NLRB rules against NCAA

[superjohn]

Because a court will rule that way in a few years and after multiple failed appeals, it will be law.

I doubt it.

 

[shizzle787]

I doubt it.

We will see but it has been heading that way for the last 5 years.

 

[upstater]

Mmmm, are you sure about that? I would be astounded if research money is just added to the schools general funds and doesn't come with specific use limitations.

Unrelated questions:

Do grad students get paid for doing outside funded research? I would guess yes. Do they need to join a union to do so? If not, would their unionizing potentially impact the cost of research?

Funded Grad students -- by contract -- are not allowed to moonlight at all.

Yet they do. I know I waited tables while I also put in 80 hours a week as a grad student, and I served a table of my employers! They obviously didn't say a word. But it was in my contract.

Prepare to be astounded! Universities take a huge cut of research money for general use. Now, while universities take 60% of the grant and the rest is given to the grant winner(s), it's the university's job to fund all indirect costs (buildings, facilities, supplies, etc.) which means that the university then returns about 30% of the grant to the project. The rest goes into the general fund. Effectively, it's 30%.

 

[CL82]

Funded Grad students -- by contract -- are not allowed to moonlight at all.

Yet they do. I know I waited tables while I also put in 80 hours a week as a grad student, and I served a table of my employers! They obviously didn't say a word. But it was in my contract.

Prepare to be astounded! Universities take a huge cut of research money for general use. Now, while universities take 60% of the grant and the rest is given to the grant winner(s), it's the university's job to fund all indirect costs (buildings, facilities, supplies, etc.) which means that the university then returns about 30% of the grant to the project. The rest goes into the general fund. Effectively, it's 30%.

Are grad student researchers allowed to unionize, because if athletes end up doing it, I would fully expect grad students to be next.

 

[upstater]

Are grad student researchers allowed to unionize, because if athletes end up doing it, I would fully expect grad students to be next.

Depends on the state and public/private.

I had a situation in which I had a non-teaching 3 year fellowship that paid better than a grad-assistantship, but after the 3 years were over, I accepted a regular TA ship for lower pay. The union refused to allow a step down in pay which meant that, effectively, I had lost my assistantship. Eventually the administration bowed and just paid me at the same rate as my fellowship. So, yes, I was part of a grad union. Most public schools in many states have that structure. Few privates do, though I believe Yale U. has a union.

 

[CL82]

Depends on the state and public/private.

I had a situation in which I had a non-teaching 3 year fellowship that paid better than a grad-assistantship, but after the 3 years were over, I accepted a regular TA ship for lower pay. The union refused to allow a step down in pay which meant that, effectively, I had lost my assistantship. Eventually the administration bowed and just paid me at the same rate as my fellowship. So, yes, I was part of a grad union. Most public schools in many states have that structure. Few privates do, though I believe Yale U. has a union.

Thanks. This has been interesting.

 

[huskymedic]

Another perspective on the issue (just scroll past first ad break):

College Athletes Becoming Employees Will Have Consequences

sports. media. finance.

blog.johnwallstreet.com

 

[upstater]

Another perspective on the issue (just scroll past first ad break):

College Athletes Becoming Employees Will Have Consequences

sports. media. finance.

blog.johnwallstreet.com

Or, you could spin off sports and create a pro model that has nothing to do with the university except for renting the name/logo for branding.

Let each team keep ALL of their revenue and share it with the players. But again, there'd be no scholarships or room & board. All of that would come out of the revenue.

 

[huskymedic]

College Athlete Union Push Arrives as Schools Face Budget Clouds

It's increasingly likely that college athletes will be recognized as employees and unions. Universities then face hard legal and economic choices.

www.sportico.com

High stakes NLRB trial against USC, Pac-12 and NCAA resumes

The consequential National Labor Relations Board's trial of USC, the Pac-12 and the NCAA resumes Monday in a Los Angeles regional office.

www.on3.com

 

[huskymedic]

Assisted access <<

 

[Vowelguy]

I am quite confident that whatever happens, there will be some big unintended consequence somewhere. Whether it’s sports getting cut or players getting fired or some other unforeseen issue. Which isn’t to say it will be on net bad (I don’t know either way), but I’m sure it will not be 100% good.

 

[superjohn]

I am quite confident that whatever happens, there will be some big unintended consequence somewhere. Whether it’s sports getting cut or players getting fired or some other unforeseen issue. Which isn’t to say it will be on net bad (I don’t know either way), but I’m sure it will not be 100% good.

It would be a disaster for college sports.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[Viet Vet]

Coach, "Johnson, you're dogging it. Give me ten laps."

Johnson, "No way, that's not in the collective bargaining agreement."

 

[B1GEast]

The men's team has voted to create a labor union

Dartmouth men's basketball team votes to unionize, though steps remain before forming labor union

The Dartmouth basketball team have taken an unprecedented step toward forming the first labor union for college athletes.

apnews.com

 

[husky429]

I'm wondering how this will hold up with the NLRB and whatever court it lands in. On the one hand, they aren't strictly employees. On the other, grad students have been unionized in many places for as long as I can remember, and they aren't really employees either. I don't know many of the details, but it's an interesting case.

 

[NJHusky]

At what point do some schools say it's not worth the hassle and just shut down school sponsored sports and let it become an activity?

 

[Zonepress]

At what point do some schools say it's not worth the hassle and just shut down school sponsored sports and let it become an activity?

That’s easy
With the money dries up

 

[BigTenFan]

At what point do some schools say it's not worth the hassle and just shut down school sponsored sports and let it become an activity?

Make it a club sport-problem solved

 

[NJHusky]

That’s easy
With the money dries up

How many school athletic depts are cash flow positive? Sure the big boys are but I doubt any BE schools are

 

[How Sway?!]

The men's team has voted to create a labor union

Dartmouth men's basketball team votes to unionize, though steps remain before forming labor union

The Dartmouth basketball team have taken an unprecedented step toward forming the first labor union for college athletes.

apnews.com

Apparently, this is only relevant to Private schools at the moment, so it might not be as impactful as previously thought.

 

[upstater]

I'm wondering how this will hold up with the NLRB and whatever court it lands in. On the one hand, they aren't strictly employees. On the other, grad students have been unionized in many places for as long as I can remember, and they aren't really employees either. I don't know many of the details, but it's an interesting case.

There's a big difference here though.

Grad students are basically paid room & board to teach classes. Around $20k.

The players already receive room & board and all expenses and fees as well.

Effectively, the players and the grad students are already reimbursed similarly.

For places like Dartmouth and a great many other schools, I'd argue that grad students bring in quite a bit of money to the school. I had 100 students a year as a grad student, so that means I soaked up lots of credit hours. I was at a state institution. I imagine at a place like Dartmouth, some of these TAs are bringing in $500k in revenue a year (100 students times 4 credits).

 

[husky429]

There's a big difference here though.

Grad students are basically paid room & board to teach classes. Around $20k.

The players already receive room & board and all expenses and fees as well.

Effectively, the players and the grad students are already reimbursed similarly.

For places like Dartmouth and a great many other schools, I'd argue that grad students bring in quite a bit of money to the school. I had 100 students a year as a grad student, so that means I soaked up lots of credit hours. I was at a state institution. I imagine at a place like Dartmouth, some of these TAs are bringing in $500k in revenue a year (100 students times 4 credits).

I agree the ballers have an uphill climb here.

Grad students bring in a ridiculous amount of value to the school. Storrs (not the branch campuses) can have trouble finding adjuncts and grad students fill the gaps. PhDs are basically free labor that people in search of prestige enroll in. My wife was always frustrated by that.

Funded programs already only have a 3-15% admissions rate or so in her field, but schools around the country are still graduating 25-30x as many (literally) PhD students as jobs pop up every year. It's genuinely a miracle she was able to find a tenure-track job with rock solid benefits an hour from home. I was prepared to move anywhere in the country when our relationship got serious. Most people adjunct for years, do post-docs for a decade, etc.

UConn pays much better than 20k though, which is nice. More than room and board. PhD students aren't living in luxury, but all of them I knew (too many) were able to rent apartments off-campus. Many adjunct elsewhere for more money too.