North Carolina lost to whom?

[ucbart]

I feel bad for the UNC players. They haven't done anything wrong and they chose what they thought would have been a top notch women's basketball program. I feel a little bad for Sylvia too. I think she will end up being the lame duck of the athletics program, while the men's teams coaches will have nothing happen to them.

 

[huskyd]

Before we abandon the subject of lesser known schools, here's one I only heard about last year: Grand Canyon University. The reason I came across the "Lopes" (short for cantaloupe? antelope?) was because ESPN insists on televising every men's football and basketball contest in the nation (at the expense of relegating SC/OSU to ESPN 3). All kinds of wonderous unknowns abound in these games. GCU is a Christian college in (where else?) AZ. Given its proximity to the big hole in the ground, I think a more interesting nickname might have been proposed . . .

 

[Gus Mahler]

Before we abandon the subject of lesser known schools, here's one I only heard about last year: Grand Canyon University. The reason I came across the "Lopes" (short for cantaloupe? antelope?) was because ESPN insists on televising every men's football and basketball contest in the nation (at the expense of relegating SC/OSU to ESPN 3). All kinds of wonderous unknowns abound in these games. GCU is a Christian college in (where else?) AZ. Given its proximity to the big hole in the ground, I think a more interesting nickname might have been proposed . . .

Jackalopes?

I don't like The Eroders. How about The Strata?

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Before we abandon the subject of lesser known schools, here's one I only heard about last year: Grand Canyon University. The reason I came across the "Lopes" (short for cantaloupe? antelope?) was because ESPN insists on televising every men's football and basketball contest in the nation (at the expense of relegating SC/OSU to ESPN 3). All kinds of wonderous unknowns abound in these games. GCU is a Christian college in (where else?) AZ. Given its proximity to the big hole in the ground, I think a more interesting nickname might have been proposed . . .

You know you can't elope with a cantaloupe, but you can do with a honey-do. Kidding aside, I think they're the antelopes.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Before we abandon the subject of lesser known schools, here's one I only heard about last year: Grand Canyon University. The reason I came across the "Lopes" (short for cantaloupe? antelope?) was because ESPN insists on televising every men's football and basketball contest in the nation (at the expense of relegating SC/OSU to ESPN 3). All kinds of wonderous unknowns abound in these games. GCU is a Christian college in (where else?) AZ. Given its proximity to the big hole in the ground, I think a more interesting nickname might have been proposed . . .

Even more interesting is that Grand Canyon University is a for-profit university. It was founded as a non-profit, but a little over a decade ago sold out to investors. It has been exploring return to non-profit status.

It is transitioning to DI. Excuse my spelling if wrong, but they hired the very popular ex-Phoenix Sun player Dan Majarle as head Men's Basketball Coach a couple of years ago.

 

[BlueDevils]

UNC loses again!!!!!! This time to Oregon 79-77

 

[MilfordHusky]

To answer the OP's question: North Carolina lost to whom? Um, everyone they have played so far.

I too feel badly for the players and Sylvia. They had to deal with Sylvia's illness and then the departure of Diamond and the other recruits she brought in as part of the Cinco de Mayo coup.

 

[huskyd]

Even more interesting is that Grand Canyon University is a for-profit university. It was founded as a non-profit, but a little over a decade ago sold out to investors. It has been exploring return to non-profit status.

It is transitioning to DI. Excuse my spelling if wrong, but they hired the very popular ex-Phoenix Sun player Dan Majarle as head Men's Basketball Coach a couple of years ago.

What are the odds of shaking a knowledgeable GCU person out of a tree? Thanks for the in-put, KB. The BY has got to be the go-to site for every sort of ephemera. Nothing is beyond the ken of our millions of posters . . .

 

[triaddukefan]

Even more interesting is that Grand Canyon University is a for-profit university. It was founded as a non-profit, but a little over a decade ago sold out to investors. It has been exploring return to non-profit status.

It is transitioning to DI. Excuse my spelling if wrong, but they hired the very popular ex-Phoenix Sun player Dan Majarle as head Men's Basketball Coach a couple of years ago.

One of my favorite Duke players Krystal Thomas is in her first season as a assistant coach for the women's team.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

Might be several teams getting their first win in Carmichael this season.

 

[triaddukefan]

Might be several teams getting their first win in Carmichael this season.

Their problem is that they only play 6 players....... not sure when Xavier's daughter will be ready to play.

 

[j66kicker]

Even more interesting is that Grand Canyon University is a for-profit university. It was founded as a non-profit, but a little over a decade ago sold out to investors. It has been exploring return to non-profit status.

It is transitioning to DI. Excuse my spelling if wrong, but they hired the very popular ex-Phoenix Sun player Dan Majarle as head Men's Basketball Coach a couple of years ago.

The PAC-12, basically on behalf of Arizona and Arizona State, fought allowing GCU to go D1. GCU is a private school that offers lower tuition than the AZ state universities, using a business model which includes about 10,000 on-campus students and 50,000 online students. Last year they outspent ASU on marketing by $50 million (just Google anything including "Grand Canyon University" - they will have all the paid ads at the top and at least the first two pages of natural search results).

ASU and UofA feel threatened by this model since they can't compete - they are large, inefficient nonprofit government institutions whose tuition is spiraling out of control. GCU going D1 just gives them more credibility to compete for local students. So the PAC-12 tried to block the D1 move by saying for-profit schools should not be allowed into D1 because of how athletics fit into their academic missions - that they are not accountable to their students or faculties - only to their shareholders. GCU is now in the middle of a 4-year probationary D1 period and competes in the WAC. But ASU and UofA continue to boycott scheduling any games with them in any sport.

 

[DobbsRover2]

So I guess the big question here if if at 20/22, are the Tarheels are ranked too high? Personally I'd have them a bit lower, like maybe 220/222. Hard to say.

 

[huskiemaniac]

No need to apologize - hijacking a thread is a Boneyard tradition.


The 2009-2010 UConn men's team was penalized for the team's poor APR from three or four years previous. UConn's - and Connecticut governors's - repeated pointing out that it was unfair to punish current students for something that had happened years before had zero effect. And IIRC only UConn and one other school had been punished in this way. The NCAA is often slow, bumbling, capricious, and inconsistent. It does whatever the heck it wants and ignores anyone's complaints. Other than that, it's fine.

They way Uconn was punished was unfair for soo many reasons...

 

[ochoopsfan]

The PAC-12, basically on behalf of Arizona and Arizona State, fought allowing GCU to go D1. GCU is a private school that offers lower tuition than the AZ state universities, using a business model which includes about 10,000 on-campus students and 50,000 online students. Last year they outspent ASU on marketing by $50 million (just Google anything including "Grand Canyon University" - they will have all the paid ads at the top and at least the first two pages of natural search results).

ASU and UofA feel threatened by this model since they can't compete - they are large, inefficient nonprofit government institutions whose tuition is spiraling out of control. GCU going D1 just gives them more credibility to compete for local students. So the PAC-12 tried to block the D1 move by saying for-profit schools should not be allowed into D1 because of how athletics fit into their academic missions - that they are not accountable to their students or faculties - only to their shareholders. GCU is now in the middle of a 4-year probationary D1 period and competes in the WAC. But ASU and UofA continue to boycott scheduling any games with them in any sport.

I was at a WBB game two years ago at GCU. They had a player, maybe two, from OC that I watched play in HS. I actually think the coach is pretty good, considering the talent they get. He ran some solid sets that I wouldnt think a team with less talent could run. They become a good 2nd game if your team is going to play one of the Arizona Pac12 teams, and dont want to make a trip that far for one game. Hawaii just played GCU, but instead of playing UA or ASU they played their 2nd game vs Northern Arizona, which I believe is in Flagstaff, a few hours drive from Phoenix.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I think the reference is to the 18 year academic fraud qualifies. Given that the NCAA has failed to act thus far much of UNC athletics is operating under the cloud provided by the near two decades of documented cheating. Are today's players responsible for it? Absolutely not. But the NCAA rarely is able to punish the right people. In this case the school was the cheater, not most of the athletes as you may recall there were over 3000 students who were involved with the bogus classes and a little less than half were also athletes.

My opinion is in order to punish the practices of the university, you have to punish them by denying them scholarships, by omitting them from eligibility to the NCAA tournament in March, by unfortunately possibly hurting present student athletes who may have never done anything wrong. You have to hurt them in the pocketbook because that's partially why they would have allowed athletes who weren't capable of taking their own exams into school, so as to benefit by the gate receipts of advancing well into the NCAA's and also to improve the image of the school nationally by success in various athletic endeavors. You should allow student athletes who want to transfer, to be able to without any restrictions and without sitting any length of time before they were eligible. North Carolina getting away with this would be a massive black eye to the integrity of the NCAA.

 

[Buzzyboy]

It is almost criminal to punish the NC players and students of TODAY for that which happened in the past. Many students or athletes involved are gone. The singular question remains --NC as an institution must receive sanctions--but who to sanction and what will they be. Therein is the rub. Are the coaches, who have been there over 5 years culpable? How far do you go to decimate the Administration, faculty, staffs as knowingly involved. Who is willing to fall on the sword? Someone must be held accountable.
If you are the NCAA what is YOUR decision. Remember Billnaples this is rhetorical, not argumentative!!! Sorry, Bill your positing brought up all these thoughts--you were that thought provoking!!!

I think that if you punished North Carolina but made the penalties effective next year and beyond, you wouldn't punish any of these present students, as long as you gave them an opportunity to transfer anywhere they were able to without any restrictions so as to not bear the brunt of those future penalties. The penalties should be beyond anything seen before by the NCAA because of how bad they are and how long they've been allowed to go on. North Carolina's athletic programs should be smacked and affected for a very long time since their crimes were awful and continued that length of time. If student athletes chose to stay there to be "loyal" to a school that perpetrated these activities for that long, so be it. To do nothing or give them a simple little slap because you don't want to punish these present kids would absolutely send a horrible message to any and everyone. This is 1000 times worse than what is perceived to be deflategate cheating and it's factual, not some maybe or probably type thing.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

Tar Heels lose again


This time to Pacific at home 66-63

 

[DobbsRover2]

Tar Heels lose again


This time to Pacific at home 66-63

I'm guessing they should drop back about 6 places in the rankings to 226/228. May need to get out my cheat sheet to check on the numbers.

 

[Zorro]

No apology needed or sought. Fair question. If the events as I have been lead to believe happened (18 years, 3000 plus students, a mix of athletes and "regular" students) then yes UNC should get sanctions equal to the SUM of the SMU and Penn St. treatments. Current student athletes should be allowed to transfer to any institution to which they would otherwise qualify. Current staff should have their contracts honored for both length and compensation even if they decide to seek similar positions at other schools. Had this fraud gone on for a couple of years there might be some wiggle room on sanctions. But 18 years, too long to not have many many people who did or should have known and stopped it. If you want to put a picture in the NCAA rule book that defines "lack of institutional control" then as a comedian once offered.Here's your sign!!!

I have been following the case fairly closely, and it appears that the Wainstein report, damning as it was, really only scratched the surface. Too many top UC officials, sports AND academic, were not questioned and too many very interesting follow-up questions were not asked. I think that the NCAA should drop the hammer on the University, let the kids who want to transfer without any waiting period, and the student body will just have to deal with it. Let athletics become secondary to education for a while at least. Incidentally, the 3000 or so non-athletes who enjoyed the ghost classes only got in on the deal because the situation leaked to the Greeks and they more or less blackmailed their way into the scam (or so I have been led to believe). The whole thing started as a way of preserving eligibility and freeing up "student athletes" for the more important work of practicing their athletic skills.

 

[Zorro]

No apology needed or sought. Fair question. If the events as I have been lead to believe happened (18 years, 3000 plus students, a mix of athletes and "regular" students) then yes UNC should get sanctions equal to the SUM of the SMU and Penn St. treatments. Current student athletes should be allowed to transfer to any institution to which they would otherwise qualify. Current staff should have their contracts honored for both length and compensation even if they decide to seek similar positions at other schools. Had this fraud gone on for a couple of years there might be some wiggle room on sanctions. But 18 years, too long to not have many many people who did or should have known and stopped it. If you want to put a picture in the NCAA rule book that defines "lack of institutional control" then as a comedian once offered.Here's your sign!!!

I have been following the case fairly closely, and it appears that the Wainstein report, damning as it was, really only scratched the surface. Too many top UC officials, sports AND academic, were not questioned and too many very interesting follow-up questions were not asked. Much more has come to light since then. I think that the NCAA should drop the hammer on the University, let the kids who want to transfer without any waiting period, and the student body will just have to deal with it. Let athletics become secondary to education for a while at least. Incidentally, the 3000 or so non-athletes who enjoyed the ghost classes only got in on the deal because the situation leaked to the Greeks and they more or less blackmailed their way into the scam (or so I have been led to believe). The whole thing started as a way of preserving eligibility and freeing up "student athletes" for the more important work of practicing their athletic skills.

 

[CTtransplant]

I'm guessing they should drop back about 6 places in the rankings to 226/228. May need to get out my cheat sheet to check on the numbers.

Well, Massey has Pacific ranked at 120, so the outcome would have been predictable with a rating below 220! Pretty ugly in Chapel Hill.

 

[billnaples]

I can't and won't disagree with this but I was trying to show the problem the NCAA has is defining UNC punishment: who gets punished (current ? most pasts are gone), certainly not the current student population, they are not part of the problem. How do you define (it can be done but you may take some good with the bad) those in Administration, staff, teaching to be punished. \
APR's are easily defined by record.
I fully believe NC must be sanctioned but not the current students or new crop of student athletes
If I had my way the NCAA would be disbanded and reformed as a smaller more responsive organization.

On my AOL News screen today was an article about the "20 worst sports scandals" and in skimming thru the choices they had included there were three that involved NCAA sanctions (none of which included the UNC programs). I have previously mentioned two of them as examples of the NCAA not caring a whole bunch about who was impacted by their sanctions, Penn St. and SMU. The violations in the SMU case involved booster money and of course PSU was the sexual abuse by a former assistant of non university. The case I had missed was the SoCal case over Reggie Bush. Both Bush and the staff as I recall that had been involved were gone from the school. So what did the NCAA do for this violation involving one student? A 2 year post season ban, a reduction in scholarships, the vacating of all wins in which Bush played, and the final piece was to remove the National Championship title from the 2004 season. Oh and Bush gave back his Heisman. Given those cases as a back drop do you still think UNC in any manner should get to continue to participate in the world of intercollegiate sports.

 

[sarals24]

Public vs. private...the NCAA won't do anything to UNC. Just watch.

 

[BroadwayVa]

On my AOL News screen today was an article about the "20 worst sports scandals" and in skimming thru the choices they had included there were three that involved NCAA sanctions (none of which included the UNC programs). I have previously mentioned two of them as examples of the NCAA not caring a whole bunch about who was impacted by their sanctions, Penn St. and SMU. The violations in the SMU case involved booster money and of course PSU was the sexual abuse by a former assistant of non university. The case I had missed was the SoCal case over Reggie Bush. Both Bush and the staff as I recall that had been involved were gone from the school. So what did the NCAA do for this violation involving one student? A 2 year post season ban, a reduction in scholarships, the vacating of all wins in which Bush played, and the final piece was to remove the National Championship title from the 2004 season. Oh and Bush gave back his Heisman. Given those cases as a back drop do you still think UNC in any manner should get to continue to participate in the world of intercollegiate sports.[/QUOTE


The NCAA has never been known for "justice". The Penn St "Scandal" to me was a legal issue out side of the NCAA's purvue.
The issue with UNC is that it was/is Systemic--top to bottom covered up my a multitude of professional,athletic, administrative, and just plain folks---The NCAA, isn't dumb. It knows if it shuts down the University in sports--they will be in court for the next 20 years up to and including the Supreme court.
What everyone is looking for is a MORAL--EQUAL (in their minds) solution. Moral and equal are subjective, not legal or justice. Most are presenting old cases that aroused their ire because it was their school. The past is gone forever. Using old single issues won't fly with a SYSTEMIC problem.
I won't supply a judgement--that is what the courts will do--will it be just--hel- no. It will be A SOLUTION and that is probably the best those looking for justice can expect.
WE can discuss this until the cows come home, or the world is full of REAL JUSTICE solutions and the fact is nothing we say or do here will impact the NCAA's ruling. So this is MY final word on the subject. Those who will listen shall hear, those that don't see are not always blind. Use that in thinking of the NCAA or the Refs in the DePaul game.
I do now and have always respected your views and opinions. Thanks for using facts and not conjecture.