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Notre Dame 2024-25 Season

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GamecockFam said:
As much as I love Westbeld's game, she tends to get neutralized by more athletic or taller players.
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I've always seen her as a bit of a tweener, but was hoping as she's become leaner (knowing she's not a 5) that she would be a dangerous 4, both as a 3 point shooter off of screens, and a finisher on drives at the basket.

The way they use her as a 4, she never rolls to the basket on screens, she steps out for 3 point shots. Unfortunately, she's missing those 3 point shots, missing bunnies at the rim when she drives to the basket, and occasionally gets the ball stripped when driving. It may be, as you suggest, that more athletic players hurry her game to an athletic level that isn't comfortable for her.

Whatever it is, times running out, and with King a better rebounder and defender, and Koval being a better threat to score on high-low passes in the paint, Ivey has to decide if they deserve more time on the court together.

It's frustrating to watch Westbeld struggle so much, and it must be heartbreaking for her.
 
Dillon77 said:
@Frankus
There's a pretty strong school of thought that Westbeld isn't all the way back from whatever that foot surgery was just before the season. She was never the quickest of players, but her footwork -- both offensively and defensively -- was always sound and she knew how to take angles on defense. Last season, she was exceptional at the high post, working with Hidalgo and Citron.

Now, she's getting beat by speed and "in your face" players like Suarez, which is not a good sign. She and Miles are routinely taken out on defense which, of course, hinders offense on the other end.

Still, ND played well enough -- heck, their biggest wins came -- when Kate Koval started at center against USC, Texas and UConn.
Ivey can either work her preferred group over the next week and a half, or make a tough decision on lineups.

However, I'd rather have this mini-slump happen in the conference tournament. They'll still get two games scheduled at home, which should help.

And I think Ivey and Mabrey (who should be chief game planner from here on out), should work up some off-ball plays and screens to help Citron and Miles out.
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We must have been posting at the same time @Dillon 77.

I agree that Maddy doesn't appear at peak athleticism. I don't see two weeks helping Maddy to be the offensive force we all want her to be. I hope I'm wrong.

I think Miles should be the point, with off ball screens for Hannah, Citron. We need either King or Karlen to be sharp in high-low passes to Koval if that's the lineup.

Also, Hannah get steals taking risks when she sees the ball go slightly loose, but the downside is that she sometimes is out of position when she misses, and doesn't always get back on fast break defense. That needs to be fixed.
 
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Muffet McGraw Weighs In on the Irish, Pre-NCAA's

While the headline refers to her as an analyst, her consistent use of "we" really shows where MM is coming from (who can blame her ;)?)

in any case, I agree with her on using Maddy Westbeld (for offense) and Kate Koval (defense, rebounding).
Plus, I think some "shootin' at home" will help the Irish with their 3-pt. accuracy, which -- even with the slump -- is just a tinge under 40 percent.

notredame.rivals.com

Analyst Muffet McGraw sees the Notre Dame WBB team's flaws as fixable

Hall-of-Fame coach breaks down the road to redemption for the No. 8 Irish team ahead of Selection Sunday
notredame.rivals.com notredame.rivals.com
 
Dillon77 said:
Muffet McGraw Weighs In on the Irish, Pre-NCAA's

While the headline refers to her as an analyst, her consistent use of "we" really shows where MM is coming from (who can blame her ;)?)

in any case, I agree with her on using Maddy Westbeld (for offense) and Kate Koval (defense, rebounding).
Plus, I think some "shootin' at home" will help the Irish with their 3-pt. accuracy, which -- even with the slump -- is just a tinge under 40 percent.

notredame.rivals.com

Analyst Muffet McGraw sees the Notre Dame WBB team's flaws as fixable

Hall-of-Fame coach breaks down the road to redemption for the No. 8 Irish team ahead of Selection Sunday
notredame.rivals.com notredame.rivals.com
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Assuming ND recovers their game their path to the FF is possible. SF Austin followed by Michigan in Purcell will imo be ok. The #3 seed is more motivation to recover for the rest.

Then if it's Louisville ND will win for the third time if it's TCU it will be a very motivated revenge game with better use of Koval and Westbeld. Then Texas hopefully without going into OT. Once in the FF it's anyone's guess. My opinion and I'm sure everyone has one of their own.
 
DallasDomer said:
Assuming ND recovers their game their path to the FF is possible. SF Austin followed by Michigan in Purcell will imo be ok. The #3 seed is more motivation to recover for the rest.

Then if it's Louisville ND will win for the third time if it's TCU it will be a very motivated revenge game with better use of Koval and Westbeld. Then Texas hopefully without going into OT. Once in the FF it's anyone's guess. My opinion and I'm sure everyone has one of their own.
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Agree. At the end of the day, whether ND got a 2 or 3 is largely irrelevant. If you're at home and have played the way they have through most of the year, the Irish should win the first two games at home. Michigan will be tough, but I think ND has the team resources to take them down.

If chalk holds, ND would then face the 2 or 3 in the Sweet 16. So, who really cares how they go there at this point?

If anything, the Irish can use the "drop" to the #3 as motivation, if they want to, but I think the losses of the last last few weeks should be motivation enough. I want to see how they bounce back, then -- as noted -- take on TCU in a revenge game or play Louisville for the 47th time into the last half decade. ;). If and after that, the Irish will then see if they get to battle Texas again. And remember, neither Liza Karlen or Maddy Westbeld played in the earlier Irish win over the Longhorns: that was primarily Kate Koval at center.

In any case, glad the wait is over: Let's play ball on Friday!
 
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I'm hopeful the Irish can make a good push. This is a good regional for them. They've taken down TX already, but have lost to TCU. Michigan is a good team who has two big guards. Miles or Prosper will need to play good defensively (I don't think Hannah will matched up against them, Olson and Swords).

This team has the talent to make the final four, but has lows where I wouldn't be surprised if they get knocked out in the second round. Let's see how far Niele's insistence on defense and fast breaks will get them.
 
I think falling to a 3 lowkey worked out for Notre Dame. Their higher seeds are a Texas team they’ve beaten and a TCU team they should have beaten.

They successfully avoided the LA schools, UConn, and South Carolina without the privileges of being a top seed.

If they play to their capabilities, I have Notre Dame winning this regional. There is too much talent on this team not to make the Final Four. But it’s not a given. If you had told me the Irish would be a 3-seed with victories over USC, Texas, and UConn, I’d have told you something went terribly wrong later in the season, and that’s what happened.
 
Reypl21 said:
I'm hopeful the Irish can make a good push. This is a good regional for them. They've taken down TX already, but have lost to TCU. Michigan is a good team who has two big guards. Miles or Prosper will need to play good defensively (I don't think Hannah will matched up against them, Olson and Swords).

This team has the talent to make the final four, but has lows where I wouldn't be surprised if they get knocked out in the second round. Let's see how far Niele's insistence on defense and fast breaks will get them.
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Citron's defence will be important here should they face Michigan in the second round. I'm not sure what to expect as the First Four has to play out first. Iowa State isn't exactly a push over if they win on Wednesday.

If Michigan does win, I can see Citron being matched against Swords and/or Olsen as she has the height to match. She would also be a defensive head ache for them as well. Hildago would likely be dealing with Holloway who is no slouch either as a freshman.
 
cancontent said:
Citron's defence will be important here should they face Michigan in the second round. I'm not sure what to expect as the First Four has to play out first. Iowa State isn't exactly a push over if they win on Wednesday.

If Michigan does win, I can see Citron being matched against Swords and/or Olsen as she has the height to match. She would also be a defensive head ache for them as well. Hildago would likely be dealing with Holloway who is no slouch either as a freshman.
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Yes yes. I didn't say Citron because I was implying she'd already be on one of them. That's why I said Miles or Prosper need to step up. Michigan is a fun matchup for sure. I really enjoy their freshman and look forward to their careers as they progress.

I want to see Koval get big minutes this post season.
 
Reypl21 said:
Yes yes. I didn't say Citron because I was implying she'd already be on one of them. That's why I said Miles or Prosper need to step up. Michigan is a fun matchup for sure. I really enjoy their freshman and look forward to their careers as they progress.

I want to see Koval get big minutes this post season.
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I see where you're coming from, but I'd look at Prosper facing Hobbs when King is getting a breather. She's got the length and agility to match up with her defensively.
 
Thoughts about the tournament:

Although there's been a lot of talk about personnel, I think our biggest weakness is how reliant we are on mostly Hannah and Olivia having a good shooting game. This is mostly due imo to the fact that our set offense depends a lot on one one one, beat the defender off the dribble, guard play. We may do a bit of the "Chin Series" aspect of the Princeton offense, but we don't utilize that offense for a lot of ball movement, and passes -either back door, or off screens- to pass to open players cutting to the basket. So, we often have Hannah or Olivia dribbling the ball, and are heavily reliant on them doing something. If that "doing something" results in a lot of missed shots, we are cooked.

It was telling when Soni, (I think it was it Soni?) said something to the effect of, "We don't want to play in the half court". And yes, we are very dangerous with Hannah, Olivia, Soni and Liatu making steals and running the fast break. Nevertheless, we're going to play teams with skilled guards, and efficient offenses that will move the ball a lot, and force us to defend lots of passes in the half court, while they still score.

One of my theories is that the reason why we blow leads is that Hannah and Olivia, who we are so reliant on to make something happen in the half court, tire on the defensive end against teams that have fast guards that also move the ball. Then, without much of a ball movement offense, they struggle as they get tired to make something happen. The biggest downside of this is that Soni, who is a magnificent slasher/scorer, either is stuck watching, or has to also make something happen off the dribble, usually as the shot clock runs down.

Perhaps if we'd established Kate as a consistent scorer inside we could have put some pressure off of our guards, but we didn't. That would have forced teams to sag, and open up some kick out passes, but Kate, Maddy and Liza aren't reliable inside scorers and we don't run an offense where the kick out passes is easy to execute.

It's possible that our guards, in a 6 game run, can be spectacular, but if they can't it will be the minimal ball movement, unorganized offense that will be our downfall imo.

Of course I could say this about any team regarding their best players having an off night, but our lack of ball movement offense makes it more likely imo.

That being said, we have a lot of talent and can win 6 straight if we're shooting well in our half court game, which has happened. I hope it happens 6 straight games.

Go Irish!
 
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DallasDomer said:
I can't argue with your points but I think as long as no one gets the flu or blows out a knee that this tournament is theirs. I hope I'm right.
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Well, that was before Olivia Miles twisted her ankle in the 4th quarter. Uggh. However, it's not supposed to keep her out of Sunday's game.

 
Conndog said:
Beat SF Austin 106-54, so off to a great start. Forced 28 turnovers- ouch! Miles with only 2 points but everyone else scored. Hidalgo and Citron both with 24 points.
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Citron and Hidalgo both had solid lines:
  • Citron: 24 pts (9-16 overall/4-8 from three), 7 rebounds, 3 blocks, 4 steals.
  • Hidalgo: 24 pts (11-18 overall/1-3 from 3), 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 steals.

Maddy Westbeld started things off well and finished 5-7 from field, 2-2- from FT line for 12.

Liza Karlen had a fine overall performance, grabbing 7 offensive rebounds en route to 10 overall, to go along with 13 pts (6-7 overall). She also had 4 assists.

Coach Ivey substituted frequently, with Citron and Hidalgo being the only players getting 30+ minutes.
 
Thoughts about Stephen F. Austin:

Notre Dame came out early playing a motion, passing offense and executed it well. Then, it was YMCA ball for awhile, one or less passes and a outside missed shot. Coach Ivey says nothing. It is what it is.

We overwhelmed them with our speed and athleticism. Our defense did look like it was notched up, which resulted in steals and blocked shots and easy transition baskets. Hannah was too much for their less athletic guards. Liatu didn't wear her mask and looked quick and nimble. Maddy shot well against the smaller players guarding her. Sonia was great in every phase. Olivia made some great passes, and really worked hard on defense. Liza was very active. After a slow start, Cass played very well. Only Kate struggled, despite the numerous efforts to get her going at the rim against a defender 5 inches smaller. She couldn't finish even close at the rim even , and the second time she was substituted in she really labored in her conditioning.

After Lucy Jensen scored, the couple seated next to us started hugging and crying. I asked them if Lucy was their daughter and they said yes. How cool is that!

Michigan is nowhere near as athletic as we are, but they do run an efficient offense and shoot well from the outside. Our defense will bother them, but if we get caught up in too much ineffective YMCA ball you never know.

Olivia's ankle injury has been chronic. Remember, she went down like that against UCONN (and one other game) and was back in the game within 5 minutes. When she walked off the court she was not bending her ankle, but she's been like that immediately after she re- aggravated the injury before. Who knows. Let's hope it's like the UCONN situation.

On to Michigan! I expect a very big crowd. The student's came out today better than any other game, and more people will be off work Sunday.

Go Irish!
 
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Frankus said:
Thoughts about Stephen F. Austin:

Notre Dame came out early playing a motion, passing offense and executed it well. Then, it was YMCA ball for awhile, one or less passes and a outside missed shot. Coach Ivey says nothing. It is what it is.

We overwhelmed them with our speed and athleticism. Our defense did look like it was notched up, which resulted in steals and blocked shots and easy transition baskets. Hannah was too much for their less athletic guards. Liatu didn't wear her mask and looked quick and nimble. Maddy shot well against the smaller players guarding her. Sonia was great in every phase. Olivia made some great passes, and really worked hard on defense. Liza was very active. After a slow start, Cass played very well. Only Kate struggled, despite the numerous efforts to get her going at the rim against a defender 5 inches smaller. She couldn't finish even close at the rim even , and the second time she was substituted in she really labored in her conditioning.

After Lucy Jensen scored, the couple seated next to us started hugging and crying. I asked them if Lucy was their daughter and they said yes. How cool is that!

Michigan is nowhere near as athletic as we are, but they do run an efficient offense and shoot well from the outside. Our defense will bother them, but if we get caught up in too much ineffective YMCA ball you never know.

Olivia's ankle injury has been chronic. Remember, she went down like that against UCONN (and one other game) and was back in the game within 5 minutes. When she walked off the court she was not bending her ankle, but she's been like that immediately after she re- aggravated the injury before. Who knows. Let's hope it's like the UCONN situation.

On to Michigan! I expect a very big crowd. The student's came out today better than any other game, and more people will be off work Sunday.

Go Irish!
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"On to Michigan! I expect a very big crowd. The student's came out today better than any other game, and more people will be off work Sunday."

As strong as the rivalry is between ND and the skunkbears, aka wolverines, Purcell had better be full!
The recap says the attendance was 7452 but it looked like more on tv. Were there that many open seats?
As badly as Miles was limping I am concerned that she won't be 100% but if Hidalgo or Citron or even Prosper have to take the point I still expect ND to win by 10. Prosper played well and stayed under control very well against SFA.
Koval played very well defensively and given the lack of size Michigan has I think she will again. She still needs to get better control of her close in layups. The two I expect to see dominate are Hidalgo with her steals and drives, and Westbeld with her shooting skills.
 
I find it ironic that Achonwa is going to be on the opposite side as a coach in her first season. What a way to start her new career.

And we'll have Canadian Olympic team mates facing off against each other in Prosper and Swords. Interesting side story to the game.
 
cancontent said:
I find it ironic that Achonwa is going to be on the opposite side as a coach in her first season. What a way to start her new career.

And we'll have Canadian Olympic team mates facing off against each other in Prosper and Swords. Interesting side story to the game.
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Achonwa's injury (one of a seemingly infinite number so ACL tears) in the 2014 elite eight against Baylor was crippling to the Irish. They still went on to beat Maryland 87- 61 only to lose to UConn in the finals or perhaps I should say they lost to Breanna Stewart. ND finished 37-1. This was the first year in the ACC. (Apologies for the history lecture.)

She likely coaches "bigs" but since Michigan starts 6'3" Hobbs and the rest smaller they have a similar lineup to ND until Koval and Karlen come in, who played 25 & 22 minutes vs Grabovskaia with 7. Michigan had a closer game and had to play their starters longer but I doubt fatigue will be an issue after one game.

I'm sure she will do her best for her current team and I hope Coach Ivey can get her on the ND staff in the future.
 
DallasDomer said:
Achonwa's injury (one of a seemingly infinite number so ACL tears) in the 2014 elite eight against Baylor was crippling to the Irish. They still went on to beat Maryland 87- 61 only to lose to UConn in the finals or perhaps I should say they lost to Breanna Stewart. ND finished 37-1. This was the first year in the ACC. (Apologies for the history lecture.)

She likely coaches "bigs" but since Michigan starts 6'3" Hobbs and the rest smaller they have a similar lineup to ND until Koval and Karlen come in, who played 25 & 22 minutes vs Grabovskaia with 7. Michigan had a closer game and had to play their starters longer but I doubt fatigue will be an issue after one game.

I'm sure she will do her best for her current team and I hope Coach Ivey can get her on the ND staff in the future.
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Michigan doesn't have any true post depth. Grabovskaia struggles and hasn't played significant minutes as we saw yesterday. They'll likely continue to play the way they do regardless of Koval and Karlen being on the court. They've been doing it all season regardless of the team they face.
 
Some Sat. A.M. Quick Hitters:
  • Michigan's five starters scored all of their points against Iowa State. As @cancontent noted, there's little (post) depth there, consider Barnes Arrico was down to 4 players last spring. Kind of amazing they're here. Don't know what's going on regarding retention, but she can coach who's present.
  • Iowa State has Crooks, who will keep them in any game offensively. But she just can't move in the center of that 2-3 zone and the wing forwards get caught insider trying to cheat. As a result, Michigan (finally) started finding the open slots.
By contrast, ND will have a defensive presence. Koval played active defense yesterday and can clog the middle and Karlen looked like she was shot out of a cannon all game. Whew!
  • When Miles was taking a breather (even before the ankle sprain), I felt like a return to last season with Hannah Hidalgo and Sonia Citron taking turns running the half court and Maddy Westbeld -- not Liatu King -- receiving the inbound pass by the elbow. Result: swish, swish, pass. Paydirt. The three have innate chemistry.
  • That's not to put down King, who played loose without the mask on. I just think keeping Westbeld at the key makes better use of her talents and vision.
  • Citron was edgier than usual yesterday. I liked it.
(If Steph White is probably upset about any one thing the Fever did, it was giving up their draft pick for a chance to get Citron for the Fever. White adores Citron's game and Clark/Citron play together very well.)
 
DallasDomer said:
"On to Michigan! I expect a very big crowd. The student's came out today better than any other game, and more people will be off work Sunday."

As strong as the rivalry is between ND and the skunkbears, aka wolverines, Purcell had better be full!
The recap says the attendance was 7452 but it looked like more on tv. Were there that many open seats?
As badly as Miles was limping I am concerned that she won't be 100% but if Hidalgo or Citron or even Prosper have to take the point I still expect ND to win by 10. Prosper played well and stayed under control very well against SFA.
Koval played very well defensively and given the lack of size Michigan has I think she will again. She still needs to get better control of her close in layups. The two I expect to see dominate are Hidalgo with her steals and drives, and Westbeld with her shooting skills.
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Yes, there were more open seats than usual, but it was during a work day. Very rare.
 
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DallasDomer said:
Achonwa's injury (one of a seemingly infinite number so ACL tears) in the 2014 elite eight against Baylor was crippling to the Irish. They still went on to beat Maryland 87- 61 only to lose to UConn in the finals or perhaps I should say they lost to Breanna Stewart. ND finished 37-1. This was the first year in the ACC. (Apologies for the history lecture.)

She likely coaches "bigs" but since Michigan starts 6'3" Hobbs and the rest smaller they have a similar lineup to ND until Koval and Karlen come in, who played 25 & 22 minutes vs Grabovskaia with 7. Michigan had a closer game and had to play their starters longer but I doubt fatigue will be an issue after one game.

I'm sure she will do her best for her current team and I hope Coach Ivey can get her on the ND staff in the future.
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Hobbs was really gassed in the second half with all the energy she had to put out trying to keep Crooks from getting better inside position. I really admired how tough she played, even as I felt she was at the threshold of her conditioning.
 
Thoughts about Michigan:

Sonia, Hannah and particularly Liatu showed up big with their superior talent against an overmatched Michigan squad. Liatu looks like the Liatu in the early season big wins now that she's playing without a face mask.

Our entire defense looked great, hustling and swarming, except early in the 2nd quarter when we allowed a lot of layups, mostly to Lucy Olson.

BTW: Olsen is often paired with Strong as a super freshman duo, but Olsen looks and plays like a much bigger, stronger athlete. She's a handful when driving to the basket.

We were best when we moved the ball, and used our quickness to get easy matchups. We also ran well in the first half and were smart and efficient in our fast break. We were so so with our YMCA half court ball, Hannah playing the best, but whenever we go to that double pick option for Olivia or Hannah at the elbow, you know one other other is going YMCA.

A gimpy Olivia played well with more assists than rebounds. She had some great passes inside for layups to Liza and Liatu, and some WNBA type passes that even Hannah couldn't convert, because they required a bang bang execution. She's going to be a great WNBA point guard.

It's hard to believe that neither Kate or Liza can throw accurate high low passes, but they both didn't come near passing accurately, which caused successive turnovers. It's too late to think that's going to change, and let's face it, we don't have a NC type 5. We're going to have to win it without one. I'd be more optimistic if Maddy could neutralize it with 3-point shooting, but we're in miracle territory thinking she can start shooting 3 point shots accurately. There comes a time when either a player or a coach recognizes limitations, and puts restriction on what shots are acceptable and which are not, and how a player can help the team in other ways. That's where we are with Maddy imo.

On the bright side we have 4 elite players in Sonia, Hannah, Olivia and Liatu and all of Cass, Liza, Maddy and Kate hustle defensively. Let's hope our 4 true stars play like today for four more games.

On to the Sweet 16!
 
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Frankus said:
Thoughts about Michigan:

Sonia, Hannah and particularly Liatu showed up big with their superior talent against an overmatched Michigan squad. Liatu looks like the Liatu in the early season big wins now that she's playing without a face mask.

Our entire defense looked great, hustling and swarming, except early in the 3rd quarter when we allowed a lot of layups, mostly to Lucy Olson.

BTW: Olsen is often paired with Strong as a super freshman duo, but Olsen looks and plays like a much bigger, stronger athlete. She's a handful when driving to the basket.

We were best when we moved the ball, and used our quickness to get easy matchups. We also ran well in the first half and we're smart and efficient in our fast break. We were so so with our YMCA half court ball, Hannah playing the best, but whenever we go to that double pick option for Olivia or Hannah at the elbow, you know one other other is going YMCA.

A gimpy Olivia played well with more assists than rebounds. She had some great passes inside for layups to Liza and Liatu, and some WNBA type passes that even Hannah couldn't convert, because they required a bang bang execution. She's going to be a great WNBA point guard.

It's hard to believe that neither Kate or Liza can throw accurate high low passes, but they both didn't come near passing accurately, which caused successive turnovers. It's too late to think that's going to change, and let's face it, we don't have a NC type 5. We're going to have to win it without one. I'd be more optimistic if Maddy could neutralize it with 3-point shooting, but we're in miracle territory thinking she can start shooting 3 point shots accurately. There comes a time when either a player or a coach recognizes limitations, and puts restriction on what shots are acceptable and which are not, and how a player can help the team in other ways. That's where we are with Maddy imo.

On the bright side we have 4 elite players in Sonia, Hannah, Olivia and Liatu and all of Cass, Liza, Maddy and Kate hustle defensively. Let's hope our 4 true stars play like today for four more games.

On to the Sweet 16!
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Just need to reinforce King, she was 7-7 FG & 4-4 FT!!!

On the lob entry passes imo it's never to late to learn to put more arc in the passes. I think the are tense which is flattening or making it go long.

On Westbeld she seems to have one good shooting game, 5-7 vs SFA, and one bad, 1-9 today. If my unverified logic holds she will shoot well vs TCU/L.
 
DallasDomer said:
Just need to reinforce King, she was 7-7 FG & 4-4 FT!!!

On the lob entry passes imo it's never to late to learn to put more arc in the passes. I think the are tense which is flattening or making it go long.

On Westbeld she seems to have one good shooting game, 5-7 vs SFA, and one bad, 1-9 today. If my unverified logic holds she will shoot well vs TCU/L.
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I'm talking about 3 point shooting. She shoots much better within 10 feet off dribble drives, on short fade aways and layups.

She's 2-19 (10%) from 3 point range in her last 8 games.

I'm sure it's excruciating for her, and I feel bad for her, but now we're in "every possession counts" territory. On 2 point shots, she's 18-38 (47%) in her last 8 games.

I'd prefer that she play like Liatu, who stays within the 3 point line. There's got to be a way to get both Maddy and Liatu high percentage shots. We have three more accurate 3-point shooters who can keep the floor spread.
 
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