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I'll say this about Flug, he doesn't say he has info when he doesn't have it. He makes a lot of deductions from information that's out there and doesn't make bold predictions or prognostications. A good amount of what he says is level-headed thoughts. He's interesting to read for sure.

He at least keeps up with what is being done at UConn to improve its BIG profile (the $1.5 billion investment from the state). The fans on the other boards that I read don't seem to have a clue.

I think he said his contact is someone in the East Coast media.
 
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He at least keeps up with what is being done at UConn to improve its BIG profile (the $1.5 billion investment from the state). The fans on the other boards that I read don't seem to have a clue.

I think he said his contact is someone in the East Coast media.
Yeah, and the vast majority of his posts are just taking known facts and coming up with logical guesses - but he frames them as logical guesses, not as "MY CONTACT TOLD ME NEW STUFF! MORE AT 11!"

The only way I see Kentucky making a move is if Cal starts to think the SEC is too weak of a basketball league (which it is.) Especially if the football focus gets even more pronounced and SEC schools just have BB teams for the hell of it.
 
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Since I've got about eight months to kill before next season, let me yak about this stuff a bit.

Nebraska. Here's how that went down--when it came time to vote up or down on their AAU membership, two B1G schools jumped ship and voted to kick them out. Understandably, Nebraska was, shall we say, upset. Phone lines were melted in the fallout. Of course, this all played out behind the scenes.

The two schools were both dominant football schools--and, under normal circumstances, I think those two would have stood as a solid block with the other B1G schools since the issues involved were how agricultural research was counted (and the entire B1G west has a stake in that) and how the Nebraska medical should be considered since it's not in Lincoln but rather in Omaha.

However, this was not normal circumstances. This was an opportunity for the academics at those two schools to remind the administrations they perceived as "football first" that the academic community is really first.

Anyway, after that behind-the-scenes fiasco, which was finally soothed over with promises that B1G would assist Nebraska back to AAU status, it was pretty easy to figure that the only schools that could get in next had better be solid academically. (If Delaney wanted UConn then, it simply wasn't the right time.) If the schools were solid academically and had a history of anemic football--think Rutgers--all the better for keeping the academic side happy, too.

I think enough time has passed now so that a non-AAU school might be considered, but curiously, with the academic community's approval and if they're NOT a football-first powerhouse. (I think UConn has a better shot than Oklahoma.)

When Delany says, "We're not focused on expansion right now, we just want to integrate our new additions." that's political speak for 'let's see if we can keep everybody happy so we don't have another mess like the Nebraska/AAU thing.'

In the meantime, although I think the situation with Nebraska is squared away, don't think there isn't some lingering fallout and a lot of hard feelings.

Meanwhile: Kentucky. When I called that a wildcard, I meant longshot--probably won't happen. But...the KY legislature mandated Kentucky to be a top 20 research institution by 2020. It ain't happening for them but it possibly makes them poachable by the B1G.
Again, a real longshot, but never underestimate the academic side of things. It makes them possibly poachable--and from the SEC.

In the meantime, while Kentucky struggles for years to get their academic act together, UConn chugs along getting more done in one year than Kentucky gets done in ten. If I didn't know better, I'd think somebody gave UConn a roadmap and a to do list...

Part of the problem with boards is the tendency to think expansion is as easy as swapping bubble gum cards in the treehouse on a summer afternoon. It's a lot more complicated than that: a lot of constituencies to appease or satisfy and a lot of vicious politics.

But, at the end of the day, the academic and research ends are important. Don't look at ACC's Louisville addition as a diss of UConn, but rather a "You made the right choice" for Maryland.

Nothing has changed my opinion that UConn is destined for B1G.
 
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Since I've got about eight months to kill before next season, let me yak about this stuff a bit.

Nebraska. Here's how that went down--when it came time to vote up or down on their AAU membership, two B1G schools jumped ship and voted to kick them out. Understandably, Nebraska was, shall we say, upset. Phone lines were melted in the fallout. Of course, this all played out behind the scenes.

The two schools were both dominant football schools--and, under normal circumstances, I think those two would have stood as a solid block with the other B1G schools since the issues involved were how agricultural research was counted (and the entire B1G west has a stake in that) and how the Nebraska medical should be considered since it's not in Lincoln but rather in Omaha.

However, this was not normal circumstances. This was an opportunity for the academics at those two schools to remind the administrations they perceived as "football first" that the academic community is really first.

Anyway, after that behind-the-scenes fiasco, which was finally soothed over with promises that B1G would assist Nebraska back to AAU status, it was pretty easy to figure that the only schools that could get in next had better be solid academically. (If Delaney wanted UConn then, it simply wasn't the right time.) If the schools were solid academically and had a history of anemic football--think Rutgers--all the better for keeping the academic side happy, too.

I think enough time has passed now so that a non-AAU school might be considered, but curiously, with the academic community's approval and if they're NOT a football-first powerhouse. (I think UConn has a better shot than Oklahoma.)

When Delany says, "We're not focused on expansion right now, we just want to integrate our new additions." that's political speak for 'let's see if we can keep everybody happy so we don't have another mess like the Nebraska/AAU thing.'

In the meantime, although I think the situation with Nebraska is squared away, don't think there isn't some lingering fallout and a lot of hard feelings.

Meanwhile: Kentucky. When I called that a wildcard, I meant longshot--probably won't happen. But...the KY legislature mandated Kentucky to be a top 20 research institution by 2020. It ain't happening for them but it possibly makes them poachable by the B1G.
Again, a real longshot, but never underestimate the academic side of things. It makes them possibly poachable--and from the SEC.

In the meantime, while Kentucky struggles for years to get their academic act together, UConn chugs along getting more done in one year than Kentucky gets done in ten. If I didn't know better, I'd think somebody gave UConn a roadmap and a to do list...

Part of the problem with boards is the tendency to think expansion is as easy as swapping bubble gum cards in the treehouse on a summer afternoon. It's a lot more complicated than that: a lot of constituencies to appease or satisfy and a lot of vicious politics.

But, at the end of the day, the academic and research ends are important. Don't look at ACC's Louisville addition as a diss of UConn, but rather a "You made the right choice" for Maryland.

Nothing has changed my opinion that UConn is destined for B1G.


I think you're dead wrong about Neb. They're a great cultural fit for the BIG and their administrative desire to join the BIG goes back a long, long ways when discussions were at least raised during the Devaney era. Alvarez was quite instrumental in the negotiations to bring Neb into the BIG as well - a Devaney disciple. They have far fewer fans wanting back in the Big12 than say PSU fans discontent with the BIG. The only sport they fill incompatible with the BIG is baseball and some fans are upset about the fading Tx pipeline in football. I just think some Neb fans are shell shocked that Wisconsin, especially, has kicked their behinds in football & Minny has two wins against them since their membership. Neb had to adjust to the BIG & but I think their success will come in perhaps dominating fashion within 5 years - at least in the BIG West. I think Wisky will struggle under Chryst - Andersen was reaping the success, somewhat, of Bielema's recruits and structure.

For Neb, all other sports are a great fit in the BIG, esp football, wrestling, volleyball, gymnastics & they feel they've gotten an upgrade in basketball, which they have - the Big12 has for too long been dominated by KU, like Ky in the SEC. A lot of Neb alum spread into the BIG's western footprint for careers as well, albeit Colorado, Kansas and Mo as well.

The AAU thing is a bit overrated, despite Perlman's quoted claims. The AAU is overblown and the CIC as well. It's sports at the end of the day. Neb will climb up the academic rankings, but in due time. These are big state schools who answer, foremost, to their respective states - not the damn BIG.

Your thoughts on Ky are interesting, as over the years a Ky to the BIG thread occasionally pops up on Rupp Rafters: they do border In, Ill and Ohio. But they succeed more than all other BIG schools at recruiting the hot spots of the BIG footprint, without BIG membership. Their past 3 NCAA titles have included key starters out of either Ill, In or Ohio. Bottom line: they're a charter member of the SEC, which is the 3rd oldest P5 conference. Unlike Md leaving the ACC, they have 20 more years of SEC membership - two decades is a long time to further establish history & as the SEC gets closer to 85 years as a conference - loyalty stands tall. I distinctly remember the backlash most Md fans levied against the decision makers in College Park. Ky has no discontent similar to Md against the SEC. In fact most SEC fans, the homers they are, genuinely depend on Ky basketball to carry the conference.

On the other hand, and I've argued this point on here for a half year: a Ky-Duke killer in basketball is right smack center on this board: UConn. It's UConn that has won the most men's and women's titles the past 30 plus years. More specifically, it's the men's program that has won more titles than any other program in the modern era - but Ky may tie them this year - I hope not.
 
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Since I've got about eight months to kill before next season, let me yak about this stuff a bit.

Nebraska. Here's how that went down--when it came time to vote up or down on their AAU membership, two B1G schools jumped ship and voted to kick them out. Understandably, Nebraska was, shall we say, upset. Phone lines were melted in the fallout. Of course, this all played out behind the scenes.

The two schools were both dominant football schools--and, under normal circumstances, I think those two would have stood as a solid block with the other B1G schools since the issues involved were how agricultural research was counted (and the entire B1G west has a stake in that) and how the Nebraska medical should be considered since it's not in Lincoln but rather in Omaha.

However, this was not normal circumstances. This was an opportunity for the academics at those two schools to remind the administrations they perceived as "football first" that the academic community is really first.

Anyway, after that behind-the-scenes fiasco, which was finally soothed over with promises that B1G would assist Nebraska back to AAU status, it was pretty easy to figure that the only schools that could get in next had better be solid academically. (If Delaney wanted UConn then, it simply wasn't the right time.) If the schools were solid academically and had a history of anemic football--think Rutgers--all the better for keeping the academic side happy, too.

I think enough time has passed now so that a non-AAU school might be considered, but curiously, with the academic community's approval and if they're NOT a football-first powerhouse. (I think UConn has a better shot than Oklahoma.)

When Delany says, "We're not focused on expansion right now, we just want to integrate our new additions." that's political speak for 'let's see if we can keep everybody happy so we don't have another mess like the Nebraska/AAU thing.'

In the meantime, although I think the situation with Nebraska is squared away, don't think there isn't some lingering fallout and a lot of hard feelings.

Meanwhile: Kentucky. When I called that a wildcard, I meant longshot--probably won't happen. But...the KY legislature mandated Kentucky to be a top 20 research institution by 2020. It ain't happening for them but it possibly makes them poachable by the B1G.
Again, a real longshot, but never underestimate the academic side of things. It makes them possibly poachable--and from the SEC.

In the meantime, while Kentucky struggles for years to get their academic act together, UConn chugs along getting more done in one year than Kentucky gets done in ten. If I didn't know better, I'd think somebody gave UConn a roadmap and a to do list...

Part of the problem with boards is the tendency to think expansion is as easy as swapping bubble gum cards in the treehouse on a summer afternoon. It's a lot more complicated than that: a lot of constituencies to appease or satisfy and a lot of vicious politics.

But, at the end of the day, the academic and research ends are important. Don't look at ACC's Louisville addition as a diss of UConn, but rather a "You made the right choice" for Maryland.

Nothing has changed my opinion that UConn is destined for B1G.


BTW, don't deny it - you are Flugar.
 
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You realize that only a few thousand people on average post on these message boards ? Probably less than a third of them hold the opinion you state as being the prevalent one. Another third are equally opposed, while the rest (like myself) can see arguments for both. PSU has over a half a million living alumni, not to mention millions of non affiliated fans. Its fairly difficult to categorize anything you read on FOS, BWI, or 247 as being indicative of how this massive group of people think. I'm not sure what team you support,(Minnesota maybe?)but if your team wasn't a member of its current conference for close to 100 years, didn't have the majority of its alumni located within the conference's footprint, and had no competing conferences that could make a reasonable argument for your inclusion, It would stand to reason that you would be pretty satisfied with where you were positioned. PSU is different. It has options. Its unlikely that they will ever exercise them, but they are out there should they want or need to.

I don't know about that. Audibles and BWI have been overrun, esp the latter, by anti-BIG types. Bottom line: you now have Md and Rutgers, along with Ohio bordering PSU - that's plenty of cultural connection according to your alumni map. Heck, Md and NJ are two of your 5 largest chapters outside of Pa. In fact NJ is second after PA. Ohio is in the top 10. The BIG might as well claim NYC soon enough, though UConn would really help - a school I'd love to see in the BIG.

I have no doubt Rutgers was added to the BIG because of Paterno's wishes for more eastern members in the BIG - he was on record for pimping Rutgers, partly because he loved their hs football - can't blame him here. Md is a bonus. Yet these anti-BIG threads continue - the expulsion vote is the latest hot rumor & if it's true, I think some hell is coming loose for BIG brass, and the schools who voted against PSU. Minnesota doesn't see to be one of them, I can't imagine them voting against PSU. Most Minny fans I've ever spoken to enjoy PSU rivalries and the flavor they bring to the conference. Russ Rose and Cael Sanderson have my absolute respect & I've especially become a fan of Rose's coaching and successful culture - the best in all of college sports, even better than UConn Women's Basketball. I was a Jo Pa fan, but man he went way past his tenure & I sensed horrible things would come out of it - and boy oh boy it couldn't have gotten worse. May he rest in peace.
 
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I think you're dead wrong about Neb. They're a great cultural fit for the BIG and their administrative desire to join the BIG goes back a long, long ways when discussions were at least raised during the Devaney era. Alvarez was quite instrumental in the negotiations to bring Neb into the BIG as well - a Devaney disciple. They have far fewer fans wanting back in the Big12 than say PSU fans discontent with the BIG. The only sport they fill incompatible with the BIG is baseball and some fans are upset about the fading Tx pipeline in football. I just think some Neb fans are shell shocked that Wisconsin, especially, has kicked their behinds in football & Minny has two wins against them since their membership. Neb had to adjust to the BIG & but I think their success will come in perhaps dominating fashion within 5 years - at least in the BIG West. I think Wisky will struggle under Chryst - Andersen was reaping the success, somewhat, of Bielema's recruits and structure.

For Neb, all other sports are a great fit in the BIG, esp football, wrestling, volleyball, gymnastics & they feel they've gotten an upgrade in basketball, which they have - the Big12 has for too long been dominated by KU, like Ky in the SEC. A lot of Neb alum spread into the BIG's western footprint for careers as well, albeit Colorado, Kansas and Mo as well.

The AAU thing is a bit overrated, despite Perlman's quoted claims. The AAU is overblown and the CIC as well. It's sports at the end of the day. Neb will climb up the academic rankings, but in due time. These are big state schools who answer, foremost, to their respective states - not the damn BIG.

Your thoughts on Ky are interesting, as over the years a Ky to the BIG thread occasionally pops up on Rupp Rafters: they do border In, Ill and Ohio. But they succeed more than all other BIG schools at recruiting the hot spots of the BIG footprint, without BIG membership. Their past 3 NCAA titles have included key starters out of either Ill, In or Ohio. Bottom line: they're a charter member of the SEC, which is the 3rd oldest P5 conference. Unlike Md leaving the ACC, they have 20 more years of SEC membership - two decades is a long time to further establish history & as the SEC gets closer to 85 years as a conference - loyalty stands tall. I distinctly remember the backlash most Md fans levied against the decision makers in College Park. Ky has no discontent similar to Md against the SEC. In fact most SEC fans, the homers they are, genuinely depend on Ky basketball to carry the conference.

On the other hand, and I've argued this point on here for a half year: a Ky-Duke killer in basketball is right smack center on this board: UConn. It's UConn that has won the most men's and women's titles the past 30 plus years. More specifically, it's the men's program that has won more titles than any other program in the modern era - but Ky may tie them this year - I hope not.

Correction, UConn is tied with Duke: 4NCs in the modern era. But UConn went through Duke twice to win half their NCs - Ky the other two.
 
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That 2004 UConn-Duke game was a great game...The win against GT in the final erased an earlier loss to GT in the pre season NIT finals.

I actually watched those games..(I usually only watch basketball in March).
 
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When Delany says, "We're not focused on expansion right now, we just want to integrate our new additions." that's political speak for 'let's see if we can keep everybody happy so we don't have another mess like the Nebraska/AAU thing.'
...
Nothing has changed my opinion that UConn is destined for B1G.

The "mess" was PSU. Delany has acknowledged several times that he did a lousy job integrating them with the Big Ten. It's possible that reverberations from that can still be heard today whenever PSU goes into hyper-paranoia mode.

Wisconsin and Michigan voting to support the already-established guidelines for AAU membership is UConn's ticket in. Much harder to claim that B1G "gets its way" given the ouster of Nebraska.
 
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I will say this--for the similarities with Greg Flugaur, my analysis is somewhat different. I think that if the B1G had a do-over, they wouldn't take Nebraska. Although they won't say so publicly, I think they'd be happy to give'em back. (Like PSU, there's a Nebraska contingent clamoring to go back to Texas. Small but vocal.) I think B1G would completely leave the west alone. And I think they're done out west even if Boren calls (although they'd undoubtedly gulp hard).

I won't bore you with my thought processes, but if there's a wildcard at the bottom of the pile, it's this: Kentucky.

Of course, I'm frequently wrong--just ask my wife.

Nebraska gave the B1G one of the big name football programs in the country. Sure they swallowed the academics a bit as Nebraska was kicked out of the AAU almost at the same time. But, the B1G is looking at the long term. They plan to be part of the P4 and are positioning themselves to absorb the gems from whichever of the ACC (UVA, UNC, G Tech, Florida St) or XII (Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas) folds. Adding Nebraksa adds an anchor to add potential XII teams on just as Maryland did for potential ACC teams. As for Nebraska itself, of course they want to be attached to Texas, that's a major recruiting ground for them. But, if the XII does fold, Nebraska will be happy with its former conference mates joining.
 
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UVA, UNC to B1G. At which point NCState and FSU bail to SEC. UConn and Cincy replace UVA UNC and UCF and USF replace NCState FSU. The Big East is back baby.
 

pj

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TruDomGopher's account rings true. Being a traditional football power is really the only thing Nebraska has going for them. The state population is 1.88 million, the same as West Virginia, so little market for the BTN; little academics; no football recruiting ground, so the football program is likely to fade; no basketball. They really got in to the B1G just a year or two before the new model was proven, and before the B1G had committed strategically to markets, money, and academics. If they had a do-over, they'd surely prefer Missouri (6 million people, AAU) to Nebraska.

There must have been regret at the Nebraska add, that motivated the commitment to markets, money, and academics that led to the East Coast focus and Rutgers/Maryland adds. To what degree this regret was fostered by growth of cable/BTN revenues leading to a greater focus on markets, by increased emphasis on academics, by increased emphasis on national lobbying power and therefore population, or by de-emphasis on football due to concussion/injury and southern recruiting issues, we can only guess.

UConn fits the markets and money criteria and is working on academics. I think UConn to B1G makes too much sense not to happen. But, if the B1G is committed to even numbers of teams and gets opportunities to pick up the best of the ACC or B12, it's possible UConn could be passed over.

One thing I wonder is, who would the B1G prefer, UConn or Kansas? The two are almost identical as universities on all academic and sporting metrics, except that UConn is contiguous to much better markets (New York and Boston) while Kansas is contiguous to potential additions (Oklahoma and Texas). I think the B1G would prefer UConn since growing in size brings costs/risks as well as benefits, while markets are clearly beneficial to all B1G schools. FranktheTank thinks Kansas would be favored.

I think the B12 is on borrowed time and Texas will be out of reach for the B1G, so if the ACC holds together and the B1G doesn't want 15 or 17, it could come down to best 2 out of 3 from UConn, Kansas, Oklahoma. But I think what the B1G really wants is UConn + UVa or Va Tech, and stop at 16.
 
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If they had a do-over, they'd surely prefer Missouri (6 million people, AAU) to Nebraska.
...
One thing I wonder is, who would the B1G prefer, UConn or Kansas? .

Missouri was on the table at the time B1G took Nebraska. If B1G had a bigger appetite it would have taken both of them, but that could have triggered mayhem (and made for another odd number). As for Missouri's 6 million, their sports fans are diluted by 4 pro franchises, and the Cardinals tend to play into October every year.

Easy choice... UConn over Kansas. No strings attached with UConn, and an invite will not trigger a disruption in the force. The only way Kansas gets the nod is with a tie in with either OK or Texas.
 
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Do you guys really think TX and the B1G are a good match? The B1G told ND they had to be on equal footing with the other schools in the conference $$ wise and their NBC deal was a no-go. There is no way I can see UT giving up their precious LHN unless ESPN shutters it. I can see UT getting a similar deal that ND got from the ACC where they can keep the LHN though. Texas and ND deserve to be in the same conference with each other...it would be fun watching them try to one up each other to suck the life blood out of the ACC dry!!
 
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Greg Flugaur @flugempire · 24 hours ago
Big Ten Hockey will expand in the next few years and according to all public information it will not probably happen from inside B1G conf

Greg Flugaur @flugempire · 24 hours ago
Big Ten hockey on the BTN/Fox Sports has been beneficial to the network...reaping good ratings. Pie is growing. More content will be wanted

Greg Flugaur @flugempire · 24 hours ago
"@rwesthead: Interesting times in NCAA hockey. Penn State hockey program turned a profit this yr with $4.4M in revenue" Rutgers listening?
 
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Every game means something in Hockey. Doesn't mean I watch it much, but I like the concept. It would be much better without a goalie.

If ratings are up even while Big Ten hockey is down, maybe this is a big deal.
 

CL82

NCAA Men’s Basketball National Champions - Again!
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I'll believe it when I see it Boat.
 

pj

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Greg Flugaur @flugempire · 24 hours ago
Big Ten Hockey will expand in the next few years and according to all public information it will not probably happen from inside B1G conf

Greg Flugaur @flugempire · 24 hours ago
Big Ten hockey on the BTN/Fox Sports has been beneficial to the network...reaping good ratings. Pie is growing. More content will be wanted

Greg Flugaur @flugempire · 24 hours ago
"@rwesthead: Interesting times in NCAA hockey. Penn State hockey program turned a profit this yr with $4.4M in revenue" Rutgers listening?

Candidates for B1G hockey expansion:
- Cornell. Land-grant, AAU. Similar deal to Johns Hopkins lacrosse.
- Arizona State. That would be a favor to Fox and their sometimes ally the Pac.
- UConn. Presumably this would be an all-sports deal though.

Who else?
 
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Ivy League schools will not leave the Ivy League in anything for anything.
 
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BoatShow said:
Ivy League schools will not leave the Ivy League in anything for anything.

There is no ivy league for hockey. Cornell currently plays in the ECAC.
 
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specialisthusky said:
There is no ivy league for hockey. Cornell currently plays in the ECAC.

Edit: wait I'm confused now that I googled. Does Cornell play in both?
 
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Edit: wait I'm confused now that I googled. Does Cornell play in both?

Penn and Columbia do not have ice hockey teams, the remaining teams are in the ECAC. Interestingly enough, the records of the six Ivy teams against each other are recorded, which determine the Ivy League champion. A league within a league...college hockey inception
 

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