Neinas: Wvu's Entrance Contingent On Being Available Next Year

[HuskyHawk]

For the law people out there, anyone have an educated guess as to how long this might take in the court system to figured out whether WVU has to stay in the BE, or whether they can leave. Normally, as someone that has no idea about law, I would say this is a mess and guess a couple years. But I'm assuming this can get expedited somehow given the time frame WVU is trying to leave in. Anyone know?

2017.

 

[businesslawyer]

That's what I was looking at! It's just outrageously stupid!

"We're just becoming familiar with the bylaws of the Big 12," Luck said. "There's lots of details we have to look at, but we'll get to that in due time and we'll make prudent decisions based on the best interests of our student-athletes and our university."

Why should he bother to read their By-laws? He's already demonstrated to the Big East that he doesn't care what is in them anyway.

 

[uconnric]

For the law people out there, anyone have an educated guess as to how long this might take in the court system to figured out whether WVU has to stay in the BE, or whether they can leave. Normally, as someone that has no idea about law, I would say this is a mess and guess a couple years. But I'm assuming this can get expedited somehow given the time frame WVU is trying to leave in. Anyone know?

If the Big East seeks an injunction to prevent WVU from playing in the Big Twelve next year, a hearing on a temporary order could come fairly quickly. I would doubt that this will ever go to trial, but it has the potential to be pretty interesting. I guess that's why Syracuse and Pitt aren't making noise about challenging it. The Big East has to be consistent in how it treats all 3 schools.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I see no reason for the Big East to ever settle this claim. This is one of those rare situations where the liabilities are potentially unlimited, and will grow larger over time. If I am the Big East, I would never agree to any conditions for WVU's withdrawal other than those in the existing contract.

 

[Druken Friar]

Right now the venue is Morgantown, is there any way to change the location? It seems like WVU does have a significant home field advantage.

Doesn't the conference have a specific legal venue that all schools have agreed to before hand? How long does the conference have to respond to the filing?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Where would they get that from? Maybe from many on the board who assumed the Big East could just get out of its ESPN deal whenver it wanted, or ignore the exclusive negotiating window that was in that agreement?

The negotiating window was and is a joke. Damages are difficult to prove, because the Big East was under no obligation to sign with ESPN under an circumstances. I agree with you that we should simply ignore or use a relatively simple work-around like having Boise begin negotiations.

That TV deal was life or death, and I was right about that. If dissolving the league or a major reconstruction was needed to get around that deal, the league should have done it.

WVU is simply tearing up a contract and walking away, and about half the posters on this board think that is a great idea.

 

[businesslawyer]

We don't know if the parties all agreed to one venue to resolve disputes (although if they didn't in the wak of the last law suit every school President and Tranghese should be lined up and shot).

If they did not agree to another jurisdiction, the Big East will, I assume try to get the case moved to federal court in WV. I am not an expert in jurisdiction, as opposed to contracts and corporate governance, so others can analyze that for you.

Varies by jurisdiction but you normally have 30 days to respond, and that date is often extended. In this case, I would expect the Big East to have papers to a court somewhere other than WV state court by Monday or Tuesday.

 

[ctchamps]

I've said this before on othjer posts and I stand by it - - the B12 is doomed. They don't like each other, they don't trust each other and they are going to split someday soon. Noone trusts UT, OU wishes they could be California girls, OSU goes where OU wants, and schools like KU, KSU, ISU and Baylor are holding on by a thread. Why do you think Mizzou wants out so badly. For the life of me I don't understand why the SEC doesn't go after OU (and OSU). Regardless, moving to the B12 is like jumping from one sinking ship to another. They are stuck between two expansionist conferences - the Pac 12 and the SEC (not to mention the B10 is sitting back waiting for schools to fall to them).

I don't blame WVU for leaving the BE; I simply think they will find themselves pimping for a conference again, very soon.

I said the same thing several post prior to yours. This whole thing is just two power players, OU and Texas, trying to beat the other university. OU, and OSU, will be bolting to the PAC, if the B12 doesn't get BYU. And I'm thinking BYU would rather park itself in the BE mess than the B12 mess if it joins a conference. This thing isn't over by a long shot for the B12.

 

[Scalito]

But you've stated a truism that doesn't add anything. Of course monetary damages is the "ordinary remedy," but that doesn't eliminate equitable relief where the standards are met (likelihood of success on the merits and irreperable harm). Care to comment on why you are confident the Big East couldn't prevail on that? You may ultimately be correct, but you haven't provided enough for anyone to be able to evaluate the likelihood of that..

It is a pretty important "truism," considering it is the default rule a litigant requesting specific performance must justify departing from. The Big East must establish that monetary damages would not adequately compensate them for WVU's breach in order to get an order of specific performance, and I don't see that happening. The damages by the loss of WVU may be hard to quantify, but it wouldn't be impossible.

 

[Druken Friar]

I said the same thing several post prior to yours. This whole thing is just two power players, OU and Texas, trying to beat the other university. OU, and OSU, will be bolting to the PAC, if the B12 doesn't get BYU. And I'm thinking BYU would rather park itself in the BE mess than the B12 mess if it joins a conference. This thing isn't over by a long shot for the B12.

Most people see the same dynamic and the resulting issues. I agree with several other posters that Texas will go independent once it is sure the dollars will be there. I think OU and OSU could end up most anywhere. I'm not sure the Pac 12 really wants them.

 

[businesslawyer]

It is a pretty important "truism," considering it is the default rule a litigant requesting specific performance must justify departing from. The Big East must establish that monetary damages would not adequately compensate them for WVU's breach in order to get an order of specific performance, and I don't see that happening. The damages by the loss of WVU may be hard to quantify, but it wouldn't' be impossible.

O.K. That I understand. If WVU leaving causes the Big East to lose its BCS spot, which is my understanding of the rules, I think it's going to be easy to show irreperable harm but we'll see. I would see far more merit in your view if WVU leaving doesn't cost the Big East BCS status, as the Orlando Sentinel article linked yesterday seemed to state.

 

[ctchamps]

That's what I was looking at! It's just outrageously stupid!

"We're just becoming familiar with the bylaws of the Big 12," Luck said. "There's lots of details we have to look at, but we'll get to that in due time and we'll make prudent decisions based on the best interests of our student-athletes and our university."

It's incredible, but all these public statements help the BE. I mean WV admits it signs contracts without examining the contents of the contracts.

 

[Scalito]

O.K. That I understand. If WVU leaving causes the Big East to lose its BCS spot, which is my understanding of the rules, I think it's going to be easy to show irreperable harm but we'll see. I would see far more merit in your view if WVU leaving doesn't cost the Big East BCS status, as the Orlando Sentinel article linked yesterday seemed to state.

Agreed. And for the record, I am hardly confident about my prognostications, but this is a message board, so why should I let that stop me from spouting off?

 

[ctchamps]

Most people see the same dynamic and the resulting issues. I agree with several other posters that Texas will go independent once it is sure the dollars will be there. I think OU and OSU could end up most anywhere. I'm not sure the Pac 12 really wants them.

I got the impression the PAC did not want the package of Texas, TT, OU and OSU, and I got the impression it was over the LHN deal that Texas would not share with the PAC. I think OU has been trying everything possible to get Texas to reconsider this contract or to work out a situation in which the B12 could survive if/when Texas goes independent. This is why OU wants 12 teams while Texas insists on 10. I believe Texas does not want a B12 conference to exist when it goes independent hence the 10 teams. If OU can't get things to work out it finally splits ways with Texas. I still think they head to the PAC, but the SEC is a realistic possibility. And I believe it happens sometime this season, unless BYU accepts a B12 invite.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I got the impression the PAC did not want the package of Texas, TT, OU and OSU, and I got the impression it was over the LHN deal that Texas would not share with the PAC. I think OU has been trying everything possible to get Texas to reconsider this contract or to work out a situation in which the B12 could survive if/when Texas goes independent. This is why OU wants 12 teams while Texas insists on 10. I believe Texas does not want a B12 conference to exist when it goes independent hence the 10 teams. If OU can't get things to work out it finally splits ways with Texas. I still think they head to the PAC, but the SEC is a realistic possibility. And I believe it happens sometime this season, unless BYU accepts a B12 invite.

This is all far too Machiavellian for reality. UT has no interest in destroying the Big XII. I don't think UT or OU want to play in the PAC. I think UT was attractive to the PAC and OU knew losing UT would kill the Big XII. When the PAC saw that UT was wedded to the LHN, they said F-off. Now that the Big XII has come to grips with the LHN, I think it sticks. OU wants to be in a league with UT and vice versa. The KS Schools want to be in a league with the OK schools. The SEC could come calling for UT and OU, but (1) they will have the same problems with the LHN and (2) winning in the SEC is hard enough, adding OU and UT would make it impossibly difficult.

Go back to 2003. LSU over OU. 04: USC over OU. 05: UT over USC 06: UF over Ohio St. 07: LSU over Ohio. St. 08: UF over OU. 09: Bama over UT. 10: Auburn over Oregon.

Given that the USC appearances were vacated, the SEC plus OU and UT have won every championship since 2003. The losing team was in this group half the time.

 

[SubbaBub]

Given that the USC appearances were vacated, the SEC plus OU and UT have won every championship since 2003. The losing team was in this group half the time.

This is the other part of this conference realignment mess that I don't understand. For many of these teams a.four loss season causes a full conniption within the donor base. Why does everyone seem to want to join an equivalent of the AL east where there are 4 or more powerhouse programs?


Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

 

[ctchamps]

This is all far too Machiavellian for reality. UT has no interest in destroying the Big XII. I don't think UT or OU want to play in the PAC. I think UT was attractive to the PAC and OU knew losing UT would kill the Big XII. When the PAC saw that UT was wedded to the LHN, they said F-off. Now that the Big XII has come to grips with the LHN, I think it sticks. OU wants to be in a league with UT and vice versa. The KS Schools want to be in a league with the OK schools. The SEC could come calling for UT and OU, but (1) they will have the same problems with the LHN and (2) winning in the SEC is hard enough, adding OU and UT would make it impossibly difficult.

Go back to 2003. LSU over OU. 04: USC over OU. 05: UT over USC 06: UF over Ohio St. 07: LSU over Ohio. St. 08: UF over OU. 09: Bama over UT. 10: Auburn over Oregon.

Given that the USC appearances were vacated, the SEC plus OU and UT have won every championship since 2003. The losing team was in this group half the time.

I made my arguments based on A&M, Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri recent actions. Nebraska and A&M had strong ties to Texas and OU but something upset them enough to head elsewhere. And there was a lot of quotes made by the OU president after the PAC rejection that gave me the impression there was tension between OU and Texas and that OU was considering options independent of the other B12 schools.

So I'm weighing this body of events in coming up with my conclusion. Does it mean I believe this will definitely be the sequence of events. No. It just means I consider it very plausible, and will continue to monitor what people say and do to see if my theory is accurate, partially accurate or wrong.

 

[businesslawyer]

This is the other part of this conference realignment mess that I don't understand. For many of these teams a.four loss season causes a full conniption within the donor base. Why does everyone seem to want to join an equivalent of the AL east where there are 4 or more powerhouse programs?


Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

They don't. but they are all so blindly chasing dollars at this moment in college sports that they have all forgotten that they will be fired when they don't win enough games regardless of the bottom line.

 

[mattp]

I see no reason for the Big East to ever settle this claim. This is one of those rare situations where the liabilities are potentially unlimited, and will grow larger over time. If I am the Big East, I would never agree to any conditions for WVU's withdrawal other than those in the existing contract.

i agree. normally a breach of contract is solved with a monetary payout, but when you consider the logistical difficulties created by letting them out next year in terms of scheduling and what-not i don't know that it can be settled with just money

 

[CL82]

Good one. See what you can come up with when your Mom doesn't edit your posts.

Care to answer why WVU needed to go to court if it already knows it's not staying in the Big East for next season?

Didn't you read his post? It was "due diligence". As an attorney surely you should know that people do their due diligence by filing suit to vacate a contract after an acquisition has taken place.