NO SATs or ACTs????

[nelsonmuntz]

Not all of them. But it’s more likely as household income increases. I would be willing to bet that there is a statistically significant correlation between household income and performance on standardized tests. I would also be willing to bet that if you set up a regression model with “performance on standardized tests” as the dependant variable, and controlled for household income, educational attainment of parents, and zip code, that you would account for a majority of the variance in scores on standardized tests.

If you take away objective standards, schools will be left with "who you know" as a criteria for admission.

 

[JimHurley]

How so?

My 2 smartest friends in high school had very comparable grades/GPAs. One was from a very low income single parent household. One was from a very rich family who paid over $4K in test prep. The first friend finished in ~85th percentile while the friend who had extensive prep finished in the 99th percentile. Very similar intelligence levels, one could afford test prep and one couldn’t...

 

[HooperScooper]

Hearing people talk about how appealing a kids "extracurriculars" are is a problem to me. It's revolting (the system, not any individuals). Kids shouldn't be doing clubs or sports only to boost a resume. Some parents treat kids like college admissions machines.

Colleges look at how involved and passionate you are in an extracurricular. They would rather see you getting heavily involved and take a leadership position in 1 or 2 things you like rather than a long list of extracurriculars just for the sake of having them on a resume. It makes sense. They want kids who will be future leaders and involved in things they like. They say there is a correlation between that and being successful in your career after college.

 

[BlueDogs]

I'm playing golf on Monday with a buddy who is better than me. He gives me strokes to make it a fair match. If only life were handicapped like golf we would have some more equity across the board.

No. You are not equal in skill. That isn’t equity. In fact if you cover the handicap, you’ve won nothing but the delusion you did. Apply that to medical school slots, law school, engineers, fighter pilots, etc. You want the most capable and skilled. Not feel goodism.

 

[lne001]

Question.

What exactly can you learn in an SAT prep course that you can't gain by taking one abbreviated sample test? (I was of an era when these prep courses did not exist.)

Besides answering as many questions correctly as possible in the given time, what other arcane knowledge is being transferred in these courses that somehow trumps one's prior ten years of formal learning?

 

[husky429]

Question.

What exactly can you learn in an SAT prep course that you can't gain by taking one abbreviated sample test? (I was of an era when these prep courses did not exist.)

Besides answering as many questions correctly as possible in the given time, what other arcane knowledge is being transferred in these courses that somehow trumps one's prior ten years of formal learning?

Types of test questions. Common questions. Study techniques. How to "read" the questions.

You haven't taken a standardized test in a LONG LONG time if you think that just knowing material from class is going to cut it.

 

[lne001]

Types of test questions. Common questions. Study techniques. How to "read" the questions.

Study techniques have nothing to do with taking an SAT test, but with what you have been doing for the past ten or more years. Types of questions (really the same as common questions) can be gleaned from a practice test in fifteen minutes. I have no clue what "how to read the question" means.

You haven't taken a standardized test in a LONG LONG time if you think that just knowing material from class is going to cut it.

Sorry, this is hilarious. What else exactly would I need besides a strong understanding of Math and the English language? That is all I had in 1964 in order to do quite well on the SAT's.

 

[alexd]

Our youngest daughter is still pissed she missed one question on her math SAT... That was 6 years ago.
She's got a Finance Masters, a fiance, a nice house in the hills of CT and a nice job now. But she still brings up that SAT 770. LOL

 

[HuskyHawk]

You're clearly missing the point, whether it's intentional or not I have no idea. Nobody is saying only privileged kids can do well on the SAT. Access to better resources gives people advantages in so many aspects of life, it's not just testing

Sure. So? I don’t have a problem with that.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Not surprised. There is a reasonable chance that the inability to hold tests this year due to COVID bankrupts the College Board. All these schools were contemplating going test optional at some point and since they have to for the 2021 class, they are piloting it now.

 

[husky429]

Study techniques have nothing to do with taking an SAT test, but with what you have been doing for the past ten or more years. Types of questions (really the same as common questions) can be gleaned from a practice test in fifteen minutes. I have no clue what "how to read the question" means.



Sorry, this is hilarious. What else exactly would I need besides a strong understanding of Math and the English language? That is all I had in 1964 in order to do quite well on the SAT's.

Honestly you just need to do a little bit of research on the subject. Your experience 56 years ago is *probably* not relevant any more, I daresay. Also... one persons experience is irrelevant anyways. We're talking about the effects on millions of kids.

I do this for a living. I taught SAT prep as a second job until I got enough extra 1:1 coaching clients in the off season. I've done the research. I have a masters degree in education admin.

Yes, what you've done for 10 years is important--duh. That's why 4th graders don't take the SAT. You think SAT prep companies are staying in business if they can't improve scores? That's the entire business model man.

There are a heck of a lot of kids with fine math and reading ability. The courses are deisgned to get there scores to the next level

 

[TheChamps990411]

My 2 smartest friends in high school had very comparable grades/GPAs. One was from a very low income single parent household. One was from a very rich family who paid over $4K in test prep. The first friend finished in ~85th percentile while the friend who had extensive prep finished in the 99th percentile. Very similar intelligence levels, one could afford test prep and one couldn’t...

I myself also noticed a big difference in the quality of education between my nephews who live in Meriden and those who live in Somers. Unfortunate.

 

[NJHusky]

I'm sure we agree on many things. It was a nice debate in the a.m. Have a good day my friend!

U2. Stay safe. Better than coffee

 

[lne001]

Honestly you just need to do a little bit of research on the subject. Your experience 56 years ago is *probably* not relevant any more, I daresay. Also... one persons experience is irrelevant anyways. We're talking about the effects on millions of kids.

Honestly, I asked a simple question, which you answered poorly so I followed up. Your above response is even poorer yet. I feel sorry for your students if this is the best you can do, and clearly understand why teaching is a job you can handle.

I do this for a living. I taught SAT prep as a second job until I got enough extra 1:1 coaching clients in the off season. I've done the research. I have a masters degree in education admin.

All this proves is that you are biased and wasted the time you spent on a MA (excluding the automatic pay increase teachers are given).

Yes, what you've done for 10 years is important--duh. That's why 4th graders don't take the SAT.

Then it seems you should be giving it the overwhelming importance in test results that it deserves.

You think SAT prep companies are staying in business if they can't improve scores? That's the entire business model man.

Yes, that is exactly what I believe, man. It is just another in a long line of scams perpetrated by scammers on ignorant and desperate people.

 

[BPT2Storrs]

Based on this thread it seems as if the college admissions process is still as grueling as it was 15 years ago when I was in HS.

What I find troubling is that we still place this massive emphasis on college. It has caused costs to skyrocket for everyone, which has put many people (primarily the underprivileged and working class) in ridiculous debt. On the other side, we now fail to train anyone for work in the trades or manufacturing which are absolutely critical for our economy, thus causing those costs to also skyrocket due to the lack of skilled workforce. This impacts everyone.

Think of all the people in the workforce with college degrees, do all of those jobs and salaries justify the college investment? Is a degree really required for all of them? To all of you with careers, how much was learned in college v. on the job experience? I would assume a majority would say the latter.

SAT, ACT, the college admissions process, etc. are interesting topics to debate. As someone who has two degrees, I am not against college or the SAT, but as someone who had to work extremely hard and never had much luck with standardized testing I definitely tend to critique the system at times.

 

[HooperScooper]

Question.

What exactly can you learn in an SAT prep course that you can't gain by taking one abbreviated sample test? (I was of an era when these prep courses did not exist.)

Besides answering as many questions correctly as possible in the given time, what other arcane knowledge is being transferred in these courses that somehow trumps one's prior ten years of formal learning?

I have 2 sons who have had some tutoring for the SAT. There are definitely strategies to taking the test that are hard to pick up by yourself. Although there are some pretty good books these days that are helpful in teaching the tricks.

Many people don't like these standardized tests because it's not just a test of your mental abilities or what you've learned in school.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I came from a fairly poor background. Never tried very hard in school . I didn’t take the PSAT’s .I was not invited to the SAT prep classes and didn’t take the fall test. On a whim a teacher told me to sign up for the spring test. I was out until 2:00am the night before overslept and got to the test just as they were about to close the door . My SAT’s were higher than most of the kids that preped. So I’m sad to see them go. As they might have saved me.

 

[husky429]

Honestly, I asked a simple question, which you answered poorly so I followed up. Your above response is even poorer yet. I feel sorry for your students if this is the best you can do, and clearly understand why teaching is a job you can handle.



All this proves is that you are biased and wasted the time you spent on a MA (excluding the automatic pay increase teachers are given).



Then it seems you should be giving it the overwhelming importance in test results that it deserves.



Yes, that is exactly what I believe, man. It is just another in a long line of scams perpetrated by scammers on ignorant and desperate people.

Ok boomer

 

[dennismenace]

Colleges look at how involved and passionate you are in an extracurricular. They would rather see you getting heavily involved and take a leadership position in 1 or 2 things you like rather than a long list of extracurriculars just for the sake of having them on a resume. It makes sense. They want kids who will be future leaders and involved in things they like. They say there is a correlation between that and being successful in your career after college.

I don't think it has to be an either/or thing. If you have demonstrated academic proficiency in HS and on standardized tests you should also demonstrate involvement in extra-curicular activities. That used to be called a well rounded education. Social engineering and activist training are political (PC); not educational.