NPOY 2017 not a lock for Kelsey Plum

[Fairfield Fan]

Not sure if KLS get NPOY, but she has the inside track for member of NC team, and good prospect for NCAA Tournament MVP. That'll do.

 

[CBear01]

Well, if he said it, I hope he was being sarcastic, because it make no sense.

Ok, point understood, but thanks to @Bajan Best we can take a close look at just the last 10 years. Point out the year that you believe there was a better team with a better player on that team. I can't seem to think of any. Even in 2012 when UCONN won the 1st of 4 in a row it was in the shadow of Baylor, the best team that year, and their best player Griner. Here's a look:

2015-16: NPOY - Breanna Stewart 19.4 PPG, NSL - Kelsey Plum 25.9 PPG
2014-15: NPOY - Breanna Stewart 17.6 PPG, NSL - Kelsey Mitchell 24.9 PPG
2013-14: NPOY - Breanna Stewart 19.4 PPG, NSL - Jerica Coley 29.5 PPG
2012-13: NPOY - Brittney Griner 23.8 PPG, NSL - Jerica Coley 26.3 PPG
2011-12: NPOY - Brittney Griner 23.2 PPG, NSL - Elena Delle Donne 28.1 PPG
2010-11: NPOY - Maya Moore 22.8 PPG, NSL - Kevi Luper 23.7 PPG
2009-10: NPOY - Tina Charles 18.2 PPG, NSL - Alysha Clark 28.3 PPG
2008-09: NPOY - Maya Moore 19.3 PPG, NSL - Angel McCoughtry 23.1 PPG
2007-08: NPOY - Candace Parker 21.3 PPG, NSL - Amber Holt 27.4 PPG
2006-07: NPOY - Candace Parker 19.6 PPG, NSL - Carrie Moore 25.4 PPG

Last three years UCONN with best team, Stewie at the helm.

BAYLOR 40 and 0 season, best team, Griner at the helm. Following year the same (save the loss to Louisville). Griner was easily best player on best team.

There isn't even a case when you go back to 07 and 08, Tennessee was a force with Parker. Again, best player on best team.

It should also be noted that these Players of the Year went on to win many championships for their programs that year they won. Not all, but most.

 

[CocoHusky]

POY has seldom if ever gone to the scoring leader in any given year.

Odyssey finished 2nd in scoring in 2014. 2nd in scoring on a good team was enough to get her the Wade (WBCA POY) trophy over Stewie.
Plum is leading the nation by such a significant (+ 6.5 points/game) margin and is also playing on a good team I don't think this vote will be even close.
BTW @Bajan Best math is way off. For KLS to catch Plum in scoring average KLS would have to average close to 40 points/game ( not 30) for the remainder of UCONN season~21 games.

 

[Orangutan]

This is just silly. Yeah, individual honors are nice, but players don't come to UConn for them; they come to win CHAMPIONSHIPS, which are the ultimate Team honor.

People say this as if UConn players don't also win a boatload of individual awards. UConn players are hardly sacrificing individual glory by going to UConn.

Furthermore, I'd argue that what Plum has done in bringing team success to Washington is arguably at least as impressive as what KLS is doing for UConn's team success.

 

[CocoHusky]

Ok, point understood, but thanks to Point out the year that you believe there was a better team with a better player on that team. I can't seem to think of any. [B]Even in 2012 when UCONN won the 1st of 4 in a row [/B]it was in the shadow of Baylor, the best team that year, and their best player Griner.

UCONN's first of 4 was in 2013.
If that is the exercise then I'd like to point out these some of which have already been mentioned.
[LIST]
[*]2014 Odssey won WBCA POY Wade trophy over Stewie.
[*]2012 & 2013 there was no better college player on the planet than EDD.
[*]2010 Tina Charles won over Maya Moore the POY the prior year.
[*]2007 Lindsey Harding won Naismith over Candace Parker.
[/LIST]
So that is at least 5 discrepancies in 10 years that I can think off.

 

[CBear01]

UCONN's first of 4 was in 2013.
If that is the exercise then I'd like to point out these some of which have already been mentioned.
[LIST]
[*]2014 Odssey won WBCA POY Wade trophy over Stewie.
[*]2012 & 2013 there was no better college player on the planet than EDD.
[*]2010 Tina Charles won over Maya Moore the POY the prior year.
[*]2007 Lindsey Harding won Naismith over Candace Parker.
[/LIST]
So that is at least 5 discrepancies in 10 years that I can think off.

This is good stuff Coco! When I said 12 I meant the 12-13 season when we won the first of 4, Baylor was def the team to beat that year (after running the table the year b4) and Griner was a senior right? Glad we won that year and glad Griner was recognized again (she would have won more times had she developed more quickly)

I like that you add in about Odyssey. She's no Stewie but man did she have a great senior year, and very very strong years b4 that. One of the few Baylor players I loved watching

Not sure if I agree about EDD...over Griner?

 

[meyers7]

Katie Lou currently is the leader in Boneyard Badass Awards

Exactly. And how many has Plum won? That's right, a big fat 0. So, there it is.

 

[reno tony]

Sounds like everyone on the BY is in agreement...... NPOY goes to a Husky!

 

[BroadwayVa]

Well, if he said it, I hope he was being sarcastic, because it make no sense.

But there is an implied bias in the comment. And Geno is not in favor of biases.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Sounds like everyone on the BY is in agreement. NPOY goes to a Husky!

From the above, not everyone agrees--quite a few see Plum--as a Cajun said--in his heart it's kLS
for me that too is true. But some from a logical/less than factual point of view see Plum
The author of this thread--had facts to make one believe it could not be Plum
Another poster requested to know which NpoY was being discussed--true statement--
I go with the heart--since that is always with a Husky--I'll believe the opposite when/if it happens.
So many have been fooled by polls this year--so i await the final results.

 

[BigBird]

Consider media influence, my friends. The same people who constantly proffer the "who can please beat UConn" drumbeat are going to ensure that somebody else, anybody else, gets the bouquet when it comes to individual awards that the media CAN partially or wholly control. With every UConn win, it increases the "pressure" for those outside our fanbase to push back. It is dumb. It is also real.

 

[Bajan Best]

Wow stepped out for the afternoon and just got back in, I believe the info was from The Naismith listing.. I will double check and add the Wade listing as well, as soon as I can for reference..

It is not my job to make anyone believe anything, Just wanted to illustrate what history has shown us..

And to the Quote "The Best Player on the Best team" it was Geno who mentioned that a few years back, when he was arguing why one of his Players should win the award.. He also talked about the fact that his players don't play as many minutes per game due to the scoring differential in UCONN games vs. that of some other teams, who's players might garnish more minutes, therefore accruing lofty numbers.. and therefore not a true reflection of the value of a player..

 

[Plebe]

Nothing is a lock at this point in the season, but Kelsey Plum is about as close to a lock for NPOY as one could be in January without being on the #1 team in the country.

Last year she was robbed, IMO, when she was named only to 3rd team AA. This was Tara VanDerveer's take at the time:

Speaking of which, VanDerveer is still chagrined that the Pac-12 doesn’t get enough credit, although she hopes that having Oregon State and Washington reach the Final Four might change people’s perceptions.

She was miffed that the Huskies’ Kelsey Plum was only a third-team AP All-American. “You can’t guard her,” VanDerveer said. “They just don’t understand West Coast basketball.”

Despite being the top conference in collective RPI, the Pac-12 “just doesn’t have much credibility,” she said. During the season, she heard ESPN analyst Carolyn Peck say, “The Pac-12’s got the best RPI, but I don’t believe that. I go by the eye test.”​

 

[Bigboote]

Am I the only one who considers that Lou night not even be the MVP of UConn? If she keeps up what she's been doing the last couple of games, quite likely, but so far I'd give the UConn MVP to Gabby.

I've said before about Plum, she's not only leading the nation in scoring by a considerable margin, she's also shooting 53% from the floor, 43% from behind the arc, she may have the first-ever NCAAW 50-40-90 season, and she averages 5+ assists a game. She has an assist-turnover ratio of 2, with the ball in her hands most of the time. She's not just leading the nation in scoring, she's having what may be a historic year.

 

[Bajan Best]

2015-16: NS-NPOY - Breanna Stewart 19.4 PPG, NSL - Kelsey Plum 25.9 PPG, Wade Trophy - Breanna Stewart
2014-15: NS-NPOY - Breanna Stewart 17.6 PPG, NSL - Kelsey Mitchell 24.9 PPG, Wade Trophy - Breanna Stewart
2013-14: NS-NPOY - Breanna Stewart 19.4 PPG, NSL - Jerica Coley 29.5 PPG, Wade Trophy - Odyssey Sims 28.5
2012-13: NS-NPOY - Brittney Griner 23.8 PPG, NSL - Jerica Coley 26.3 PPG, Wade Trophy - Brittney Griner
2011-12: NS-NPOY - Brittney Griner 23.2 PPG, NSL - Elena Delle Donne 28.1 PPG, Wade Trophy - Brittney Griner
2010-11: NS-NPOY - Maya Moore 22.8 PPG, NSL - Kevi Luper 23.7 PPG, Wade Trophy - Maya Moore
2009-10: NS-NPOY - Tina Charles 18.2 PPG, NSL - Alysha Clark 28.3 PPG, Wade Trophy - Maya Moore 18.9
2008-09: NS-NPOY - Maya Moore 19.3 PPG, NSL - Angel McCoughtry 23.1 PPG, Wade Trophy - Maya Moore
2007-08: NS-NPOY - Candace Parker 21.3 PPG, NSL - Amber Holt 27.4 PPG, Wade Trophy - Candice Wiggins 20.2
2006-07: NS-NPOY - Lindsey Harding 13.6 PPG, NSL - Carrie Moore 25.4 PPG, Wade Trophy - Candace Parker 19.6

Wade trophy in 39 years.. 29 Seniors, 9 Juniors and 1 Sophomore has won the award

 

[Vowelguy]

Nothing is a lock at this point in the season, but Kelsey Plum is about as close to a lock for NPOY as one could be in January without being on the #1 team in the country.

+1000000

 

[reno tony]

From the above, not everyone agrees--quite a few see Plum--as a Cajun said--in his heart it's kLS
for me that too is true. But some from a logical/less than factual point of view see Plum
The author of this thread--had facts to make one believe it could not be Plum
Another poster requested to know which NpoY was being discussed--true statement--
I go with the heart--since that is always with a Husky--I'll believe the opposite when/if it happens.
So many have been fooled by polls this year--so i await the final results.

Some people are forgetting Plum is also a Husky...... a Washington Husky.

 

[Bajan Best]

There are at least 2 NPOY awards -Wade & Naismith. This presents the possibility of a split NPOY which last happened in 2014 when Stewie took the Naismith and Odyssey took the Wade. Another example and contradictory to your prior post is that Lindsey Harding won the Naismith in 2007 NOT Parker. Please clarify which POY you think Plum is NOT going to win.

Actually the following were all NPOY awards at one time or the other:
Naismith Trophy - Wade Trophy - AP Player of the Year - USBWA Player of the Year - Wooden Award

And thanks I did update the listing to reflect Lindsay Harding as the correct winner in 2007, received bad info from another site, as well as included the corresponding Wade Trophy winners...

Finally my reference on Plum not winning is based on a comment made by another poster, which stated IF Katie Lou were to score 30 or more points going forward.. Which is highly unlikely as far as I'm concerned not even Plum will do that, but if it did happen my money is on Katie Lou for any of those awards because that in itself would simply be amazing..

 

[BroadwayVa]

Some people are forgetting Plum is also a Husky. a Washington Husky.

But in recent times and into the near future--it is only the Husky from Connecticut that attends the NC/Final 4 games. She is fun to watch--and a heck of a shooter. Her big, injured, friend is also fun to watch--much like Kallie McClaren.

 

[Bajan Best]

Odyssey finished 2nd in scoring in 2014. 2nd in scoring on a good team was enough to get her the Wade (WBCA POY) trophy over Stewie.
Plum is leading the nation by such a significant (+ 6.5 points/game) margin and is also playing on a good team I don't think this vote will be even close.
BTW @Bajan Best math is way off. For KLS to catch Plum in scoring average KLS would have to average close to 40 points/game ( not 30) for the remainder of UCONN season~21 games.

My statement has nothing to do with catching her scoring average.. as that is not the determining factor as to who wins the award.. It typically goes to the best players on a team going somewhere, not just the best scorer.. so matching her points per game is not necessary to win..

 

[reno tony]

But in recent times and into the near future--it is only the Husky from Connecticut that attends the NC/Final 4 games. She is fun to watch--and a heck of a shooter. Her big, injured, friend is also fun to watch--much like Kallie McClaren.

I agree, well, about the "heck of a shooter" part because I watched her during last year's Final Four. Maybe they will get another shot at a Husky - Husky Final this year.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I'm pretty sure that the best player on the best team is not an explicit criterion, though some do think along those lines. There have been many years when the best team was in fact the best team because it had the best player. That logic makes sense. In 2 of the years cited by Nan and Bajan, the leading scorer wasn't the best player--Angel and EDD--but they were probably the second best players. In other years, the leading scorer wasn't even a top-10 player.

I think that Kelsey Plum is the clear leader. Why? Her scoring is obviously a consideration, but not a guarantee. Scoring loads of points and also shooting .500, .400, and .900 is rare and noteworthy. She is carrying her team to a high national ranking. Plus, she is approaching the all-time (under NCAA) scoring record. That's a very impressive resume.

I was the one, in anther thread, who was speculating as to what would have to happen for Plum not to win. I think it would take a number of things. First, Kelsey would have to miss several games (God forbid!) or have a substantial slump. Another possibility would be for Washington to lose several games and drop in the rankings. Beyond that, someone else would need to make a big splash in some way. I am the one who said that, if Lou scores 30 pp. from here out, she will get consideration. I still expect Kelsey to win, but there are possible scenarios under which someone else does. Lou is playing her way to be very high in the NPOY voting, possibly #2.

 

[Los24]

Am I the only one who considers that Lou night not even be the MVP of UConn? If she keeps up what she's been doing the last couple of games, quite likely, but so far I'd give the UConn MVP to Gabby.

I've said before about Plum, she's not only leading the nation in scoring by a considerable margin, she's also shooting 53% from the floor, 43% from behind the arc, she may have the first-ever NCAAW 50-40-90 season, and she averages 5+ assists a game. She has an assist-turnover ratio of 2, with the ball in her hands most of the time. She's not just leading the nation in scoring, she's having what may be a historic year.

If your starting a team who do you pick Gabby or Lou? Might take Pheese second to be honest. Just me but thought I would ask to make folks really think about it if you could only take one....

 

[mntncougar]

I suspect that as things stand Plum will win without much trouble, much as I love how Lou is stepping up and has improved her game. I can't say I will feel terrible about it because Plum has the stats and credentials, and regardless of how you think her team is helping her by shamelessly showcasing her it is impossible to deny she does have very good game.
But I must pose one question: what if UCONN faces Washington in the FF, destroys them and buries Plum in the process, while KLS carries our team? What then? Or is it too late then?