education to complete before he makes it to full on Husky Irish. he's got hope, and a bonnie resume.
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Winnie the Pooh Reading | Know Your Meme
 
Platt81 said:
I couldn’t agree more. People blasted me for defending Hurley getting a T with three minutes to go and said things like “Calhoun was smarter than to do it in that spot”. Comments like that clearly show they didn’t watch early Calhoun and only remember 99 and on because he was as loose of a cannon as Bobby Knight early on and I see a lot of similarities with Hurley, so if that means Hurley brings us four more national titles I think I’d take that…
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When Calhoun got a technical he was furious. The way he glared at the offending ref left no doubt that he would like to beat the crap out of him right on the spot. When Dan gets a technical sometimes he’s mad and sometimes he’s pouty. It’s different.

As he aged, Calhoun was much more strategic about picking up a T.
 
navery12 said:
Because it's an unrealistic goal, Jim Calhoun is a top 5 college basketball coach of all time. Setting the bar for failure at top 5 coach of all time means that 99% of all coaches aren't going to meet the expectations. There's tons of things Dan Hurley needs to improve on, especially in game stuff like you mentioned. But even if he improves every single one it's very likely he still doesn't come close to Jim Calhoun
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I agree with you on Calhoun....I didn't intend to imply that he had to be a top 5-10 all time coach. The expectation (for me) is that we should be a consistent BE contender and NCAA title contender when we have "that" team. Winning at least 1-2 tourney games most years, while missing the tourney should be an exception.

I don't agree with excusing losses because this player was out, it's only year 4,. Does the win yesterday by a slim margin count less because Posh was out?

I do expect Hurley to be a better in game coach and win more of these close games than he has....and to be less frenetic...sorry but that's my expectation. I may be disappointed. If others' only expectation is be above .500, they won't be disappointed.
 
CL82 said:
When Calhoun got a technical he was furious. The way he glared at the offending ref left no doubt that he would like to beat the crap out of him right on the spot. When Dan gets a technical sometimes he’s mad and sometimes he’s pouty. It’s different.

As he aged, Calhoun was much more strategic about picking up a T.
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I 100% agree with you, and that’s my point all these people saying “Calhoun was calculated” when he would get T’s clearly never saw 40 year old Jim Calhoun. My overall point to it was people like to complain about things Hurley does to “cost the team” without having any insight to the past. They’re the same people that after a 5 game win streak were declaring we’re probably a top ten team..those are two vastly different arguments to have from the same talking head.
 
tykurez said:
Does St Johns have fans? Legitimate question - who is their fanbase and where is it geographically?
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Yes. They have fans all over the New York metro, particularly on Long Island. They have a good following of older guys that went to Catholic school and played in the CYO leagues, city kids from Queens and others. A good St John's team is great for the Big East. It really amps up the feel in the Big East when SJU is good. It would also put more pressure on Cuse.
 
boog204 said:
Here's the thing... For many years, JC got criticism here for being a guy who could recruit but could not win the "big one." He was attacked for his total lack of a half-court offense, an inability to get/use his bigs, rotation issues (Brian Fair would score 20 every time JC was out/ejected) and for his teams being soft.

I actually see a lot of similarities between Hurley and early (86-98) JC. Neither blew you away from a pure Xs and Os standpoint. But they could recruit and they were able to get their teams to play hard. I think Hurley was the perfect hire here and once he gets a better "balanced" team here, I think we will be a consistent power. Our issue now is that we just do not have enough competent guards to play his "offense" which is predicated on guys making plays as opposed to an offense that sets up guys, if that makes sense. The same was true under JC. We relied heavily on star players, notably guards (and Donyell) to just make plays and be the best player(s) on the court.
Expand ...
Calhoun went 16-7 in the NCAAs between 1986 and 1998. Dan Hurley has gone 2-3 in his career in the NCAA tournament
 
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