Non-Key Tweets

[specialisthusky]

So, $4m a year?

That's not nearly enough to dissuade ND.

I think Kyle is right on this one. If ND is forced to choose a conference because of D4, the GOR with the ACC does not prevent it from doing whatever the heck it wants.

Wouldn't the 3m increase for 14 teams mean that ND Olympics and 2 or 3 of the games played in Acc football venues are worth 42 million? How'd you get to 4?

 

[billybud]

What the ACC got from Notre Dame was five football games a year.....matches good for exposure (when is the last time an Irish game was not televised?).

This bolsters the scheduling which may become important as more conferences go to 9 game conference schedules.

In 2014..this gives FSU a slate of Oklahoma State, Notre Dame, and Florida in OOC.

 

[billybud]

So, $4m a year?

That's not nearly enough to dissuade ND.

I think Kyle is right on this one. If ND is forced to choose a conference because of D4, the GOR with the ACC does not prevent it from doing whatever the heck it wants.

The ACC has a separate contract with Notre Dame that stipulates that iof the Irish joim a conference before 2027, it will be the ACC.

A suit for breach would result in claims for huge damages. It ain't going to happen, anyway.

 

[Exit 4]

Interesting. http://www.ubfan.com/board/index.php?topic=14175.msg162142#msg162142

Yes, interesting indeed. Buffalo Lion is certainly our most articulate and supportive 'non-fan' message board booster. As for SUNY Buffalo, yes - it has size and AAU status, but hard to see the B1G going down that rabit hole in the end. Unlike most states, NY's regional interests have competed and diluted the state brand across all big four university campuses and smaller colleges in the system. While I could see the B1G overlooking the lack of athletic accomplishments, its hard to ignore the state's long history of mixed/tangled support for its schools. When you ask NYers about the SUNY system you'll get seven different answers about which school is the flagship and I dont think there is any real will in state politics to change that. In other words, if I were the B1G, I wouldnt want a school which doesnt have clear political support/policy to be the state's flagship.

 

[woomba]

Yes, interesting indeed. Buffalo Lion is certainly our most articulate and supportive 'non-fan' message board booster. As for SUNY Buffalo, yes - it has size and AAU status, but hard to see the B1G going down that rabit hole in the end. Unlike most states, NY's regional interests have competed and diluted the state brand across all big four university campuses and smaller colleges in the system. While I could see the B1G overlooking the lack of athletic accomplishments, its hard to ignore the state's long history of mixed/tangled support for its schools. When you ask NYers about the SUNY system you'll get seven different answers about which school is the flagship and I dont think there is any real will in state politics to change that. In other words, if I were the B1G, I wouldnt what a school which doesnt have clear political support/policy to be the state's flagship.

He's probably the one who fed the Dude the info - he's been hyping that up for over a year now but there's too many factors working against it to make it a plausible target.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

ND's worst case scenario is to be trapped into joining the Big Ten.

I don't think that non-ND fans understand the deep enmity that ND people have for that conference.

All of ND's moves since 1991 (NBC deal, BE deal, ACC deal) have been to stay out of the clutches of Jim Delany and his Big Ten ilk.

If ND football had to join a conference, it would be the ACC over the Big Ten.

ND alumni, fans and administrators would consider Big Ten membership a surrender and a disaster for ND.

I live out here in Midwest retirementville.
I can tell you my B1G fans friends feel the same way about ND
In sports hatred is a good thing.
Its like Yanks and Sox.

 

[btstimpy]

So, $4m a year?

That's not nearly enough to dissuade ND.

I think Kyle is right on this one. If ND is forced to choose a conference because of D4, the GOR with the ACC does not prevent it from doing whatever the heck it wants.

If ND is forced to join or chooses to join a conference for football between now and 2026-2027, it has to be the ACC by contract. There is no alternative conference available to Notre Dame until 2026-2027. If you ask anyone associated with Notre Dame, they are perfectly comfortable with this. They do not wish to join fully at this point in time, but understand where they will join if they have to.

 

[Husky25]

Besides Academics, what does Buffalo really bring to the table. To quote Coach Winters from The Program, "Yeah, but when was the last time 80,000 people showed up to watch a kid do a damm chemistry experiment? Why don't you stick the bow-tie up your ?"

UConn certainly has more to offer and has a higher ceiling. Nationally recognized athletics, tremendous state gov't support, increasing academia prestige and can complete the delivery of the an attentive portion of the largest TV market in the country. Buffalo can offer a contiguous state. Why that is important, I don't know.

Say all you want about TV markets and DMAs, Massachusetts, New York, and New Jersey are all pretty much professional sports markets, where college and amateur sports are an after thought. Connecticut brings attentive viewers of the college, amateur, and minor leagues. Of course this is my impression more than based on anything really concrete...

 

[btstimpy]

Besides Academics, what does Buffalo really bring to the table. To quote Coach Winters from The Program, "Yeah, but when was the last time 80,000 people showed up to watch a kid do a damm chemistry experiment? Why don't you stick the bow-tie up your ?"

UConn certainly has more to offer and has a higher ceiling. Nationally recognized athletics, tremendous state gov't support, increasing academia prestige and can complete the delivery of the an attentive portion of the largest TV market in the country. Buffalo can offer a contiguous state. Why that is important, I don't know.

Say all you want about TV markets and DMAs, Massachusetts, New York, and New Jersey are all pretty much professional sports markets, where college and amateur sports are an after thought. Connecticut brings attentive viewers of the college, amateur, and minor leagues. Of course this is my impression more than based on anything really concrete...

The ability for the Big Ten Network to extort more money from the Cable Boxes that Time Warner Cable has in that part of New York State. It's the same thing they are looking for with Rutgers and Maryland. SUNY Buffalo's AAU status gets past the screeners on the Big Ten Council of Presidents.

 

[Husky25]

The ability for the Big Ten Network to extort more money from the Cable Boxes that Time Warner Cable has in that part of New York State. It's the same thing they are looking for with Rutgers and Maryland. SUNY Buffalo's AAU status gets past the screeners on the Big Ten Council of Presidents.

Neither cows, nor the farmers and cowboys who tend to them are big cable tv subscribers.

 

[specialisthusky]

The ability for the Big Ten Network to extort more money from the Cable Boxes that Time Warner Cable has in that part of New York State. It's the same thing they are looking for with Rutgers and Maryland. SUNY Buffalo's AAU status gets past the screeners on the Big Ten Council of Presidents.

Just because a team from NY is on a network does nut mean the population is going to pay for it. The big ten is going to learn thus with NJ soon. If psu could not get full rates in Philly/SJ ru is not going to deliver North Jersey and NYC.

Heck last time I drove through the city I heard a commercial that time Warner is dropping showtime and CBS. Yet NYC is going to increase its TV fees for University of Buffalo?

 

[Sea Goat]

The ability for the Big Ten Network to extort more money from the Cable Boxes that Time Warner Cable has in that part of New York State. It's the same thing they are looking for with Rutgers and Maryland. SUNY Buffalo's AAU status gets past the screeners on the Big Ten Council of Presidents.

You had me believing for awhile. But you have lost it!

 

[btstimpy]

He's probably the one who fed the Dude the info - he's been hyping that up for over a year now but there's too many factors working against it to make it a plausible target.

The Dude gets his information from E. Gordon Gee, former President of West Virginia University. Soon to be former President of The Ohio State University. Does he talk with BuffaloLion? Maybe. But most of what he gets comes from Ohio State. He's not very well tapped into the ACC. I can assure you. But he has some good sources in the Big Ten.

 

[btstimpy]

You had me believing for awhile. But you have lost it!

I don't think SUNY Buffalo is a good choice myself. But I can understand why the Big Ten might. AAU and Cable Boxes in a big state. It fits their model perfectly.

 

[FDNY99]

The one thing CT can boast is that when SNY started carrying UCONN sports they were able to get a pretty high suscriber fee based on fans asking for their cable system to carry the channel. Same thing with the BTN...if the B1G dream ever came true having the BTN in CT would be like having a dedicated UCONN sports station. They broadcast a lot of sports year 'round. And for that UCONN fans will be willing to pay a pretty penny.

 

[TerryD]

I live out here in Midwest retirementville.

I can tell you my B1G fans friends feel the same way about ND"

In sports hatred is a good thing.

Its like Yanks and Sox.

I certainly agree. It is an intense mutual disdain and dislike.

In this case, though, it is not a good thing. That is why the "ND belongs in the Big Ten" crowd is dead wrong.

Other than being located in the Midwest, ND has nothing much in common with the Big Ten.

ND will not join the Big Ten, even though it could earn the most TV dollars and cut its travel costs the most by doing so.

The Big Ten is the absolute last place ND ever wants to be.

It thinks it will be "regionalized" there as a Midwest school.

Many of ND's students, fans and alumni and located in the Northeast. It wants Northeast exposure for that reason and Southeast exposure for recruiting and access to major markets there (Atlanta, Miami).

ND would be a bad fit in the Big Ten, being only one of two private schools in a huge, land grant public school conference.

ND believes that joining the Big Ten would place it under the thumb of Ohio State and especially Michigan (who rule the Big Ten), the latter school being considered the mortal enemy of ND.

ND doesn't want to join any conference in football. But, if it had to, it much prefers the ACC.

 

[btstimpy]

Just because a team from NY is on a network does nut mean the population is going to pay for it. The big ten is going to learn thus with NJ soon. If psu could not get full rates in Philly/SJ ru is not going to deliver North Jersey and NYC.

Heck last time I drove through the city I heard a commercial that time Warner is dropping showtime and CBS. Yet NYC is going to increase its TV fees for University of Buffalo?

I think you are right. But the Big Ten thinks that they can, and they convinced Dr. Wallace Loh at the University of Maryland that they can. That is explicitly why they added Rutgers and Maryland. Cable Boxes. A secondary reason was to appease Penn State with eastern schools.

I don't think SUNY Buffalo would have an affect on NYC, but it might in much of the rest of New York State. There are a lot of cable boxes in New York State. Now the Big Ten needs to be smart enough to know that SUNY Buffalo without any athletic tradition or history would be a development effort in football and basketball. But if the BTN can get the cable boxes? Who knows. SUNY Buffalo could hire some high profile coaches and build programs.

This is the downside of thinking like a Cable Network rather than an Athletic Conference.

 

[Dooley]

If adding Buffalo makes UCONN contiguous (I agree, I have no idea why a 16 mile gap between NJ and CT is important but whatever), then I'm all for it. One less hurdle for UCONN going B1G!

 

[Sea Goat]

I don't think SUNY Buffalo is a good choice myself. But I can understand why the Big Ten might. AAU and Cable Boxes in a big state. It fits their model perfectly.

Here's the deal - whatever people think of the 3.6 mm people in CT, they mostly all are UConn fans and will watch UConn sports on cable (and demand that UConn sports be carried on their systems). That brings in the wealthiest portion of the NYC metro area and more to fray according to Mike Tranghese. (See Below) I am familiar with Buffalo - people will only watch SUNY Buffalo upon bribery, deep intoxication or a gun to their head. IMO, there will be zero following of SUNY Buffalo sports in NYC (and zero demand to add BTN to a cable system for SUNY sports).

Here's what Tranghese said:

Rutgers was accepted into the Big Ten last fall, with the widespread belief that the conference wanted a foothold in the New York metropolitan area. But while intending no disrespect to Rutgers, Tranghese said: “A lot of people don’t understand what makes New York tick. The two schools with the biggest impact in the New York market have been Syracuse and Connecticut.”

Is this true? Don't know for sure, but I have a multitude of friends in Fairfield County who are loyal, well-healed Husky fans and who follow the Huskies religiously.

 

[Dooley]

I certainly agree. It is an intense mutual disdain and dislike.

In this case, though, it is not a good thing. That is why the "ND belongs in the Big Ten" crowd is dead wrong.

Other than being located in the Midwest, ND has nothing much in common with the Big Ten.

ND will not join the Big Ten, even though it could earn the most TV dollars and cut its travel costs the most by doing so.

The Big Ten is the absolute last place ND ever wants to be.

It thinks it will be "regionalized" there as a Midwest school.

Many of ND's students, fans and alumni and located in the Northeast. It wants Northeast exposure for that reason and Southeast exposure for recruiting and access to major markets there (Atlanta, Miami).

ND would be a bad fit in the Big Ten, being only one of two private schools in a huge, land grant public school conference.

ND believes that joining the Big Ten would place it under the thumb of Ohio State and especially Michigan (who rule the Big Ten), the latter school being considered the mortal enemy of ND.

ND doesn't want to join any conference in football. But, if it had to, it much prefers the ACC.

I'm a homer, but this is exactly why UCONN has so much value in CR! If UCONN were to go B1G, it gives ND (and/or whoever) another foot in the door in NYC while also opening the door into Boston as well. If you pick up a Boston Globe or Herald, UCONN is covered fairly well. Low hanging fruit just bursting with flavor!

 

[FDNY99]

If adding Buffalo makes UCONN contiguous (I agree, I have no idea why a 16 mile gap between NJ and CT is important but whatever), then I'm all for it. One less hurdle for UCONN going B1G!

IF the B1G added Buffalo I can't see UCONN being added as well. I'm a born and bred Husky fan to the core...but Buffalo to the B1G leaves us out for good..isolated on an island!

 

[UConn9604]

Proof? Other than your own unsupported speculation, that is?

Any links? Any documents? Any reputable source?

Fair enough, although obligations are generally voided in the event of a material breach under just about every contract.

I see no evidence that Notre Dame is unhappy about their decision to join the ACC.

Of course there's no evidence of it, and you'd be hard pressed to find evidence that they were ever unhappy with their relationship with the Big East. They only left because they saw the league taking a nosedive and because they got a better deal. They're happy wherever they go, because they hold all of the cards.

 

[Dooley]

IF the B1G added Buffalo I can't see UCONN being added as well. I'm a born and bred Husky fan to the core...but Buffalo to the B1G leaves us out for good..isolated on an island!

You may be right. It certainly follows the "whatever kicks UCONN fans in the nutz the hardest will happen" model. UCONN playing in a mid-major while the likes of Buffalo, BC, RU, Fruit, DePaul, Seton Hall, and Providence all have stable and better conference homes would create chaos in Connecticut.

 

[btstimpy]

Here's the deal - whatever people think of the 3.6 mm people in CT, they mostly all are UConn fans and will watch UConn sports on cable (and demand that UConn sports be carried on their systems). That brings in the wealthiest portion of the NYC metro area and more to fray according to Mike Tranghese. (See Below) I am familiar with Buffalo - people will only watch SUNY Buffalo upon bribery, deep intoxication or a gun to their head. IMO, there will be zero following of SUNY Buffalo sports in NYC (and zero demand to add BTN to a cable system for SUNY sports).

Here's what Tranghese said:

Rutgers was accepted into the Big Ten last fall, with the widespread belief that the conference wanted a foothold in the New York metropolitan area. But while intending no disrespect to Rutgers, Tranghese said: “A lot of people don’t understand what makes New York tick. The two schools with the biggest impact in the New York market have been Syracuse and Connecticut.”

Is this true? Don't know for sure, but I have a multitude of friends in Fairfield County who are loyal, well-healed Husky fans and who follow the Huskies religiously.

I hear you. And that is how the ACC thinks and why I want the ACC to add UConn. We don't yet have an ACC Network.

The Big Ten's model is cable boxes. The BTN contract with the Cable Provider says that the BTN gets more subscriber fees from ALL the cable boxes in the area if the Big Ten has a school located in the area. They don't care if no one watches the BTN, just that they pay for the BTN when they pay for their cable box.

You have 3.6 million in Connecticut. How many are in New York State? They don't have to watch SUNY Buffalo. They just have to have a cable box. That's why they added a failing Athletic department in Maryland and a struggling one in Rutgers. New Jersey and Maryland have lots of cable boxes.

Some here are suggesting that the Northeast Cable Companies will fight this model. I know that the Big Ten Network thinks it can force these fees on the Cable Companies.

An again, I don't think anyone wants to watch Michigan play SUNY Buffalo in football or basketball. At least not at the level of disparity we'll find today.

 

[specialisthusky]

You may be right. It certainly follows the "whatever kicks UCONN fans in the nutz the hardest will happen" model. UCONN playing in a mid-major while the likes of Buffalo, BC, RU, Fruit, DePaul, Seton Hall, and Providence all have stable and better conference homes would create chaos in Connecticut.

Wait...we still haven't reached the point of chaos?!?!?

 

[metsfan2323]

You have to really be gullible to take this Buffalo nonsense seriously.

 

[woomba]

The Dude gets his information from E. Gordon Gee, former President of West Virginia University. Soon to be former President of The Ohio State University. Does he talk with BuffaloLion? Maybe. But most of what he gets comes from Ohio State. He's not very well tapped into the ACC. I can assure you. But he has some good sources in the Big Ten.

Lol. Name one thing he got right about the Big Ten. You're absolutely right he knows nothing about ACC but he's batting zeros all around.

 

[Husky25]

I don't think SUNY Buffalo is a good choice myself. But I can understand why the Big Ten might. AAU and Cable Boxes in a big state. It fits their model perfectly.

Those red blotches in central to Western NY are Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse.

New York State's population density is just over 400 people per square mile and that big red blotch on the lower right hand part of the map drastically brings that number up to 400 ppsm. There are relatively few "cable boxes in a big state" say as compared to Connecticut, which has over 700 people per square mile.

 

[Sea Goat]

Fair enough, although obligations are generally voided in the event of a material breach under just about every contract.




Of course there's no evidence of it, and you'd be hard pressed to find evidence that they were ever unhappy with their relationship with the Big East. They only left because they saw the league taking a nosedive and because they got a better deal. They're happy wherever they go, because they hold all of the cards.

ND does what best suits ND. There is no room for charity or sentimentalism in college sports - it is too profitable. My original point was that the 26-27 end date must somehow be related to ND's NBC contract termination date (or will be related thereto when it comes up). This is not happenstance. ND has a sweetheart deal with the ACC and it will never join the ACC as a full member while it can enjoy this special treatment. The one caveat is that ND most likely has an "out" if it must join a conference before that date because the playoff system changes and requires conference membership to participate. Then ND will probably be able to survey the landscape and pick the best conference for it's purposes. That may end up being the ACC, but I doubt if there is such a change in circumstances that ND would necessarily be required to do so.

 

[ctchamps]

I wasn't aware that pointing out that:

1) ND always told the BE that football would never join,

2) The BE was already an unequal revenue and hybrid conference prior to ND joining, and

3) The BE football schools were afraid to use the "card ", could not agree on a split, expansion and were looking to bail

= "Holier than Thou". My bad.

Regarding business, ND and the BE did exactly what they felt was necessary at the time. ND was in a strong position in football and needed a home for its olympic sports. The BE was new and needed cache. So they made a deal that was mutually beneficial.

What many of us are warning our ACC friends about is the combination of purely business attitude and arrogance that ND has towards other entities. There was a loose cultural federation of universities in the BE that was beginning to develop stronger bonds. Had any of a number of things taken place the BE could have reached the level of other conferences. Those included ESPN offering more in the way of $$, the BE bb and football schools resolving their enmity and/or ND offering to go all in the conference. Any of those plays and the BE would not be just a bunch of Catholic schools.

There was/is a stronger cultural federation of alliance in the ACC. It was the four North Carolina schools, Virginia, and Maryland. If someone included GT in this cultural mix I wouldn't argue. The remainder of the ACC is not nearly as strongly connected culturally. It is why the Maryland's defection hit the ACC so hard. It struck at the cultural underpinning of the conference. It is why the Maryland alumni are so angry. There is definitely a lot of division amongst the various power brokers in that university who are divided over cultural vs. financial issues. How the future plays out for that University and it relationship to the B!G is uncertain.

ND gives an increase financial benefit to the ACC. And it gives the ACC greater exposure nationally. This is offset by the attitude ND has towards everyone else. It wouldn't align itself with universities in it's geographical footprint. It wouldn't align itself with entities that were culturally similar, the Catholic schools. It will never align itself with schools that have a different geographic footprint and religious perspective.

ND was not entirely innocent in the BE's demise. The are very capable of playing the business game that benefits them. They astutely evaluated the disharmonies within the BE and they utilized those disharmonies to their advantage. It would be correct to state that the individuals who are making decisions at ND are astute business people. It would also be correct to say that ND is exploitive and is burning a lot of bridges.

Entities that are me, myself and I can benefit others but they can be very dangerous if people are unaware of their nature. So ACC be aware of what the B!G already knows! Delaney would offer Buffalo a bid before ND. And those ND alumni that love sports should be aware of the future as well. There could come a time when ND's actions will create a backlash that will relegate the University as a backwater in sports. Personally I think the individuals making decisions at ND either don't believe this or believe that they can always do a mea culpa and cause those animosities to change before the situation for them reaches this point. Maybe they can, but that is an equally dangerous stance as the ACC believing ND will help them relative to the other power conferences.