Non-Key Tweets

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Greg Flugaur @flugempire The amount of $ was never the ultimate goal in this case...its was who in the ACC conference.

Perhaps, but wasn't there somebody who incessantly expressed Maryland would undoubtedly pay $51 million or so to the ACC? Who was that person trolling this board?

 

[jostar1]

Christopher Lambert‏@theDudeofWV 4h
Big update: A reliable source at an ACC school tells me the conf is worried about private members being able to afford coming changes.

Hawkeye ‏@hawkeyeND 4h
@theDudeofWV well no kidding. Wake, BC, GT will struggle to afford; acc has lowest tv $ and locked in for a decade

JF ‏@lwillfollow 4h
@theDudeofWV No way #Wake, #BC, #Cuse, #Pitt..... will be able to keep up. They will just continue to suck and collect a pay check.

Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 3h
@theDudeofWV Private ACC schools such as WF and Miami who carry only 18 sports will not see the massive increase in cost with non-rev sports

Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 3h
@theDudeofWV ...however, BC who carries 25 sports and Duke who carries 26...will have huge hurdles to overcome. No AD wants to cut sports...

Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 3h
@theDudeofWV ...cutting sports is always last resort. Other ACC small budget schools like GT and Pitt both only cover 18 sports. I believe..

Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 3h @theDudeofWV ...BC will have the biggest issue with the changes of "cost of attendance"...and Duke will be challenged as well.

CA Curtis ‏@Iamgrizzly1974 2h
@theDudeofWV @OmegaSupreme914 I have been saying for 2 years plus the ACC is DOA! Looks like what I have been saying is coming to pass!.

BC, Pitt and Syracuse have huge endowment funds:

BC $1.8 billion
Pitt $2.9 billion
Syr $1.1 billion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_the_United_States_by_endowment

 

[billybud]

The Kooks forget that it was Wake Forest's President who was in the forefront of pushing for the P5 autonomy.....He is the Chair of the Div. I Board of Directors.

 

[jostar1]

Greg Flugaur @flugempire · 12h
Been asked a great question on why Virginia Tech answering a Maryland subpoena would give any indication of a VT "flinch" of loyalty to ACC

Greg Flugaur @flugempire · 12h
Why would answering a Maryland subpoena in the ACC/UMD case show any strength in the VT/UMD relationship....what did it really show?.......

Greg Flugaur @flugempire · 12h
The answer: When did VT answer the Maryland subpoena?..the same subpoena given to all other ACC schools and ESPN..when did VT deliver docs?

Greg Flugaur @flugempire · 12h
VT answered the Maryland subpoena right away. No dragging.Ask a lawyer what this swiftness to sending docs to a combatant in court indicates

Greg Flugaur @flugempire · 12h
Been told the comparison of VT actions (lesser degree GT) in the court case vs. other ACC schools spoke volumes. Same fountain of info.

 

[TerryD]

I am a lawyer. I have almost 27 1/2 years of civil litigation experience.

The fact that VT answered a subpoena duces tecum fairly quickly tells me nothing at all.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

It is my belief that UVA would never want The SEC. UVA is a very unique place. They value their academics more than almost any other P5 public school (Cal is the only one I can think of). I could be wrong, but the association with other highly rated schools that value academics is extremely important to UVA. I really don't think they would go to The SEC. If The Big10 admits VPI, it would almost lock out The SEC from Virginia.

A) There was a time when I absolutely would have believed the premise on UVA's need to associate themselves with quality academic institutions. I've known quite a few 'Hoos over the years and have a full understanding of their beanie wearing pomposity. With that however I believe all of that went out the window the day that great Jeffersonian university voted to add Louisville (a school that Mississippi St looks down at) to their ranks. I believe the UVA we all once knew is now gone.

B) I believe (entirely an opinion) that the SEC wants a presence in both Virginia and North Carolina. I also personally believe that due to the better match of culture, Va Tech is the SEC's preferred candidate and the SEC would be Va Tech's preferred destination. If the B1G does appear to show interest in VPI, it could motivate both the SEC and UVA to make moves that they have currently been hesitant to make.

 

[TRest]

BC, Pitt and Syracuse have huge endowment funds:

BC $1.8 billion
Pitt $2.9 billion
Syr $1.1 billion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_the_United_States_by_endowment

I don't think endowments are open to be raided for athletic departments. The real money made by SEC and B1G teams is with the massive stadiums filled with paying and donating fans. The TV money helps, too, but the real advantage the big publics have is paying fans. Wake, Duke, BC etc. can't fill relatively small stadiums and that's where the bottom of the P5 might run into trouble.

 

[jostar1]

I don't think endowments are open to be raided for athletic departments.

I wondered about that, too. But after reading some articles, yes, they can be used for the Athletic Dept.

Here's Alabama's explanation:

http://www.rolltide.com/sports/crimson-tide-foundation/spec-rel/content/faq-endowments.html

Can I restrict the use of an endowment?
Within reason, yes. Donors may restrict the use of funds from their endowments to support areas such as scholarships, programs, facility maintenance, coaching, etc. And, more specifically, for a particular sport such as football, gymnastics, Olympic sports, etc. If this is of interest to you, please contact a member of the development staff for more information about what your available options.

Are there minimum levels to endow a fund?
Yes. Depending on the type of endowment being established, minimum endowment levels are set by the Crimson Tide Foundation Board of Directors and are as follows:

Endowment Minimum level
Athletic Department Operational Fund $500,000
Head Coaches' Championship Performance Fund $100,000
Bryant-Denny Stadium Maintenance Fund $50,000
Coleman Coliseum Maintenance Fund $35,000
Named Endowed Athletic Scholarship Fund $25,000


What is considered to be a fully endowed athletic scholarship?
Given the current cost of tuition, we consider a fully endowed athletic scholarship to be $300,000.

Also, this:

Athletics: Some alumni and donors make charitable endowment gifts for the restricted purpose of supporting intercollegiate athletics. Colleges and universities use investment income from such gifts to fund athletic scholarships, facilities, salaries and equipment.

http://www.aplu.org/NetCommunity/Document.Doc?id=577

 

[ScottBonz]

our man winchester buck still has us in the mix over at hineygate.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

our man winchester buck still has us in the mix over at hineygate.

I don't recall hearing this name before, but if it comes true, do you think he will mind me calling him Uncle Buck?

 

[TRest]

I wondered about that, too. But after reading some articles, yes, they can be used for the Athletic Dept.

Here's Alabama's explanation:

http://www.rolltide.com/sports/crimson-tide-foundation/spec-rel/content/faq-endowments.html

Can I restrict the use of an endowment?
Within reason, yes. Donors may restrict the use of funds from their endowments to support areas such as scholarships, programs, facility maintenance, coaching, etc. And, more specifically, for a particular sport such as football, gymnastics, Olympic sports, etc. If this is of interest to you, please contact a member of the development staff for more information about what your available options.

Are there minimum levels to endow a fund?
Yes. Depending on the type of endowment being established, minimum endowment levels are set by the Crimson Tide Foundation Board of Directors and are as follows:

Endowment Minimum level
Athletic Department Operational Fund $500,000
Head Coaches' Championship Performance Fund $100,000
Bryant-Denny Stadium Maintenance Fund $50,000
Coleman Coliseum Maintenance Fund $35,000
Named Endowed Athletic Scholarship Fund $25,000


What is considered to be a fully endowed athletic scholarship?
Given the current cost of tuition, we consider a fully endowed athletic scholarship to be $300,000.

Also, this:

Athletics: Some alumni and donors make charitable endowment gifts for the restricted purpose of supporting intercollegiate athletics. Colleges and universities use investment income from such gifts to fund athletic scholarships, facilities, salaries and equipment.

http://www.aplu.org/NetCommunity/Document.Doc?id=577

Yes, athletic scholarships can be specifically endowed. But just giving the number of a school's total endowment is not evidence of what's available to the athletic department at Wake.

 

[Dooley]

What's more interesting is that private schools tuition costs are typically much more than a public school's. Wake, BC, Pitt, Duke, and the Fruit will either need to cut sports or significantly dip into their endowments to cover some of these new measures. And when you start taking Title IX into consideration, they might have to cut it down to "revenue" sports and a small handful of Olympic sports only. None of these schools will get a $1.5B bill passed by their resident state like UCONN either.

 

[btstimpy]

Perhaps, but wasn't there somebody who incessantly expressed Maryland would undoubtedly pay $51 million or so to the ACC? Who was that person trolling this board?

That is precisely what I wanted. And the ACC has the winning hand. But the litigation by dragging on for 18 months and looking like it would drag for another 18 months starting to get in the way of other ACC plans. So they took 3/5 of the amount and moved on. Dr. Wallace Loh, who called the fee punitive, unenforceable, and illegal, looks a little silly paying 3/5 of it don't you think?

 

[btstimpy]

Christopher Lambert‏@theDudeofWV 4h
Big update: A reliable source at an ACC school tells me the conf is worried about private members being able to afford coming changes.

Don ‏@Don_304 4h
@theDudeofWV There will eventually be a Power Four IMO.

Hawkeye ‏@hawkeyeND 4h
@theDudeofWV well no kidding. Wake, BC, GT will struggle to afford; acc has lowest tv $ and locked in for a decade

Jeremy ‏@1998Grad 4h
@theDudeofWV shut em down!

JF ‏@lwillfollow 4h
@theDudeofWV No way #Wake, #BC, #Cuse, #Pitt..... will be able to keep up. They will just continue to suck and collect a pay check.

Scott Poindexter ‏@ScottPoi 4h
@theDudeofWV president of wake forest lead the fight for these changes. Why fight for something his school can't afford?

Clark Beecher ‏@BRACRB 3h
@theDudeofWV I have head that for 6 months. See Wake and Duke

Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 3h
@theDudeofWV Private ACC schools such as WF and Miami who carry only 18 sports will not see the massive increase in cost with non-rev sports

Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 3h
@theDudeofWV ...however, BC who carries 25 sports and Duke who carries 26...will have huge hurdles to overcome. No AD wants to cut sports...

Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 3h
@theDudeofWV ...cutting sports is always last resort. Other ACC small budget schools like GT and Pitt both only cover 18 sports. I believe..

Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 3h
@theDudeofWV ...BC will have the biggest issue with the changes of "cost of attendance"...and Duke will be challenged as well.

f primetimer ‏@knightbengal 2h
@theDudeofWV Miami ?

CA Curtis ‏@Iamgrizzly1974 2h
@theDudeofWV @OmegaSupreme914 I have been saying for 2 years plus the ACC is DOA! Looks like what I have been saying is coming to pass!

Daniel Freer ‏@DWFreer 2h
@theDudeofWV @knightbengal What will be tough is paying non-revenue sports. You have to pay female athl or Title IX will cost you

Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h
@flugempire You really think the super rich conferences are not going to drive the cost of P5 participation up?

Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h
@flugempire Let’s wait & see what stipend P5 schools adopt. $5K is only the starting point.

Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h
@DWFreer @knightbengal You could take all non-rev men’s sports to the club level & support them with donations.

Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 2h
@theDudeofWV Yes, I do think you are correct. SEC & B1G will drive up costs to effect lower $ schools of Big12 & ACC...no doubt. Schools....

Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 2h
@theDudeofWV that want to keep the large bandwidth of sports but yet have a smaller budget to work with..with no projections of share growth


ME: Leave it to a Missouri fan to say the most sensical thing about this whole "exchange":

Scott Poindexter ‏@ScottPoi 4h
@theDudeofWV president of wake forest lead the fight for these changes. Why fight for something his school can't afford?

The rest of the peanut gallery is up to the usual delusions.

The Dude has been spouting this tripe for a while now. He's missing his nose to spite his face. The Athletic Departments with troubled finances are places like Maryland, Rutgers, Washington State, Kansas State, Cal-Berkley, etc. They will have problems affording these changes long before the private schools in the ACC. And if the ACC private schools start to have trouble, it is Miami that will be the first. Don't assume Wake Forest. It may be the objective of places like Texas, Ohio State, and Stanford to bankrupt everyone, but I kind of doubt it. Who would they then get to play?

 

[noeynox]

That is precisely what I wanted. And the ACC has the winning hand. But the litigation by dragging on for 18 months and looking like it would drag for another 18 months starting to get in the way of other ACC plans. So they took 3/5 of the amount and moved on. Dr. Wallace Loh, who called the fee punitive, unenforceable, and illegal, looks a little silly paying 3/5 of it don't you think?

Not really. Everyone knows the Big Ten essentially paid 20 million of it. So UMD paid an additional 11 million. Even if you want to argue they paid 31 million, it is still a long way from the 52 million. The difference is greater than the original exit fee.

 

[businesslawyer]

God, what a stupid process of non-lawyers with their theories of what the settlement means. The settlement means that neither side was anywhere near sure it would ultimately prevail. Period. simple.

 

[btstimpy]

Not really. Everyone knows the Big Ten essentially paid 20 million of it. So UMD paid an additional 11 million. Even if you want to argue they paid 31 million, it is still a long way from the 52 million. The difference is greater than the original exit fee.

The difference is about $1.4 million per school, and if the litigation is holding up a $10-20 million per school proposition because you have to give the appearance of "damaged" to continue the litigation, you might want to let that extra $1.4 million go and move on.

I don't think that the Big Ten paid any of this for Maryland. The Big Ten paid Maryland about $30 million in travel subsidy. If Maryland chose to use that for this, that would have been Maryland's choice.

 

[junglehusky]

Hmm, @flugempire only has 46 followers. Well... make that 47...

 

[btstimpy]

A) There was a time when I absolutely would have believed the premise on UVA's need to associate themselves with quality academic institutions. I've known quite a few 'Hoos over the years and have a full understanding of their beanie wearing pomposity. With that however I believe all of that went out the window the day that great Jeffersonian university voted to add Louisville (a school that Mississippi St looks down at) to their ranks. I believe the UVA we all once knew is now gone.

B) I believe (entirely an opinion) that the SEC wants a presence in both Virginia and North Carolina. I also personally believe that due to the better match of culture, Va Tech is the SEC's preferred candidate and the SEC would be Va Tech's preferred destination. If the B1G does appear to show interest in VPI, it could motivate both the SEC and UVA to make moves that they have currently been hesitant to make.

UVA is in the best conference academically right now even with Louisville. And I think you'll see Louisville improve. The only conference better than the ACC academically is the Ivy League, but they aren't P5. So UVA would turn them down for athletics. There would be people at UVA who would drop athletics to join the Ivy League, but not the overall University body. The ACC is good enough.

The SEC will get into North Carolina and Virginia by playing games in both states more often. Don't assume that both conferences enacting an 8 game conference football schedule with the requirement of 1 additional P5 game was coincidence. How about the ACC using the SEC for that 1 extra P5 game and the SEC using the ACC or Notre Dame for that extra P5 game? That would get the SEC into VA/NC just the same.

 

[upstater]

UVA is in the best conference academically right now even with Louisville. And I think you'll see Louisville improve. The only conference better than the ACC academically is the Ivy League, but they aren't P5. So UVA would turn them down for athletics. There would be people at UVA who would drop athletics to join the Ivy League, but not the overall University body. The ACC is good enough.

The SEC will get into North Carolina and Virginia by playing games in both states more often. Don't assume that both conferences enacting an 8 game conference football schedule with the requirement of 1 additional P5 game was coincidence. How about the ACC using the SEC for that 1 extra P5 game and the SEC using the ACC or Notre Dame for that extra P5 game? That would get the SEC into VA/NC just the same.

Delusional.

And Louisville will improve? Why can't the worst B1G school improve at the same rate?

 

[btstimpy]

Delusional.

And Louisville will improve? Why can't the worst B1G school improve at the same rate?

The specific term Louisville uses is upward trajectory. Not my term. Will it work remains to be seen. I'm not here to worry about Louisville. My teams will have to work hard to beat Louisville's teams now. I see it as a tougher challenge than what we had with Maryland. We'll have to see.

I assume by worst Big Ten school you mean Nebraska. I don't know enough about them to comment.

 

[dayooper]

The specific term Louisville uses is upward trajectory. Not my term. Will it work remains to be seen. I'm not here to worry about Louisville. My teams will have to work hard to beat Louisville's teams now. I see it as a tougher challenge than what we had with Maryland. We'll have to see.

I assume by worst Big Ten school you mean Nebraska. I don't know enough about them to comment.

Don't ever stop being you.

 

[huskypantz]

The only conference better than the ACC academically is the Ivy League, but they aren't P5. .

Patriot League as well.

 

[ramses 2.0]

I think alot of people are sleeping on Wake Forest . Wake has a sizeable endowment, owns all if it's athletic facilities ,a lot of valuable land close to campus, as well as a top notch medical campus. Either way it's not a matter of whether than can match the Texas or Ohio State's of the world but they can by association in the P5 offer better packages than any G5 school.

 

[CTMike]

I think alot of people are sleeping on Wake Forest . Wake has a sizeable endowment, owns all if it's athletic facilities ,a lot of valuable land close to campus, as well as a top notch medical campus. Either way it's not a matter of whether than can match the Texas or Ohio State's of the world but they can by association in the P5 offer better packages than any G5 school.

People are sleeping on Wake Forest because they are Wake Forest. Congrats on being luckier than us in all this I guess?