North Carolina lost to whom?

[msf22b]

Gardner-Webb (never heard of that esteemed institution) outscored the cheats 30-14 in the 4th quarter to win by a whisker.

Wowsa!

 

[msf22b]

Artis Gilmore and John Drew, former NBA standouts attended that esteemed University.
Seems like BB is in the pedigree

The Fat lady is warming up for poor Syl.

 

[donalddoowop]

Artis Gilmore and John Drew, former NBA standouts attended that esteemed University.
Seems like BB is in the pedigree

The Fat lady is warming up for poor Syl.

Artis Gilmore attended Jacksonville.

 

[triaddukefan]

Gardner-Webb (never heard of that esteemed institution) outscored the cheats 30-14 in the 4th quarter to win by a whisker.

Wowsa!

What do you have against the Tarheels to refer to them as the cheats?

 

[triaddukefan]

Artis Gilmore attended Jacksonville.

He started at Gardner Webb then finished at Jacksonville

 

[MilfordHusky]

Is Gardner Webb related to Spud Webb?

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Is Gardner Webb related to Spud Webb?

I think they're somewhere in Western North Carolina.

 

[msf22b]

Reminds me of Peter Schickele's graduate center in music at the University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople.

 

[jdubct]

Seems like it's going to be a long difficult season for North Carolina.

 

[billnaples]

What do you have against the Tarheels to refer to them as the cheats?

I think the reference is to the 18 year academic fraud qualifies. Given that the NCAA has failed to act thus far much of UNC athletics is operating under the cloud provided by the near two decades of documented cheating. Are today's players responsible for it? Absolutely not. But the NCAA rarely is able to punish the right people. In this case the school was the cheater, not most of the athletes as you may recall there were over 3000 students who were involved with the bogus classes and a little less than half were also athletes.

 

[Bgillon]

I think the reference is to the 18 year academic fraud qualifies. Given that the NCAA has failed to act thus far much of UNC athletics is operating under the cloud provided by the near two decades of documented cheating. Are today's players responsible for it? Absolutely not. But the NCAA rarely is able to punish the right people. In this case the school was the cheater, not most of the athletes as you may recall there were over 3000 students who were involved with the bogus classes and a little less than half were also athletes.

A better question is "Are the current coaches, faculty, and administration responsible for the 18 years of cheating? Penalize the program and let all the athletes transfer with immediate eligibility. Case closed. Done!

 

[HuskyNan]

I think the reference is to the 18 year academic fraud qualifies. Given that the NCAA has failed to act thus far much of UNC athletics is operating under the cloud provided by the near two decades of documented cheating. Are today's players responsible for it? Absolutely not. But the NCAA rarely is able to punish the right people. In this case the school was the cheater, not most of the athletes as you may recall there were over 3000 students who were involved with the bogus classes and a little less than half were also athletes.

Triad's comment was tongue-in-cheek. He has been known to refer to North Carolina as UNC once or twice.

 

[Huskies Rule]

A better question is "Are the current coaches, faculty, and administration responsible for the 18 years of cheating? Penalize the program and let all the athletes transfer with immediate eligibility. Case closed. Done!

Kenneth Wainstein's damning investigative report points to both faculty, advisers and administration knowledge of this two-decade scandal. As for the coaches during that time, Sylvia Hatchell has been head coach at UNC since 1986, and associate head coach Andrew Calder was with her from day one, almost 30 years ago. Although from what I have read there has been no direct implication of Hatchell and Calder, if they knew absolutely nothing about the endemic academic fraud going on (and I kind of doubt they didn't), they certainly should have.

Wainstein's investigation covers 1989-2011, so assuming this rampant fraud ended around 4 years ago, it would be completely unfair to penalize any current athletes (their inanity in choosing to enroll at UNC notwithstanding).

Hatchell and Calder should be shipped off immediately in a two-for-one swap with Gardner-Webb's Rick Reeves.

 

[topogigio]

Gardner-Webb men's basketball team upset Kentucky, at Rupp Arena, back in 2007. They do have a basketball history. That said, the Tar Heel women are in for a tough year. Many of their players bailed in light of the investigation. It is the NC men's team, and the institution as a whole, that needs to pay the price for the cheating!

Gardner-Webb (never heard of that esteemed institution) outscored the cheats 30-14 in the 4th quarter to win by a whisker.

Wowsa!

 

[billnaples]

Triad's comment was tongue-in-cheek. He has been known to refer to North Carolina as UNC once or twice.

Nan - I have only been in the BY since August and had not run across a similar comment from Triad so had no knowledge of him using the term more in jest than not. That said I still believe that the NCAA has grossly dragged its' collective feet in lowering the effective boom on the school. If they can ban the UConn men from the tourney for the APR "violation" and ignore that none of the roster nor the head coach who were responsible when the failure occurred were still active with the program. UNC deserves the death sentence. Don't thiink the NCAA has the guts to pull the trigger.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I think the reference is to the 18 year academic fraud qualifies. Given that the NCAA has failed to act thus far much of UNC athletics is operating under the cloud provided by the near two decades of documented cheating. Are today's players responsible for it? Absolutely not. But the NCAA rarely is able to punish the right people. In this case the school was the cheater, not most of the athletes as you may recall there were over 3000 students who were involved with the bogus classes and a little less than half were also athletes.

It is almost criminal to punish the NC players and students of TODAY for that which happened in the past. Many students or athletes involved are gone. The singular question remains --NC as an institution must receive sanctions--but who to sanction and what will they be. Therein is the rub. Are the coaches, who have been there over 5 years culpable? How far do you go to decimate the Administration, faculty, staffs as knowingly involved. Who is willing to fall on the sword? Someone must be held accountable.
If you are the NCAA what is YOUR decision. Remember Billnaples this is rhetorical, not argumentative!!! Sorry, Bill your positing brought up all these thoughts--you were that thought provoking!!!

 

[BroadwayVa]

Nan - I have only been in the BY since August and had not run across a similar comment from Triad so had no knowledge of him using the term more in jest than not. That said I still believe that the NCAA has grossly dragged its' collective feet in lowering the effective boom on the school. If they can ban the UConn men from the tourney for the APR "violation" and ignore that none of the roster nor the head coach who were responsible when the failure occurred were still active with the program. UNC deserves the death sentence. Don't thiink the NCAA has the guts to pull the trigger.

Bill/Nan--NC -Cheat seems to come easily and often with the press they have properly gotten. Also, APR, Sexism, Genderism, etc are typically done by one or two coaches, faculty, not systemic. NC, via investigation, was systemic. much harder to come up with a punishment. See my previous posting.

 

[billnaples]

It is almost criminal to punish the NC players and students of TODAY for that which happened in the past. Many students or athletes involved are gone. The singular question remains --NC as an institution must receive sanctions--but who to sanction and what will they be. Therein is the rub. Are the coaches, who have been there over 5 years culpable? How far do you go to decimate the Administration, faculty, staffs as knowingly involved. Who is willing to fall on the sword? Someone must be held accountable.
If you are the NCAA what is YOUR decision. Remember Billnaples this is rhetorical, not argumentative!!! Sorry, Bill your positing brought up all these thoughts--you were that thought provoking!!!

No apology needed or sought. Fair question. If the events as I have been lead to believe happened (18 years, 3000 plus students, a mix of athletes and "regular" students) then yes UNC should get sanctions equal to the SUM of the SMU and Penn St. treatments. Current student athletes should be allowed to transfer to any institution to which they would otherwise qualify. Current staff should have their contracts honored for both length and compensation even if they decide to seek similar positions at other schools. Had this fraud gone on for a couple of years there might be some wiggle room on sanctions. But 18 years, too long to not have many many people who did or should have known and stopped it. If you want to put a picture in the NCAA rule book that defines "lack of institutional control" then as a comedian once offered......Here's your sign!!!

 

[BroadwayVa]

No apology needed or sought. Fair question. If the events as I have been lead to believe happened (18 years, 3000 plus students, a mix of athletes and "regular" students) then yes UNC should get sanctions equal to the SUM of the SMU and Penn St. treatments. Current student athletes should be allowed to transfer to any institution to which they would otherwise qualify. Current staff should have their contracts honored for both length and compensation even if they decide to seek similar positions at other schools. Had this fraud gone on for a couple of years there might be some wiggle room on sanctions. But 18 years, too long to not have many many people who did or should have known and stopped it. If you want to put a picture in the NCAA rule book that defines "lack of institutional control" then as a comedian once offered.Here's your sign!!!

Once more agreement. But why should those kids going to UNC or signed up to play for UNC be punished. The kids attending UNC have an expectationmaybe a right to expect that they will have a number of sports teams to cheer for. Why too should a kid who signed up to play for UNC be required or offered the option to play for anyone else? They should field teams. I think (only a belief) that there is sufficient subjective knowledge that the coaches (Female BB) knew of and accepted the "perks" of academic cheating. Clean house with any coach remotely, possibly involved. I'm typically against punishment with out absolute proof, but not in this case. But the Alum's and Administration are not without sins.
Academic cheating --Webster ---Blue NC with a diagonal bar

 

[triaddukefan]

Im sorry for leading this thread down the wrong path

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Im sorry for leading this thread down the wrong path

I don't think it can be dragged back, either.

My only offering is that the HC of Gardner-Webb, Rick Reeves, has been a D1 head coach for 25 years, with about a .500 record. I suspect his experience was probably a factor in his team hanging in there.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Getting back to Gardner-Webb, they really aren't that bad a team. They were among the top 300 teams in the Sagarin index last year, even if at #296 it was pretty close. Now if they had been at #300-#349, then it would have been just atrocious to lose to them.

 

[HuskyNan]

Im sorry for leading this thread down the wrong path

No need to apologize - hijacking a thread is a Boneyard tradition.

Once more agreement. But why should those kids going to UNC or signed up to play for UNC be punished.

The 2009-2010 UConn men's team was penalized for the team's poor APR from three or four years previous. UConn's - and Connecticut governors's - repeated pointing out that it was unfair to punish current students for something that had happened years before had zero effect. And IIRC only UConn and one other school had been punished in this way. The NCAA is often slow, bumbling, capricious, and inconsistent. It does whatever the heck it wants and ignores anyone's complaints. Other than that, it's fine.

 

[billnaples]

Im sorry for leading this thread down the wrong path

A thread often goes where an off hand comment strikes the emotions of a follower/reader. Such was the case with UNC and cheating. Didn't matter your intent when you threw that line down on the screen. So it is written.

 

[BroadwayVa]

No need to apologize - hijacking a thread is a Boneyard tradition.


The 2009-2010 UConn men's team was penalized for the team's poor APR from three or four years previous. UConn's - and Connecticut governors's - repeated pointing out that it was unfair to punish current students for something that had happened years before had zero effect. And IIRC only UConn and one other school had been punished in this way. The NCAA is often slow, bumbling, capricious, and inconsistent. It does whatever the heck it wants and ignores anyone's complaints. Other than that, it's fine.

I can't and won't disagree with this but I was trying to show the problem the NCAA has is defining UNC punishment: who gets punished (current ? most pasts are gone), certainly not the current student population, they are not part of the problem. How do you define (it can be done but you may take some good with the bad) those in Administration, staff, teaching to be punished. \
APR's are easily defined by record.
I fully believe NC must be sanctioned but not the current students or new crop of student athletes
If I had my way the NCAA would be disbanded and reformed as a smaller more responsive organization.