Need to get into P4 conference | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Need to get into P4 conference

Drfla said:
At the moment it has more to do with basketball than football. If you think the SEC and Big10 are going to only be happy with dominating football, I think you are wrong. basketball is next.
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Can't wait for your posts after UConn hoops wins dual championships again.
 
I blame Val Ackerman, as commissioner of the Big East, for letting things get to the state they are in. Clearly no vision for the conference, we continue to tax schools on travel budgets with Marquette and Creighton, have become a two-tier conference in mens and womens basketball, and we know she is not a great executive having had no real vision for the WNBA when she was it's first commissioner.

Ultimately, then whoever voted for her to be the Big East commissioner should have known Ms. Mediocrity was not going to life the Big East at all.
 
superjohn said:
Can't wait for your posts after UConn hoops gets dual championships again.
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It is not about now. I think with our bb coaches and the culture they have cultivated we are well positioned now. In the future will culture win out over money? I hope so but not so sure.

And don’t make it sound like I’m not all in on UConn basketball…because I am. Have been for over 50 years. Will support them 100% wherever they are. Love their teams this year and hope to celebrate dual championships this year with the boneyard.

Like your avatar. I actually played against the real Superjohn in the old district league. He was amazing and many levels above my talent.
 
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brihman said:
Football program is a decent ACC program at this point. We are right there. What else do they need to see?
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The ACC — like every Power conference — is really just asking one thing: will adding UConn make everyone more money? So far, their answer has been “no.” Winning more games definitely helps UConn’s image, but it’s not enough on its own to change the bigger money picture that drives these realignment decisions.
 
Rasputin said:
The ACC — like every Power conference — is really just asking one thing: will adding UConn make everyone more money? So far, their answer has been “no.” Winning more games definitely helps UConn’s image, but it’s not enough on its own to change the bigger money picture that drives these realignment decisions.
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I’m tired of hearing this. Have you seen some of the schools the big 12 and ACC have invited? They bring NOTHING to the table. What money is BC, UCF, Cincinnati, Syracuse, etc making for them.

They invited the wrong schools, diluted their conferences, and now the SEC/Big Ten are the P2.
 
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FfldCntyFan said:
He'll be able to retain a good number of those he wants to retain. I'm not sure who you're specifically interested in but the HS QB from Orlando who ended up committing to Colorado St wasn't as highly rated as the HS QB who just decommitted from Toledo.

There is a chance that player turnover will end up being a net positive for us.
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Ok. I read that this new coach did a great job with retaining kids year to year. Hopefully he can talk some of the existing guys from transferring and he’ll probably bring some of his Toledo kids and kids he recruited to Toledo.
 
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RitzLuce1 said:
I’m tired of hearing this. Have you seen some of the schools the big 12 and ACC have invited? They bring NOTHING to the table. What money is BC, UCF, Cincinnati, Syracuse, etc making for them.

They invited the wrong schools, diluted their conferences, and now the SEC/Big Ten are the P2.
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In the context of today, sure; but in the era they were added, they (sort of) made sense:

2004/5: - BC to ACC... that was an era of TV markets reigning supreme in rights deals; BC nominally opened up the Boston market to the ACC. There really weren't alternatives, as UConn was only a few years into its FBS journey, and Miami was calling the shots of who it wanted to bring along

2011 - Syracuse to ACC... still a TV market era and had been initially invited to the ACC back in 2004 before political maneuvering put Virginia Tech into their place; was envisioned to open up the NYC market to the ACC. UConn was the preferred partner with Syracuse and were, reportedly replaced with Pitt with BC's urging and the collective yawn from the rest of the league, given the money offered was the same as the Syracuse-UConn pairing.

2021 - Cincinnati & UCF to the Big XII... the Big XII was imploding with Texas & Oklahoma leaving they needed to replace them, plus add a few more teams to increase inventory to maintain their TV deal. At the time UCF had recently had its run with an undefeated and one-loss season, while Cincinnati was headed to the playoffs after a narrow miss the year before. As the Pac-12 was still seemingly healthy they got the nod; would they have if the Pac-12 implosion happened at the same time? Probably not. They were in the right place (winning programs in the AAC) at the right time (when the Big XII was desperate). UConn has hit rock bottom in football at this point & just had made the move to leave it's all sports home for a non-football primary conference. It's the right move for UConn; but UConn is unique and to those more traditional schools it's a sign that UConn isn't serious about football.


To be the right team at the right time, UConn needs to continue to demonstrate competence and show the investment that they are serious in football. Continued success from the basketball programs is a nice sweetener as conferences start to look to maximize revenue there, particularly in light of a dearth of programs that would increase revenue by a full share on their own.
 
ScottVib said:
In the context of today, sure; but in the era they were added, they (sort of) made sense:

2004/5: - BC to ACC... that was an era of TV markets reigning supreme in rights deals; BC nominally opened up the Boston market to the ACC. There really weren't alternatives, as UConn was only a few years into its FBS journey, and Miami was calling the shots of who it wanted to bring along

2011 - Syracuse to ACC... still a TV market era and had been initially invited to the ACC back in 2004 before political maneuvering put Virginia Tech into their place; was envisioned to open up the NYC market to the ACC. UConn was the preferred partner with Syracuse and were, reportedly replaced with Pitt with BC's urging and the collective yawn from the rest of the league, given the money offered was the same as the Syracuse-UConn pairing.

2021 - Cincinnati & UCF to the Big XII... the Big XII was imploding with Texas & Oklahoma leaving they needed to replace them, plus add a few more teams to increase inventory to maintain their TV deal. At the time UCF had recently had its run with an undefeated and one-loss season, while Cincinnati was headed to the playoffs after a narrow miss the year before. As the Pac-12 was still seemingly healthy they got the nod; would they have if the Pac-12 implosion happened at the same time? Probably not. They were in the right place (winning programs in the AAC) at the right time (when the Big XII was desperate). UConn has hit rock bottom in football at this point & just had made the move to leave it's all sports home for a non-football primary conference. It's the right move for UConn; but UConn is unique and to those more traditional schools it's a sign that UConn isn't serious about football.


To be the right team at the right time, UConn needs to continue to demonstrate competence and show the investment that they are serious in football. Continued success from the basketball programs is a nice sweetener as conferences start to look to maximize revenue there, particularly in light of a dearth of programs that would increase revenue by a full share on their own.
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Context shouldnt change in such a short time period when you are making decisions as big and consequential as this. They never made sense. We were in a league with all of these schools. They were leeches in the big east-aac and have been even bigger leeches in their P4 leagues. Both the ACC and Big 12 are diluted with mediocrity and leeches which is why there’s now a P2.
 
FearThePups said:
Do explain.
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Meme Dis Gonna B Gud GIF

@Chin Diesel
 
Context is key. Who/whom should they have invited instead in the timeframe where decisions were being made?

20 years ago -- The ACC needs to grow to increase its rights deal, it's not strong enough to pilfer the Big Ten or SEC, leaving the Big East (and the northeast markets) as it's target. Miami is still a premier football program & is on-board to jump ship. It wants Syracuse & BC to be its partners. Who else should they have targeted?

The announcements is made in June 2003. UConn is just emerging from its transitional seasons and has never played a game in the Big East Football conference. They do have a national championship, but are not seen as being a key team to deliver Boston or New York markets. They just aren't a serious consideration at that time.

15 years ago -- The ACC still needs to grow to increase its rights deal, is still not strong enough to raid the Big Ten or SEC & the widely distributed conferences weren't a thing (in fact they were a result of the scramble to survive this expansion)? Their media partner suggests Syracuse & UConn, when they balk at UConn, the partner indicates Pitt could generate the same deal.

This & the subsequent Louisville expansion are the two situations you could argue that the ACC did make a mistake, allowing personal feelings to get in the way of good business. In 2011, both UConn & Pitt are strong basketball brands. Pitt has the stronger football history, but UConn is just coming off a trip to the Fiesta Bowl and their third national championship. The warts on UConn? Men's basketball is on probation and Jim Calhoun seems headed to retirement, Randy Edsall has just left the football program, which is had under 10 years in FBS and the Fiesta Bowl led to an impression that UConn was an undeserving team with a tiny fan-base unwilling to support their team.

5 years ago -- the Big XII is just trying to survive... it's not strong enough to pick from anyone bigger than the AAC or MWC. It needs to expand or it dies. It needed 4 teams & it took the four best available football programs, BYU, Houston, Cincinnati & UCF. Who/whom else should they have taken?

UConn at this point is at rock-bottom for football & while it made the right move to leave the AAC, it was an unusual move for major college athletics and left traditional leagues thinking UConn wasn't serious about football, with many expecting the university to end or downgrade the program. It was never a serious contender.
 
RitzLuce1 said:
I’m tired of hearing this. Have you seen some of the schools the big 12 and ACC have invited? They bring NOTHING to the table. What money is BC, UCF, Cincinnati, Syracuse, etc making for them.

They invited the wrong schools, diluted their conferences, and now the SEC/Big Ten are the P2.
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It’s wild to me that being good doesn’t mean much. It seems there’s no path to a power conference.
 
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RitzLuce1 said:
Context shouldnt change in such a short time period when you are making decisions as big and consequential as this. They never made sense. We were in a league with all of these schools. They were leeches in the big east-aac and have been even bigger leeches in their P4 leagues. Both the ACC and Big 12 are diluted with mediocrity and leeches which is why there’s now a P2.
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Now you are just ranting. How was Syracuse a leech in the Big East? Even BC was decent. UCF and Cincinnati were successful in the AAC. UConn was the one who stunk.

By the way, it's OK to rant. Get it out. We are all frustrated with what happened to UConn in realignment.
 
I think a fair evaluation of the P4 plus ND - 68 teams is that 25% are elite, blue bloods and the other 75% are a level below. 2/3 thirds of the B1G, 1/3 third of the SEC teams are no better than the entire Big 12 and 14 out of 17 ACC teams.
 
Rasputin said:
The ACC — like every Power conference — is really just asking one thing: will adding UConn make everyone more money? So far, their answer has been “no.” Winning more games definitely helps UConn’s image, but it’s not enough on its own to change the bigger money picture that drives these realignment decisions.
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Didn’t Yormark hire a consulting firm that proved that UConn was profitable if added to the Big 12? And they still voted no. Sorry but I’m not buying this argument.
 
superjohn said:
Half this board said UConn was finished competing in sports when Cuse, Pitt and the others went to the ACC.

These aren't exactly serious people.
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No offense but there are also like several other things that have since transpired that have pushed us closer into "will college athletics continue to exist" question since then. I'm worried if Congress finally does pass the SCORE Act that UConn might not survive the bloodbath that will ensue with the majority of college athletics programs. Not enough people realize how much worse the current clusterfester could get.
 
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Drfla said:
At the moment it has more to do with basketball than football. If you think the SEC and Big10 are going to only be happy with dominating football, I think you are wrong. basketball is next.
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They've said as much if folks have been paying attention.

 
We just have to keep winning 6+ college football games a season and as long as the Men and Women Bball teams remain ranked top 25 caliber teams, I'm feeling pretty good that we'll get into either the Big XII or ACC when realignment strikes again. Personally, I'd be pushing for the Big XII hard right now giving them whatever reduced share sweetheart deal they want. I think the Big XII is going to differentiate itself from the ACC in the next wave of conference realignment in 2030 but even if we do end up in an ACC without Miami, Florida State and Clemson it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Geographically it's what makes sense and it will make me less sad leave the Big East if we go to a conference where have some regional rivals.
 
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NHUConnfan said:
No offense but there are also like several other things that have since transpired that have pushed us closer into "will college athletics continue to exist" question since then. I'm worried if Congress finally does pass the SCORE Act that UConn might not survive the bloodbath that will ensue with the majority of college athletics programs. Not enough people realize how much worse the current clusterfester could get.
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What does this even mean?
 
superjohn said:
What does this even mean?
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I guess you haven't been paying attention to how the entire economics of college athletics is about to be massively disrupted then?

The reason college athletics thrive is precisely because college athletes are not employees and they don't have to treat them like that. The second college athletes get legally recognized as employees, they are unionizing en masse and many many many universities will just pull the plug because they already lose money on athletics.

We've been inching towards this over the last decade but started running towards this outcome in the last few years.
 
superjohn said:
The SEC was the best basketball conference last year of course their Commissioner is going to hype up the conference.
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It's been a decade long project. Do I need to start pulling the sources from 2016 about how they were going to start focusing on basketball after they got embarrassed?

The future of college athletics is the B1G and SEC and anyone else will be lucky to be relevant. This is a long game but it's a game they're winning.
 
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