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- Thread starter The Viking
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I think the assumption is that the FOX/ESPN payouts would stay the same & the $50MM from FedEx would cover the payout to Cinci & Memphis.
That keeps the current 10 teams whole at $25MM & pays each of Cinci & Memphis $25MM each as well
CTMike
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Should we start a GoFundMe or Kickstarter account?
I do not think that the proposition in detail he puts forth is correct(way to simple), but the spirit of it may very well be correct. Fed Ex might sponsor that game, but i think it's deeper than that. Remember, Cincy has a corporation that spends 6 billion dollars on advertising that's a 5 or 10 minute drive from it's campus. There is always someone bigger than you. schools, conference, tv, sponsors. Guess whose money it is to begin with? I think Cincy was fine being in the Big East and wished for it to continue until Pitt and Syc got cold feet. Ultimately, they have the resources in that city to quietly push the machine. When you agree to build an 85 mm expansion which is mostly luxury boxes and they are sold, someone knows something. I don't think they were buying them with the direction of watching smu, usf,temple, et. al. The conference dollars involved here are not big potatoes to some of the businesses. Big advertisers are likely to get what they want. However, i still think it was ACC driven. We'll see.
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What's your point?
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These conferences share so much though. The bowl money, the playoff money, not to mention being tied to these schools in the event Fedex doesn't like the deal in 5 years. I still don't see the math working when you consider dilution for football (i.e. fewer traditional B12 games for TV) and the rest.
Mind you, I'm going on the assumption that very few people have interest in Memphis football.
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Does the same investment by UConn into hockey and the upgrading of major sports facilities signal similar things, though? Or are we all just doing our best to get added?
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UTC and the Governor should be involved in getting UCONN in the P5. It's good for the local economy. Deeper pockets than FedEx too.
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I'm not getting the Memphis angle, either. They get hot for one year, and just like that, they're a hot commodity now?? Bullsh!t if they get into any conference before us. I don't want to sound like a hater either, but damn. Many competitive years since joining the FBS capped off by a BCS bowl bid, and we've never been an option during the thick of conference realignment. Memphis becomes remotely relevant for one year, and suddenly they're the next TCU.
SubbaBub
Your stupidity is ruining my country.
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UCONN13KC said:
UTC is in just about every state in the union. They are also not into sponsoring CFB teams any more than McDonald's is.
Nike and UA are sports equipment companies run by superfans. FedEx apparently is too, but last go around his offer was $10M. $50M per year is a whole different level. I doubt one donor can make that work long term.
nelsonmuntz
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I don't believe the $50MM number. The best ad spending number I can find on Fedex indicates they spent $120MM on advertising in 2010. Let's say that number is up to $150MM now (which would be a huge jump), they are not going to put $50MM into a single game just because they like Memphis. They are a publicly traded company.
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Lifted from Shaggybevo (Texas site)...
Top Non P5+ND Schools by Viewership of Games against other non P5+ND Schools. List ordered by average TV viewership for those games.
Large to small
Put numbers in at major change points Numbers in millions -
Minimum of 4 games to get on list.
Boise State /.91
BYU /.90
Fresno State /.79
UConn /.64
UCF /.58
Cincinnati /.50
USF
Wyoming
Utah State
Toledo
Houston
No. Illinois
Ohio
ECU /.31
Tulsa /.25
Tulane
Texas State
Temple
UNLV
Memphis /.16
Ordered by total viewers Numbers in millions
Boise State 6.4
BYU 6.3
UConn 4.5
UCF 3.5
Fresno State 3.2
Utah State 3.0
USF 2.9
Cincinnati 2.5
Houston 2.5
ECU 2.2
Wyoming 1.8
Toledo 1.7
No. Illinois 1.6
Tulsa 1.5
Ohio 1.5
Tulane 1.1
Temple 1.1
Texas State 0.9
Memphis 0.8
UNLV 0.6
Top Non P5+ND Schools by Viewership of Games against other non P5+ND Schools. List ordered by average TV viewership for those games.
Large to small
Put numbers in at major change points Numbers in millions -
Minimum of 4 games to get on list.
Boise State /.91
BYU /.90
Fresno State /.79
UConn /.64
UCF /.58
Cincinnati /.50
USF
Wyoming
Utah State
Toledo
Houston
No. Illinois
Ohio
ECU /.31
Tulsa /.25
Tulane
Texas State
Temple
UNLV
Memphis /.16
Ordered by total viewers Numbers in millions
Boise State 6.4
BYU 6.3
UConn 4.5
UCF 3.5
Fresno State 3.2
Utah State 3.0
USF 2.9
Cincinnati 2.5
Houston 2.5
ECU 2.2
Wyoming 1.8
Toledo 1.7
No. Illinois 1.6
Tulsa 1.5
Ohio 1.5
Tulane 1.1
Temple 1.1
Texas State 0.9
Memphis 0.8
UNLV 0.6
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Right and Fedex isn't.
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UTC Bowl - we don't make things that blow people up, but we deliver, just like FedEx.
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And that's just for football.
Now, for UConn, add men's and women's BB.
In terms of TV, no one comes close to UConn.
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No I get your overall post, just poking fun a little at that line. Any company that is going to be a major player in advertising at the top level of college football is going to have a presence coast to coast.
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Nobody outside the P5 has the financial value of UConn, with the possible exception of BYU. And, if a conference has or wants a conference network, UConn would add the most value in both subs and content. All that said, the Big 12 and UConn are not a good fit.
Personally, I think the Big 12 stays at 10 teams as they want to see how the playoff plays out for a few years before they panic into expansion especially since the choices are not that attractive and they give up so much if they expand. Think about it, every team in the Big 12 plays each other every year. Are they really interested in replacing annual games with Texas and Oklahoma with games with schools like Memphis, Cincinnati, BYU... In addition, if the playoff is going to increase to 8 teams down the road with automatic bids for each P5 conference champ, why expand?
Also, the 2 traditional powers of the Big 12, Texas and Oklahoma, were down this year. If Texas or Oklahoma were 11-1, they probably would have been included int he playoff as the Playoff Committee has some bias towards traditional football powers.
Personally, I think the Big 12 stays at 10 teams as they want to see how the playoff plays out for a few years before they panic into expansion especially since the choices are not that attractive and they give up so much if they expand. Think about it, every team in the Big 12 plays each other every year. Are they really interested in replacing annual games with Texas and Oklahoma with games with schools like Memphis, Cincinnati, BYU... In addition, if the playoff is going to increase to 8 teams down the road with automatic bids for each P5 conference champ, why expand?
Also, the 2 traditional powers of the Big 12, Texas and Oklahoma, were down this year. If Texas or Oklahoma were 11-1, they probably would have been included int he playoff as the Playoff Committee has some bias towards traditional football powers.
junglehusky
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Took me 10 minutes to format this in MS word and I haven't even read it all... heh.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV I'm not saying it's going to happen. But there are ways to make it work. Are those ways acceptable to both sides?
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV There's no way current members will accept a reduction in TV rev. Nor should they.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV Would they agree to a deal where two new entrants get all the league title game $, any new bowl/tv rev because of inventory?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I don't see it. You know the history of unequal revenue sharing with the Big 12. Ask Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri and Texas A&M.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Unequal revenue sharing makes 2nd class conf members.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV Would they be comfortable offering that? Would new entrants accept? I don't know. But really only way I see it happening.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Look at the Big 12 contract. They own all but 1 football game.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike The people I spoke to at the Big 12 and WVU said any expansion under the current TV contract means a reduction of revenues unless
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV Absolutely true. And it's why I doubt it'll happen. But the second-class members are already second class, and would be richer.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike The incoming members are worth, at the least $25 million per school, per year.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I think the Big 12 can count on a bidding war between Fox & ESPN to keep Texas in the Big 12 when the current contract is over.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I think their are problems in the way the contract is split between Fox and ESPN.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Both would have to agree to reopen because neither is going to subsidize content for the others.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV And there's no one out there that is. As I wrote. It's a huge hurdle. Only way around is to let new members take new rev.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike And the presidents of Fox and ESPN have told the Big 12 over and over again they would not add money.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV On that part, I'm not sure it takes that long.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Let's say they do. What's the incentive for KSU and KU to play in the east? What other 3 schools are you going to put in the east?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I think the Big 12 should expand to 14 if not 16. Short-term loss for long-term gain.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike But before I did that I would want to make sure my TV partners were on board and I would want commitments from the incoming schools
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike The other hurdle I hear is the obannon decision. The Big 12 doesn't want to expand because they don't know the final price of that.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike The timing isn't right & as long as the Big 12 can keep their revenues & have a CCG they wont expand.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV 14/16 is an awful lot. Have to go all the way to CT, for sure, to find enough worthy members.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I hear fox is going to go all out and make the Big 12 what the big east was to espn early. if that happens then open the doors.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV One incentive (particularly for K-State) is easier entry to title game. You kidding? OU, OK State, Tex, BYU on one side ...
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike But that would take Fox seriously overpaying. I mean B1G money to get Texas to agree.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike KSU would... but who else... ISU is a natural.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV The CCG is a huge IF. That rule has been in place for more than 20 years, nobody changed it.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Separate OSU and OU. It kills OSU to fly into WVU.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike 12 doesn't work.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV Makes sense. Not sure if you read what I wrote, but I'm not suggesting this is happening. I agree with everything you said.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike See Swofford's comments Friday night. Bowlsby said yesterday he expects the P5 to change the rule within 5 months.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV But the meeting happened. Doesn't mean Big 12 is expanding, and I said that. Just that it's doing "research."
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I want it to happen. It needs to happen.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike But they don't have the votes.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike Half of the Big 12 has PTSD from expansion. They want their check. They dont care about the future.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike Talk to Luck about it. Ask him about adding Florida, Ohio, NC and Tenn to the Big 12 footprint.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV If 12, you've got KU, WVU, KState, Iowa State, Cincy. Only need one more. Could even stash BYU unless someone else wanted in.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike The one thing that bothers me is the Big 12 has went out of their way to tell people they are not expanding & they are not talking.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike Maybe the Big 12 could put them on a longer revenue cycle. But all those schools have deficits. That concerns the Big 12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike So until the Big 12 knows for sure about a CCG they have no incentive to act but all the incentive in the world to wait.
Frank the Tank @frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike Isn't proposed championship game rule change focused on eliminating division requirement? That's what the ACC wants.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike No. It repeals the current law. The Big 12 and ACC partnered on that with support from the SEC.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike What people don't get is there is obviously collusion between the ACC and Big 12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Both fear the B1G. and the SEC isn't keen on having the B1G in SEC territory either.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike So allowing the big 12 to have a CCG with 10 serves their interests.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike But allowing the B12 to set their own rules for a CCG makes expansion for the Big 12 more likely not less.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Then it serves the same purpose as it would for the ACC or SEC. Have your two best schools play.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Money is the only reason the Big 12 won't expand.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike I'll say this... Fox could make it happen. Only Fox.... ESPN is too heavily invested in SEC & NFL.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike I think it's 60% of the vote of the P5 committee & 3 of the 5 conferences to approve to repeal the CCG rule.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike http://www.dailyastorian.com/change...ollege-sports6e3215812bba4bf6b28ff6f457b9d285 …
Scalphunter @scalphunter 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike what do you think the odds are the P5 will go for it? Basically you'd need 2 out of 4 (B12 is a yes)
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...nship-games-would-change-postseason-structure … Deregulate is the key term.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @scalphunter @frankthetank111 @tsnmike I'm told its not controversial and will pass.
Scalphunter @scalphunter 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike and would the ACC get to pit it's top 2 teams? Or is that more of a challenge?
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike I still don't see evidence the SEC would join the Big 12/ACC in this endeavor and why they would.
Frank the Tank @frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike Yes, I've seen those articles, but read them closely. The focus is on divisions and not lowering 12-team requirement.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike No. It's not. It's on deregulation. Why would the Big 12 join the ACC to change that rule.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike They want to do away with the rule all together. Not amend it.
Frank the Tank @frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike Could they eliminate the 12-team requirement? Sure. But that's a higher hurdle than eliminating divisions.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike They are going to repeal the rule. Allow each conf to establish its own rules.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike If SEC wants options in setting up different rules/divisional play, they have 40 votes with B1G/PAC
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/co...ults-are-being-exposed-again-under-stress.ece …
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Ask Amy Yakola at the ACC about the ACC legislation. If it is intended to amend the rule or revoke it.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike But its a moot point. A CCG isn't the determining factor. Money is the reason for no expansion.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Certain members of the Big 12 don't care that TCU & BU were left out. They believe they would not be.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike They are not going to have their base revenues reduced from $25 to $20.8 million.
Frank the Tank @frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike I agree with you there. The CFP and CCG are red herrings for Big 12 expansion. It's about the money.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike It always has been. And the two entities that can change it are Fox & ESPN.
Frank the Tank @frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike On the other hand, the money will dry up LONG-TERM without improving the non-Texas demographics of the Big 12.
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Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Some in the Big 12 see that. Some don't care.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and WVU would go elsewhere. They have already been contacted.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @theDudeofWV @tsnmike CCG not totally red herring. 13-0 always > 12-0 /12-1 > 11-1. Big 12 teams not control of own destiny
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 59m59 minutes ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Here's the other thing Bowlsby mentioned: just play a 13th game. I have no idea how unless Hawaii is involved.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 58m58 minutes ago @flugempire @frankthetank111 @tsnmike If the Big 12 added 2 for a CCG and made it every year they would still lose millions by expanding.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 58m58 minutes ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Against the current rules (exception Hawaii) I don't see these rule changes happening easily....
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 56m56 minutes ago @flugempire @frankthetank111 @tsnmike The SEC & ACC want the Big 12 intact. The SEC already works closely with the Big 12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 56m56 minutes ago @flugempire @frankthetank111 @tsnmike And the ACC and the Big 12 both fear the B1G so much they work together closely now too.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 56m56 minutes ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Short term, yes they would. Mid term, yes they would. Long term, if make right choices,Big12 survives
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 39m39 minutes ago @theDudeofWV @flugempire @frankthetank111 Overstating to say they would "lose millions". Only if they cut new members in on TV deal.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 39m39 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 Respectfully if it requires that much backward engineering it's not viable.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 38m38 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 If it's going to happen then Fox or ESPN needs to intervene.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 37m37 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 But sometimes you (Fox) has to invest more $ to protect an investment (The Big 12).
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 37m37 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 Even if the result is a short-term loss.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 36m36 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 So if Fox intends the Big 12 to be their flagship product they will pay for it to protect their brand.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 35m35 minutes ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike So it all comes down to this: …
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 29m29 minutes ago @theDudeofWV @flugempire @frankthetank111 I never said was viable. I just know they're not going to cut their checks, so what else is there?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 27m27 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 it comes down to this: does Fox decide to overpay for the Big 12 to keep Texas out of the ACC or B1G?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 25m25 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 I guarantee you that Bowlsby will have that conversation with David Nathanson.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV I'm not saying it's going to happen. But there are ways to make it work. Are those ways acceptable to both sides?
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV There's no way current members will accept a reduction in TV rev. Nor should they.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV Would they agree to a deal where two new entrants get all the league title game $, any new bowl/tv rev because of inventory?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I don't see it. You know the history of unequal revenue sharing with the Big 12. Ask Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri and Texas A&M.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Unequal revenue sharing makes 2nd class conf members.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV Would they be comfortable offering that? Would new entrants accept? I don't know. But really only way I see it happening.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Look at the Big 12 contract. They own all but 1 football game.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike The people I spoke to at the Big 12 and WVU said any expansion under the current TV contract means a reduction of revenues unless
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV Absolutely true. And it's why I doubt it'll happen. But the second-class members are already second class, and would be richer.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike The incoming members are worth, at the least $25 million per school, per year.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I think the Big 12 can count on a bidding war between Fox & ESPN to keep Texas in the Big 12 when the current contract is over.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I think their are problems in the way the contract is split between Fox and ESPN.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Both would have to agree to reopen because neither is going to subsidize content for the others.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV And there's no one out there that is. As I wrote. It's a huge hurdle. Only way around is to let new members take new rev.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike And the presidents of Fox and ESPN have told the Big 12 over and over again they would not add money.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV On that part, I'm not sure it takes that long.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Let's say they do. What's the incentive for KSU and KU to play in the east? What other 3 schools are you going to put in the east?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I think the Big 12 should expand to 14 if not 16. Short-term loss for long-term gain.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike But before I did that I would want to make sure my TV partners were on board and I would want commitments from the incoming schools
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike The other hurdle I hear is the obannon decision. The Big 12 doesn't want to expand because they don't know the final price of that.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike The timing isn't right & as long as the Big 12 can keep their revenues & have a CCG they wont expand.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV 14/16 is an awful lot. Have to go all the way to CT, for sure, to find enough worthy members.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I hear fox is going to go all out and make the Big 12 what the big east was to espn early. if that happens then open the doors.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV One incentive (particularly for K-State) is easier entry to title game. You kidding? OU, OK State, Tex, BYU on one side ...
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike But that would take Fox seriously overpaying. I mean B1G money to get Texas to agree.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike KSU would... but who else... ISU is a natural.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV The CCG is a huge IF. That rule has been in place for more than 20 years, nobody changed it.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Separate OSU and OU. It kills OSU to fly into WVU.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike 12 doesn't work.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV Makes sense. Not sure if you read what I wrote, but I'm not suggesting this is happening. I agree with everything you said.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike See Swofford's comments Friday night. Bowlsby said yesterday he expects the P5 to change the rule within 5 months.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV But the meeting happened. Doesn't mean Big 12 is expanding, and I said that. Just that it's doing "research."
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I want it to happen. It needs to happen.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike But they don't have the votes.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike Half of the Big 12 has PTSD from expansion. They want their check. They dont care about the future.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike Talk to Luck about it. Ask him about adding Florida, Ohio, NC and Tenn to the Big 12 footprint.
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV If 12, you've got KU, WVU, KState, Iowa State, Cincy. Only need one more. Could even stash BYU unless someone else wanted in.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike The one thing that bothers me is the Big 12 has went out of their way to tell people they are not expanding & they are not talking.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike Maybe the Big 12 could put them on a longer revenue cycle. But all those schools have deficits. That concerns the Big 12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike So until the Big 12 knows for sure about a CCG they have no incentive to act but all the incentive in the world to wait.
Frank the Tank @frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike Isn't proposed championship game rule change focused on eliminating division requirement? That's what the ACC wants.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike No. It repeals the current law. The Big 12 and ACC partnered on that with support from the SEC.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike What people don't get is there is obviously collusion between the ACC and Big 12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Both fear the B1G. and the SEC isn't keen on having the B1G in SEC territory either.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike So allowing the big 12 to have a CCG with 10 serves their interests.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike But allowing the B12 to set their own rules for a CCG makes expansion for the Big 12 more likely not less.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Then it serves the same purpose as it would for the ACC or SEC. Have your two best schools play.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Money is the only reason the Big 12 won't expand.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike I'll say this... Fox could make it happen. Only Fox.... ESPN is too heavily invested in SEC & NFL.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike I think it's 60% of the vote of the P5 committee & 3 of the 5 conferences to approve to repeal the CCG rule.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike http://www.dailyastorian.com/change...ollege-sports6e3215812bba4bf6b28ff6f457b9d285 …
Scalphunter @scalphunter 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike what do you think the odds are the P5 will go for it? Basically you'd need 2 out of 4 (B12 is a yes)
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...nship-games-would-change-postseason-structure … Deregulate is the key term.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @scalphunter @frankthetank111 @tsnmike I'm told its not controversial and will pass.
Scalphunter @scalphunter 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike and would the ACC get to pit it's top 2 teams? Or is that more of a challenge?
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike I still don't see evidence the SEC would join the Big 12/ACC in this endeavor and why they would.
Frank the Tank @frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike Yes, I've seen those articles, but read them closely. The focus is on divisions and not lowering 12-team requirement.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike No. It's not. It's on deregulation. Why would the Big 12 join the ACC to change that rule.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike They want to do away with the rule all together. Not amend it.
Frank the Tank @frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike Could they eliminate the 12-team requirement? Sure. But that's a higher hurdle than eliminating divisions.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike They are going to repeal the rule. Allow each conf to establish its own rules.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike If SEC wants options in setting up different rules/divisional play, they have 40 votes with B1G/PAC
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/co...ults-are-being-exposed-again-under-stress.ece …
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Ask Amy Yakola at the ACC about the ACC legislation. If it is intended to amend the rule or revoke it.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike But its a moot point. A CCG isn't the determining factor. Money is the reason for no expansion.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Certain members of the Big 12 don't care that TCU & BU were left out. They believe they would not be.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike They are not going to have their base revenues reduced from $25 to $20.8 million.
Frank the Tank @frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike I agree with you there. The CFP and CCG are red herrings for Big 12 expansion. It's about the money.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike It always has been. And the two entities that can change it are Fox & ESPN.
Frank the Tank @frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike On the other hand, the money will dry up LONG-TERM without improving the non-Texas demographics of the Big 12.
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Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Some in the Big 12 see that. Some don't care.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and WVU would go elsewhere. They have already been contacted.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @theDudeofWV @tsnmike CCG not totally red herring. 13-0 always > 12-0 /12-1 > 11-1. Big 12 teams not control of own destiny
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 59m59 minutes ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Here's the other thing Bowlsby mentioned: just play a 13th game. I have no idea how unless Hawaii is involved.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 58m58 minutes ago @flugempire @frankthetank111 @tsnmike If the Big 12 added 2 for a CCG and made it every year they would still lose millions by expanding.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 58m58 minutes ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Against the current rules (exception Hawaii) I don't see these rule changes happening easily....
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 56m56 minutes ago @flugempire @frankthetank111 @tsnmike The SEC & ACC want the Big 12 intact. The SEC already works closely with the Big 12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 56m56 minutes ago @flugempire @frankthetank111 @tsnmike And the ACC and the Big 12 both fear the B1G so much they work together closely now too.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 56m56 minutes ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Short term, yes they would. Mid term, yes they would. Long term, if make right choices,Big12 survives
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 39m39 minutes ago @theDudeofWV @flugempire @frankthetank111 Overstating to say they would "lose millions". Only if they cut new members in on TV deal.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 39m39 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 Respectfully if it requires that much backward engineering it's not viable.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 38m38 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 If it's going to happen then Fox or ESPN needs to intervene.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 37m37 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 But sometimes you (Fox) has to invest more $ to protect an investment (The Big 12).
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 37m37 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 Even if the result is a short-term loss.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 36m36 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 So if Fox intends the Big 12 to be their flagship product they will pay for it to protect their brand.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 35m35 minutes ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike So it all comes down to this: …
Michael DeCourcy @tsnmike 29m29 minutes ago @theDudeofWV @flugempire @frankthetank111 I never said was viable. I just know they're not going to cut their checks, so what else is there?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 27m27 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 it comes down to this: does Fox decide to overpay for the Big 12 to keep Texas out of the ACC or B1G?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 25m25 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 I guarantee you that Bowlsby will have that conversation with David Nathanson.
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MHver3 @MHver3 50s50 seconds ago
Have found out that B12 officials have visited BYu, Memphis, Colorado St, and Uconn in addition to Cincy in the past several weeks.
Have found out that B12 officials have visited BYu, Memphis, Colorado St, and Uconn in addition to Cincy in the past several weeks.
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One good reason to expand was brought up by Frank, and it has nothing to do with missing out on the playoffs, and it's that your CG becomes instantly must-view TV when it leads to a spot in the playoffs. In other words: $$$.
Once the other conferences cut big deals for their CG games, the B12 will expand.
dayooper
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This is a weird statement. Why would Fox over pay to keep Texas away from The Big10? If the rumored move is true, Fox will be overpaying for The Big10 and having Texas, along with Kansas and Oklahoma (assuming that's the case) would wind up saving money. The ACC I can see, but I would think Fox wants Texas to go the Big10.
I just see The Big12 as a dead conference walking and will cease to be a P5 conference in the next 7-8 years. The main parts will be gobbled up while the dregs (Baylor, TCU, ISU, OkieSt, and KSU) will be left to their own devices.
dayooper
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Can they get more for the Bi12 CCG game than the Big10? The Big10 get 20-25 million per year. Taking the big side of that, ($25 million) where the other $25 million going to come from? Again, the teams would be losing roughly $2 million apiece. And that's only if they were to get the top end of the Big10's money. Something tells me that's not going to happen.
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CL82
James Breeding sucks
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Well I guess if they perceive that the value received (brand awareness) is worth at least $50M then they might well be okay with it (and I'm not asserting that that they would) but my point is that they are the stakeholders. It's not a NCAA issue and they really aren't involved nor do they have oversight.
ConnHuskBask
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I think the Dude seriously must be disturbed. I've let CR affect my life way more than it should, but this lunatic who's school is in the P5 just has let it consume his life.
It's not all that crazy. Back five years ago when FedEx was sponsoring the Orange Bowl, they were paying just north of $20 million a year. While the Big 12 game would not carry as much clout as the Orange Bowl did, the amounts paid for marketing, sponsorship and carry rights have gone up considerably in a very short time.
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The games could be worth even more. When did the B1g do the contract? Plus you're assuming the 2 schools have absolutely no value. If the game is worth say $35m, then the schools need to be worth $12m each.
I bet you UConn is worth $20m and more. If Pitt and Syracuse are, then UConn is.
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