New offer out for 2014 PG Devin Watson | Page 3 | The Boneyard

New offer out for 2014 PG Devin Watson

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Or Purvis can fill a Ben Gordon role and have the ball in his hands a lot to create, and we just need to be find someone who can be the Taliek and get things organized and fill a role as a glue guy. There's no single formula that succeeds - other than having talented playmakers on the perimeter somewhere. In 1999, our role guy on the perimeter who we didn't look to score much was the two (Ricky), same as 2009 (Austrie). In 2004, it was the point guard (Taliek), which was similar to Ollie in 1994-95. In 2011, it was the SF (Roscoe) or the PG (Napier) when we went small - same as 1996, when Rudy was SF and Ricky came in. With Purvis and Calhoun/Hamilton at the 2 and 3, we've got talent, so perhaps all we need is the Taliek/Ollie/freshman Bazz type PG. Unless Purvis or Hamilton don't pan out like we hope (or pan out so well they leave after one year), which is always a possibility. It certainly wouldn't be a bad thing to get a stud PG, and sort out everyone's roles from a position of strength - rather than have no choice but to give someone more responsibility than they are capable of (ie Olander last year)..

I also hope we never get another Marcus Williams. Or, well, I hope we get someone who can pass like him, but who is nothing like him otherwise. Personal distaste.


I agree with the first 90% of your post, but am curious about your beef with Marcus Williams. His off-court judgment and work ethic were questionable, but his combination of scoring and passing ability were unsurpassed. He carried us to the Elite 8 in 2006.
 

CTBasketball

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I don't trust videos anymore after Andre Drummond.

But the offer does make sense, but he probably was told he won't get any serious PT unless he improves leaps and bounds.
 
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I agree with the first 90% of your post, but am curious about your beef with Marcus Williams. His off-court judgment and work ethic were questionable, but his combination of scoring and passing ability were unsurpassed. He carried us to the Elite 8 in 2006.

I've ranted on this before, and I know I'm in the minority so you certainly don't have to see it my way, but here goes:

I have a hard time getting past the fact that Marcus was a part of two preseason No. 1 teams and did his best to f them both up off the court. We survived without him the first time when he couldn't bother showing up for classes as a freshman - I frankly wish we tried again the second time without him, because he had proven to me by up again that you can't count on him. It should have ripped his heart out to the core to not be there to win a ring in 2004, and he had a chance for a reprieve, and then he screwed up even worse. Those two f-ups probably cloud my judgment a little on the rest.

On the court, I thought that Marcus was way too aloof for a leadership role. Lazy. Hollywood. Didn't give a s***. That was a trait that showed up throughout his career - he didn't give a s*** that he let the team down in 2004, and he didn't give a s*** about getting his 12 percent body fat down to something respectable for the NBA (which is why he lasted 1/10 as long as our current head coach). He played like he thought the little things didn't matter and that we could just simply outscore teams and/or make some plays at the end, and everyone fell in line behind him. Perhaps had AJ been around, he could have filled some of that void (Ben could be aloof too, but had Taliek alongside him to rally the troops, be an energy guy, dive for loose balls, etc.). But the same team that showed some impressive toughness playing shorthanded with a deer-in-the-headlights Austrie and beating two top 10 teams anyway in Maui, gave up 80+ points in every postseason game (except the one we were down 10 to Albany in the second half).

Marcus was outstanding against Kentucky - probably his signature game with us, especially given what Rondo has gone on to do - but he was frankly hot garbage against Washington and George Mason, until it was hero time late and then he turned it on to try to bail us out of a hole we wouldn't have been in if he had played a full 40. To his credit, he had a big "and one" late in both games, and then had an impact in both OTs, helping his stat line. But I was cursing him up and down the whole way through the Washington game for lazy turnovers (high school crap like one-handed crosscourt passes that led to UW layups), not getting back on D, not guarding anyone, etc. We were dead in the water, but Rashad hits two huge threes in the last 30 seconds (with Marcus getting that and-one in between), so we get another life. He was 30 seconds from ending with a hollow 15-point, 5-assist, 7-turnover stat line. Then with a minute to go in regulation against George Mason, Marcus had five points on 2-8 shooting and we were in desperation mode - then he makes some plays. Too late.

But if I liked Marcus, I'd probably have long ago forgotten the first 39 minutes of UW and GM and would remember him for being clutch. I had established a dislike for him, and probably had a case of "confirmation bias" - looking for the things that proved my preconceived conclusions. Not having AJ those two years might have changed everything.
 
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I agree with the first 90% of your post, but am curious about your beef with Marcus Williams. His off-court judgment and work ethic were questionable, but his combination of scoring and passing ability were unsurpassed. He carried us to the Elite 8 in 2006.

But if his off-court judgment and work ethic hadn't been questionable, would he have had to carry us to the Elite 8?
 
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I agree with the first 90% of your post, but am curious about your beef with Marcus Williams. His off-court judgment and work ethic were questionable, but his combination of scoring and passing ability were unsurpassed. He carried us to the Elite 8 in 2006.

Again I know the Marcus doubters and the Taliek lovers and both have their reasons. As far as basketball put Marcus on the 2004 team and they don't lose and probably would have no one sniffing them in any games. I don't care about who was better on defense as there is no doubt about that one, but the 2004 team would have scored at will on the offensive end with Marcus at the helm. Like him or not he was easily a better offensive player therefore making the offense even tougher to guard while giving Taliek the defensive prowess. Hey they both count and TB was "tougher" no doubt, but they win with either at PG in 2004 anyway!
 
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Again I know the Marcus doubters and the Taliek lovers and both have their reasons. As far as basketball put Marcus on the 2004 team and they don't lose and probably would have no one sniffing them in any games. I don't care about who was better on defense as there is no doubt about that one, but the 2004 team would have scored at will on the offensive end with Marcus at the helm. Like him or not he was easily a better offensive player therefore making the offense even tougher to guard while giving Taliek the defensive prowess. Hey they both count and TB was "tougher" no doubt, but they win with either at PG in 2004 anyway!

Well, I can't disprove a hypothetical, but all the circumstantial evidence we do have points firmly to the contrary. Marcus couldn't lead his team to a win over George Mason with a FF on the line. In basically that same situation - loaded UConn team against a big underdog in the Elite Eight - Taliek led us to an epic blowout of Alabama despite Emeka getting hurt and scoring two points.

Marcus was at the helm for two years and was a part of three of the four worst postseason losses in our history by seed (a 2-11 vs NC State, a 1-11 vs Mason, and a 1-8 vs Syracuse in the BET) - and the fourth was when AJ tore his ACL. Taliek was 18-3 in the postseason his last three years with no bad losses. Marcus was 4-4 in his two years with three bad losses, and two of the wins were against a 15 seed and a comeback over a 16 seed. Washington was a bloody miracle in a game we deserved to lose, and we went down to the wire with a pedestrian Kentucky team. No signature wins. No A games. We were almost always trying to rally from behind (Albany, NC State, Washington, Mason - and we dug a big hole against Cuse before taking a late lead before GMac's three).

There was some bad luck that Marcus had to deal with - we were an infirmary in 2005, and he had no sidekick in the backcourt for both years with AJ's illness. Give him AJ (the Ollie to MW's Sheffer) and maybe everything is completely different since his weaknesses would be better covered. But Taliek had some bad luck too - during his senior year, his backup flunked off the team, for one thing. Emeka missed two BET games (and most of that Alabama game). And he lost one postseason game when he set someone up for a layup and the ball got stuck in the rim with the arrow pointing the other way.

I'll give you another hypothetical you can't disprove: George Mason scored on something like 16 of 17 possessions in the final eight minutes of regulation and OT (not counting missed FTs when we fouled them on purpose). No way Taliek lets that happen. He'd pressure the PG, double down on a big once in a while and recover, and disrupt what Mason was trying to do - all the things Marcus was frustratingly incapable of. If he had Marcus-Ben-Rashad on the perimeter in 2004, who's guarding anyone? None of those guys Even with Emeka we probably give up a lot of points and try to outscore teams - which was our failed m.o. in 2006. The reason we blew everyone out in the 2004 run (sans the 15 minutes Emeka was in foul trouble vs Duke) is that we scored AND we got stops.
 
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our bigs were simply incapable of guarding those behemoths on gmu. If okafor was on that team, they wouldn't be jump hooking him to death. Tony skinn wasnt the main problem.We also don't beat udub without mwill. adding him to 04 would just make that one of the best two way teams in NCAA history
 
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Well, I can't disprove a hypothetical, but all the circumstantial evidence we do have points firmly to the contrary. Marcus couldn't lead his team to a win over George Mason with a FF on the line. In basically that same situation - loaded UConn team against a big underdog in the Elite Eight - Taliek led us to an epic blowout of Alabama despite Emeka getting hurt and scoring two points.

Marcus was at the helm for two years and was a part of three of the four worst postseason losses in our history by seed (a 2-11 vs NC State, a 1-11 vs Mason, and a 1-8 vs Syracuse in the BET) - and the fourth was when AJ tore his ACL. Taliek was 18-3 in the postseason his last three years with no bad losses. Marcus was 4-4 in his two years with three bad losses, and two of the wins were against a 15 seed and a comeback over a 16 seed. Washington was a bloody miracle in a game we deserved to lose, and we went down to the wire with a pedestrian Kentucky team. No signature wins. No A games. We were almost always trying to rally from behind (Albany, NC State, Washington, Mason - and we dug a big hole against Cuse before taking a late lead before GMac's three).

There was some bad luck that Marcus had to deal with - we were an infirmary in 2005, and he had no sidekick in the backcourt for both years with AJ's illness. Give him AJ (the Ollie to MW's Sheffer) and maybe everything is completely different since his weaknesses would be better covered. But Taliek had some bad luck too - during his senior year, his backup flunked off the team, for one thing. Emeka missed two BET games (and most of that Alabama game). And he lost one postseason game when he set someone up for a layup and the ball got stuck in the rim with the arrow pointing the other way.

I'll give you another hypothetical you can't disprove: George Mason scored on something like 16 of 17 possessions in the final eight minutes of regulation and OT (not counting missed FTs when we fouled them on purpose). No way Taliek lets that happen. He'd pressure the PG, double down on a big once in a while and recover, and disrupt what Mason was trying to do - all the things Marcus was frustratingly incapable of. If he had Marcus-Ben-Rashad on the perimeter in 2004, who's guarding anyone? None of those guys Even with Emeka we probably give up a lot of points and try to outscore teams - which was our failed m.o. in 2006. The reason we blew everyone out in the 2004 run (sans the 15 minutes Emeka was in foul trouble vs Duke) is that we scored AND we got stops.

It's all hypothetical......I know one other thing I can't prove one way or the other, Taliek wouldn't have kept us in the game making those jumpers and passes that Marcus vs GMU.........that whole tourney he proved to be a catalyst on offense and a very good one. And he didn't Emeka or Ben Gordon playing beside him either and that is THE difference! Let's not compare Hilton to Emeka or anyone else to Ben.........he brought a less talented team to the Elite 8 and carried them on his back times..........
 
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our bigs were simply incapable of guarding those behemoths on gmu. If okafor was on that team, they wouldn't be jump hooking him to death. Tony skinn wasnt the main problem.We also don't beat udub without mwill. adding him to 04 would just make that one of the best two way teams in NCAA history

I think this kind of make's Gurleyman's point. Marcus' talent was undeniable, an he probably would have shined in a backup role. But his character was awful, and when he was given the keys, his team underachieved.

I loved watching him play - point guards who are that much fun are few and far between, and I'm glad he went to UConn. I can't pretend for a second, though, that the Marcus Williams era was as satisfying as the eras of the guys who came before (KEA, Taliek) or after (Price, Kemba, Shabazz).

That's what he's measured against.
 
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I think this kind of make's Gurleyman's point. Marcus' talent was undeniable, an he probably would have shined in a backup role. But his character was awful, and when he was given the keys, his team underachieved.

I loved watching him play - point guards who are that much fun are few and far between, and I'm glad he went to UConn. I can't pretend for a second, though, that the Marcus Williams era was as satisfying as the eras of the guys who came before (KEA, Taliek) or after (Price, Kemba, Shabazz).

That's what he's measured against.

Funny how the rest of the team doesn't matter in this comparison, just the PG's? Hmmmmmm..........again 2 real good players but we can't pretend for a second that not having Okafor and Gordon would not make a difference. I believe if Marcus never got in trouble in the laptop deal and turned out to be a better pro this argument would be different for many of you!!
 

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Post-season records
  • Shabazz Napier: 13-2
  • Ryan Boatright: 2-2
  • Kemba Walker: 16-4
  • AJ Price: 4-4
  • Marcus Williams: 4-4
  • Taliek Brown: 19-4
  • Khalid El-Amin: 19-3
  • Ricky Moore: 24-4
  • Doron Sheffer: 13-5
  • Kevin Ollie: 9-8
I don't think its correct to judge a player off of post-season success. Not taking anything away from Taliek, but you could have had a true freshman play on that 2004 team and they probably still would have won. I think Taliek was one of the best PG's in Husky history because he won all the time, but Marcus Williams had the most PG talent. He may have slacked on defensive, but he was one of the best offensive point guards we've ever had.
 
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I don't think anyone has said anything about AJ, Doron or KO and how they had the keys and didn't drive their respective teams to the finish line!! All with very good teams surrounding them but they also didn't have a #2 & #4 draft pick playing next to them.........this isn't about who was better it's about Marcus and his character I'm afraid.
 

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Post-season records

  • [ ]Shabazz Napier: 13-2
    [ ]Ryan Boatright: 2-2
    [ ]Kemba Walker: 16-4
    [ ]AJ Price: 4-4
    [ ]Marcus Williams: 4-4
    [ ]Taliek Brown: 19-4
    [ ]Khalid El-Amin: 19-3
    [ ]Doron Sheffer: 13-5
    [ ]Kevin Ollie: 9-8
I don't think its correct to judge a player off of post-season success. Not taking anything away from Taliek, but you could have had a true freshman play on that 2004 team and they probably still would have won. I think Taliek was one of the best PG's in Husky history because he won all the time, but Marcus Williams had the most PG talent. He may have slacked on defensive, but he was one of the best offensive point guards we've ever had.

Considering that choking the offense before it gets in to its flow is one of the primary responsibilities of a PG that's a big BUT to overlook.
 

CTBasketball

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Considering that choking the offense before it gets in to its flow is one of the primary responsibilities of a PG that's a big BUT to overlook.

I disagree with you. I don't think its fair to put the blame on MW for the 2005/2006 seasons. When I watched those games, he and Rashad were the only ones to show up. I think he missed a layup in 2005 against NCST, but that shouldn't be the reason why they lost.
 
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Considering that choking the offense before it gets in to its flow is one of the primary responsibilities of a PG that's a big BUT to overlook.

Both teams were well prepared with shotblockers in the back of the defense but I agree Chin it is important to cut the head off the dragon but it's also important to have a dragon the other team needs to guard when you set up offensively!!;)
 
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I think this kind of make's Gurleyman's point. Marcus' talent was undeniable, an he probably would have shined in a backup role. But his character was awful, and when he was given the keys, his team underachieved.

I loved watching him play - point guards who are that much fun are few and far between, and I'm glad he went to UConn. I can't pretend for a second, though, that the Marcus Williams era was as satisfying as the eras of the guys who came before (KEA, Taliek) or after (Price, Kemba, Shabazz).

That's what he's measured against.
His character was awful? haha. I should have said 'replacing brown with Williams' since all you did was read the last sentence of my post. It's pretty clear there is an unjustified bias towards marcus, many of you believing he's thug or something. anyway marcus is doing great playing in the euroleague
 
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I don't think anyone has said anything about AJ, Doron or KO and how they had the keys and didn't drive their respective teams to the finish line!! All with very good teams surrounding them but they also didn't have a #2 & #4 draft pick playing next to them.........this isn't about who was better it's about Marcus and his character I'm afraid.

It isn't always the end result, but how it happens. The 1995 team played well through the whole tourney - beat an excellent Maryland team with Joe Smith, and then lost a good fight to top-seeded UCLA. AJ got to a Final Four - played really well to get there (punked Texas A+M), and lost to an excellent Michigan State team in Detroit. MW's team was down 12 to Albany, pulled a houdini to beat UW, and lost to a mid-major that Florida toyed with in the FF.

Pre laptop-gate, I liked Marcus. I didn't hold flunking off the team as a frosh against him (kids make mistakes, and no harm done), and I didn't hold 2005 against anyone - we were a human infirmary and Rudy fell down trying to guard Hodge in a tie game. Then came the laptops in an offseason prior to a "national title or bust" kind of year which boggled my mind coming from a kid who blew a chance at earning a ring 18 months prior. Then we decide to let him play (which I thought we shouldn't have - but reasonable minds can disagree), we go undefeated without him (Maui was a tougher field than the East Regional), and got wiped out by Marquette in his first game back when we gave up almost 100 points. That set a tone for me where I thought MW was an entertaining player, but not a guy who you want with the keys to the car (at least not without a co-pilot to handle most of the important stuff). Our postseason struggles reinforced that.

But, yeah, in a parallel universe where AJ had been healthy and that team won a title, I'd probably only hold the off-court stuff against him. Or I'll give you another one: had he been born two years earlier and we could have put Jerome Dyson on that team, that would have solved a lot of problems. Then maybe everyone else would like Dyson more.
 
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I don't think we win the 2004 title if Taliek is subbed out for Marcus. Sure, we would have been a much better offense, and maybe even one of the most efficient offenses ever - but everybody knows defense wins championships (this is not just an old cliche I'm falling back on, it's supported by advanced stats), and whatever we gained offensively with Marcus at the helm in 04 would have been nullified and more by his lethargic defensive mindset. Let's not forget, although Ben was the two and Taliek was the one, Taliek would always guard the opposing teams best perimeter scorer (if he was in the same ballpark height wise) while Ben would handle a Craig Austrie-level player as means of conserving energy. If Taliek isn't around to do the dirty work, Ben's defensive deficiencies would have been exposed more often, and our horrific perimeter defense would have culminated in more Emeka fouls, meaning there would have been more episodes like the first half of the Duke game. These are the sort of ripple effects Taliek's absence would have caused that people do not account for. I'm just not sure how people expect we would have won a championship with the lack of one average defender at the 1-3 positions.
 
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Rudy wasn't Rudy, all of you bitched about Josh Boone all year and Hilton was inconsistent. That team wasn't nearly as good as 2004...............no comparison. Either guy with the "keys" wins it is that simple.......again Marcus being held for his off court issues. His defense wasn't bad enough to compare down the other end where one guy wasn't even considered an offensive weapon at all. Ben may have averaged 30 a game with a PG whom the other team deemed capable of scoring!! ;)
 
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