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Notre Dame 2024-25 Season

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DallasDomer said:
I hope you understand why I'm not getting into it over the relative coaching skills in the other thread. I think Coach Ivey is very good and her time as a point guard wining a championship then, as Muffets assistant, then the NBA, qualifies her very well. Those are facts but how good she is vs another coach with a different history and a different group of players gets to be a shouting match. Even the results of one game only tells you about that game.
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Oh yes....;)
 
DallasDomer said:
I think the Irish will need all the talent they can get given a really tough schedule. Obviously early but Massey has their strength of schedule #3. His list is
1. Iowa
2. South Carolina
3. Notre Dame
4. Louisville
5. UCLA
6. Duke
7. Stanford
8. USC
9. Texas
10. Maryland
...
16. Connecticut

Of course this will change over time and I think the conference reshuffle moved talent into the ACC, BIG, ,SEC from the old version of the PAC, etc.

I was very surprised at Uconn placement as they are usually much higher. But as these very early rankings change so does the strength of schedule.

Massey differs from the ACC panel and has the ACC at Stanford, NC State, Notre Dame, Duke, Virginia Tech, Louisville, North Carolina, etc.

The attached has to be sorted by SSF to get the strength of schedule result: Massey Ratings - College Basketball Women's : NCAA D1 Ratings
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How is UCONN at 16?? We face ND, SC, USC, Iowa State, Louisville, etc. Our conference isn't great outside of Creighton and maybe Butler this season but come on. That's multiple top 10 teams.
 
yhun89 said:
How is UCONN at 16?? We face ND, SC, USC, Iowa State, Louisville, etc. Our conference isn't great outside of Creighton and maybe Butler this season but come on. That's multiple top 10 teams.
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I was surprised to but if you drill into it the basis is his current rankings.

Uconn only plays 2 teams ranked 10 or higher, ND and South Carolina. Just picking Texas they play 4, ND, South Carolina twice, and LSU.

Most of the teams you listed playing Uconn are not in Masseys top 10, only ND and South Carolina.

All of this changes as the rankings change over time.
 
My recollection based on past thread dialogues was Massey is still skewed with last years games as it will take 10 or so games this year to ferret out how teams really are.

I hate to say this to the ND fans, but I was happy to read about the injury concerns with Watson and Westbeld as that is where UConn is thinnest in experience. Not sure what to make of Koval as she was #5 in Hoopgurlz and Hildago was awesome last year in her debut so with both Watson and Westbeld on the mend, playing time will be given that Koval could shine. How good is she really, no one knows at this juncture. The only freshmen center who was an immediate success on the high profile level was Aliyah Boston. All other bigs took some time to fully realize their impact-Stewie, Wilson, Brink. Selfishly, I hope Koval takes lots of time.... :)
 
DallasDomer said:
I was surprised to but if you drill into it the basis is his current rankings.

Uconn only plays 2 teams ranked 10 or higher, ND and South Carolina. Just picking Texas they play 4, ND, South Carolina twice, and LSU.

Most of the teams you listed playing Uconn are not in Masseys top 10, only ND and South Carolina.

All of this changes as the rankings change over time.
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How on earth did Stanford make his list? Who do they have left??
 
DefenseBB said:
My recollection based on past thread dialogues was Massey is still skewed with last years games as it will take 10 or so games this year to ferret out how teams really are.

I hate to say this to the ND fans, but I was happy to read about the injury concerns with Watson and Westbeld as that is where UConn is thinnest in experience. Not sure what to make of Koval as she was #5 in Hoopgurlz and Hildago was awesome last year in her debut so with both Watson and Westbeld on the mend, playing time will be given that Koval could shine. How good is she really, no one knows at this juncture. The only freshmen center who was an immediate success on the high profile level was Aliyah Boston. All other bigs took some time to fully realize their impact-Stewie, Wilson, Brink. Selfishly, I hope Koval takes lots of time.... :)
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If the only way to win is hope for injuries I'd rather not play, but to each their own. I honestly hope every team ND plays is at full strength so if ND wins the only excuse you have left are to blame the refs. I don't mean to offend you but that's how I feel.
 
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Massey preseason rankings mean basically nothing. All it is is averaging each teams success for last 2 or 3 years. Personnel is not looked at at all.
 
12au said:
Massey preseason rankings mean basically nothing. All it is is averaging each teams success for last 2 or 3 years. Personnel is not looked at at all.
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This point has needed to be made every year it seems. Thank you. Meaningless is the word to describe Massey preseason.
 
yhun89 said:
How on earth did Stanford make his list? Who do they have left??
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Massey bases it's entire preseason ranking on the past and makes no allowances for changes in players or coaches.
 
12au said:
Massey preseason rankings mean basically nothing. All it is is averaging each teams success for last 2 or 3 years. Personnel is not looked at at all.
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That might be, I've never asked him.
12au said:
Massey preseason rankings mean basically nothing. All it is is averaging each teams success for last 2 or 3 years. Personnel is not looked at at all.
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I actually don't know how he gets them but I'll send him a note to ask. I'm curious now.
 
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Dillon77 said:
Yup.
Crickets abound in South Bend on that, so fingers are crossed that the boot is for pre-cautionary measures only.
Irish injury streak carries over from last year to this pre-season: Kylee Watson is probably out rehabbing the ACL she suffered in the play-offs; KK Bransford decided to take a redshirt year off to rehab a lower-leg injury; and, Maddy Westbeld having foot surgery a month ago. While Westbeld said she hoped to be back this season, who knows what the timeline is? And now this.

Thank the Dome, Coach Ivey recruited both Lizzie Karlen and Liatu King from the transfer portal. Very much having fingers crossed and thinking good thoughts for both Westbeld and Kate Koval.
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Update: Koval is out of the boot and practicing as if nothing was ever wrong.
Using the boot now seems to being used to treat a variety of day-to-day issues as well as serious ones, from minor sprains to bone bruises. Sonia Citron looked to have suffered a sprain in a scrimmage the other day and as spotted in a boot for a day or three. She's fine now, too.
 
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Skylar Diggins-Smith Attends ND Practice

I'm not sure where Diggins-Smith lives in the offseason, but gosh knows she has deep roots in the South Bend area. Whenever she's in town, she will drop by to see Niele Ivey, who she has remained very close to since graduation. In this case, she practiced with the team and that's got to be a positive for Olivia Miles and Hannah Hidalgo. Plus, for newbies like Kate Koval, Liza Karlen and Liatu King, cool to see one of the Irish's more well-known alums in person.

Liked her talk about accountability ("look in the mirror").

 
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This describes a secret ND vs Toledo scrimmage since it's secret don't read it and if you do forget you read it.

Citron and Westbeld didn't play. The photo is probably from last year. From the Bench by SB Jimbo.

x.com

x.com x.com
 
There was an exhibition with Davenport last night 101-44 score means nothing.

Karlen went out with a ankle injury unknown severity, Citron was in a boot and didn't play, Westbeld & Risch were in street clothes, and Watson is out for the year.

I'm getting this second hand so feel free to correct me if you were there.
 
DallasDomer said:
There was an exhibition with Davenport last night 101-44 score means nothing.

Karlen went out with a ankle injury unknown severity, Citron was in a boot and didn't play, Westbeld & Risch were in street clothes, and Watson is out for the year.

I'm getting this second hand so feel free to correct me if you were there.
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Watson is as I expected, her injury was far too late in the season and it wouldnt be worth it to play maybe 4-5 games.
 
DallasDomer said:
There was an exhibition with Davenport last night 101-44 score means nothing.

Karlen went out with a ankle injury unknown severity, Citron was in a boot and didn't play, Westbeld & Risch were in street clothes, and Watson is out for the year.

I'm getting this second hand so feel free to correct me if you were there.
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Several reports from the Bench came in from folks that were at the game and you're on target:
- The one that concerns me is Citron, who has been wearing that boot for "precautionary" reasons for nearly two weeks.
Apparently Risch was held out of the last two scrimmages due to soreness as a precaution as well. However, is that tied into the surgery she had on her hip?
Given the bad mojo on this team the last few years, I'm turning in a "Show Me" state kind of guy: I'll feel better when I see Citron and Risch with the team warming up on Monday for the first game.
  • Karlen was seen later in the game, of course, in a boot, which is becoming something like aspirin was for us in a certain age (take that!) these days. Seems to be a lower leg (ankle, foot) issue, as opposed to a knee.
  • In any case, the Irish are down to 1 -- that's right, one -- legit forward: Kate Koval, the freshman. King is a spectcular rebounder for her size and Cass Prosper can move into a forward role, but have to hope Karlen comes back and soon.
Koval by the way, sounded good (no video feed on this one) last night.

notredame.rivals.com

Notre Dame WBB limited on numbers but not firepower in exhibition romp

Olivia Miles just misses a triple-double in her first game action since late in the 2022-23 season.
notredame.rivals.com notredame.rivals.com
(Thanks to RISteve for initial posting on The Bench)
 
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To me Miles and Hidalgo are both pure point guards. So, if they are in the backcourt together. I am really curious to see how that works. I think Hidalgo would probably be better off ball than Miles if I had to speculate.
 
Stagnant said:
To me Miles and Hidalgo are both pure point guards. So, if they are in the backcourt together. I am really curious to see how that works. I think Hidalgo would probably be better off ball than Miles if I had to speculate.
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According to Benchers who attended, both PG's took turns directly the offense, but Hidalgo was very much playing off ball strongly.
I'll get to see this through my own eyes come Monday, when the Irish kick their season off. :cool:
 
Stagnant said:
To me Miles and Hidalgo are both pure point guards. So, if they are in the backcourt together. I am really curious to see how that works. I think Hidalgo would probably be better off ball than Miles if I had to speculate.
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Raven and Paopao worked well for us last year and I thing Miles and Hidalgo will work out just as well for y'all.
 
Stagnant said:
To me Miles and Hidalgo are both pure point guards. So, if they are in the backcourt together. I am really curious to see how that works. I think Hidalgo would probably be better off ball than Miles if I had to speculate.
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The way I look at it is Miles is a natural PG who can play SG (inside the arc) and Hidalgo is a natural SG who can play PG. Both combo guards, but Miles is a more natural distributor and Hidalgo is a more natural scorer.

Even with Texas, UConn, and South Carolina’s loaded backcourts there’s no trio I’d rather have than Miles/Hidalgo/Citron. I can’t think of a single thing that group can’t do.
 
yhun89 said:
How on earth did Stanford make his list? Who do they have left??
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They have 8 players who were ranked in the ESPN top 100 remaining on their roster, also 4 overseas students who obviously weren't ranked. They have a lot of talent left, I think they'll be much better than most people expect.
 
Stagnant said:
To me Miles and Hidalgo are both pure point guards. So, if they are in the backcourt together. I am really curious to see how that works. I think Hidalgo would probably be better off ball than Miles if I had to speculate.
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Mmmm, Miles is more of a pure point. Hidalgo is a scoring guard that is in a PG's body. Miles doesn't seem to care about scoring as much as she enjoys getting her teammates involved. I think HH will be the recipient of a lot of passes from Miles. They'll go together fine! More than fine!

Hoping ND a streak of better health this season. And more recruits in the future. Starting the season off in mid-season form in terms of injuries.
 
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A few points on Notre Dame's 105-61 romp over Mercyhurst in their opener.

- Mercyhurst is a smallish Catholic University located in Erie, Pa. (hence the nickname, Lakers) that has just had all its sports join D-1 (save men's hockey which already was). The women's hoopsters are kicking off this new existence with a two-game road trip against ND and DePaul against what will be at least semi-friendly Big sisters. (For instance, Angie Potthoff, the Irish Director of Operations, gave the entire Mercyhurst team and staff a tour of the ND campus.)

- That said, no Mercyhurst players is listed over 5'11". Even with Maddy Westbeld, Kylee Watson and Liza Karlen not playing, the size discrepancy was noticeable. The Lakers were very nervous in the first half, but played better in the second.

- Regardless of whether she was playing against Mercyhurst or the Irish guys practice team, Olivia Miles looked like, well, Olivia Miles; with the patented one hand layups (lefty and righty), out-of-nowhere passes and -- one of her strongest traits -- stellar rebounding, which automatically leads to fast breaks. All her 10 rebounds were defensive.

- Hannah Hidalgo had the quietest 19 points she'll ever have. Little loose with the ball (five TO's) but also had 6 steals.

- Liatu King was just too fast, too strong for this team, shooting 11-13 and grabbing 11 rebounds. She knows to go to open spots on the beak and Miles will find her. She's stronger than I remember.

- Kate Koval shot 9-11 against smaller competition, but -- hey -- she hit the layup opportunities she was given and her footwork was solid. Also had 7 rebounds, 5 blocks and 3 assists.

- Irish need to clean up the turnovers: 5 each by Koval and Hidalgo.

- Emma Risch, another Irish who was out most of last year, had her first game since last November and looked rusty, particularly shooting because...

- Sonia Citron is still out with an ankle injury. Ivey, in her post-game remarks, said Citron will be back soon, which could be anything in Irish-speak. Liza Karlen is expected out a few weeks. Stay tuned for both.

- That said, the Irish play next on Sunday night at Purdue and I wouldn't be surprised to see Citron play at this game.

WBB2425 GM01 MRCY

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fightingirish.com fightingirish.com
 
visitingcock said:
Raven and Paopao worked well for us last year and I thing Miles and Hidalgo will work out just as well for y'all.
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And Uconn made it to the Final four with a depleted roster often playing three point guards at the same time. The key is one of them has to at least have combo guard or shooting guard skills as well, and it has to work on the defensive end as well.

Miles is more pure point and the presumptive PG when both are in. Hidalgo is clearly the better scorer. I think it can work defensively as well, with those two switching positions on that end of the floor. Miles has enough size to guard the 2's, and Hidalgo of course has great quickness to guard small guards.

The issue with a small SG is defense not offense. The Aces are an interesting comparison. Kelsey Plum can play the point but is more a small SG, which could be a liability on defense. It works for the Aces because Gray is a big strong PG, and on the defensive end they switch roles.
 
Dillon77 said:
A few points on Notre Dame's 105-61 romp over Mercyhurst in their opener.

- Mercyhurst is a smallish Catholic University located in Erie, Pa. (hence the nickname, Lakers) that has just had all its sports join D-1 (save men's hockey which already was). The women's hoopsters are kicking off this new existence with a two-game road trip against ND and DePaul against what will be at least semi-friendly Big sisters. (For instance, Angie Potthoff, the Irish Director of Operations, gave the entire Mercyhurst team and staff a tour of the ND campus.)

- That said, no Mercyhurst players is listed over 5'11". Even with Maddy Westbeld, Kylee Watson and Liza Karlen not playing, the size discrepancy was noticeable. The Lakers were very nervous in the first half, but played better in the second.

- Regardless of whether she was playing against Mercyhurst or the Irish guys practice team, Olivia Miles looked like, well, Olivia Miles; with the patented one hand layups (lefty and righty), out-of-nowhere passes and -- one of her strongest traits -- stellar rebounding, which automatically leads to fast breaks. All her 10 rebounds were defensive.

- Hannah Hidalgo had the quietest 19 points she'll ever have. Little loose with the ball (five TO's) but also had 6 steals.

- Liatu King was just too fast, too strong for this team, shooting 11-13 and grabbing 11 rebounds. She knows to go to open spots on the beak and Miles will find her. She's stronger than I remember.

- Kate Koval shot 9-11 against smaller competition, but -- hey -- she hit the layup opportunities she was given and her footwork was solid. Also had 7 rebounds, 5 blocks and 3 assists.

- Irish need to clean up the turnovers: 5 each by Koval and Hidalgo.

- Emma Risch, another Irish who was out most of last year, had her first game since last November and looked rusty, particularly shooting because...

- Sonia Citron is still out with an ankle injury. Ivey, in her post-game remarks, said Citron will be back soon, which could be anything in Irish-speak. Liza Karlen is expected out a few weeks. Stay tuned for both.

- That said, the Irish play next on Sunday night at Purdue and I wouldn't be surprised to see Citron play at this game.

WBB2425 GM01 MRCY

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fightingirish.com fightingirish.com
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Dillon, I hope that ND and UConn are not competing with each other this season for the most players on the bench in street clothes. In our preseason game on Sunday, the Huskies had 6 players out, including: Fudd, Ducharme, KK, Patterson, Griffin & Cheli. All are expected back at some point. But it feels like the team is playing with one hand tied behind its back.

Subsequently, I checked out the Irish box score for the game vs Mercyhurst, and it was immediately apparent that a bunch of familiar names were missing: Westbeld, Watson, Citron, Karlen & Bransford. I gather that all except Bransford will be back. But that can’t feel good for ND fans either.

Hoping that just about everyone is healthy by December 12.
 
oldude said:
Dillon, I hope that ND and UConn are not competing with each other this season for the most players on the bench in street clothes. In our preseason game on Sunday, the Huskies had 6 players out, including: Fudd, Ducharme, KK, Patterson, Griffin & Cheli. All are expected back at some point. But it feels like the team is playing with one hand tied behind its back.

Subsequently, I checked out the Irish box score for the game vs Mercyhurst, and it was immediately apparent that a bunch of familiar names were missing: Westbeld, Watson, Citron, Karlen & Bransford. I gather that all except Bransford will be back. But that can’t feel good for ND fans either.

Hoping that just about everyone is healthy by December 12.
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Debbie Antonelli joked that those five-- as a starting unit -- would probably be ranked!

I doubt Watson will be back this season, because she covered the curse of Notre Dame hoopsters --- late-season ACLs (see Turner, Brianna and Miles, Olivia).

However, I'm sure hoping that Citron is back for the UConn game. Karlen is probably a coin toss and the hope is that Westbeld gets back for the ACC part of the season. Soni vs. Paige is always great to watch.
 
Dillon77 said:
Debbie Antonelli joked that those five-- as a starting unit -- would probably be ranked!

I doubt Watson will be back this season, because she covered the curse of Notre Dame hoopsters --- late-season ACLs (see Turner, Brianna and Miles, Olivia).

However, I'm sure hoping that Citron is back for the UConn game. Karlen is probably a coin toss and the hope is that Westbeld gets back for the ACC part of the season. Soni vs. Paige is always great to watch.
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*cough, Achonwa :(
 
Dillon77 said:
Debbie Antonelli joked that those five-- as a starting unit -- would probably be ranked!

I doubt Watson will be back this season, because she covered the curse of Notre Dame hoopsters --- late-season ACLs (see Turner, Brianna and Miles, Olivia).

However, I'm sure hoping that Citron is back for the UConn game. Karlen is probably a coin toss and the hope is that Westbeld gets back for the ACC part of the season. Soni vs. Paige is always great to watch.
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Honestly, that really sucks. I know everyone has to deal with injuries. But ND & UConn both appear to be snake bitten.
 
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