Not to rain on the parade, but

[8893]

It's a distraction, unfinished business. I don't think we can truly move on until as a program until it's done. I have no involvement yet it's gnawing at me.

I'll remain curious, but as long as it didn't queer our hire of a new coach or otherwise affect basketball operations, I don't really care how long it takes them to resolve it. I'd like to see KO get a new job, which I expect would help most of all.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Hiring Hurley makes it harder to win a case for just cause dismissal. The University is well aware of that.

One has nothing to do with other - there is either just cause or there isn't. "Hey, you hired somebody else" isn't a defense to ones own breach of contract.

 

[Excalibur]

The AAUP cannot force or prevent anything. The only avenues Ollie and the union have are to continue appealing to a higher authority. No, they could not prevent UConn from hiring anyone. The only thing they can do is to delay the official firing of an existing union employee until they exhaust all their appeals or give up.

Of course they can't do it on their own. There are clearly legal avenues available for them to try to block or delay the hiring.

 

[Dogdeacon]

It's a distraction, unfinished business. I don't think we can truly move on until as a program until it's done. I have no involvement yet it's gnawing at me.

Outside of UConn fans and state of CT budgetary/constituent concerns I don't think anyone gives a rats arse about the Ollie firing anymore and certainly not the 'for cause'/buyout portion.

Its just interesting to us. Downside of continuing the fight is all on Ollie's reputation and chances of getting another job. To me this comes down to if Ollie thinks/knows he is DONE as a head coach he pushes this as far as he can with negative lawsuit pub to maximize this once in a lifetime payout. If Ollie has any aspirations of righting the ship & restarting his coaching career he takes .25 or less on the dollar and puts the hush on exposure of his failings. Simple, the end and if this lingers its Ollie's fault not UConn. We don't know what we don't know, but judging by the failings on the court, it is a straight line to failed performance widespread behind the scenes.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

On the UConn website, Raphael Chillious remains listed as Associate Head Coach and purportedly is the Interim Coach. Ricky Moore, Dwayne Killings, and Kevin Freeman remain listed with pre-existing titles. With Tom Moore reportedly returning to Storrs, someone's departing unless he's temporarily a Foundation-funded or non-compensated consultant to AD David Benedict or the Foundation.

Formal announcement or not re: Danny Boy, Moore may not be the only consultant advising AD David Benedict or the Foundation. Possible precedent: Disastro still formally employed, yet HCRE 2.0 consulting short-term behind the scenes.

Wrap up the divorce proceedings, wire whatever portion of KO's negotiated kiss goodbye to his account, give him his candy receipt, etc. Onward and upward, Go UConn!

 

[Jaybird65]

Are we sure Hurley doesn't become a Union member as well.

He does if that position is slotted into the AAUP family of positions identified as covered by their collective bargaining unit; I doubt the AAUP would give that position up. Randy Edsall is a member of the AAUP

From the AAUP UConn webpage:

SPECIALIST A TITLES
Specialist A titles include: Specialist IVA, Specialist IIIA, Specialist IIA and Specialist IA (high to low).

These are non-tenure track titles for coaches and trainers in the Division of Athletics. The individual’s title is determined by his/her experience, salary requirements and marketability.

The terms of appointment for these positions are specified in the AAUP collective bargaining agreement (see below). Individuals may be hired and/or renewed for multiple year contracts. However, the appointment terms of assistant coaches may not be longer than that of their head coach. In cases where a head coach has a five year appointment, the appointment terms of assistant coaches may vary within the limits of that five year appointment.

Article 13.6 of the AAUP Collective Bargaining Agreement reads in part:

“. . . . Head coaches and assistant coaches may be hired and/or renewed for multiple year contracts. However, in no case may an assistant coach be hired or renewed for a term longer than the head coach in his/her sport.”

“In those instances where a head coach has a five-year appointment, the assistant coaches in that sport may be appointed to varying employment terms which coincide with the employment term of the head coach. When a head coach leaves for any reason before the end of his/her contract, assistant coaches may be terminated. If the decision is to terminate the assistant coach(es), he/she shall continue to be employed until the end of the academic year (June 30) or receive six months’ notice (or salary in lieu thereof), whichever is longer.”

 

[Danzz]

The university can hire whomever they want to hire. With Ollie the only question is how much of the buyout money he takes with him.

 

[huskymedic]

He does if that position is slotted into the AAUP family of positions identified as covered by their collective bargaining unit; I doubt the AAUP would give that position up. Randy Edsall is a member of the AAUP

From the AAUP UConn webpage:

SPECIALIST A TITLES
Specialist A titles include: Specialist IVA, Specialist IIIA, Specialist IIA and Specialist IA (high to low).

These are non-tenure track titles for coaches and trainers in the Division of Athletics. The individual’s title is determined by his/her experience, salary requirements and marketability.

The terms of appointment for these positions are specified in the AAUP collective bargaining agreement (see below). Individuals may be hired and/or renewed for multiple year contracts. However, the appointment terms of assistant coaches may not be longer than that of their head coach. In cases where a head coach has a five year appointment, the appointment terms of assistant coaches may vary within the limits of that five year appointment.

Article 13.6 of the AAUP Collective Bargaining Agreement reads in part:

“. . . . Head coaches and assistant coaches may be hired and/or renewed for multiple year contracts. However, in no case may an assistant coach be hired or renewed for a term longer than the head coach in his/her sport.”

“In those instances where a head coach has a five-year appointment, the assistant coaches in that sport may be appointed to varying employment terms which coincide with the employment term of the head coach. When a head coach leaves for any reason before the end of his/her contract, assistant coaches may be terminated. If the decision is to terminate the assistant coach(es), he/she shall continue to be employed until the end of the academic year (June 30) or receive six months’ notice (or salary in lieu thereof), whichever is longer.”

Yup > Go to Article 37/pg 47 for more clarification on Head Coach, Assistant Head Coach and which sports: http://www.uconnaaup.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2015/11/UCONN-AAUP-CBA-07-01-17-06-30-17.pdf

 

[upstater]

In just about any other context, the AAUP could and would prevent someone from being hired to replace a union member that they still considered to be employed.

Even a chair? We had a chair removed but she didn't lose her job. We needed a new chair and hired outside. And yes, she contested her removal.

 

[Waquoit]

Outside of UConn fans and state of CT budgetary/constituent concerns I don't think anyone gives a rats arse about the Ollie firing anymore and certainly not the 'for cause'/buyout portion.

I disagree, people are following this nationwide. Ollie was one of the few African-American coaches in the top leagues and he was fired for "cause" not long after winning a title. What's more likely to get lost is how awful a coach he was.

 

[JMick]

Take this how you want to. One time I was at the Portland Valero and ran into KO. Me and him were the only people inside of the store. KO bought a pack of mint mentos. The clerk cashed him out and threw away the receipt. ( I was standing right behind him.) Ollie asked if he could have a new receipt printed out. Idk what this means but if this man keeps tabs on his candy expenditures. He's not going down without a fight. Saddle up. This could get ugly.

I thought this was going to be the Aaron judge copypasta lol

 

[HuskyBandDad]

This is a joke. Coaches making 3 mil a year should not be in a union. Things like this is what gives unions a bad rap.

 

[Excalibur]

Even a chair? We had a chair removed but she didn't lose her job. We needed a new chair and hired outside. And yes, she contested her removal.

You've pretty clearly distinguished the situation and I can't comment on any specific set of facts (maybe she would have moved to block the new hire had she won her grievance case), but I'll admit that my first statement was a bit strong ("could and would prevent" should have been "could attempt to prevent"). Ultimately legal action (either through an administrative process or the courts) would be required, and in most circumstances there are protections for the terminated employee under the CBA which would give more ammunition to the effort to stay or block a replacement hire. Those protections don't exist here. Still, I'm concerned about the union's prior statements. They have made clear that their position is that Ollie is still the coach, suspended with pay. Why take that position, knowing that the contract gives the University the unimpeded right to terminate (without cause), unless you're planning to stand behind it?

At the end of the day I just can't get past my own pessimism . . .

 

[huskymedic]

Still, I'm concerned about the union's prior statements. They have made clear that their position is that Ollie is still the coach, suspended with pay. Why take that position, knowing that the contract gives the University the unimpeded right to terminate (without cause), unless you're planning to stand behind it?

#unionrepspeak = #coachspeak

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

... he was fired for "cause" not long after winning a title.

Inexplicably or conveniently for argument's sake, some people may still view "not long after" as 4 entire years later. As pitiful as KO's coaching record and apparently his overall program management was his last 4 full seasons, times have changed how many other people define not long ago.

A change was needed, but college sports is clearly big business and all about what have you done for me lately. Not so different than sales, trading, and many other revenue-dependent occupations, lately ain't 4 years ago. Without any knowledge of the purported "just cause", good luck to people arguing KO's status on that "not long after" basis.

 

[Javjudah]

I think the University knows they will have to pay most, if not all of his remaining salary. The "just cause" is an attempt to try an keep the numbers as low as possible. It's a new day for UCONN Men's Basketball, hopefully Coach Hurley is the answer. I must say I don't agree with the "just cause" firing. He's one of us, his name shouldn't be smeared by UCONN'S brass. They should have just fired him, pay him whatever he's owned on his contract and keep it moving. They're many coaches that has been paid over $15 million plus for 5 or 6 and hasn't won a National Championship. It's very difficult to win a National Championship. With that said, Hurley is getting $19-21 million for 6 years, let's see if he can give us a National Championship. Thanks Kevin Ollie, I wouldn't trade you or the money you got or will get for the past six years. #Thechipiswhatcounts.

 

[Excalibur]

I think the University knows they will have to pay most, if not all of his remaining salary. They "just cause" is an attempt to try an keep the numbers as low as possible. It's a new day for UCONN Men's Basketball, hopefully Coach Hurley is the answer. I must say I don't agree with the "just cause" firing. He's one of us, his name shouldn't be smeared by UCONN brass. They should have just fired him, pay him whatever he's owned on his contract and keep it moving.

Had they done that, we likely don't end up with Hurley.

 

[champs99and04]

I disagree, people are following this nationwide. Ollie was one of the few African-American coaches in the top leagues and he was fired for "cause" not long after winning a title. What's more likely to get lost is how awful a coach he was.

Beyond the fact that it's extremely premature to label him an awful coach, his quality of coaching has nothing to do with the shenanigans that occurred on UConn's end. Unless the school can present a credible case that he failed to reasonably perform his job (a case that will be tough to make seeing how the program was nearly 3 million in the green), they ought to be raked over the coals for this in the media. It's an affront to everything the program has ever claimed to stand for.

Incidentally, him being African-American will do him no favors in this process especially given how codified some of the language already being used has been historically. My prediction is that this won't have the legs nationally to pressure UConn into doing the right thing and the earth will keep spinning, but that's life in America.

 

[JMick]

I think the University knows they will have to pay most, if not all of his remaining salary. They "just cause" is an attempt to try an keep the numbers as low as possible. It's a new day for UCONN Men's Basketball, hopefully Coach Hurley is the answer. I must say I don't agree with the "just cause" firing. He's one of us, his name shouldn't be smeared by UCONN brass. They should have just fired him, pay him whatever he's owned on his contract and keep it moving.

UConn administration put UConn first. That's what I expect them to do.

 

[Husky25]

Do we know for sure that KO and the AAUP are not going to try to throw a monkey wrench into this process? The union has said that they consider Ollie to still be the coach, suspended with pay. Have we ruled out the possibility that they move to block the Hurley hire? Has the University ruled it out?

Yes, we have, and yes, the University obviously has.

Ollie is either released from his duties for cause and get zero or he is released from his duties just because and he is owed a mountain of money. UConn believes the former. Ollie the latter. The money portion of the equation will probably ends up somewhere in the middle, but it has no bearing on the fact that UConn wishes to release him from his duties. I don't think there is any way whatsoever that Ollie expects to work where not one of his supervisors supports him. The suspension is a procedural means to an end.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Take this how you want to. One time I was at the Portland Valero and ran into KO. Me and him were the only people inside of the store. KO bought a pack of mint mentos. The clerk cashed him out and threw away the receipt. ( I was standing right behind him.) Ollie asked if he could have a new receipt printed out. Idk what this means but if this man keeps tabs on his candy expenditures. He's not going down without a fight. Saddle up. This could get ugly.

I missed this earlier, if there ever was a more ludicrous anecdote used to assert a person's behavior I'd love to hear it.
Or more directly, he kept a candy receipt and is therefore diligent, yet not diligent enough to stay in touch with recruits?!

 

[freescooter]

By Hurley accepting the position I highly doubt there are any earth shaking NCAA violations
KO is going to walk away with money - no doubt in my mind about it
Doing it this way was DB's roll of the dice that he could MAYBE save some money rather than just fire him for performance and choke on the full $10Mill
I sure the hell hope he/UConn has learned a lesson and didn't do the same with DH's contract but if not perhaps DH would not have signed- I don't know

One thing has very little to do with the other. Ollie’s contract apparently had a very broad definition of “cause” so virtually any NCAA violation meets it. And I’m guessing there was something. Likely illegal practices and maybe some recruiting stuff. Hurley is satisfied that the any penalty will be modest, or maybe he realistically thinks this roster is going to take a year or two to remake enough to make the dance so he is willing to risk it for next year with UConn having the ultimate defense in that it can truthfully say “We found that Ollie was violating the rules so we fired him.” How many schools can realistically make such a defense? Most, even UConn are mostly left defending a coach they want to keep or occasionally one who left for a higher profile job (see Calipari, John).

 

[businesslawyer]

How so?

Because the University is ignoring the factfinding/appeal procedures in the union manual, which constitute part of KO's contract, by hiring a replacement before finishing the process. It's the equivalent of having your sentencing before the verdict. It's not good faith.

That doesn't mean UConn shouldn't have bitten on Hurley. It just makes me wonder why they even bothered to claim cause.

 

[Waquoit]

Inexplicably or conveniently for argument's sake, some people may still view "not long after" as 4 entire years later. As pitiful as KO's coaching record and apparently his overall program management was his last 4 full seasons, times have changed how many other people define not long ago.
A change was needed, but college sports is clearly big business and all about what have you done for me lately. Not so different than sales, trading, and many other revenue-dependent occupations, lately ain't 4 years ago. Without any knowledge of the purported "just cause", good luck to people arguing KO's status on that "not long after" basis.

I'm not disagreeing with you but those not as close to the situation might not see it the same way. That's why the sooner we can put this to bed, the better.

 

[CL82]

I think the University knows they will have to pay most, if not all of his remaining salary. The "just cause" is an attempt to try an keep the numbers as low as possible. It's a new day for UCONN Men's Basketball, hopefully Coach Hurley is the answer. I must say I don't agree with the "just cause" firing. He's one of us, his name shouldn't be smeared by UCONN brass. They should have just fired him, pay him whatever he's owned on his contract and keep it moving.

Smeared his name? This is what "smeared his name."

2016-17 Connecticut AAC 33 16 17 .485
2017-18 Connecticut AAC 32 14 18 .438