Sure, this is all trye......but did you see the ND presser.....coach was audible struggling to put sentences/words together....she seemed very, very frustrated
Notre Dame 2024-25 Season
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WBBTakeover
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Shocked, no. Stunned? No. Mildly surprised? Yes. They seem to have a BIG problem as of late. Westbeld clearly isn't the same as she was when she was in peak form last year (which is unfortunate), Koval wasn't developed properly (contrast that with the way Wes and his staff developed Trygger and Awou), and Karlen is at a size and athleticism disadvantage against contenders (she is in over her head a bit).
There also appears to be a power struggle involving the guards.
That said, they have a golden opportunity to make us all forget about this last stretch by winning 4+ games in the tourney. It's doable.
Duke Thoughts:
When your five most experienced players-Westbeld/King/Karlen/Citron and Miles-score a combined 26 points, you're not going to win many games.
King and Westbeld scored 0 points. Zero.
Ivey is getting paid big bucks to make tough decisions, and she's got a tough one regarding Westbeld, who has scored 26 points total in the past 5 games, and is 2-11 fom 3 point range.
Edit: I don't think this team plays zone defense well. With its athleticism, there's no reason not to be a man defense team.
When your five most experienced players-Westbeld/King/Karlen/Citron and Miles-score a combined 26 points, you're not going to win many games.
King and Westbeld scored 0 points. Zero.
Ivey is getting paid big bucks to make tough decisions, and she's got a tough one regarding Westbeld, who has scored 26 points total in the past 5 games, and is 2-11 fom 3 point range.
Edit: I don't think this team plays zone defense well. With its athleticism, there's no reason not to be a man defense team.
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As much as I love Westbeld's game, she tends to get neutralized by more athletic or taller players.
Dillon77
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@Frankus
There's a pretty strong school of thought that Westbeld isn't all the way back from whatever that foot surgery was just before the season. She was never the quickest of players, but her footwork -- both offensively and defensively -- was always sound and she knew how to take angles on defense. Last season, she was exceptional at the high post, working with Hidalgo and Citron.
Now, she's getting beat by speed and "in your face" players like Suarez, which is not a good sign. She and Miles are routinely taken out on defense which, of course, hinders offense on the other end.
Still, ND played well enough -- heck, their biggest wins came -- when Kate Koval started at center against USC, Texas and UConn.
Ivey can either work her preferred group over the next week and a half, or make a tough decision on lineups.
However, I'd rather have this mini-slump happen in the conference tournament. They'll still get two games scheduled at home, which should help.
And I think Ivey and Mabrey (who should be chief game planner from here on out), should work up some off-ball plays and screens to help Citron and Miles out.
I've always seen her as a bit of a tweener, but was hoping as she's become leaner (knowing she's not a 5) that she would be a dangerous 4, both as a 3 point shooter off of screens, and a finisher on drives at the basket.
The way they use her as a 4, she never rolls to the basket on screens, she steps out for 3 point shots. Unfortunately, she's missing those 3 point shots, missing bunnies at the rim when she drives to the basket, and occasionally gets the ball stripped when driving. It may be, as you suggest, that more athletic players hurry her game to an athletic level that isn't comfortable for her.
Whatever it is, times running out, and with King a better rebounder and defender, and Koval being a better threat to score on high-low passes in the paint, Ivey has to decide if they deserve more time on the court together.
It's frustrating to watch Westbeld struggle so much, and it must be heartbreaking for her.
We must have been posting at the same time @Dillon 77.
I agree that Maddy doesn't appear at peak athleticism. I don't see two weeks helping Maddy to be the offensive force we all want her to be. I hope I'm wrong.
I think Miles should be the point, with off ball screens for Hannah, Citron. We need either King or Karlen to be sharp in high-low passes to Koval if that's the lineup.
Also, Hannah get steals taking risks when she sees the ball go slightly loose, but the downside is that she sometimes is out of position when she misses, and doesn't always get back on fast break defense. That needs to be fixed.
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LisaG
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Some insight from ESPN re ND's issues over last few games -
www.espn.com
Champ Week takeaways: No. 1 seeds set, South Carolina again the favorite, trouble at Notre Dame
Now that No. 1 seeds and host teams are decided, do we believe in UCLA and Texas? Just how far can Duke and TCU go? And what's wrong at Notre Dame?
Dillon77
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Muffet McGraw Weighs In on the Irish, Pre-NCAA's
While the headline refers to her as an analyst, her consistent use of "we" really shows where MM is coming from (who can blame her
?)
in any case, I agree with her on using Maddy Westbeld (for offense) and Kate Koval (defense, rebounding).
Plus, I think some "shootin' at home" will help the Irish with their 3-pt. accuracy, which -- even with the slump -- is just a tinge under 40 percent.
notredame.rivals.com
While the headline refers to her as an analyst, her consistent use of "we" really shows where MM is coming from (who can blame her
?)in any case, I agree with her on using Maddy Westbeld (for offense) and Kate Koval (defense, rebounding).
Plus, I think some "shootin' at home" will help the Irish with their 3-pt. accuracy, which -- even with the slump -- is just a tinge under 40 percent.
Analyst Muffet McGraw sees the Notre Dame WBB team's flaws as fixable
Hall-of-Fame coach breaks down the road to redemption for the No. 8 Irish team ahead of Selection Sunday
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Assuming ND recovers their game their path to the FF is possible. SF Austin followed by Michigan in Purcell will imo be ok. The #3 seed is more motivation to recover for the rest.Muffet McGraw Weighs In on the Irish, Pre-NCAA's
While the headline refers to her as an analyst, her consistent use of "we" really shows where MM is coming from (who can blame her
in any case, I agree with her on using Maddy Westbeld (for offense) and Kate Koval (defense, rebounding).
Plus, I think some "shootin' at home" will help the Irish with their 3-pt. accuracy, which -- even with the slump -- is just a tinge under 40 percent.
Analyst Muffet McGraw sees the Notre Dame WBB team's flaws as fixable
Hall-of-Fame coach breaks down the road to redemption for the No. 8 Irish team ahead of Selection Sunday
Then if it's Louisville ND will win for the third time if it's TCU it will be a very motivated revenge game with better use of Koval and Westbeld. Then Texas hopefully without going into OT. Once in the FF it's anyone's guess. My opinion and I'm sure everyone has one of their own.
Dillon77
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Agree. At the end of the day, whether ND got a 2 or 3 is largely irrelevant. If you're at home and have played the way they have through most of the year, the Irish should win the first two games at home. Michigan will be tough, but I think ND has the team resources to take them down.
If chalk holds, ND would then face the 2 or 3 in the Sweet 16. So, who really cares how they go there at this point?
If anything, the Irish can use the "drop" to the #3 as motivation, if they want to, but I think the losses of the last last few weeks should be motivation enough. I want to see how they bounce back, then -- as noted -- take on TCU in a revenge game or play Louisville for the 47th time into the last half decade.
. If and after that, the Irish will then see if they get to battle Texas again. And remember, neither Liza Karlen or Maddy Westbeld played in the earlier Irish win over the Longhorns: that was primarily Kate Koval at center.In any case, glad the wait is over: Let's play ball on Friday!
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I'm hopeful the Irish can make a good push. This is a good regional for them. They've taken down TX already, but have lost to TCU. Michigan is a good team who has two big guards. Miles or Prosper will need to play good defensively (I don't think Hannah will matched up against them, Olson and Swords).
This team has the talent to make the final four, but has lows where I wouldn't be surprised if they get knocked out in the second round. Let's see how far Niele's insistence on defense and fast breaks will get them.
This team has the talent to make the final four, but has lows where I wouldn't be surprised if they get knocked out in the second round. Let's see how far Niele's insistence on defense and fast breaks will get them.
I think falling to a 3 lowkey worked out for Notre Dame. Their higher seeds are a Texas team they’ve beaten and a TCU team they should have beaten.
They successfully avoided the LA schools, UConn, and South Carolina without the privileges of being a top seed.
If they play to their capabilities, I have Notre Dame winning this regional. There is too much talent on this team not to make the Final Four. But it’s not a given. If you had told me the Irish would be a 3-seed with victories over USC, Texas, and UConn, I’d have told you something went terribly wrong later in the season, and that’s what happened.
They successfully avoided the LA schools, UConn, and South Carolina without the privileges of being a top seed.
If they play to their capabilities, I have Notre Dame winning this regional. There is too much talent on this team not to make the Final Four. But it’s not a given. If you had told me the Irish would be a 3-seed with victories over USC, Texas, and UConn, I’d have told you something went terribly wrong later in the season, and that’s what happened.
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Citron's defence will be important here should they face Michigan in the second round. I'm not sure what to expect as the First Four has to play out first. Iowa State isn't exactly a push over if they win on Wednesday.
If Michigan does win, I can see Citron being matched against Swords and/or Olsen as she has the height to match. She would also be a defensive head ache for them as well. Hildago would likely be dealing with Holloway who is no slouch either as a freshman.
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Yes yes. I didn't say Citron because I was implying she'd already be on one of them. That's why I said Miles or Prosper need to step up. Michigan is a fun matchup for sure. I really enjoy their freshman and look forward to their careers as they progress.
I want to see Koval get big minutes this post season.
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I see where you're coming from, but I'd look at Prosper facing Hobbs when King is getting a breather. She's got the length and agility to match up with her defensively.
Thoughts about the tournament:
Although there's been a lot of talk about personnel, I think our biggest weakness is how reliant we are on mostly Hannah and Olivia having a good shooting game. This is mostly due imo to the fact that our set offense depends a lot on one one one, beat the defender off the dribble, guard play. We may do a bit of the "Chin Series" aspect of the Princeton offense, but we don't utilize that offense for a lot of ball movement, and passes -either back door, or off screens- to pass to open players cutting to the basket. So, we often have Hannah or Olivia dribbling the ball, and are heavily reliant on them doing something. If that "doing something" results in a lot of missed shots, we are cooked.
It was telling when Soni, (I think it was it Soni?) said something to the effect of, "We don't want to play in the half court". And yes, we are very dangerous with Hannah, Olivia, Soni and Liatu making steals and running the fast break. Nevertheless, we're going to play teams with skilled guards, and efficient offenses that will move the ball a lot, and force us to defend lots of passes in the half court, while they still score.
One of my theories is that the reason why we blow leads is that Hannah and Olivia, who we are so reliant on to make something happen in the half court, tire on the defensive end against teams that have fast guards that also move the ball. Then, without much of a ball movement offense, they struggle as they get tired to make something happen. The biggest downside of this is that Soni, who is a magnificent slasher/scorer, either is stuck watching, or has to also make something happen off the dribble, usually as the shot clock runs down.
Perhaps if we'd established Kate as a consistent scorer inside we could have put some pressure off of our guards, but we didn't. That would have forced teams to sag, and open up some kick out passes, but Kate, Maddy and Liza aren't reliable inside scorers and we don't run an offense where the kick out passes is easy to execute.
It's possible that our guards, in a 6 game run, can be spectacular, but if they can't it will be the minimal ball movement, unorganized offense that will be our downfall imo.
Of course I could say this about any team regarding their best players having an off night, but our lack of ball movement offense makes it more likely imo.
That being said, we have a lot of talent and can win 6 straight if we're shooting well in our half court game, which has happened. I hope it happens 6 straight games.
Go Irish!
Although there's been a lot of talk about personnel, I think our biggest weakness is how reliant we are on mostly Hannah and Olivia having a good shooting game. This is mostly due imo to the fact that our set offense depends a lot on one one one, beat the defender off the dribble, guard play. We may do a bit of the "Chin Series" aspect of the Princeton offense, but we don't utilize that offense for a lot of ball movement, and passes -either back door, or off screens- to pass to open players cutting to the basket. So, we often have Hannah or Olivia dribbling the ball, and are heavily reliant on them doing something. If that "doing something" results in a lot of missed shots, we are cooked.
It was telling when Soni, (I think it was it Soni?) said something to the effect of, "We don't want to play in the half court". And yes, we are very dangerous with Hannah, Olivia, Soni and Liatu making steals and running the fast break. Nevertheless, we're going to play teams with skilled guards, and efficient offenses that will move the ball a lot, and force us to defend lots of passes in the half court, while they still score.
One of my theories is that the reason why we blow leads is that Hannah and Olivia, who we are so reliant on to make something happen in the half court, tire on the defensive end against teams that have fast guards that also move the ball. Then, without much of a ball movement offense, they struggle as they get tired to make something happen. The biggest downside of this is that Soni, who is a magnificent slasher/scorer, either is stuck watching, or has to also make something happen off the dribble, usually as the shot clock runs down.
Perhaps if we'd established Kate as a consistent scorer inside we could have put some pressure off of our guards, but we didn't. That would have forced teams to sag, and open up some kick out passes, but Kate, Maddy and Liza aren't reliable inside scorers and we don't run an offense where the kick out passes is easy to execute.
It's possible that our guards, in a 6 game run, can be spectacular, but if they can't it will be the minimal ball movement, unorganized offense that will be our downfall imo.
Of course I could say this about any team regarding their best players having an off night, but our lack of ball movement offense makes it more likely imo.
That being said, we have a lot of talent and can win 6 straight if we're shooting well in our half court game, which has happened. I hope it happens 6 straight games.
Go Irish!
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I can't argue with your points but I think as long as no one gets the flu or blows out a knee that this tournament is theirs. I hope I'm right.
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Looks like those two weeks off did a world of good!
Dillon77
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Well, that was before Olivia Miles twisted her ankle in the 4th quarter. Uggh. However, it's not supposed to keep her out of Sunday's game.
Dillon77
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Citron and Hidalgo both had solid lines:
- Citron: 24 pts (9-16 overall/4-8 from three), 7 rebounds, 3 blocks, 4 steals.
- Hidalgo: 24 pts (11-18 overall/1-3 from 3), 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 steals.
Maddy Westbeld started things off well and finished 5-7 from field, 2-2- from FT line for 12.
Liza Karlen had a fine overall performance, grabbing 7 offensive rebounds en route to 10 overall, to go along with 13 pts (6-7 overall). She also had 4 assists.
Coach Ivey substituted frequently, with Citron and Hidalgo being the only players getting 30+ minutes.
Thoughts about Stephen F. Austin:
Notre Dame came out early playing a motion, passing offense and executed it well. Then, it was YMCA ball for awhile, one or less passes and a outside missed shot. Coach Ivey says nothing. It is what it is.
We overwhelmed them with our speed and athleticism. Our defense did look like it was notched up, which resulted in steals and blocked shots and easy transition baskets. Hannah was too much for their less athletic guards. Liatu didn't wear her mask and looked quick and nimble. Maddy shot well against the smaller players guarding her. Sonia was great in every phase. Olivia made some great passes, and really worked hard on defense. Liza was very active. After a slow start, Cass played very well. Only Kate struggled, despite the numerous efforts to get her going at the rim against a defender 5 inches smaller. She couldn't finish even close at the rim even , and the second time she was substituted in she really labored in her conditioning.
After Lucy Jensen scored, the couple seated next to us started hugging and crying. I asked them if Lucy was their daughter and they said yes. How cool is that!
Michigan is nowhere near as athletic as we are, but they do run an efficient offense and shoot well from the outside. Our defense will bother them, but if we get caught up in too much ineffective YMCA ball you never know.
Olivia's ankle injury has been chronic. Remember, she went down like that against UCONN (and one other game) and was back in the game within 5 minutes. When she walked off the court she was not bending her ankle, but she's been like that immediately after she re- aggravated the injury before. Who knows. Let's hope it's like the UCONN situation.
On to Michigan! I expect a very big crowd. The student's came out today better than any other game, and more people will be off work Sunday.
Go Irish!
Notre Dame came out early playing a motion, passing offense and executed it well. Then, it was YMCA ball for awhile, one or less passes and a outside missed shot. Coach Ivey says nothing. It is what it is.
We overwhelmed them with our speed and athleticism. Our defense did look like it was notched up, which resulted in steals and blocked shots and easy transition baskets. Hannah was too much for their less athletic guards. Liatu didn't wear her mask and looked quick and nimble. Maddy shot well against the smaller players guarding her. Sonia was great in every phase. Olivia made some great passes, and really worked hard on defense. Liza was very active. After a slow start, Cass played very well. Only Kate struggled, despite the numerous efforts to get her going at the rim against a defender 5 inches smaller. She couldn't finish even close at the rim even , and the second time she was substituted in she really labored in her conditioning.
After Lucy Jensen scored, the couple seated next to us started hugging and crying. I asked them if Lucy was their daughter and they said yes. How cool is that!
Michigan is nowhere near as athletic as we are, but they do run an efficient offense and shoot well from the outside. Our defense will bother them, but if we get caught up in too much ineffective YMCA ball you never know.
Olivia's ankle injury has been chronic. Remember, she went down like that against UCONN (and one other game) and was back in the game within 5 minutes. When she walked off the court she was not bending her ankle, but she's been like that immediately after she re- aggravated the injury before. Who knows. Let's hope it's like the UCONN situation.
On to Michigan! I expect a very big crowd. The student's came out today better than any other game, and more people will be off work Sunday.
Go Irish!
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"On to Michigan! I expect a very big crowd. The student's came out today better than any other game, and more people will be off work Sunday."
As strong as the rivalry is between ND and the skunkbears, aka wolverines, Purcell had better be full!
The recap says the attendance was 7452 but it looked like more on tv. Were there that many open seats?
As badly as Miles was limping I am concerned that she won't be 100% but if Hidalgo or Citron or even Prosper have to take the point I still expect ND to win by 10. Prosper played well and stayed under control very well against SFA.
Koval played very well defensively and given the lack of size Michigan has I think she will again. She still needs to get better control of her close in layups. The two I expect to see dominate are Hidalgo with her steals and drives, and Westbeld with her shooting skills.
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I find it ironic that Achonwa is going to be on the opposite side as a coach in her first season. What a way to start her new career.
And we'll have Canadian Olympic team mates facing off against each other in Prosper and Swords. Interesting side story to the game.
And we'll have Canadian Olympic team mates facing off against each other in Prosper and Swords. Interesting side story to the game.
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