New Arena Looming?

[whaler11]

The NHL is not coming to Hartford. The league made a decision to help them move out. They were happy to splinter a percentage of the fan base to the Rangers and Bruins.

The NHL is going to put a team in the Rangers' back yard? They won't let Hamilton have a team to protect Buffalo and Toronto. Think for two seconds.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Whaler with more divine words of wisdom. Just for a split second some people around here may want goods news, even if unlikely news, but you are the little angel that appears to remind us we're all stupid.

 

[whaler11]

Would Colunbus be the best comparison of a "pro" city for Hartford? A capital city located between two larger cities, strong college team support, probably larger markets further south? Horrible franchise with little fan support, just like the Whalers. I've been to Columbus, if you take away OSU you'd have to have very similar sized markets.

No. People in Columbus care about sports.

 

[whaler11]

Whaler with more divine words of wisdom. Just for a split second some people around here may want goods news, even if unlikely news, but you are the little angel that appears to remind us we're all ing stupid.

Get your hopes up if you like but I have an NHL reference in my handle and even I know it's not happening.

The league blocked Hamilton for Buffalo and Toronto. If you drove to the International Bowl you'd realize if the league blocks Hamilton... Fairfield County is insanity. The tri-state area has proved it can't support 3 teams - yeah let's add a fourth.

Connecticut doesn't support UConn basketball for 10 games in Hartford. How can it support 40 hockey games that cost twice as much? Once you answer that I'll stop pointing out the stupidity of these conversations.

 

[Fishy]

Economics will likely prevent a hockey team from returning to Connecticut - the NHL couldn't. (At least not legally...)

An NHL team in Hartford presents no economic threat to the NY Rangers or Boston Bruins - completely different animal than would exist in the Hamilton market.

Hamilton's arena would be about 40-45 miles from Buffalo and 90 miles from Toronto. The NHL's competitive 'radius' is 50-miles, so if a team wanted to go to Hamilton, they might have to compensate Buffalo or fight the NHL in court. That dude from RIM is determined to get a team, so we'll likely find out which way that breaks eventually.

Hartford is 130 miles from MSG and 110 miles from Fleet or whatever it's called - well outside of their competitive boundaries.

 

[zls44]

Hartford desperately, desperately needs a new arena.
And somebody to pay for it.
Regardless of the NHL returning.

 

[Hoophound]

Ok, I'll just chime in with the standard fare on Whaler related threads. The Whalers had good fan support. The idea that they didn't is a fallacy. For a crappy team, the support was even better.

A hockey team can thrive in Hartford but it needs to be well run and it needs to operate in an arena that maximizes profits.

Also, Hartford is not a small market. The population of the tiny city of Hartford is a geographic issue. When combined with West Hartford, East Hartford etc. it is a bigger population base than many other areas with or courting pro teams. Greater Hartford is a legit market.

 

[pepband99]

Get your hopes up if you like but I have an NHL reference in my handle and even I know it's not happening.

The league blocked Hamilton for Buffalo and Toronto. If you drove to the International Bowl you'd realize if the league blocks Hamilton... Fairfield County is insanity. The tri-state area has proved it can't support 3 teams - yeah let's add a fourth.

Connecticut doesn't support UConn basketball for 10 games in Hartford. How can it support 40 hockey games that cost twice as much? Once you answer that I'll stop pointing out the stupidity of these conversations.

You're flat out wrong. The league blocked Hamilton for Balsillie (the RIM guy Fishy mentions). Think of him like Mark Cuban trying to get into MLB - there is an active faction against him. Toronto needs no help. Buffalo is closer to being contracted than they are to blocking Hamilton.

Your point about 3 teams is even more puzzling, given that the league just let the Islanders move within a subway ride of MSG.

I know, you'll call me an idiot, blah blah blah, your usual nonsense, but you're 10000000% wrong on Hamilton. On the NHL returning to Hartford, it's a ridiculous long shot that should be discussed in same tones as winning powerball, UConn getting a B1G invite, etc...

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

I dont think NHL is coming back to CT but if it did and a new arena was constructed I would say it would New Haven. As I said before population wise and proximity to NYC while still be far enough away. Also transportation options make it easier to attend games. New Haven also has the best food options of any city in the state and enough night life areas. They already have one of the best universities in the world located there. New Haven if given the proper care and revitilization can become a very attractive city.

I would scoop up season tickets so fast if they came to New Haven, but... no. I just don't think so.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

The NHL is not coming to Hartford. The league made a decision to help them move out. They were happy to splinter a percentage of the fan base to the Rangers and Bruins.

I don't understand how former Whalers fans could defect to the Rangers or Bruins. I still don't like those teams. It's hard to find another team to adopt, but I can't switch sides to regional rivals, that's for sure.

 

[junglehusky]

I would scoop up season tickets so fast if they came to New Haven, but... no. I just don't think so.

Yeah I don't see the political juice for an arena in New Haven, of any size. If DeStefano and his cronies don't want it, and Yale doesn't want it, and there's no other angel investor bigwig pushing an arena, it's not going to happen.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Columbus Crew attendence has been down drastically the last couple years

The Crew’s attendance has dropped recently, likely due to a combination of the economy and a less exciting team, especially without McBride. Regardless, if the Crew sold-out every game; but, Ohio State decided they needed more space to park RV’s or to build a statue to Urban Myer, the state would knock the soccer stadium down in a heartbeat.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I don't understand how former Whalers fans could defect to the Rangers or Bruins. I still don't like those teams. It's hard to find another team to adopt, but I can't switch sides to regional rivals, that's for sure.

I did switch to the Rangers back when I was in college primarily because I wanted to root for the hometown hero, Brian Leetch. I live in NJ now and continue to root for the Rangers. I will never be able to root for the Bruins. Nevertheless, I was sad to see the Whale go and am certain that the NHL is never coming back to Hartford, especially while ‘Sunbelt’ Bettman is in charge.

 

[RS9999X]

Malloy would love to have a plan in place for the 2014 election season.

Better yet, he'd like corporate partners involved with the decision.

There was one proposed plan that had decent backing to move the XL to either 1) Albany Avenue to act as a fortress wall on the other side of I-84 and Albany Avenue. This would free up a good chunk of city land between the on either side of the I-84 ramps. There would be a glass walkway over I-84. The other proposal was East Hartford to finish with the Entertainment complex. Adriens Landing and the Rent Cabela's area would be the New Hartford. The goal with both propsals is to create space in Hartfordwhere the XL is now for apartments and mixed local retail and add at least 2,000 urban residents.

 

[whaler11]

You're flat out wrong. The league blocked Hamilton for Balsillie (the RIM guy Fishy mentions). Think of him like Mark Cuban trying to get into MLB - there is an active faction against him. Toronto needs no help. Buffalo is closer to being contracted than they are to blocking Hamilton.

Your point about 3 teams is even more puzzling, given that the league just let the Islanders move within a subway ride of MSG.

I know, you'll call me an idiot, blah blah blah, your usual nonsense, but you're 10000000% wrong on Hamilton. On the NHL returning to Hartford, it's a ridiculous long shot that should be discussed in same tones as winning powerball, UConn getting a B1G invite, etc...

Maybe I'm wrong on Hamilton and you are right it is personal with Balsillie. Toronto needs no help, but why would they want to give away the support of a fairly large city when they can just keep it. If the league doesn't have a problem with a team in Hamilton why isn't anyone else trying to move there - it's a slam dunk if they had a team

We agree on Hartford - they can chase their tails if they feel like it but it's not happening.

A fourth team in the tri-state area makes no sense when 2 of the 3 teams currently there aren't exactly strongholds of wide support. There are a lot of Rangers fans in Fairfield County - they would never allow anything within their territorial rights. The Islanders may end up with better support in Brooklyn but it won't be much at the Rangers expense.

 

[methodology]

Whaler you are wrong. The Rangers would have zero say in a team being in CT. Also you are clamoring that Rangers fans living in CT would have zero interest in a CT based hockey team.

First off the population and demographics make it more than feasible to support 4 hockey teams within a 250 mile radius. If you took the population and divided it among those 4 teams their market share would still be higher than other NHL cities. It is absolutely bogus for someone to claim that 4 teams are unable to be supported in this area. The population is here and the expendable income is in this area of hte country is here. Its the same concept with baseball. If baseball truly wants to limit the unfair built in advantage of the New York Yankees (because of their location and demographics) they would relocate or add a team to Brooklyn or the tri state area. They would only take a very small slice of the pie and Yankees would still hold supreme but it would be a long term move in an effort to build a fanbase of decades. You would say they would struggle thisn and that and the third and no one would go to see them play, etc.... You would be incorrect. They would still succeed business wise and the Yankees would still be the most dominant brand of baseball in the world.

There are 1000s of people like me in the state of CT who are not HUGE hockey fans. I dont watch all that much hockey but I do watch playoff hockey. I dont have a favorite team since they dont exist anymore. If the NHL came back to CT I would buy season tickets no questions asked. I know of atleast 10 others who would buy season tickets also. There are also those fans who went o Rangers and Bruins fans that use to be Whalers fans who would most likely switch back. You then have a younger generation that would grow up and love their only CT professional sports team. And then there would be the people who would be fans just because they are doing well or whatever (there are fairweather fans in every city in every sport).

Then add to the fact that CT would play X number of games against the Bruins, Rangers, Islanders.... That would bring in visiting fans and add to attendance figures.

 

[Husky25]

First off the population and demographics make it more than feasible to support 4 hockey teams within a 250 mile radius. If you took the population and divided it among those 4 teams their market share would still be higher than other NHL cities. It is absolutely bogus for someone to claim that 4 teams are unable to be supported in this area.

I believe Whaler was referring to putting a team in Fairfield County. The Rangers absolutely have a say down there. he Islanders probably do to a their AHL team is in Bridgeport.

The teams he is referring to are New Jersey, Islanders, Rangers, and a potential Connecticut team. By bringing up 250 miles, you bring Boston into the mix, when they weren't even considered in the original point.

 

[methodology]

And Whalers is the only one talking about Fairfield County. No one is saying to put a team in that part of hte state. I did mistakenly bring Boston into the mix but if he is talking about the Devils then the Bruins have to accounted for also.

I feel New Haven would be the best place logistics wise and Hartford is the other option.

Whalers just sounds like a kid at the park who decides he doesnt want anyone else using his ball and decides to go home. Fact is there is enough population in this area of the country to support 4-5 teams from the Boston-CT-NYC-NJ area.

CT and the tristate area is more than capable having 4-5 teams

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/baseball_markets.shtml

 

[Husky25]

New Jersey plays in the Meadowlands, about 3 miles from MSG as the crow flies. Boston is just under 200 miles from the most northern point of the Bronx. Why don't you talk about Buffalo too? At least they are located within the tri-state area.

 

[upstater]

Economics will likely prevent a hockey team from returning to Connecticut - the NHL couldn't. (At least not legally...)

An NHL team in Hartford presents no economic threat to the NY Rangers or Boston Bruins - completely different animal than would exist in the Hamilton market.

Hamilton's arena would be about 40-45 miles from Buffalo and 90 miles from Toronto. The NHL's competitive 'radius' is 50-miles, so if a team wanted to go to Hamilton, they might have to compensate Buffalo or fight the NHL in court. That dude from RIM is determined to get a team, so we'll likely find out which way that breaks eventually.

Hartford is 130 miles from MSG and 110 miles from Fleet or whatever it's called - well outside of their competitive boundaries.

I's actually 55 miles to Buffalo and 35 miles to Toronto. Toronto is also 70 miles from Buffalo.

I hear you though about legal entanglements, but we are talking about a region with over 10 million people living there. It seems they could do with an extra hockey team especially in a part of the continent where hockey is the number one sport and there is not much in the way of other pro sports (Blue Jays, Raptors, Buffalo Bills, MLS soccer, CFL football).

 

[methodology]

New Jersey plays in the Meadowlands, about 3 miles from MSG as the crow flies. Boston is just under 200 miles from the most northern point of the Bronx. Why don't you talk about Buffalo too? At least they are located within the tri-state area.

Are you sure its the Meadowlands and not the Prudential Center in Newark?

 

[Husky25]

No I'm not. I thought it was the Meadowlands at one point, but I could be wrong. Regardless. Newark is not much more further and an argument could be made that even Newark is within the Ranger Media Market. Certainly not 100 miles like New Haven or Hartford or 200 miles like Boston.

 

[Husky25]

If there really is money out there for a new arena, I'd rather see it used to refurbish the XL and expand the Rent.

There is a widely subscribed to school of thought that it would cost less to build anew in Hartford, than to refurbish.

Basically it is too small, and the luxury boxes are not so luxurious. They are at the very top of the arena, where a ticket 1/10 the price gets you a better live vanage point. Yes they have Televisions, but if you wanted to do that, stay home...No one, corporation or individual, sees major league value in that.

 

[methodology]

Thats the point that is being overlooked here.

NYC is a different animal than all the other NHL cities. The population is so large in the tristate area that the normal rules that protect smaller markets from a team infringing dont really apply in this instance. There is still a large enough population that even with 4 teams in the tristate area they would still have market sizes above the average NHL market.

The average NHL market size is 4.5 million. The NYC market alone is 21 million.

 

[Husky25]

That is population. How many of those people are hockey fans? More to the point, how many are hockey fans, willing to spend disposable income on a new team and potentially change alliances due mainly to proximity?

Take me for example. I am a Bruins fan. Yes, I would probably watch them play a game in Hartford from time to time. I would probably not change my alliance to a CT based team though, especially with all the outlets through which I can follow the Bruins.

That's all I'm trying to say...

 

[Glastonhusky]

There is a widely subscribed to school of thought that it would cost less to build anew in Hartford, than to refurbish.

Basically it is too small, and the luxury boxes are not so luxurious. They are at the very top of the arena, where a ticket 1/10 the price gets you a better live vanage point. Yes they have Televisions, but if you wanted to do that, stay home...No one, corporation or individual, sees major league value in that.

I could never figure out why they put those boxes at the top of the arena. I thought I read somewhere that any renovations would involve moving them to mid-level, I guess that would be expensive. If a new arena is in the works, I'm all for it as long as UConn hockey and bball can use it.

 

[John]

Not true. When we move up to middle school, we upgrade our birthday parties from the roller rink to the ice rink. Incidentally, you look up the bottom of NHL attendance the last few years, and the teams you see over and over again are Winnepeg, NY Rangers, Phoenix, Columbus, Colorado, Anaheim, and NJ. They shuffle around, but a safe bet your bottom 5 is coming from that list.

as far as the Rangers go, I wonder if it's the ticket prices? I was going to take my son to a game until I saw the prices that MSG was offering for what can be kindly called crappy seats. I then checked out the Islanders website, and those prices were much more reasonable for much better seats.

 

[John]

I could never figure out why they put those boxes at the top of the arena. I thought I read somewhere that any renovations would involve moving them to mid-level, I guess that would be expensive. If a new arena is in the works, I'm all for it as long as UConn hockey and bball can use it.

weren't the boxes added after the arena had already opened?

 

[CL82]

New Jersey plays in the Meadowlands, about 3 miles from MSG as the crow flies. Boston is just under 200 miles from the most northern point of the Bronx. Why don't you talk about Buffalo too? At least they are located within the tri-state area.

New Jersey plays in Newark (Pru Center, same place as the Seton Hall games.) It is just at short PATH ride to NYC from there so your point holds.

 

[whaler11]

Whaler you are wrong. The Rangers would have zero say in a team being in CT. Also you are clamoring that Rangers fans living in CT would have zero interest in a CT based hockey team.

First off the population and demographics make it more than feasible to support 4 hockey teams within a 250 mile radius. If you took the population and divided it among those 4 teams their market share would still be higher than other NHL cities. It is absolutely bogus for someone to claim that 4 teams are unable to be supported in this area. The population is here and the expendable income is in this area of hte country is here. Its the same concept with baseball. If baseball truly wants to limit the unfair built in advantage of the New York Yankees (because of their location and demographics) they would relocate or add a team to Brooklyn or the tri state area. They would only take a very small slice of the pie and Yankees would still hold supreme but it would be a long term move in an effort to build a fanbase of decades. You would say they would struggle thisn and that and the third and no one would go to see them play, etc.... You would be incorrect. They would still succeed business wise and the Yankees would still be the most dominant brand of baseball in the world.

There are 1000s of people like me in the state of CT who are not HUGE hockey fans. I dont watch all that much hockey but I do watch playoff hockey. I dont have a favorite team since they dont exist anymore. If the NHL came back to CT I would buy season tickets no questions asked. I know of atleast 10 others who would buy season tickets also. There are also those fans who went o Rangers and Bruins fans that use to be Whalers fans who would most likely switch back. You then have a younger generation that would grow up and love their only CT professional sports team. And then there would be the people who would be fans just because they are doing well or whatever (there are fairweather fans in every city in every sport).

Then add to the fact that CT would play X number of games against the Bruins, Rangers, Islanders.... That would bring in visiting fans and add to attendance figures.

The Rangers would absolutely have say on a team in Fairfield County. If you think that the tri-state area has supported 3 teams well over the years that is far from reality. Listen to WFAN they talk about hockey about once every 3 months unless the Rangers are making a playoff run. Ranger fans wouldn't change teams - there was a team here and they were Ranger fans then - why would a FFLD Cty Ranger fan move to a Hartford team?

Maybe you aren't old enough to remember what already happened here. There would be even less corporate support today than there was 15 years ago. A generation already grew up here with their own professional team - how did that work out?

There are more basketball fans in CT than hockey fans. We don't support the highly successful men's basketball team in Hartford over fewer games and lower dollars. How could anyone expect long term solid attendance for an NHL team?