NLRB rules against NCAA | Page 4 | The Boneyard

NLRB rules against NCAA

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auror said:
There is no benefit from the school to the athlete for club sports, so I'm not sure what you're saying. There is no relationship between a school and a club sports team other than the fact that the membership is voluntarily made up of a population of local college students.
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Actually these clubs get thrown a few bucks by the schools. It’s called placate kids that want to do sports but we have no interest in supporting. Ski teams, equestrian, rugby, bowling, etc.
 
giddyup said:
Actually these clubs get thrown a few bucks by the schools. It’s called placate kids that want to do sports but we have no interest in supporting. Ski teams, equestrian, rugby, bowling, etc.
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Yeah, but if that would be the difference of having to pay people as employees and not, they would no longer.
 
upstater said:
This has nothing to do with NIL. This has to do with union wages and union benefits. They will need to cap practice time, and it could -- at the bigger schools -- eat into those $5k stipends.

Once you join a union, you also have to pay taxes on your income. Stipends aren't stipends anymore. In addition, depending on the parties in power, congress has gone after tuition remission as income in the past for paid employees. This is a very different thing than work-study.
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Nothing to do with being in a union or not being in a union. If your scholarship is determined to be income for tax purposes, it taxable. Right now it mostly is not. One wonders what the impact might be on other scholarships if athletic ones are ruled taxable income.
 
mussels said:
“"Because Dartmouth has the right to control the work performed by the Dartmouth men's basketball team, and the players perform that work in exchange for compensation, I find that the petitioned-for basketball players are employees within the meaning of the (National Labor Relations) Act," NLRB Regional Director Laura Sacks wrote.”(underlining mine)

So the test is apparently whether the university can control the “work” (practices and games presumably) performed, and the players receive compensation. Clubs wouldn’t seem to meet eitner criteria. (but I am scratching my head over what compensation the non-scholarship Ivy League players are receiving, since I thought colleges couldn’t directly pay kids)
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What about the Universities and their non athlete students? Kids get free educations, room and board, food and they are obligated to take classes where professors set the schedules and the work the students have to do so that they keep getting that free education, room and board, food etc.
 
freescooter said:
Nothing to do with being in a union or not being in a union. If your scholarship is determined to be income for tax purposes, it taxable. Right now it mostly is not. One wonders what the impact might be on other scholarships if athletic ones are ruled taxable income.
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To the contrary. It's a NLRB case about the right to unionize. The vast majority of campus workers in the country fall under the same umbrella as faculty and are therefore covered by the same agreements. In some states you can ask out of the union, but that still means you get union wages and benefits.
 
mussels said:
“"Because Dartmouth has the right to control the work performed by the Dartmouth men's basketball team, and the players perform that work in exchange for compensation, I find that the petitioned-for basketball players are employees within the meaning of the (National Labor Relations) Act," NLRB Regional Director Laura Sacks wrote.”(underlining mine)

So the test is apparently whether the university can control the “work” (practices and games presumably) performed, and the players receive compensation. Clubs wouldn’t seem to meet eitner criteria. (but I am scratching my head over what compensation the non-scholarship Ivy League players are receiving, since I thought colleges couldn’t directly pay kids)
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First, the NLRB has ruled on this multiple ways in the past, and none of the rulings seem to have convinced other directors as to which way to vote.

But at this point, players do receive some compensation over and above scholarships and room & board. They receive about $5k.
 
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superjohn said:
What about the Universities and their non athlete students? Kids get free educations, room and board, food and they are obligated to take classes where professors set the schedules and the work the students have to do so that they keep getting that free education, room and board, food etc.
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The NLRB actually ruled against the petition of Brown U. grad assistants to unionize because it determined they were not workers, even though they received these forms of compensation.
 
upstater said:
But at this point, players do receive some compensation over and above scholarships and room & board. They receive about $5k.
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Yes, they do get "paid" above just the scholarships, etc. I had a friend that played soccer at a school in the Patriot League. They would give him around $300-500 per away game for meals.
 
auror said:
There is no benefit from the school to the athlete for club sports, so I'm not sure what you're saying. There is no relationship between a school and a club sports team other than the fact that the membership is voluntarily made up of a population of local college students.
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Not always true....I skied on a club racing team for my school. The school paid for the lift tickets and paid a stipend to the students that drove to the mountain.
 
fatlucy said:
I hear you but why do athletes get such preferential treatment over academics? What’s the business model? I can see revenue sports but the rest?
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When was the last time you saw 20k people buy tickets to a physics bowl?
 
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NJHusky said:
When was the last time you saw 20k people buy tickets to a physics bowl?
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When's the last time a corporation gave a player $50m to conduct research?

Here's what's even more perverse: the school takes 60% of that $50m and uses 5% of the 60% to subsidize sports!?!?!?!?
 
upstater said:
When's the last time a corporation gave a player $50m to conduct research?

Here's what's even more perverse: the school takes 60% of that $50m and uses 5% of the 60% to subsidize sports!?!?!?!?
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At least college sports bring a tremendous amount of enjoyment to people and opportunity to kids. Schools waste 10's of millions on stuff that doesn't provide any benefit to anyone other than those who are in on the grift.
 
superjohn said:
At least college sports bring a tremendous amount of enjoyment to people and opportunity to kids. Schools waste 10's of millions on stuff that doesn't provide any benefit to anyone other than those who are in on the grift.
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I know we've had this discussion before, but the tuition increase in excess of inflation by colleges is insane.
 
Vowelguy said:
when was the last time you saw 200 people buy tickets to a college swim meet?
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Depends which school....but I doubt most swimmers get full reimbursement like BB & FB. Most Baseball folks are on partial schollys, not full
 
superjohn said:
At least college sports bring a tremendous amount of enjoyment to people and opportunity to kids. Schools waste 10's of millions on stuff that doesn't provide any benefit to anyone other than those who are in on the grift.
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NJHusky said:
I know we've had this discussion before, but the tuition increase in excess of inflation by colleges is insane.
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You're looking at tuition, not spending. The important thing to look at is expenditure per student if you want to measure the rise in costs versus inflation. Tuition is a totally different measure that is determined by many different things other than cost.

Are colleges spending too much? Look at expenditures.
 
NJHusky said:
I know we've had this discussion before, but the tuition increase in excess of inflation by colleges is insane.
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Sticker price yes. But how many are paying that? Colleges are huge on price discrimination. The price paid by the average student can be significantly below advertised tuition.

Eg, Trinity sticker price is 64k, but average student pays <30.
bigfuture.collegeboard.org

Trinity College Tuition and Costs - BigFuture College Search

Trinity College costs $31,806 after scholarships and grants, with 59.57% of students receiving financial aid and an average aid package of $58,133. Financial aid applications are due March 1.
bigfuture.collegeboard.org bigfuture.collegeboard.org
 
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upstater said:
When's the last time a corporation gave a player $50m to conduct research?

Here's what's even more perverse: the school takes 60% of that $50m and uses 5% of the 60% to subsidize sports!?!?!?!?
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Mmmm, are you sure about that? I would be astounded if research money is just added to the schools general funds and doesn't come with specific use limitations.

Unrelated questions:

Do grad students get paid for doing outside funded research? I would guess yes. Do they need to join a union to do so? If not, would their unionizing potentially impact the cost of research?
 
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There will no way to reach consensus on this topic. College was created to educate. Now one can make the argument that other than a few professions college has lost some of the inherent value of get a degree get a good job/ career and live happily ever after. Now it seems 65% of the of the majors available will do very little in doing either for person getting their bachelors degree. My opinion if this expands the biggest risk is the G league. Why play in a league with no crowd pressure if basketball becomes a business and players can claim their major is basketball they can spend all their time working on their craft. Specialized coaches could be hired and in all I think the game improves. Pretty radical but where are we really going anyway.
 
Pure speculation on my part, but a few questions

I suppose unionization only occurs at individual schools, not nationwide. Which means larger schools will not share their money with the Dartmouths of this world.

Will players receiving NIL actually want to unionize? I think not

What happens to union members who transfer or quit or flunk out? Are they still part of the union?

What happens when they graduate? Unions usually protect and argue for long-term benefits. What's their job when there's turnover every year and members leave after 4 years?

Looks like a big nothing burger to me. No teeth, but kids think they accomplished something. Until they graduate, then they'll wonder what we're they thinking

And who's going to coach at a unionized program? Kids get to call the shots? Furgetaboutit
 
If college players are paid professionals and are ulitmately considered employees, let’s get rid of the 5 years to play 4 rule. There are already football players playing 7 plus years as it is. Let the employers decide how long they keep an employee so long as they are taking classes. JR Smith playing college golf, let him play hoops, what’s the real difference. Implement this quick enough and maybe we get Cam for another couple years until he gets his masters. Perhaps Dan Hurley can bring back James B to get him straight and maybe bring back Ray for some shooting off the bench.
 
Ultimately, schools are going to pay their athletes at least a minimum wage for hours associated with time spent on the athletic activity (practice, games, travel, etc.).

Most schools will go along with this but a few will drop athletics, many will drop several sports, and some schools may even close because of this.
 
shizzle787 said:
Ultimately, schools are going to pay their athletes at least a minimum wage for hours associated with time spent on the athletic activity (practice, games, travel, etc.).
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Why?
 
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