Not a lot of rumors flying lately

[pj]

You are just kidding right pj? I mean damn, why not add CCSU? They just expanded their stadium and hve been playing good football lately. Plus, they could share The Rent for home games with UConn if they got in the B1G. If they keep referring to themselves as the Blue Devils, the powers that be in the B1G might think they are getting Duke! I see it now, add Buffalo, Stony Brook, and CCSU. It all makes perfect sense.

The premise is that building an AAU research powerhouse is hard, but adding athletics is easy -- it only takes $500 mn. If the prize is $40 mn/yr in B1G revenue, the $500 mn investment would be paid for in 12-15 years. With the money in college sports these days, it's not out of the question that a state as large as New York that lacks a single public university with a major investment in athletics, might decide to go for it at one campus. If they did, it would make sense to reach out to the B1G and say, look, we're willing to make a large investment in athletics. How should we make that investment in order to land in the B1G?

If I'm Jim Delany and hear that question, my answer would be, put the $500 mn into Stony Brook athletics and rebrand it as New York State University.

 

[CAHUSKY]

The article was so wrong about flagships. Berkeley is NOT the flagship of the U. Cal. system. It's the best school, but not the flagship. It's not like U. Illinois CU or U. Texas- Austin.

The SUNY system is most similar to the U. Cal. system. UCLA, San Diego, Berkeley etc. These schools are equivalents.

CAL and Ucla are "equivalent" but CAL is absolutely the flagship.
http://www.berkeley.edu/about/hist/foundations.shtml

 

[Doggie Style]

I won't pretend to know anything about lacrosse but as far as hockey goes, I think UConn can actually do pretty well. Quinnipiac and Yale have shown a CT school can attract talent and Connecticut is actually a pretty good state for high school hockey players. There is a pretty decent Connecticut representation in the NHL, both past and present. If UConn can get some of this talent to play for them, I think the hockey program has a really good chance at taking off relatively quickly.

Dooley, let me jump in here. The way Quinnipiac did it is simple, lower admission standards for kids to come in from Canada to throw around the biscuit. It's that simple, but I don't think Susan allows those standards to slip at all for our upgrading hockey program.

 

[huskymedic]

Dooley, let me jump in here. The way Quinnipiac did it is simple, lower admission standards for kids to come in from Canada to throw around the biscuit. It's that simple, but I don't think Susan allows those standards to slip at all for our upgrading hockey program.

Not disputing that QU had more than half of the roster from north of the border but where's the proof they lowered the academic/admission standards? Does UConn do that for the football players from north of the border?

 

[woomba]

The premise is that building an AAU research powerhouse is hard, but adding athletics is easy -- it only takes $500 mn. If the prize is $40 mn/yr in B1G revenue, the $500 mn investment would be paid for in 12-15 years. With the money in college sports these days, it's not out of the question that a state as large as New York that lacks a single public university with a major investment in athletics, might decide to go for it at one campus. If they did, it would make sense to reach out to the B1G and say, look, we're willing to make a large investment in athletics. How should we make that investment in order to land in the B1G?

If I'm Jim Delany and hear that question, my answer would be, put the $500 mn into Stony Brook athletics and rebrand it as New York State University.

It's not that simple. Stony Brook is probably the best candidate to make the leap - but still difficult due to the semi-dysfunctional nature of the SUNY system. They certainly aren't going to give an official flagship designation anytime soon and I'm sure the other 3 university centers (Albany, Binghamton, Buffalo) will raise high-hell if the rebranding insinuated a flagship designation.

The current plan is to give each of the universities some level of autonomy (the reason why most SUNYs have crap endowments is because there used to be a ban on raising funding - Buffalo has a fair amount because it used to be a pretty powerful private school in the early 1900s back when Buffalo was bustling) and remove the "SUNY" moniker from the names to improve the branding - which is why you don't hear SUNY-Stony Brook or SUNY-Buffalo that often nowadays.

 

[Doggie Style]

Not disputing that QU had more than half of the roster from north of the border but where's the proof they lowered the academic/admission standards? Does UConn do that for the football players from north of the border?

I am aware of the situation. As far as Uconn Football goes I have no inside knowledge of that, but isn't that one of Edsall's gripes which led to his departure? I remember him reaching out to Calhoun to see how to get kids that were on the border in terms of qualifications go. He was frustrated that he had no support from the administration on that level, among other things.

 

[upstater]

CAL and Ucla are "equivalent" but CAL is absolutely the flagship.
http://www.berkeley.edu/about/hist/foundations.shtml

Being first though is not what makes a flagship. It's totally different. A flagship is U. Illinois CU or U. Mass-Amherst or UNC-Chapel Hill. Cal-Berekeley is the first, the oldest, and the best, but not the central school.

It's the same in the SUNY system. These are very big states, and their university system is split (into 4 centers in SUNY's case and 10 schools in Cal's case).

 

[huskymedic]

I am aware of the situation.

Not sure what that means...You have proof that they lowered admission standards @ QU for older Canadian kids or just anecdotal info that someone didn't get in because the spot went to a Canadian with lower SATs/ACTs? Canadian kids make up over 35% of D-1 hockey players in US.

Just an FYI - their two top players are/where American kids (Hartzell/Langouis).

Edit... Not meant to be adversarial.

 

[woomba]

Being first though is not what makes a flagship. It's totally different. A flagship is U. Illinois CU or U. Mass-Amherst or UNC-Chapel Hill. Cal-Berekeley is the first, the oldest, and the best, but not the central school.

It's the same in the SUNY system. These are very big states, and their university system is split (into 4 centers in SUNY's case and 10 schools in Cal's case).

What are you talking about? The UC system calls Berkeley the flagship - it's noted as a flagship in all publications and it uses the state name as the school branding. It is also the most prestigious of all the UC schools.

The SUNY system is unique in that they tried to split to split the system into 4 equal centers instead of designating a flagship but just drawing comparisons between the SUNY system and UC system because they both have a lot of schools doesn't make it so. SUNY system is a unique beast onto itself - making comparisons to other state systems is a bad way to start.

 

[upstater]

What are you talking about? The UC system calls Berkeley the flagship - it's noted as a flagship in all publications and it uses the state name as the school branding. It is also the most prestigious of all the UC schools.

The SUNY system is unique in that they tried to split to split the system into 4 equal centers instead of designating a flagship but just drawing comparisons between the SUNY system and UC system because they both have a lot of schools doesn't make it so. SUNY system is a unique beast onto itself - making comparisons to other state systems is a bad way to start.

...because SUNY was designed after the California system which predates it by 15 years. That's when the other California schools came on board. Every Cal school calls itself U. Cal. because it is U. Cal. The schools are known as Cal-SD, Cal-Davis, Cal-Irvine, Cal-SB, etc. Only UCLA changes up. I know Cal-Berkeley calls itself the flagship, but U. Cal. is run by a Chancellor who is the most powerful figure in the system. He/she makes the decisions over the Cal-Berkeley Prez. and has authority over him. This is not all that common, and NY is one of the states that patterned its system exactly after Cal. The two systems are structurally exactly alike. The comparison is explicit in the very reorganization of SUNY in the 1960s.

 

[woomba]

...because SUNY was designed after the California system which predates it by 15 years. That's when the other California schools came on board. Every Cal school calls itself U. Cal. because it is U. Cal. The schools are known as Cal-SD, Cal-Davis, Cal-Irvine, Cal-SB, etc. Only UCLA changes up. I know Cal-Berkeley calls itself the flagship, but U. Cal. is run by a Chancellor who is the most powerful figure in the system. He/she makes the decisions over the Cal-Berkeley Prez. and has authority over him. This is not all that common, and NY is one of the states that patterned its system exactly after Cal. The two systems are structurally exactly alike. The comparison is explicit in the very reorganization of SUNY in the 1960s.

The way the system is setup and administered has nothing to do with flagships. Why are you trying to compare the SUNY system to UC anyway? What point are you trying to make?

 

[Dooley]

Dooley, let me jump in here. The way Quinnipiac did it is simple, lower admission standards for kids to come in from Canada to throw around the biscuit. It's that simple, but I don't think Susan allows those standards to slip at all for our upgrading hockey program.

Thanks Doggie, I did not know that about QU. Does Yale do that too? I can't imagine they do but I guess you never know. I probably shouldn't pretend to know anything about college hockey either! I guess starting and closing with the "Connecticut has had a pretty good representation in the NHL, past and present" argument should have sufficed!

 

[tzznandrew]

The B1G can get NYC for all intensive purposes with UConn alone. It does not need Cuse. If UConn gets a B1G invite, and i think the BIG could go to 15 without the concerns that Frank the Tank has, there's a strong probability that Cuse will wither on vine that's called the ACC, ala BCU.

I don't think Syracuse basketball ever withers. I do think that UConn and Rutgers in the B1G could really end up hurting Syracuse and BC football even more. But the ACC is, and will continue to be (barring the departure of UNC and Duke) a really really really good basketball conference.

 

[upstater]

The way the system is setup and administered has nothing to do with flagships. Why are you trying to compare the SUNY system to UC anyway? What point are you trying to make?

I have no idea what your first sentence means. Second, I wrote because you said the SUNY system is singular. It's not. Simple as that.

 

[woomba]

Where did I say the SUNY system is singular? We've been talking about Flagship universities. From what you're written so far you seem to define a flagship in terms of administration...so in your eyes UCF and USF is much a flagship as University of Florida?

 

[upstater]

Where did I say the SUNY system is singular? We've been talking about Flagship universities. From what you're written so far you seem to define a flagship in terms of administration...so in your eyes UCF and USF is much a flagship as University of Florida?

It has everything to do with administration. When you have a chancellorship of a system, the universities below take orders from the one. This is entirely different from, say, PSU where the President of Penn State UP runs all the other campuses. Same way in Illinois.

I don't know enough about the Florida set-up to comment on it.

All I know for a fact is that SUNY duplicated the Cal-system in the 1960s, and--believe it or not--there are still people active and around from that era (the founding of the SUNY system) who know the institutional history like the back of their hands. The reputation of these universities were made by throwing huge gobs of money at the most talented faculty around. And they grabbed those people from the Ivies and the Cals.

 

[IMind]

Thanks Doggie, I did not know that about QU. Does Yale do that too? I can't imagine they do but I guess you never know. I probably shouldn't pretend to know anything about college hockey either! I guess starting and closing with the "Connecticut has had a pretty good representation in the NHL, past and present" argument should have sufficed!

Yale does to some extent. I remember having conversations with my neighbour who was a Yale prof and later with my college track coach (who was also a nationally ranked decathelete and was recruited by serveral Ivies) about the Ivy League and recruitment... both indicated that coaches had some latitude in the people they brought in.

 

[woomba]

Here's the definition of flagship according to The College Board :

“Flagship institutions are the best-known institutions in the state, were generally the first to be established, and are frequently the largest and most selective, as well as the most research-intensive public universities.”

Again - administration is a secondary factor and has nothing to do with the Flagship designation.

 

[upstater]

Here's the definition of flagship according to The College Board :

The College Board defines “flagship universities” in the following way: “Flagship institutions are the best-known institutions
in the state, were generally the first to be established, and are frequently the largest and most selective, as well as the most
research-intensive public universities.”

Again - administration is a secondary factor and has nothing to do with the Flagship designation.

The College Board--where I go to for my information.

Which is better known? UCLA or Cal? EVEN. First? Cal. Biggest? UCLA. Most applications? UCLA. Most selective? Cal 18%, UCLA 18.8% Research? Even.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

ZCalifornia has a population of almost 40 million people
Any comparison using Calif and any other state is bogus.



Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[WestCoastHusky]

The College Board--where I go to for my information.

Which is better known? UCLA or Cal? EVEN. First? Cal. Biggest? UCLA. Most applications? UCLA. Most selective? Cal 18%, UCLA 18.8% Research? Even.

Both CAL and UCLA are excellent schools. As a Californian, I would consider both the flagships of the California if there is such a thing. CA is big enough to have two flagship universities.

 

[CL82]

It has everything to do with administration. When you have a chancellorship of a system, the universities below take orders from the one. This is entirely different from, say, PSU where the President of Penn State UP runs all the other campuses. Same way in Illinois.

I don't know enough about the Florida set-up to comment on it.

All I know for a fact is that SUNY duplicated the Cal-system in the 1960s, and--believe it or not--there are still people active and around from that era (the founding of the SUNY system) who know the institutional history like the back of their hands. The reputation of these universities were made by throwing huge gobs of money at the most talented faculty around. And they grabbed those people from the Ivies and the Cals.

Is UConn emulating that strategy?

 

[upstater]

ZCalifornia has a population of almost 40 million people
Any comparison using Calif and any other state is bogus.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

And that has literally nothing to do with this discussion. We're not comparing states but university systems. New York basically took Cal's system in the 1960s, carved a rubber stamp, and then smacked that sucker down in Albany.

 

[upstater]

Both CAL and UCLA are excellent schools. As a Californian, I would consider both the flagships of the California if there is such a thing. CA is big enough to have two flagship universities.

It is indeed. What makes the state unusual however is that both are lead by the same person.

I'd argue there are more than 2 too. Put San Diego up against those two and you get a similar size, research intensity, funding, and even acceptance rate.

 

[upstater]

Is UConn emulating that strategy?

No, UConn is doing the exact opposite, which is building up Storrs.

NY has 20 million people. Divide that by 4 universities and you have 5 million people per research university.

Connecticut has 3.5 million people per research university.

Similar in numbers, but the set-up is different. Put it this way--the President of UB doesn't even have the right to set his own tuition rate, as that is decided by SUNY-Central and Chancellor Zimpher. Similar to what goes on in U. Cal. But in Conn., Herbst just unilaterally raised tuition.