Notre Dame in 2012-13. | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Notre Dame in 2012-13.

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speedoo said:
I don't know how she does it but Mallory is a great defender. They will definitely miss her.
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Strong, and with the specific gravity of plutonium. Did you see her after the big collision? She got up, smiled, and said no biggie.
 
Suebird10fan said:
Ok Doggy, let's try it this way. What teams outside of my top six will have a top three that can compare with Diggins, McBride and Lloyd?

And are Achonwa, Wright and Miller (let's say) significantly weaker than Tennessee's three through six? Or Kentucky's? Or whoever else you want to propose?
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Losing 5 Srs/Grad Students, all starting at the end of this season. I can't imagine TN being much of a threat next year, particularly if they are still in a coaching quandry.

Delaware should be stronger next year with EDD and most of this year's minutes returning.
 
Suebird10fan said:
Ok Doggy, let's try it this way. What teams outside of my top six will have a top three that can compare with Diggins, McBride and Lloyd?

And are Achonwa, Wright and Miller (let's say) significantly weaker than Tennessee's three through six? Or Kentucky's? Or whoever else you want to propose?
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Diggins is a 1st team AA, so she does tilt things in ND's favor. And McBride is a terrific player. Loyd? (1 L) I have not seen her, but everything I read says she is a special talent. I agreed earlier that this would be a top 5 back court.

But this front line is weak. Achowa was very unimpressive to me this season. She had some good games, but I only see a solid backup who will be starting now. Miller graduates this year. So you really only have Wright as a returning player with any kind of minutes in the front court and that was only 10 minutes a game of very medicre basketball.

So, no, I don't think that their players other than their 3 very good players are as good 4-10 as the most of the top 25 teams. And I don't think that will carry them into the top 10.
 
Notre Dame obviously won't be an elite team, but they could easily still be among the top 8 teams in the country and Final Four contender. They will be undersized, but the size issue gets overrated. Just as some overestimated how much UConn's lack of size would be a factor.

Irregardless of the merits of the hype Diggins is a great player, and great players often taken it up another notch in their senior years. Achonwa is better than some are giving her credit for, and gives them scoring in the post. McBride has shown she has the ability to take on a bigger role. Those 3 are a strong core to build around that all bring unique contributions to balance each other. Lloyd should be able to at least add some additional scoring punch, and Michaela Mabrey is a shooter and should be able to contribute as a freshman guard as well. That's enough offense to let Turner and the two young posts play as defensive role players. An injury could be devastating, but McGraw can build a solid 7 player rotation and in almost every matchup she will have the best player. At this point I like Notre Dame chances slightly better than Stanford's next year.
 
Suebird10fan said:
Ok Doggy, let's try it this way. What teams outside of my top six will have a top three that can compare with Diggins, McBride and Lloyd?

And are Achonwa, Wright and Miller (let's say) significantly weaker than Tennessee's three through six? Or Kentucky's? Or whoever else you want to propose?
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When I made the post you quoted, I wasn't really thinking literally in terms of "are there more than four specific teams next year that I think will be better than ND?" Rather, it was more in terms of the abstract concept of what a top five team should be. And that lineup for ND doesn't pass the eyeball test to me. Mallory, Novosel, and Peters, for all the headlines Skylar gets, are a uniquely talented and experienced set of players who have been playing together for what seems like forever. Jewell Loyd could well be better than any of them when all is said and done, but she's not going to be as a freshman. For that matter, ND has to hope that everyone not named Mcbride or Diggins can step up and fill a massive void left by an established group of proven veterans with no empirical evidence that they can. Skylar, meanwhile, will have a very different role on the team. She's always had kids ahead of her to play with. She may have been the PG, but now she really has to be a leader and a mentor...all the while trying to run the offense AND being the primary scorer. That's a lot to ask of someone, no matter how good she is.

Add all of that up, and that just doesn't meet my abstract conception of what a top five team should look like.
 
Doggy you could say exactly the same thing (switching bcourt for court) about Stanford this yr but they're gonna get a one seed.
 
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Scotter said:
Notre Dame obviously won't be an elite team, but they could easily still be among the top 8 teams in the country and Final Four contender. They will be undersized, but the size issue gets overrated. Just as some overestimated how much UConn's lack of size would be a factor.

Irregardless of the merits of the hype Diggins is a great player, and great players often taken it up another notch in their senior years. Achonwa is better than some are giving her credit for, and gives them scoring in the post. McBride has shown she has the ability to take on a bigger role. Those 3 are a strong core to build around that all bring unique contributions to balance each other. Lloyd should be able to at least add some additional scoring punch, and Michaela Mabrey is a shooter and should be able to contribute as a freshman guard as well. That's enough offense to let Turner and the two young posts play as defensive role players. An injury could be devastating, but McGraw can build a solid 7 player rotation and in almost every matchup she will have the best player. At this point I like Notre Dame chances slightly better than Stanford's next year.
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I'm not seeing it with Achonwa. She impressed me as a frosh, but I expected to take a leap forward. I thought she was pretty mediocre and inconsistent against elite competition as a soph. Barring an impressive leap forward as a junior, I can't fathom how she can fill in for the two-time BE DPOY and one of the emotional leaders of the Fighting Irish. And who's behind her? I agree that talent trumps traditional sizes/positions, but that implies you have elite talent. Who can provide some frontcourt depth for them?
 
Alex I hear what you are saying but CAN you name any team aside from CT baylor MD duke and stfd that you expect to be better than ND?
 
Scotter said:
Notre Dame obviously won't be an elite team, but they could easily still be among the top 8 teams in the country and Final Four contender. They will be undersized, but the size issue gets overrated. Just as some overestimated how much UConn's lack of size would be a factor.

Irregardless of the merits of the hype Diggins is a great player, and great players often taken it up another notch in their senior years. Achonwa is better than some are giving her credit for, and gives them scoring in the post. McBride has shown she has the ability to take on a bigger role. Those 3 are a strong core to build around that all bring unique contributions to balance each other. Lloyd should be able to at least add some additional scoring punch, and Michaela Mabrey is a shooter and should be able to contribute as a freshman guard as well. That's enough offense to let Turner and the two young posts play as defensive role players. An injury could be devastating, but McGraw can build a solid 7 player rotation and in almost every matchup she will have the best player. At this point I like Notre Dame chances slightly better than Stanford's next year.
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So, what is the 7 player rotation?

Diggins (5'9"), McBride (5'11"), Loyd (5'9"), Ochowa (6'3"), Turner (5'8"), Wright (6'2") and Cabel (5'11").

This is an incredibly weak team on the boards.

We will just have to disagree about Achowa. If she was that good, she would have gotten more than 14 minutes a game. Can she handle 25-30? I don't think so. She is very foul prone.

Wright played very limited minutes this year. And not very productive when she did play.

Mabrey will be the 3rd or 4th guard and if she is in, Loyd or Diggins are on the bench. Big drop in play.

Loyd (one L) is a terrific player from what I read. But still a freshman and no Lewis in 1st year impact.

After the top 3-4 players, ND next year will have the talent level equivalent of the bottom 4 on the UConn bench. Nice players but not top 10 talent. Can Diggins carry this team to that level? If she does, she should be player of the year.
 
Sue I see your angle... ND "may not" be as good next year BUT who's going to tstep up and be better than them.

every team is losing someone & gaining others.

ND should be in the Top 3 in the BE next year easily..
 
how can KML be the only FROSH in america to have a good season... if any frosh can average 8-12pts a game thats a good start.

I like the wait & see approach but there's nothing wrong with a lil healthy discussion
 
Suebird10fan said:
Alex I hear what you are saying but CAN you name any team aside from CT baylor MD duke and stfd that you expect to be better than ND?
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Not Alex, but you did ask me this before.

Penn State - returns everyone but one starter.
Kentucky - returns SEC POY Mathies and 8 of their top 9 scorers.
Delaware - Their superstar is better than ND's superstar and they have everyone coming back.
Louiville - Injured Reid coming back. Lose only Burke.
St. Johns - Lose Stephens, but get back seniors to be Smith, McPherson, McKenith


It's not 100% clear to me how far ND will drop. But I don't think their top players can carry the rest to a top ranking.
 
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DaddyChoc said:
how can KML be the only FROSH in america to have a good season... if any frosh can average 8-12pts a game thats a good start.

I like the wait & see approach but there's nothing wrong with a lil healthy discussion
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Who said she was the only frosh in america to have a good season.

Lewis was the BE Tournament MOP. You think Loyd can have that impact? I don't.
 
DaddyChoc said:
Sue I see your angle... ND "may not" be as good next year BUT who's going to tstep up and be better than them.

every team is losing someone & gaining others.

ND should be in the Top 3 in the BE next year easily..
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I can see them under UConn, Louisville, SJU and maybe GTown next year.
 
Where would you rank a team that had this for their 7 player rotation.

Hartley
Faris
Jefferson
Stokes
Engeln
Johnson
Buck

Top 10?
 
doggydaddy said:
Who said she was the only frosh in america to have a good season.

Lewis was the BE Tournament MOP. You think Loyd can have that impact? I don't.
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no clue... nor do I see her as FOY with BStew (MJ & MTuck also) in her way but we'll see
 
doggydaddy said:
I can see them under UConn, Louisville, SJU and maybe GTown next year.
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Not Georgetown... they lose a lot of seniors, including McGee, Wright and Crawford. Rodgers might be the only starter who comes back.
 
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doggydaddy said:
Did they have one this year? And will ND have one?
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that was a serious question, I know you're good at looking up rosters/height etc. so I thought you would have known.

I guess Stevens was/is their post presence... ND does have Achiwao (sp) at 6'3, yeah I know she's not the best player in a america but she is tall.
 
doggydaddy said:
So, what is the 7 player rotation?

Diggins (5'9"), McBride (5'11"), Loyd (5'9"), Ochowa (6'3"), Turner (5'8"), Wright (6'2") and Cabel (5'11").

My guess would be Diggins, McBride, Loyd, Mabrey, Turner, Achonwa, and Wright with McBride playing a similar role to Kelly Faris again as McBride did this season.

This is an incredibly weak team on the boards.
Like UConn is an incredibly weak team on the boards this season? Or Notre Dame is this season starting 4 guards for that matter? Mallory and Novosel are physical players, but they aren't exactly setting rebounding records. They aren't going to out rebound everybody, but "incredibly weak" is way too strong.

We will just have to disagree about Achowa. If she was that good, she would have gotten more than 14 minutes a game. Can she handle 25-30? I don't think so. She is very foul prone.
I disagree that she is any more foul prone than is typical for a post, and I'm pretty sure her foul rate supports my opinion. She will have no problem playing 25-30 minutes next season. She doesn't play more than that now because playing two posts together isn't anymore effective for Notre Dame than it is for UConn. The benefits don't compensate for the way it bogs down the offense. Achonwa playing as the lone post surrounded by four shooters is a different story. She'll also gain significant experience this summer as a significant player on a Canadian national team trying to play its way into the 2012 Olympics. Achonwa is a problem for Notre Dame then there are plenty of very good teams that would like that problem.

Wright played very limited minutes this year. And not very productive when she did play.
She was a freshman post player, no different than many players that will be asked to play backup roles on 2nd tier contenders.
Mabrey will be the 3rd or 4th guard and if she is in, Loyd or Diggins are on the bench. Big drop in play.
This is a false assumption that all three won't be on the floor together.

Loyd (one L) is a terrific player from what I read. But still a freshman and no Lewis in 1st year impact.
She doesn't have to be Lewis. No one is saying Notre Dame is going to be just as good. And highly ranked freshman guards typically have some kind of impact especially when it comes to scoring.

After the top 3-4 players, ND next year will have the talent level equivalent of the bottom 4 on the UConn bench. Nice players but not top 10 talent. Can Diggins carry this team to that level? If she does, she should be player of the year.
The bottom four on UConn's bench would be in the rotation for just about every 2nd tier team in the country. These teams aren't playing a rotation of McDonald's All-Americans. Notre Dame won't be as good and their margin for error will be slim, but they still have the top end talent to matchup with anybody short of the elite teams. Give one of the best coaches in the country that, and I'll take my chances with Notre Dame being alright.
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I love that you guys are overlooking Rutgers, who I think will be #2 in the BE next year. Yeah, we might lose Sykes, Speed, & Rushdan. But we're adding alot more.

We have the #3 in-coming recruiting class with ALOT of size.

6'4 Rachel Hollivay
6'3 Ariel Butts
6'1 Precious Person
6'1 Kahleah Copper

add those to

6'2 Chelsey Lee
6'2 Monique Oliver
6'3 Christa Evans
6'0 Betnijah Laney

and we'll be one of the tallest and longest teams, if not the tallest and longest team in the BE. Add in our speedy guards and we'll be a very tough team. The future is very bright.
 
Scotter, I agree about the rotation. Insert Mabrey and remove Cabel. It doesn't change my opinion on how good they are.

Achowa had the highest foul/minute ratio, even higher than Peters, who is known for her foul issues. And I have a lot of doubt that Achowa can handle the additional 10 minutes a game and be consistent considering how inconsistent she was this year.

Wright could be part of the regular rotation. She better have some kind of big improvement. And if Mabrey is in, then if not Diggins or Loyd being out, McBride would be out. Still makes the lineup weaker substancially.

I just don't see better than an 11-15 ranked team. I think that makes them alright. Just not top 10.
 
Coler said:
I love that you guys are overlooking Rutgers, who I think will be #2 in the BE next year. Yeah, we might lose Sykes, Speed, & Rushdan. But we're adding alot more.

We have the #3 in-coming recruiting class with ALOT of size.

6'4 Rachel Hollivay
6'3 Ariel Butts
6'1 Precious Person
6'1 Kahleah Copper

add those to

6'2 Chelsey Lee
6'2 Monique Oliver
6'3 Christa Evans
6'0 Betnijah Laney

and we'll be one of the tallest and longest teams, if not the tallest and longest team in the BE. Add in our speedy guards and we'll be a very tough team. The future is very bright.
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Ok...move them ahead of ND too.
 
doggydaddy said:
I just don't see better than an 11-15 ranked team. I think that makes them alright. Just not top 10.
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There isn't much distinction between 11-15 and the bottom of the Top 1o in real life. Notre Dame this season is about ten points better than anyone in the bottom half of the top ten this season, and about 15 points better than anyone else in the Big East besides UConn. That's a pretty big cushion to fall into. Teams that are that good typically don't suffer the grand fall that people like to predict.
 
ND will finish 5th or 6th in the BE next year. They will still be a top 15 with their back court play but their weak front court is going to kill them. It will be interesting to see how Skylar performs without Natalie, Malory, and Dex.

ND needs a lot of top talent from the 2013 class that I don't think they will get to stay irrelevant with you guys like they have the past 2 years They MIGHT get Becca Greenwell but I see her staying in state to go to UK or UofL and Reimer would be a better fit with you guys. MaVunga/Russell will be Cardinals or Lady Vols.
 
doggydaddy said:
Top 5 backcourt, but top 50 frontcourt. Achonwa is their only experienced frontcourt player and she is weak. Might even be only top 100 frontcourt.
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They will be bringing in Jewell Loyd
#4 who is ELITE #1 guard and led Whitney Young in Ilinois to an undefeated season and #3 Nationally Ranking. They also got Marbrey #32 guard NJ,she will excel in their system,Huffmam #52 guard CA.They were in the mix for some elite bigs,but that didn't happen. You do not lose Novosol,Peters,and Mallory and with the returning players and Fr,not be less than what they have been the past 2 seasons! With Diggins SR,Mcbride SR,Achowna JR, as the big3 returning with reserves,Wright,Turner,Miller, Loyd and Marbrey will get plenty of time. They obviousely will be a guard oriented team. They will probably have an excellent class in 2013,but Diggins will be gone. What we are bring in with#1 Breanna,#2 Mo,#4 Morgan and everyone returning other than Tiff the landscape will have dramatically changed.;) We will be a prohibitive BE favorite and with Baylor really seperated from all other teams.
Loyd is special and Marbrey may be a sleeper. Meaning above HG ranking and contributing next season.
Compared to us in 2012 WOW

KML SO Ferris SR
Engelin JR Stewart FR
Tuck FR
Johnson JR
Dolson JR
Stokes SO
Buck SR

CD SR MO FR Bria JR
Banks So
 
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