Now that Christmas is over....

[Exit 4]

This seems like a bigger stretch than the best coaches in the country misevaluating their own rosters so badly that only 2 of UConn’s NFL players would have been on their two-deep?

I don’t think it’s a stretch at all. This situation is most evident when a starter goes down for the season via injury and three games later everyone views the replacement as better than the original starter. So, when that happens did the coach mismanage his roster? Yes, by your definition. The reality is no one really knew what would happen until the staff was forced which in turn allowed the replacement to finish his development and evolve into the better player. Not all players get better with reps, but virtually every Uconn NFL bound player needed a ton or reps to get NFL ready.

Top programs don’t take kids that will need three years as starter to become NFL worthy. They move on to the next four or five star toy that walks in every July.

 

[Hornet22]

The coaches at top 10 schools are too stupid to play the best players on their roster.

Another interesting angle.

Interesting article I came across.
It’s not as easy as you think. And these guys have to work to convince a top level guy to come and sit. There is no way that all these guys are playing meaningful minutes at these programs. It’s just a numbers game. And if you buy what they’re selling, God bless ya. I don’t want to sit the pine at Alabama just because Saban is telling me it’s best for me for NFL purposes. It’s a sales pitch so they can have competitive practices to help the cream that rises to the top. But trust and believe there are NFL potential guys on that bench that rarely see the field

How programs convince elite recruits to sit bench

 

[Hornet22]

“

Interesting article I came across.
It’s not as easy as you think. And these guys have to work to convince a top level guy to come and sit. There is no way that all these guys are playing meaningful minutes at these programs. It’s just a numbers game. And if you buy what they’re selling, God bless ya. I don’t want to sit the pine at Alabama just because Saban is telling me it’s best for me for NFL purposes. It’s a sales pitch so they can have competitive practices to help the cream that rises to the top. But trust and believe there are NFL potential guys on that bench that rarely see the field

How programs convince elite recruits to sit bench

Jeremiah went more in-depth on the process with fellow former Seahawksand Panthers scout Bucky Brooks on their CFB 24/7 podcast recently,expounding on the method to the madness of trying to land on a grade. "A lot of times when we'd get a discussion on a player," he said, "we would go up to the whiteboard, go around the room and say, okay, 'Which games did you watch? Which games did you watch?' Then literally, the director in the room would be like, ‘Okay, Bucky, why don't you go watch these four late-season games, D.J., you need to go watch these three games you missed early in the year. Let's come back together and see if we can't figure this guy out. We got to get him right, we got to get him where he belongs."

YOU NEED TO PLAY IN GAMES!
If a coach is trying to sell me on making it to the league despite much playing time I’m not buying. He’s only recruiting me for practice depth. Not saying it’s impossible to make it. But again, UConn had 90 scouts come through the facility. If I’m getting playing time and leaving my mark on the field at the FBS Level then I’m in a good spot.

 

[Hornet22]

Let’s say they have 15? 2 redshirt, 1 is hurt - maybe 12 are available Saturday.

They play 7-8 in a close conference game. 10 in one of their constant blowouts.

They also give you 5 years to play 4.

They also have a pro workout days and they give camp invites to anyone willing to play tackling dummy.

Why don’t these NFL caliber bench warmers transfer? Why is the transfer market jammed up with Tre Bell and not NFL McFourstar.

You know how many players transfer from the big schools? Maybe you don’t pay attention. There are a handful of them that play meaningless minutes and probably regret going to said school.

 

[Hornet22]

I have not watched every senior tape....but I like Morrison to be an impact athlete in the secondary and I also like Paul as a surprise at Cb. I like Travis Jones, Uguak and Kevon Jones to be plus level players overall. I worry that Webb might have dominated inferior completion, but we’ll see.

Elsewhere I think Jeffreys has surprising athletism, maursseau has some fine route running ability. Nyadu - love his tape and the level of kids he was playing. Neiwdowski (sp) has real potential to be good.

But circling back to the NFL question, I like Morrison on defense and Nyadu on offense as possible NFL players with second/third choices being T. jones or Uguak on D and neidrowski / Krajewski on offense.

I probably forgot someone, that’s my thinking on the fly.

I wouldn’t sleep on any of these 19 guys. Remember, RE evaluated them and brought them in because he believes they can be coached.
All of these guys showed something that lends one to believe if they continue to progress and accept the coaching they can be darn good. Especially the secondary.

 

[Hornet22]

“More important than that, though, is how well a prospect actually plays his position. This is the nuance of tape analysis, learning how a player moves, how he recognizes defensive/offensive schemes, and how skilled he is on the field. This is huge part of the scouting process and the inordinate amount of time that goes into it. The ironic part about scouting though, is that while game-tape analysis is one of the most important components of a report, it's ultimately the easy part.”

Sorry guys. Can’t be in this category if you’re riding the pine at Bama. No way.
Tough to get to the league from the sidelines fellas. And as for garbage time, that’s not good enough. You need lots of meaningful minutes to develop a true draft grade.
Not sure how something as Simple as this escapes some of you here?
Yes, being on the field at UConn is WAY better than fighting for playing time and getting some minutes at Bama. I wouldnt advocate going to Sacred Heart over Bama for the sake of playing time but playing time at UConn (FBS) is so valuable. Believe me, if I’m a corner and I have good measurables and I’m balling out against Boise, Syracuse, UCF, Memphis, Indiana, Illinois, etc. I’m in a VERY GOOD SPOT and I’m developing a draft grade.

 

[whaler11]

Top programs don’t take kids that will need three years as starter to become NFL worthy.

Which is why this is a giant strawman these two have created to burn down. These players don’t exist.

 

[Hornet22]

I don’t think it’s a stretch at all. This situation is most evident when a starter goes down for the season via injury and three games later everyone views the replacement as better than the original starter. So, when that happens did the coach mismanage his roster? Yes, by your definition. The reality is no one really knew what would happen until the staff was forced which in turn allowed the replacement to finish his development and evolve into the better player. Not all players get better with reps, but virtually every Uconn NFL bound player needed a ton or reps to get NFL ready.

Top programs don’t take kids that will need three years as starter to become NFL worthy. They move on to the next four or five star toy that walks in every July.

Exit 4. I guess you don’t quite understand the point either with your last paragraph. I NEVER said top programs are taking guys who can’t make it to the NFL. I simply said that those programs get guys who are NFL caliber yet never see meaningful time because those programs are loaded with players like that. Which is why the statement was made that some of those guys are better served going to an FBS where they can play rather than just going to a top FBS to sit the pine or maybe wait two to three years to finally get a chance. But you’re asking a lot of a five star guy to be patient and focused and determined enough to stay the course. What usually happens is hose guys either quit, transfer or get in trouble because their egos are bruised.

Geez. It’s a numbers game. Everyone at a school like that doesn’t get to play like they thought they would because you can only travel with so many guys.

 

[kemba]

If a player is getting recruited by Alabama, they are getting recruited by loads of other elite programs and power five schools. If Bama's depth chart seems to daunting they can go to Georgia or Michigan. If those don't seem like good situations the can go to a mid level power five school. If all these top programs think they can play, nobody is saying wow Im not going to play there lets go to UConn. If you can't get on the field at any power five school you weren't an nfl player.

 

[Exit 4]

Which is why this is a giant strawman these two have created to burn down. These players don’t exist.

You haven’t refuted my point, that virtually none of Uconn’s NFL level players came in as such and all of them needed copious amounts of playing time to develop. It’s that simple. There is nothing strawman about that which is pretty plain to the eyes. Therefore the argument is the same one had since the birth of scholarship football, play at the highest level you can and fight for snaps (and take a chance you are overlooked!) or play a notch or two down and plan to get most of the snaps. Most choose the former of course for many reasons already discussed, but there is merit to the latter.

 

[Exit 4]

Exit 4. I guess you don’t quite understand the point either with your last paragraph. I NEVER said top programs are taking guys who can’t make it to the NFL. I simply said that those programs get guys who are NFL caliber yet never see meaningful time because those programs are loaded with players like that. Which is why the statement was made that some of those guys are better served going to an FBS where they can play rather than just going to a top FBS to sit the pine or maybe wait two to three years to finally get a chance. But you’re asking a lot of a five star guy to be patient and focused and determined enough to stay the course. What usually happens is hose guys either quit, transfer or get in trouble because their egos are bruised.

Geez. It’s a numbers game. Everyone at a school like that doesn’t get to play like they thought they would because you can only travel with so many guys.

I don’t think I have missed any of your points- just have my own points.

 

[whaler11]

You haven’t refuted my point, that virtually none of Uconn’s NFL level players came in as such and all of them needed copious amounts of playing time to develop. It’s that simple. There is nothing strawman about that which is pretty plain to the eyes. Therefore the argument is the same one had since the birth of scholarship football, play at the highest level you can and fight for snaps (and take a chance you are overlooked!) or play a notch or two down and plan to get most of the snaps. Most choose the former of course for many reasons already discussed, but there is merit to the latter.

For the love of pete. The strawman is that these players would be buried on a high level P5 bench.

Nick Williams wasn’t picking between LSU and UConn.

 

[Hornet22]

If I’m a scout at the Ravens and we’re in our war room going over draftable players. Again, we’re looking for CB. You have a talented guy at Bama who drank the coolaid and is in his junior year but hasn’t really seen the field. He’s waiting for his shot. But again, he believes because he’s at Bama that riding the bench is still good enough to make it because of the name brand and the level of coaching etc. Now take a guy from UConn who was a legit 3 star guy that decided that he wanted to play and knew he could come and start based on our roster. Following me so far?
Now the UConn guy who spurned Bama is doing really well as he should because he was a legit top level prospect playing in a G5 conference with some decent out of conference FBS opponents on the schedule.
Now when the Ravens meet and they need a corner who the heck do you think will have more to evaluate? What will jump out is the guy from UConn because he actually has film to watch and evaluate. The guy riding the pine will be at the bottom of the pile because how can they determine how effective of a player he can be on an NFL field by simply saying, “But he’s at Bama fellas.”
If I’m a 3 star guy Bama will sign me because they need competive bodies. But I may not necessarily want to take that deal as the 3 star player because it’s all about playing time and that will be tough sledding.

 

[whaler11]

If I’m a scout at the Ravens and we’re in our war room going over draftable players. Again, we’re looking for CB. You have a talented guy at Bama who drank the coolaid and is in his junior year but hasn’t really seen the field. He’s waiting for his shot. But again, he believes because he’s at Bama that riding the bench is still good enough to make it because of the name brand and the level of coaching etc. Now take a guy from UConn who was a legit 3 star guy that decided that he wanted to play and knew he could come and start based on our roster. Following me so far?
Now the UConn guy who spurned Bama is doing really well as he should because he was a legit top level prospect playing in a G5 conference with some decent out of conference FBS opponents on the schedule.
Now when the Ravens meet and they need a corner who the heck do you think will have more to evaluate? What will jump out is the guy from UConn because he actually has film to watch and evaluate. The guy riding the pine will be at the bottom of the pile because how can they determine how effective of a player he can be on an NFL field by simply saying, “But he’s at Bama fellas.”
If I’m a 3 star guy Bama will sign me because they need competive bodies. But I may not necessarily want to take that deal as the 3 star player because it’s all about playing time and that will be tough sledding.

Sure this was all proven 100% fantasy by Wing yesterday but keep saying it.

Nobody picks between Alabama and G5. This is so ridiculous it’s painful.

 

[Hornet22]

You haven’t refuted my point, that virtually none of Uconn’s NFL level players came in as such and all of them needed copious amounts of playing time to develop. It’s that simple. There is nothing strawman about that which is pretty plain to the eyes. Therefore the argument is the same one had since the birth of scholarship football, play at the highest level you can and fight for snaps (and take a chance you are overlooked!) or play a notch or two down and plan to get most of the snaps. Most choose the former of course for many reasons already discussed, but there is merit to the latter.

Exit 4!!!! Eureka!!!! That has been my point all along. I know what the most popular choice is. Doesn’t take a dummy to figure that out. But yes! There is merit to the latter. That’s all I’ve been saying.

 

[Exit 4]

If a player is getting recruited by Alabama, they are getting recruited by loads of other elite programs and power five schools. If Bama's depth chart seems to daunting they can go to Georgia or Michigan. If those don't seem like good situations the can go to a mid level power five school. If all these top programs think they can play, nobody is saying wow Im not going to play there lets go to UConn. If you can't get on the field at any power five school you weren't an nfl player.

The argument to me is about snaps. Plenty of four star kids at top 10 programs could have increased their NFL odds by transferring a notch down (say Clemson to West Virgina) to get more snaps which allows for needed development and screen time. To me there is nothing more complicated about this. At bama, you might be a 5th round level talent, but there are two players in front of you with 1st and 3rd round talent and so your snaps are limited and you never develop.

 

[Exit 4]

Exit 4!!!! Eureka!!!! That has been my point all along. I know what the most popular choice is. Doesn’t take a dummy to figure that out. But yes! There is merit to the latter. That’s all I’ve been saying.

Hornett22, you appear to be new around here, but this is a conversation that has been had many times before over the years during recruiting season.

 

[Exit 4]

For the love of pete. The strawman is that these players would be buried on a high level P5 bench.

Nick Williams wasn’t picking between LSU and UConn.

Of course Nick wasn’t. He needed time to develop and play and then he improved to become NFL level talent. Meanwhile that four star kid could never could get past the 1 and 3rd round picks in front of him at his position and hence never makes it to the NFL. The point here is a lot of talent from high school fails to develop because of the numbers game on any given roster. Those kids should have played down a notch. Of course, we are taking about Bama kids that should have played at miss st. For Uconn, it’s about Maryland and Rutty kids that should have played at Uconn.

 

[Hornet22]

Sure this was all proven 100% fantasy by Wing yesterday but keep saying it.

Nobody picks between Alabama and G5. This is so ridiculous it’s painful.

Ha! I’m a basketball guy by trade and what you don’t realize is it happened with college basketball and will continue and eventually spill in to football. How do you think the likes of Wichita State, Butler and a host of mid majors started getting good? Because players were getting tired of sitting the bench at the Kentucky’s and Dukes and once George Mason made some noise in the tournament years back and even Butler (throw in VCU) then the tide started to slowly turn. High level Prospects started looking for rosters where they could actually see the floor and knew full well that they could make it to the League anyways.
So keep thinking this was a straw man blah blah blah.
Basketball proved it makes sense in a lot of cases. Football will come next.
Antonio Gibson from Memphis. Look at his offer sheet. Two SEC schools on it.
Troy Hurst turned down Missouri in the SEC that has arguable the best offense in the country to go to Memphis.
Kenny Gainwell from Memphis turned down Ole Miss
Ever heard of Ed Oliver? Houston Cougars. No 6th ranked prospect in the country in 2016 turned down everyone to go to Houston.
Please. Do yourself a favor and check the last few classes for G5’s and check their offer sheets.
You guys are clueless

 

[whaler11]

Ha! I’m a basketball guy by trade and what you don’t realize is it happened with college basketball and will continue and eventually spill in to football. How do you think the likes of Wichita State, Butler and a host of mid majors started getting good? Because players were getting tired of sitting the bench at the Kentucky’s and Dukes and once George Mason made some noise in the tournament years back and even Butler (throw in VCU) then the tide started to slowly turn. High level Prospects started looking for rosters where they could actually see the floor and knew full well that they could make it to the League anyways.
So keep thinking this was a straw man blah blah blah.
Basketball proved it makes sense in a lot of cases. Football will come next.
Antonio Gibson from Memphis. Look at his offer sheet. Two SEC schools on it.
Troy Hurst turned down Missouri in the SEC that has arguable the best offense in the country to go to Memphis.
Kenny Gainwell from Memphis turned down Ole Miss
Ever heard of Ed Oliver? Houston Cougars. No 6th ranked prospect in the country in 2016 turned down everyone to go to Houston.
Please. Do yourself a favor and check the last few classes for G5’s and check their offer sheets.
You guys are clueless

Do you even read the posts. I mentioned Ed Oliver 5 pages ago.

Fine - what you want to happen and what you think is best is going to happen.

If you are a basketball guy tell me some more how the best recruits don’t all go to the same handful of schools and instead choose George Mason? What planet do you live on?

 

[Hornet22]

Hornett22, you appear to be new around here, but this is a conversation that has been had many times before over the years during recruiting season.

Haha
Add me to the list.
Oh well, it’s a slow day at work for me anyways so his is a good, albeit hamster in the wheel distraction.

 

[Hornet22]

Do you even read the posts. I mentioned Ed Oliver 5 pages ago.

Fine - what you want to happen and what you think is best is going to happen.

If you are a basketball guy tell me some more how the best recruits don’t all go to the same handful of schools and instead choose George Mason? What planet do you live on?

Nope Whaler. The best recruits aren’t going to George Mason
But the really good ones that could have gone to Duke or Kansas or maybe even Kentucky are opting to go to the Wichita States. That I know for sure.
And I fail to read some of your posts because you clearly don’t read and understand. You simply talk.
What sport did you play in college if I may ask?

 

[Stainmaster]

Nope Whaler. The best recruits aren’t going to George Mason
But the really good ones that could have gone to Duke or Kansas or maybe even Kentucky are opting to go to the Wichita States. That I know for sure.
And I fail to read some of your posts because you clearly don’t read and understand. You simply talk.
What sport did you play in college if I may ask?

No they aren't. That's complete horse hockey.

This past year, Wichita State started competing with lower-level P5s. That's been their upper limit.

You're just making things up.

 

[Pudge]

Nick Williams from East Brunswick, NJ wasn’t going to Alabama. Not recruiting him. In fact, they play 10 seconds of his film. That’s it.

The age old debate - Hornet - is that UConn can go into Ohio, Georgia, Virginia and get 4Star or even 3 Star. Over other P5 Offers. My minority monotony is between Greater NYC then Upstate NY then Eastern Canada then MA then our State CT (including the recently more productive Prep), UConn can evaluate better ... and grab better talent than the last 7 years. Three Stars. Faster stronger more capacity to develop. That’s the core of our Program recruiting. Kendall Reyes Ryan Griffin grabs. That’s HCRE first 14 months.

Later. We win Genuine Three Stars and maybe an odd Four Star. In Maryland and Pennsylvania and Virginia. I guarantee you Terry Richardson will repeat his success in South Florida.

In 3 years, we will have a 4 solid deep RB position; far better OLine with 2-3 backups ready to step up; and speed at CB and DE; and 6 guys at LB that run and hit. That turns a 3-9 to Bowls then competing for AAC championships.

Piping up that our guys don’t have P5 Offers misses the surprising history of 2003-2009. And about 30 extraordinary stories.

 

[whaler11]

Nope Whaler. The best recruits aren’t going to George Mason
But the really good ones that could have gone to Duke or Kansas or maybe even Kentucky are opting to go to the Wichita States. That I know for sure.
And I fail to read some of your posts because you clearly don’t read and understand. You simply talk.
What sport did you play in college if I may ask?

LOL at needing to play a sport in college to see where recruits go.

2018 Top Basketball Recruits

Who is making things up? Let me know who picked someplace like Wichita State over someplace like Duke.

One kid from St Louis picked St Louis. One kid went with his dad to Northern Iowa.

One kid picked Rhode Island, one UConn and one Princeton.

Everyone else is going to a P5 or Big East school.

So much for what you ‘know for sure’.