ND Final Four team recognized.....

[Bayareahusky]

As for ND behavior, I forgive the not applauding at BS's award, though I think it is classless. Certainly not anything that would start a nuclear war.... Muffet's comments NC week... can be overlooked..... I know Geno uses his chits as well to gain edges..... "when we lost Pat Summit, the game lost class"..... OK.... silly I think but i can let that go..... it is just rhetoric.....

The trash talking by ND "it must suck to be you" etc etc..... I find a bit more offensive.... and you know ND would be up in arms if that was done to them..... but I guess moot point because we are in the drivers seat now.....

and this achonwa thing.... wow give it a rest who cares? it is one person's opinion..... i liked her game.... she was a pro down there..... and knew what she was doing.... and she seemed to make everyone else better..... but if ND couldnt win te previous year with Skylar, how could they win this year even with Achonwa in the lineup..... no ND did not choke and yes Natalie would have made SOME difference.... but to flip the game into a ND win..... nope

 

[Kibitzer]

Since we're speaking of hypotheticals:
I think Achonwa's obvious theoretical contribution
would have been more than offset by the theoretical contribution of a normal shooting evening by Bria and Moriah.

Edited to reinforce another opinion.

 

[UcMiami]

Bottom line -
1. Great for any college to celebrate their women's teams in the middle of THE cash cow football season - it is good for women's sports and for women's basketball in particular. I feel the same way about colleges celebrating their STUDENT athletes during sporting competitions when they bring out dean's list athletes and athletes who have won other academic accolades.
2. ND had a great team last year and they suffered a big loss when Achonwa went down, and they played inspired ball in the semis and demolished a Maryland team.
3. They did not played inspired ball in the final and Uconn had a lot to do with that and they got beaten in convincing fashion.
4. If they had their center for the final it would probably have been a more competitive game but we will never know. The comparison to Dolson is pretty apt because both players were the focal point around which their team's offense ran. Dolson playing on two bad wheels (but able to play) was a huge part of Uconn's previous NC. (As well as this one.)
5. Uconn has certainly experienced devastating injuries in the past that may have cost them NCs (but we will never know for sure) - the one that stands out to me is Shea because that also happened during the tournament and the team was not able to recover emotionally from that loss. ND playing the game they did against an admittedly flawed MD team in the FF was impressive, but I was not surprised they could not repeat the emotional high they rode in that game into the final.
6. I have no idea what snapped with MM in the NCAA, but I think most people can agree that her behavior was not reflective of her past behavior and stands out in a distinguished career as a low point. I can understand any other team and coach being a little annoyed with the publicity and success that Uconn gets and earns year in and year out. I can also understand that in a year with two great teams running the table through the regular season and post season, that one of those teams and its coach may feel they are being slighted compared to the other. I cannot understand the behavior she exhibited in response to that. But ... it happened and I still think she is a great coach and with that one aberrant week, she has been a great asset to the sport.
This thread sure went off the rails.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Yeah ucmiami, i too am a muffet fan, though i despise ND..... i think the woman can really coach..... and i certainly didnt mind her showing her horns a little..... no problem....

yes ND was in UConn's shadow.... but i think it is true they were always a lesser team..... i mean, i think the reason they won a few games from us the last few years was because of skylar. no skylar, who they gonna lean on? McBride Loyd and Achonwa the other 2 were fairly weak..... no way they were ever as good as us last season.....

and I am going to add again, that MD just did not come to play vs ND in the semis.... so to mark that as a fair indicator of ND strength would not be accurate me thinks

 

[Orangutan]

i mean, i think the reason they won a few games from us the last few years was because of skylar. no skylar, who they gonna lean on? McBride Loyd and Achonwa the other 2 were fairly weak..... no way they were ever as good as us last season.....

The stats don't really bear that out. On a per possession basis, Notre Dame was actually better in 13-14 than in 12-13 with Skylar. In 13-14, they scored 1.124 points per possession and allowed .819 (+.305). In 12-13, they scored 1.06 and allowed .791 (+.27).

As to the other two being weak, I'll concede that Braker was a limited player just out there for hustle plays and rebounding, but Lindsay Allen had a tremendous season for a true freshman. FG% 49.7, FT% 81.5, 3FG% 35.7, 2.2/1 assist turnover ratio. She wasn't a volume scorer, but she was a very solid pass-first point guard.

I think it's less that ND got weaker without Skylar and more that UConn got better once the switch flipped for Stewart in last year's tourney. Incidentally, the 12-13 and 13-14 UConn per-possession stats are very similar. But the eye test tells me that UConn's rarely-needed A-game was better in 13-14 than it was in 12-13, largely because Stewart is simply unplayable at her best.

 

[meyers7]

But the eye test tells me that UConn's rarely-needed A-game was better in 13-14 than it was in 12-13, largely because Stewart is simply unplayable at her best.

And I imagine she will be better as a Jr and Sr.

 

[Alydar]

The stats don't really bear that out. On a per possession basis, Notre Dame was actually better in 13-14 than in 12-13 with Skylar. In 13-14, they scored 1.124 points per possession and allowed .819 (+.305). In 12-13, they scored 1.06 and allowed .791 (+.27). .........

The improvement may in large part be due to the fact that they didn't play 4 games against UConn. Those 4 gams represented 10% of their schedule.

Another factor may have been that they were playing in a weaker conference in 13/14.

 

[doggydaddy]

The stats don't really bear that out. On a per possession basis, Notre Dame was actually better in 13-14 than in 12-13 with Skylar. In 13-14, they scored 1.124 points per possession and allowed .819 (+.305). In 12-13, they scored 1.06 and allowed .791 (+.27).

As to the other two being weak, I'll concede that Braker was a limited player just out there for hustle plays and rebounding, but Lindsay Allen had a tremendous season for a true freshman. FG% 49.7, FT% 81.5, 3FG% 35.7, 2.2/1 assist turnover ratio. She wasn't a volume scorer, but she was a very solid pass-first point guard.

I think it's less that ND got weaker without Skylar and more that UConn got better once the switch flipped for Stewart in last year's tourney. Incidentally, the 12-13 and 13-14 UConn per-possession stats are very similar. But the eye test tells me that UConn's rarely-needed A-game was better in 13-14 than it was in 12-13, largely because Stewart is simply unplayable at her best.

One thing to consider is the fact that the 13-14 stats only include the one game against Uconn while the 12-13 team played Uconn four games. That might be one difference.

In regards to Allen, like most freshman, she struggled against most of the better teams on ND's schedule, shooting below her full season numbers. She was impressive in how well she took care f the ball and will be a solid point this season.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Choke, she wouldn't have made a difference.....blech.

But it's just the opinion of a couple of fans. I'm just ignoring them.

I will say that Uconn would have still gone inside against ND even with Achonwa there. Dolson had the same size advantage as against the 6'3" Reimer. Achonwa is a better defender, but she would have made a difference defensively.

Offensively, maybe. The offense did run through her and she would have forced Dolson to play defense against her.

Who knows. Can't believe we are rehashing this again.

I didn't author that post, DD.

 

[doggydaddy]

I didn't author that post, DD.

Lol....it took me a minute to figure out what you meant.

Choke as in gag, not choke as in Fightin Choke.

 

[ndmb]

The stats don't really bear that out. On a per possession basis, Notre Dame was actually better in 13-14 than in 12-13 with Skylar. In 13-14, they scored 1.124 points per possession and allowed .819 (+.305). In 12-13, they scored 1.06 and allowed .791 (+.27).

As to the other two being weak, I'll concede that Braker was a limited player just out there for hustle plays and rebounding, but Lindsay Allen had a tremendous season for a true freshman. FG% 49.7, FT% 81.5, 3FG% 35.7, 2.2/1 assist turnover ratio. She wasn't a volume scorer, but she was a very solid pass-first point guard.

I think it's less that ND got weaker without Skylar and more that UConn got better once the switch flipped for Stewart in last year's tourney. Incidentally, the 12-13 and 13-14 UConn per-possession stats are very similar. But the eye test tells me that UConn's rarely-needed A-game was better in 13-14 than it was in 12-13, largely because Stewart is simply unplayable at her best.

I'm just happy anytime someone uses per possession stats.

 

[geneticrex]

I just re-watched the 12-13' national semi.

A healthy Achonwa against a hobbled Dolson. The player that people think would have made up for what was an absolute thumping in last years championship game, made little difference.

The 4/5 of Dolson and Stewart is superior to Achonwa and Braker and it isn't close.

 

[Aluminny69]

I just re-watched the 12-13' national semi.

A healthy Achonwa against a hobbled Dolson. The player that people think would have made up for what was an absolute thumping in last years championship game, made little difference.

The 4/5 of Dolson and Stewart is superior to Achonwa and Braker and it isn't close.

I used to think that Achonwa was overrated also. But, go back and watch her play in the 2014 ACC tournament, and the first four games of the NCAA Tournament, and you would agree that she was playing inspired basketball, arguably the best of her career. Very unfortunate for her that she went down when she did. I'm sure UConn fans can sympathize with late season injuries.

 

[OneTrickPony]

Achonwa not only had really elevated her game, but she was an emotional anchor for a team that seemed a bit high-strung to me. I think she would've improved ND's performance in the final without question. I don't think she would have been nearly enough to even the odds in the paint, however, and I don't see her presence being sufficient to have radically improved the games of the two AA guards that were effectively contained. The game would've been closer...not close...

 

[UcMiami]

Alum and One - agree about Natalie's improved game last year - she grew tremendously during her four years at ND and was really playing well - I also think she would have made the guards more effective by her passing and screens and by occupying Dolson more than her replacements were able to. I still agree, Uconn would have won, but I think it would have been a much more competitive game. We will never know.

 

[CL82]

FACTS:

Achonwa got hurt.

UConn won the game.
​

OPINIONS:

Achonwa's loss did NOT affect the outcome. (UConn would have won anyway.)

Achonwa's loss affected the outcome. (Notre Dame MAY have won with Achonwa.)

View attachment 6815​

Well that's kind of what we do here until the start of the season Kib. It saves the wear and tear on the live horses.

 

[geneticrex]

I used to think that Achonwa was overrated also. But, go back and watch her play in the 2014 ACC tournament, and the first four games of the NCAA Tournament, and you would agree that she was playing inspired basketball, arguably the best of her career. Very unfortunate for her that she went down when she did. I'm sure UConn fans can sympathize with late season injuries.

Whoa, slow down.

I didn't say Achnowa was "overrated". I simply pointed out a historical accuracy. In the previous year's semi, a very accomplished and perfectly healthy Achonwa, ran into a very unhealthy Dolson and a UCONN team that saw the uber-talented Stewart finally blossom and in that game, she made little difference. Add the fact that in that game, Achonwa had the benefit of playing with the best distributor in ND's history playing the point.

As well as Achonwa was playing prior to her injury, there isn't a team in the ACC, or anywhere else for that matter that can throw a frontcourt of Dolson, Stewart, Stokes and KML at you. Jewel Loyd had a great year too, yet she experienced stretches of great difficulty against the best (by light-years) competition she had seen all year.

The second it clicked in Stewart and the officiating stopped falling for the "Flopping" Irish gymnastics, ND did not match-up with UCONN and the last 2 meetings prove it in spades.

Bottom line, ND would certainly have been a stronger team with Achonwa and to argue otherwise is illogical, but a UCONN team at full strength would have also been a better team and to think Achonwa could have made some miraculous difference in what could have been a 30 point affair if Geno put the pedal down for 40 minutes, is just as illogical.

 

[MilfordHusky]

ND had a very good team and a great season. They were clearly the 2nd best team in the country and had a nice undefeated streak. But they ran into an even better team.

 

[uconnell]

I agree with Geneticrex's comment about Stewie clicking but especially about the ref's not falling for NDs flopping. I really think the no flopping business is what really led to their downfall,especially when they lived at the line in previous games.

 

[geneticrex]

I agree with Geneticrex's comment about Stewie clicking but especially about the ref's not falling for NDs flopping. I really think the no flopping business is what really led to their downfall,especially when they lived at the line in previous games.

No question the way the games were called played a huge roll in the outcomes.

ND had a great string of last second and overtime wins against UCONN and while you have to give them credit for getting the job done in the last minute of those games, you could count the "questionable" calls in those affairs on one CALCULATOR!!!

I firmly believe that much of the discussion that followed those games concerning some of those calls, or lack thereof, reached a level that actually led to the officials in the last 2 FF games not falling for ND's acting.

 

[FairView]

I've heard that OSHA is incorporating video from those ND wins in their coursework for controlled falling without injury in the workplace.