Non-Key Tweets | Page 307 | The Boneyard

Non-Key Tweets

nelsonmuntz said:
That is a strawtastic argument of things I didn't say. I said the case of expansion is just okay, not great. Nice try though.

The only way those schools keep the Big 12 in existence is if one or more of the new schools establishes themselves as a national power in the next 10 years. It also protects the non-Texas/Oklahoma schools from wandering the desert if Texas should leave them. What happens to Iowa State or Kansas State if there is no Big 12? If they have 10 years to incorporate new members, they may be able to survive Texas' departure in 10 years. Their hand is strongest right now.

I have made that first argument in the past and you have argued the other side, so I am not going to bite. A case could be made that UConn is a $2MM a year program right now and that is it. If you believe that, then why aren't you calling for the football program to be shut down? Can't have it both ways Whaler.

The only reason most of the P5 programs are getting the revenue they get is because they are behaving like a monopoly. Likewise, the main reason that programs like UConn are getting the meager revenue they get is that they are outside the monopoly. It is hard to argue that this is free market pricing.
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You said if they don't expand they won't exist in 10 years. What other conclusion is there but the teams they expand with would save them? Hardly a strawman.

If there wasn't a chance they needed to go to 12 we wouldn't be having this conversation - so it's pretty safe to say that the Big 12 and their partners don't value any of those schools at the average Big 12 number.... or they would have done something about it.
 
Slasher said:
This is wrong on many levels. Cincinnati is a top 25 research college (they don't rank overly highly on US News) but always rank very highly on AAU metrics and is commonly considered a top 200 worldwide university (due to their research and endowment 1.2B.) Ohio widely supports OSU and the B1G but not the metro area of Cincinnati. It is a pro-sports town, I give you that.
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Easy there. Cincy is a very good school. AAU metrics tend to devalue hospital research because of its sourcing (i.e. not peer review grants). Cincy is a good academic school that could fit into any conference, but I seriously doubt anyone would rank it in the top 50 in the USA.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
That is a strawtastic argument of things I didn't say. I said the case of expansion is just okay, not great. Nice try though.

The only way those schools keep the Big 12 in existence is if one or more of the new schools establishes themselves as a national power in the next 10 years. It also protects the non-Texas/Oklahoma schools from wandering the desert if Texas should leave them. What happens to Iowa State or Kansas State if there is no Big 12? If they have 10 years to incorporate new members, they may be able to survive Texas' departure in 10 years. Their hand is strongest right now.

I have made that first argument in the past and you have argued the other side, so I am not going to bite. A case could be made that UConn is a $2MM a year program right now and that is it. If you believe that, then why aren't you calling for the football program to be shut down? Can't have it both ways Whaler.

The only reason most of the P5 programs are getting the revenue they get is because they are behaving like a monopoly. Likewise, the main reason that programs like UConn are getting the meager revenue they get is that they are outside the monopoly. It is hard to argue that this is free market pricing.
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To look at UConn (as an example) as only as valuable as what it receives today as a member of the AAC is short term thinking. The kind of thinking that has left the Big 12 in the position that it is in with just 10 teams and hanging on the votes of it's peers as to how it should proceed. Instead, it could take the approach that it wants to build its conference rather than just add to it. OU has been referenced with thinking 50 or 100 years into the future. Conference building is just that as opposed to just keeping things smaller because of the payout now. Sure UConn, Cincy, Temple and either UCF or USF will dilute the per school payout now but what if, with a little planning, they could lead to a larger payout or even the conferences survival in the future? It's worth thinking about.
 
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upstater said:
Easy there. Cincy is a very good school. AAU metrics tend to devalue hospital research because of its sourcing (i.e. not peer review grants). Cincy is a good academic school that could fit into any conference, but I seriously doubt anyone would rank it in the top 50 in the USA.
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Top 25 research school I said. Not that they're top 25 overall. Many schools are much better schools, but not considered "research" schools. And it might have been top 25 public research school, I don't remember the source.


EDIT: For example: http://mup.asu.edu/Top-American-Research-Universities-2013-Annual-Report-MUP.pdf has Cincinnati as #53 overall and #31 Public. UConn is ranked #94 for research on this report.
 
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Husky Army ‏@thehuskyarmy 2h2 hours ago
Sources close to UConn athletic program say B1G is still a very possible landing spot

Brian A ‏@BriUConn 2h2 hours ago
@thehuskyarmy @DooleyMcStitch What?? Is this your source? If so, is this a BIG looking now or down the road??

Husky Army
‏@thehuskyarmy
@Briuconn @DooleyMcStitch I was told by source that UConn will be in the B1G eventually. Interpret that however you want

Husky Army ‏@thehuskyarmy 2h2 hours ago
@DooleyMcStitch @Briuconn Eventually meaning 10-15 years tops

Husky Army ‏@thehuskyarmy 2h2 hours ago
@DooleyMcStitch @Briuconn BTN contract up soon, if Big 12 threatens to take NYC, they just might add UConn; in my opinion
 
Maybe a tad exaggerated, Cincy pretending it's some major football school is incredulous.

It's much closer in rankings to WVU and Louisville than it is to UConn, KU and UT. And everyone on here talks about Louisville and WVU being borderline community colleges academically.

It doesn't matter, the ACC has FSU and Louisville.

BoatShow said:
Yeah the Cincy as a community college post was pretty misguided. They must have been thinking of Louisville
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Slasher said:
Top 25 research school I said. Not that they're top 25 overall. Many schools are much better schools, but not considered "research" schools. And it might have been top 25 public research school, I don't remember the source.


EDIT: For example: http://mup.asu.edu/Top-American-Research-Universities-2013-Annual-Report-MUP.pdf has Cincinnati as #53 overall and #31 Public. UConn is ranked #94 for research on this report.
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Yes, I know you wrote research school, that's why I replied.

As I said, non-competitive funding is usually excluded from measuring how well a school is doing with research. The assessments inside Carnegie and the national endowments (NRC, not to mention the AAU) look at things like research grant funding per faculty, the range of the curriculum etc.
 
whaler11 said:
You said if they don't expand they won't exist in 10 years. What other conclusion is there but the teams they expand with would save them? Hardly a strawman.

If there wasn't a chance they needed to go to 12 we wouldn't be having this conversation - so it's pretty safe to say that the Big 12 and their partners don't value any of those schools at the average Big 12 number.... or they would have done something about it.
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The Big 12 will not exist in 10 years if it does not expand now. A 10 team league fully dependent on 1 member for market share is not viable. Getting to 12 or 14 teams and expanding its footprint gives it a chance, that's all. If teams are added and they make the playoffs 2-3 times in the next 10 years, the Big 12's future is solid. If nothing changes, and Oklahoma makes it a few more times, with maybe TCU or Baylor jumping in, the Big 12's odds are not good. If Texas and Oklahoma become powerhouses, drowning out the other 8 members, the Big 12 has 0% chance of survival.

If you had to assemble the Big 12 from scratch from all the non-ACC, Big 10, Big 12, and SEC programs, how many of the current Big 12 schools would you pick? I might pick 6 or 7. I am sure Iowa State, Baylor and Kansas State have figured that out too. 10 years from now, if Texas bolts, the Big 12 is no longer a major conference. How many of the other programs will be saved? The SEC will take Oklahoma and maybe Oklahoma State or Kansas. And that's it. On the other hand, if, 10 years from now, Texas bolts from a 12 or 14 team Big 12, Oklahoma is more likely to stay as the anchor, and the league will still be a viable major conference. And if Texas doesn't hold the cards 10 years from now, they are less likely to bolt and other leagues would be less likely to take them.

None of this is rocket science. That is why Texas likes the status quo, and Oklahoma wants to expand.

Yet Whaler believes that he knows more about the Big 12's future prospects than the President of Oklahoma.
 
Nostical said:
This is the possibility we all hoped for: that interest by the Big12 would spur information gathering (The Dooley Syndrome) which would be more eye opening than expected. Then, the ACC and B1G, in an effort to protect their Northeast/NYC flank would begin to re-evaluate whether to wait on UConn, who they assumed "would always be there", or be more pre-emptive (The Louisville Syndrome). I sent the pics of our full stadium along with the RGIII quote to my Texas buddy and said we would fill the joint and expand it too if we had a schedule of Big12 visitors! Keep banging that drum boys!
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I learned a long time ago in order to achieved your desired outcome it may becomes necessary to employ the tactic of cognitive dissonance.
I really can't say if the dissonance created by rumors of us as a top candidate to fill a very likely opening are enough but it can't hurt.
 
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Go look at the US News rankings. Much closer to Louisville than UConn, like 30+ spots.

Not that academics play that much into these, but the SEC took TAMU and Mizzou, two very strong schools and ACC takes Louisville. Who knows if B12 factors this at all.

upstater said:
Yes, I know you wrote research school, that's why I replied.

As I said, non-competitive funding is usually excluded from measuring how well a school is doing with research. The assessments inside Carnegie and the national endowments (NRC, not to mention the AAU) look at things like research grant funding per faculty, the range of the curriculum etc.
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TerryD said:
Yes, he is an alumnus of Illinois and DePaul. He has no connections to Syracuse at all. He is a huge Big Ten guy.
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I think he has been open in the past about his affinity for Syracuse, as another team that he roots for, though not as clear as to why.
 
hiphopfroggy said:
Hi TCU grad in NYC, and a huge proponent of adding UCONN here.
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I read your posts on landthieves. Thanks for promoting our basketball success to TX Sooner. I don't think you'll be able to get through to him, but I appreciate the effort.
 
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Afroabe224 said:
Good thing B12 fans haven't seen fellow Huskies chucking oranges at Syracuse fans outside Gampel... Would hate to see an errant fruit ruin our future CR outlook!
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I remember that. The best part was an Orange fan picked up an orange, chucked it to return the favor and was promptly arrested for his troubles.
 
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Durks07 said:
I remember that. The best part was an Orange fan picked up an orange, chucked it to return the favor and was promptly arrested for his troubles.
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That was right before my first UConn/Cuse game. That's awesome you saw that too.
Just like referees, they always catch the retaliation!
 
Dooley said:
Sorry, but I'm in the overexpand boat too. The B12 expansion talk seems to be only driven by what is the least possible means necessary for a Championship Game. I can understand that view, especially when it's baked into the whole "12 team pie split 10 ways" argument. But of greater concern to the majority of the conference (read: anyone not named Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas) is the long-term viability of the Big 12.

Individually, the remaining 7 schools don't have much of a leg to stand on. But collectively, they should have more of a forum. And their forum is simple: "we don't want to be relegated to G5 status once you three leave in 2025." To do that, you have to think about who is attractive to other conferences (read: the ACC) and would hurt their "P4" profile.

If the B12 added, in one fell swoop, UConn, Cincinnati, USF, UCF, Memphis, and Houston to get to 16, they could form an East division and West division and virtually guarantee that the best team out of the OU, Texas, TCU, Baylor grouping will play a weaker East team in the Championship Game and get to the Playoff. A bigger move like that also takes every single viable ACC option off the table should a school bolt the conference to join the B1G or SEC. Then once that train gets rolling, the B12 could poach UL and Pitt and 2 others to get to 20 and secure its hold as a P4 conference.

Believe me, I know that such a move is the longest of long shots and the odds of me winning $1B Powerball are greater than the B12 thinking about its long term interests, but it is certainly an option that should be explored. Even if it's over some moonshine, BBQ, cheese and crackers, and clogging.
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My corollary is that the AAC propose a merger between the AAC and the Big 12 creating a super 22 football team conference while offering a double tier model. Tell the unmagnificent 7 that this is their chance to solidify their futures rather than being hung out to dry at the whim of Texas and Oklahoma. The AAC has proven to be a very good football conference. This scenario has zero chance of happening, maybe technically 0.0000000001, but I would love to see these guys do something brazen rather than just act as enablers to the P5.
 
JSM1970 said:
They may want Cincy for access to Midwestern recruits, though if that is the case why not grab a FL school. Cincy is a borderline community college in a pro sports town where everyone supports OSU and the B1G. Maybe it could work, who knows.
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Cincy is more of a very large state school, larger than UCONN, which would probably be in a better position if it had been given a catchier name, such as University of Ohio.
 
Wait, are you arguing that Cincy is a good school? My point is strictly that it's not a factor in this decision, and the only league that has shown any really concern for this is the SEC amazingly.

UCONN13KC said:
Cincy is more of a very large state school, larger than UCONN, which would probably be in a better position if it had been given a catchier name, such as University of Ohio.
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JSM1970 said:
Wait, are you arguing that Cincy is a good school? My point is strictly that it's not a factor in this decision, and the only league that has shown any really concern for this is the SEC amazingly.
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I am not arguing that Cincy is a good school. Cincy is a good school.
 
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