Not to rain on the parade, but

[Jaybird65]

Are we sure Hurley doesn't become a Union member as well.

He does if that position is slotted into the AAUP family of positions identified as covered by their collective bargaining unit; I doubt the AAUP would give that position up. Randy Edsall is a member of the AAUP

From the AAUP UConn webpage:

SPECIALIST A TITLES
Specialist A titles include: Specialist IVA, Specialist IIIA, Specialist IIA and Specialist IA (high to low).

These are non-tenure track titles for coaches and trainers in the Division of Athletics. The individual’s title is determined by his/her experience, salary requirements and marketability.

The terms of appointment for these positions are specified in the AAUP collective bargaining agreement (see below). Individuals may be hired and/or renewed for multiple year contracts. However, the appointment terms of assistant coaches may not be longer than that of their head coach. In cases where a head coach has a five year appointment, the appointment terms of assistant coaches may vary within the limits of that five year appointment.

Article 13.6 of the AAUP Collective Bargaining Agreement reads in part:

“. . . . Head coaches and assistant coaches may be hired and/or renewed for multiple year contracts. However, in no case may an assistant coach be hired or renewed for a term longer than the head coach in his/her sport.”

“In those instances where a head coach has a five-year appointment, the assistant coaches in that sport may be appointed to varying employment terms which coincide with the employment term of the head coach. When a head coach leaves for any reason before the end of his/her contract, assistant coaches may be terminated. If the decision is to terminate the assistant coach(es), he/she shall continue to be employed until the end of the academic year (June 30) or receive six months’ notice (or salary in lieu thereof), whichever is longer.”

 

[Danzz]

The university can hire whomever they want to hire. With Ollie the only question is how much of the buyout money he takes with him.

 

[huskymedic]

He does if that position is slotted into the AAUP family of positions identified as covered by their collective bargaining unit; I doubt the AAUP would give that position up. Randy Edsall is a member of the AAUP

From the AAUP UConn webpage:

SPECIALIST A TITLES
Specialist A titles include: Specialist IVA, Specialist IIIA, Specialist IIA and Specialist IA (high to low).

These are non-tenure track titles for coaches and trainers in the Division of Athletics. The individual’s title is determined by his/her experience, salary requirements and marketability.

The terms of appointment for these positions are specified in the AAUP collective bargaining agreement (see below). Individuals may be hired and/or renewed for multiple year contracts. However, the appointment terms of assistant coaches may not be longer than that of their head coach. In cases where a head coach has a five year appointment, the appointment terms of assistant coaches may vary within the limits of that five year appointment.

Article 13.6 of the AAUP Collective Bargaining Agreement reads in part:

“. . . . Head coaches and assistant coaches may be hired and/or renewed for multiple year contracts. However, in no case may an assistant coach be hired or renewed for a term longer than the head coach in his/her sport.”

“In those instances where a head coach has a five-year appointment, the assistant coaches in that sport may be appointed to varying employment terms which coincide with the employment term of the head coach. When a head coach leaves for any reason before the end of his/her contract, assistant coaches may be terminated. If the decision is to terminate the assistant coach(es), he/she shall continue to be employed until the end of the academic year (June 30) or receive six months’ notice (or salary in lieu thereof), whichever is longer.”

Yup > Go to Article 37/pg 47 for more clarification on Head Coach, Assistant Head Coach and which sports: http://www.uconnaaup.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2015/11/UCONN-AAUP-CBA-07-01-17-06-30-17.pdf

 

[upstater]

In just about any other context, the AAUP could and would prevent someone from being hired to replace a union member that they still considered to be employed.

Even a chair? We had a chair removed but she didn't lose her job. We needed a new chair and hired outside. And yes, she contested her removal.

 

[Waquoit]

Outside of UConn fans and state of CT budgetary/constituent concerns I don't think anyone gives a rats arse about the Ollie firing anymore and certainly not the 'for cause'/buyout portion.

I disagree, people are following this nationwide. Ollie was one of the few African-American coaches in the top leagues and he was fired for "cause" not long after winning a title. What's more likely to get lost is how awful a coach he was.

 

[JMick]

Take this how you want to. One time I was at the Portland Valero and ran into KO. Me and him were the only people inside of the store. KO bought a pack of mint mentos. The clerk cashed him out and threw away the receipt. ( I was standing right behind him.) Ollie asked if he could have a new receipt printed out. Idk what this means but if this man keeps tabs on his candy expenditures. He's not going down without a fight. Saddle up. This could get ugly.

I thought this was going to be the Aaron judge copypasta lol

 

[HuskyBandDad]

This is a joke. Coaches making 3 mil a year should not be in a union. Things like this is what gives unions a bad rap.

 

[Excalibur]

Even a chair? We had a chair removed but she didn't lose her job. We needed a new chair and hired outside. And yes, she contested her removal.

You've pretty clearly distinguished the situation and I can't comment on any specific set of facts (maybe she would have moved to block the new hire had she won her grievance case), but I'll admit that my first statement was a bit strong ("could and would prevent" should have been "could attempt to prevent"). Ultimately legal action (either through an administrative process or the courts) would be required, and in most circumstances there are protections for the terminated employee under the CBA which would give more ammunition to the effort to stay or block a replacement hire. Those protections don't exist here. Still, I'm concerned about the union's prior statements. They have made clear that their position is that Ollie is still the coach, suspended with pay. Why take that position, knowing that the contract gives the University the unimpeded right to terminate (without cause), unless you're planning to stand behind it?

At the end of the day I just can't get past my own pessimism . . .

 

[huskymedic]

Still, I'm concerned about the union's prior statements. They have made clear that their position is that Ollie is still the coach, suspended with pay. Why take that position, knowing that the contract gives the University the unimpeded right to terminate (without cause), unless you're planning to stand behind it?

#unionrepspeak = #coachspeak

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

... he was fired for "cause" not long after winning a title.

Inexplicably or conveniently for argument's sake, some people may still view "not long after" as 4 entire years later. As pitiful as KO's coaching record and apparently his overall program management was his last 4 full seasons, times have changed how many other people define not long ago.

A change was needed, but college sports is clearly big business and all about what have you done for me lately. Not so different than sales, trading, and many other revenue-dependent occupations, lately ain't 4 years ago. Without any knowledge of the purported "just cause", good luck to people arguing KO's status on that "not long after" basis.

 

[Javjudah]

I think the University knows they will have to pay most, if not all of his remaining salary. The "just cause" is an attempt to try an keep the numbers as low as possible. It's a new day for UCONN Men's Basketball, hopefully Coach Hurley is the answer. I must say I don't agree with the "just cause" firing. He's one of us, his name shouldn't be smeared by UCONN'S brass. They should have just fired him, pay him whatever he's owned on his contract and keep it moving. They're many coaches that has been paid over $15 million plus for 5 or 6 and hasn't won a National Championship. It's very difficult to win a National Championship. With that said, Hurley is getting $19-21 million for 6 years, let's see if he can give us a National Championship. Thanks Kevin Ollie, I wouldn't trade you or the money you got or will get for the past six years. #Thechipiswhatcounts.

 

[Excalibur]

I think the University knows they will have to pay most, if not all of his remaining salary. They "just cause" is an attempt to try an keep the numbers as low as possible. It's a new day for UCONN Men's Basketball, hopefully Coach Hurley is the answer. I must say I don't agree with the "just cause" firing. He's one of us, his name shouldn't be smeared by UCONN brass. They should have just fired him, pay him whatever he's owned on his contract and keep it moving.

Had they done that, we likely don't end up with Hurley.

 

[champs99and04]

I disagree, people are following this nationwide. Ollie was one of the few African-American coaches in the top leagues and he was fired for "cause" not long after winning a title. What's more likely to get lost is how awful a coach he was.

Beyond the fact that it's extremely premature to label him an awful coach, his quality of coaching has nothing to do with the shenanigans that occurred on UConn's end. Unless the school can present a credible case that he failed to reasonably perform his job (a case that will be tough to make seeing how the program was nearly 3 million in the green), they ought to be raked over the coals for this in the media. It's an affront to everything the program has ever claimed to stand for.

Incidentally, him being African-American will do him no favors in this process especially given how codified some of the language already being used has been historically. My prediction is that this won't have the legs nationally to pressure UConn into doing the right thing and the earth will keep spinning, but that's life in America.

 

[JMick]

I think the University knows they will have to pay most, if not all of his remaining salary. They "just cause" is an attempt to try an keep the numbers as low as possible. It's a new day for UCONN Men's Basketball, hopefully Coach Hurley is the answer. I must say I don't agree with the "just cause" firing. He's one of us, his name shouldn't be smeared by UCONN brass. They should have just fired him, pay him whatever he's owned on his contract and keep it moving.

UConn administration put UConn first. That's what I expect them to do.

 

[Husky25]

Do we know for sure that KO and the AAUP are not going to try to throw a monkey wrench into this process? The union has said that they consider Ollie to still be the coach, suspended with pay. Have we ruled out the possibility that they move to block the Hurley hire? Has the University ruled it out?

Yes, we have, and yes, the University obviously has.

Ollie is either released from his duties for cause and get zero or he is released from his duties just because and he is owed a mountain of money. UConn believes the former. Ollie the latter. The money portion of the equation will probably ends up somewhere in the middle, but it has no bearing on the fact that UConn wishes to release him from his duties. I don't think there is any way whatsoever that Ollie expects to work where not one of his supervisors supports him. The suspension is a procedural means to an end.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Take this how you want to. One time I was at the Portland Valero and ran into KO. Me and him were the only people inside of the store. KO bought a pack of mint mentos. The clerk cashed him out and threw away the receipt. ( I was standing right behind him.) Ollie asked if he could have a new receipt printed out. Idk what this means but if this man keeps tabs on his candy expenditures. He's not going down without a fight. Saddle up. This could get ugly.

I missed this earlier, if there ever was a more ludicrous anecdote used to assert a person's behavior I'd love to hear it.
Or more directly, he kept a candy receipt and is therefore diligent, yet not diligent enough to stay in touch with recruits?!

 

[freescooter]

By Hurley accepting the position I highly doubt there are any earth shaking NCAA violations
KO is going to walk away with money - no doubt in my mind about it
Doing it this way was DB's roll of the dice that he could MAYBE save some money rather than just fire him for performance and choke on the full $10Mill
I sure the hell hope he/UConn has learned a lesson and didn't do the same with Dan Hurley's contract but if not perhaps Dan Hurley would not have signed- I don't know

One thing has very little to do with the other. Ollie’s contract apparently had a very broad definition of “cause” so virtually any NCAA violation meets it. And I’m guessing there was something. Likely illegal practices and maybe some recruiting stuff. Hurley is satisfied that the any penalty will be modest, or maybe he realistically thinks this roster is going to take a year or two to remake enough to make the dance so he is willing to risk it for next year with UConn having the ultimate defense in that it can truthfully say “We found that Ollie was violating the rules so we fired him.” How many schools can realistically make such a defense? Most, even UConn are mostly left defending a coach they want to keep or occasionally one who left for a higher profile job (see Calipari, John).

 

[businesslawyer]

How so?

Because the University is ignoring the factfinding/appeal procedures in the union manual, which constitute part of KO's contract, by hiring a replacement before finishing the process. It's the equivalent of having your sentencing before the verdict. It's not good faith.

That doesn't mean UConn shouldn't have bitten on Hurley. It just makes me wonder why they even bothered to claim cause.

 

[Waquoit]

Inexplicably or conveniently for argument's sake, some people may still view "not long after" as 4 entire years later. As pitiful as KO's coaching record and apparently his overall program management was his last 4 full seasons, times have changed how many other people define not long ago.
A change was needed, but college sports is clearly big business and all about what have you done for me lately. Not so different than sales, trading, and many other revenue-dependent occupations, lately ain't 4 years ago. Without any knowledge of the purported "just cause", good luck to people arguing KO's status on that "not long after" basis.

I'm not disagreeing with you but those not as close to the situation might not see it the same way. That's why the sooner we can put this to bed, the better.

 

[CL82]

I think the University knows they will have to pay most, if not all of his remaining salary. The "just cause" is an attempt to try an keep the numbers as low as possible. It's a new day for UCONN Men's Basketball, hopefully Coach Hurley is the answer. I must say I don't agree with the "just cause" firing. He's one of us, his name shouldn't be smeared by UCONN brass. They should have just fired him, pay him whatever he's owned on his contract and keep it moving.

Smeared his name? This is what "smeared his name."

2016-17 Connecticut AAC 33 16 17 .485
2017-18 Connecticut AAC 32 14 18 .438

 

[CL82]

Because the University is ignoring the factfinding/appeal procedures in the union manual, which constitute part of KO's contract, by hiring a replacement before finishing the process. It's the equivalent of having your sentencing before the verdict. It's not good faith.

That doesn't mean UConn shouldn't have bitten on Hurley. It just makes me wonder why they even bothered to claim cause.

The CBA expressly speaks to this. KO is entitled to 6 months notice or salary in lieu of notice.

His employment contract gives him additional benefits, if he is not discharged for "just cause."

UConn isn't limited in the least in replacing him and the fact that they have in no way impacts their just cause argument.

JMHO

(Edited to add BL's post and the discussion regarding it)

 

[dogfan96]

Smeared his name? This is what "smeared his name."

2016-17 Connecticut AAC 33 16 17 .485
2017-18 Connecticut AAC 32 14 18 .438

You know very well what he meant by that. Don't be snarky

 

[CL82]

You know very well what he meant by that. Don't be snarky

I do know what he meant, I just find the suggesting to be meritless. Firing someone for cause isn't "smearing (their) name." Lighten up Francis.

 

[dogfan96]

I do know what he meant, I just find the suggesting to be meritless. Firing someone for cause isn't "smearing (their) name." Lighten up Francis.

If there really is cause and you're not just doing it to try to get out of paying him.

 

[CL82]

If there really is cause and you're not just doing it to try to get out of paying him.

Read the contracts. There is cause.

 

[ctchamps]

@Excalibur the legal wrangling with KO will very unlikely impact Hurley's hire or his ability to hit the ground running. He'll talk to players and coaches he wants and tell them the situation is under control, which it is. The union cannot stop KO's firing. They can only support his monetary demands and argue on his behalf over that point. It comes down to "just cause" or not "just cause" and it's hard to determine how a ruling will go in spite of what we think.

The time it takes to resolve the monies for KO has benefits and detriments to both parties. In the end they'll come to an agreement. As fans it won't be quick enough for some of us and too rushed for others.

And @Javjudah the "no cause" process was more likely pushed by the people who are donating their monies to keep the program going. The AD and university may have pursued a different course of action but had to satisfy the donors.

I can guarantee by the time the season starts the only mention of any of this will be based on how the season goes and that debate will be among the fans and donors. The outside world only wants to see the program die, just as many of us have programs we feel the same about. So I'm not going to waste my time worrying about their thinking over this issue. Just think how quickly the world moved on over the UNC issue, a far greater travesty imo.

I'm more worried about the current roster. As constructed I'm concerned about this upcoming season. One or two impact recruits can change this a lot. That's the focus we should be concerned about and let the powers in charge handle the KO situation

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

I'm not disagreeing with you but those not as close to the situation might not see it the same way. That's why the sooner we can put this to bed, the better.

Agreed on some individuals' potential to view whatever they want with or without much basis in facts (lots of that floating around) & in particularly the latter; get 'er done & move forward.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Because the University is ignoring the factfinding/appeal procedures in the union manual, which constitute part of KO's contract, by hiring a replacement before finishing the process. It's the equivalent of having your sentencing before the verdict. It's not good faith.

That doesn't mean UConn shouldn't have bitten on Hurley. It just makes me wonder why they even bothered to claim cause.

I haven't read the contract (has anyone here?), but presumably they can fire him for cause or for any or no reason (in latter cases they owe the $). So unless there is something in Ollie or the union's contract*, I don't see why hiring someone else is forbidden. And of course there's the simple fact that the duties of the position mean someone needs to fill it - whether than is an assistant stepping in or a new coach under new contract or even a segway into that if old contract legally needs to be dissolved.

*I can't think of any situation where someone was fired and kept their position via an appeal? Maybe a reinstatement & vindication from a probationary period or suspension, but I cannot think of one instance of someone getting fired and reinstated by legal process. There was a firing/replacement of president of Market Basket in MA and then workers and customers revolted/went on strike and he was ultimately reinstated more or less by popular demand although I think he did legally contest his ouster as well.

 

[August_West]

Had they done that, we likely don't end up with Hurley.

Why?

Its just as possible that we end up with Hurley quicker. Remote possibility but just as likely as not getting him.

It cant be about "saving money" because we dont in fact know if we saved any money yet.

 

[Deadrody]

Of course they can't do it on their own. There are clearly legal avenues available for them to try to block or delay the hiring.

No. They have absolutely no recourse as far as delaying or preventing UConn from hiring Dan Hurley. None.

The only thing they're working towards is the best possible settlement for Ollie. They have absolutely no say, no input, no effect on the hiring of another coach.

Sure, I suppose, somehow the AAUP could take UConn to court proactively and try to get a TRO to prevent them from hiring a coach, but they have no basis for that and would get thrown out of court in short order. There is no basis for them to prevent Ollie from being fired outright, so they have no chance of winning on the merits of the their case, therefore, no TRO. But I'm about 99% sure they know that. So, in reality, there is nothing they can do regarding Hurley.