NCAA rules on SC's Cooper

[Orangutan]

Geno screwed up in not getting Z a waiver to play right away. All they had to do was say it was for personal reasons.

If it were up to me, I'd grant a waiver to anyone who wanted to get away from JPM

 

[UConnCat]

The biggest difference between the Cooper and Shepard waiver cases is that in the Cooper case we pretty much know the entirety of the arguments in support of her waiver petition and in the Shepard case we know next to nothing about the arguments in support of her waiver petition. Shepard initially said she was transferring to Notre Dame so she could play for championships and develop her game. Once the waiver petition was filed, the transfer became about a "hardship" (Muffet's term) and "personal reasons" (Shepard's term).

 

[DefenseBB]

The biggest difference between the Cooper and Shepard waiver cases is that in the Cooper case we pretty much know the entirety of the arguments in support of her waiver petition and in the Shepard case we know next to nothing about the arguments in support of her waiver petition. Shepard initially said she was transferring to Notre Dame so she could play for championships and develop her game. Once the waiver petition was filed, the transfer became about a "hardship" (Muffet's term) and "personal reasons" (Shepard's term).

I don't know that that is entirely true. We do know much of the Shepard context and have two conflicting statements from her-1. A Quote that she wanted to contend for a championship to someone (I have not seen it but it has been referenced many times) and 2. Her request to the NCAA on a "personal reasons" basis. They both conflict.
What we also know is the Yori situation led to the NCAA allowing any athlete from that team to transfer and immediately play. Shepard stated she would stay and give the new staff a chance. She stayed a year, decided that she wanted to transfer after having given the new staff a chance and receivec the public blessing of the staff to transfer. I think her good standing with the staff and the fact all her teammates (I thought there was one other besides Romero?) who did transfer and were allowed to play right away, forced NCAA's hand to allow her to play also.
Cooper, who had numerous minor infractions with the Lady Vols and I repeat numerous game suspensions, was by all accounts a bad seed, so her petition never made sense to me. Why Dawn thought it logical escapes any sense of logic, plus she doubled down by taking verbal shots at the NCAA. I do think she would get a 6th year to play if she petitioned. I also am bemused that some think her game is WNBA/pro eligible even though we don't know the skill set. She showed glimpses her freshman year but so what, we all need to see more. Maybe she is, maybe she isn't and how she plays next year will the determining factor...if she elects to stay. I hope she does but something doesn't quite feel right on this...

 

[DefenseBB]

If it were up to me, I'd grant a waiver to anyone who wanted to get away from JPM

"whistle"...that's a two minute infraction on an unsolicited body check to an unsuspecting party! I hear ya but in fairness to JPM, she has behaved very well since the allegations and her off-court contributions to numerous charities and community involvement are second to none in her profession.

I am curious as to what the dialogue is around ND and why Boley, in particular, transferred. That hurt ND the most.

 

[UConnCat]

We are perhaps digging too deep to find difference and ignoring the most obvious. Chatrice White (Illinois) and Jessica Shepard ( Nebraska) both had the support of the school from which they departed for the waiver request because they left those schools on good terms. Cooper did not leave TN on good terms.

Perhaps. Occam's razor.

Although I've been critical of Dawn's public statements about Cooper's petition (more hurtful than helpful), I do get the sense that Dawn knows a lot more about the Shepard case than any of us will ever know.

 

[Orangutan]

"whistle"...that's a two minute infraction on an unsolicited body check to an unsuspecting party! I hear ya but in fairness to JPM, she has behaved very well since the allegations and her off-court contributions to numerous charities and community involvement are second to none in her profession.

I am curious as to what the dialogue is around ND and why Boley, in particular, transferred. That hurt ND the most.

Yeah, I'm just joking about JPM. She just looks awfully unpleasant on the sidelines at times. But that can be said of most coaches.

I don't know anything about why Boley transferred and yes, it was a major blow. I did think it was interesting that Lindsay Allen retweeted this on April 11, one day after the Patberg and Boley transfers were announced.

LA is not prolific on social media and about the last person who I normally would expect to throw shade, so I thought that retweet was awfully interesting. Could be unrelated/coincidental, though.

 

[CocoHusky]

Perhaps. Occam's razor.
Although I've been critical of Dawn's public statements about Cooper's petition (more hurtful than helpful), I do get the sense that Dawn knows a lot more about the Shepard case than any of us will ever know.

Nailed it!
Shepard visited South Carolina before visiting and deciding on ND.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Nailed it!
Shepard visited South Carolina before visiting and deciding on ND.

You can be pretty sure that Shepherd never disclosed a personal hardship to Staley as a reason why she was transferring and Shepherd was quoted stated her reason pretty plainly. Staley would not have known what Notre Dame put in the waiver, but she was extremely surprised and frustrated when it was granted. Remember, Staley has taken transfers before and would have a good idea of the process. They may have even asked for a waiver for Davis or Gray.

Now maybe Shepherd shared some reason with Notre Dame she did not share with South Carolina and maybe it would good reason and maybe even the NCAA saw that on the third review. Or maybe Notre Dame just gave themselves enough time to fight and the NCAA chickened out at at the end as they are prone to do in the face of conflict.

I don't really see the purpose of having a sit out season if whether you actually have to sit out is an exercise in complete ad hoc discretion by NCAA officials who apply no consistent standard. I'm more irritated at the waivers granted than the ones denied.

 

[CocoHusky]

You can be pretty sure that Shepherd never disclosed a personal hardship to Staley as a reason why she was transferring and Shepherd was quoted stated her reason pretty plainly. Staley would not have known what Notre Dame put in the waiver, but she was extremely surprised and frustrated when it was granted. Remember, Staley has taken transfers before and would have a good idea of the process. They may have even asked for a waiver for Davis or Gray.

Now maybe Shepherd shared some reason with Notre Dame she did not share with South Carolina and maybe it would good reason and maybe even the NCAA saw that on the third review. Or maybe Notre Dame just gave themselves enough time to fight and the NCAA chickened out at at the end as they are prone to do in the face of conflict.

I don't really see the purpose of having a sit out season if whether you actually have to sit out is an exercise in complete ad hoc discretion by NCAA officials who apply no consistent standard. I'm more irritated at the waivers granted than the ones denied.

I'm only in agreement with you on your second to last sentence.

 

[triaddukefan]

If it were up to me, I'd grant a waiver to anyone who wanted to get away from JPM

Tech on the great ape

 

[CocoHusky]

I

View attachment 28060

Tech on the great ape

I would tend to grant

 

[Dillon77]

"whistle"...that's a two minute infraction on an unsolicited body check to an unsuspecting party! I hear ya but in fairness to JPM, she has behaved very well since the allegations and her off-court contributions to numerous charities and community involvement are second to none in her profession.

I am curious as to what the dialogue is around ND and why Boley, in particular, transferred. That hurt ND the most.

Curious about what particular dialogue? Erin Boley?
Like Orangutan, I have not heard anything about why Boley left, but do know ND put no restrictions on the transfer and did so immediately.

As for her transfer being the happening that hurt the most... gosh when Joe Frazier fires in jab after jab after jab, which one do you remember more? Which was causes the most damage?

ND's had so many moving parts this year that it would've been interesting to see where and how Erin would be used. My gut is she would have probably be used as part of a "big" rotation with Jessica Shepard and Kat Westbeld, with Koko Nelson coming into fight behemoth types.

Late last season, she was hitting the elbow jumper well once Westbeld went low last year to fill the low post once Brianna Turner went down.

On the other hand, she could have been used as a small forward from time to time against larger teams. In the last few games, you see MM playing some combination of Shepard, Westbeld, Nelson and freshman Danielle Patterson across the back of 2-3 zone to give a bigger look and also give Jackie Young, Arike Ogunbowale and/or Marina Mabrey a spell. Boley could've been used in a similar fashion.

The obvious offensive area I think she would've helped most in is, not surprisingly, shooting. Mid- to long-range shooting. Mabrey's added responsibilities have affected her long-range accuracy, so it would've been great to have Erin out there to spread out the defense.

Next year will be interesting when -- knock on hardwood -- Brianna Turner returns, presumably to the low post, with Shepard setting up in the high post made vacant by Westbeld's graduation. Shep might do more damage there, particularly with her passing abilities. If Boley was still around, she'd still be in a rotation. Since she's not, one of the Danielle's will get a shot at spelling Shep in the high post: sophomore Patterson or frosh Cosgrove.

Meanwhile in Oregon, I expect Ionescu's assist total to notch up even higher once Boley steps on the court in Eugene to start shooting her accurate and picture-perfect-form jumper.

 

[noirwestern]

Curious about what particular dialogue? Boley?
Like Orangutan, I have not heard anything, but do know ND put no restrictions on the transfer and did so immediately.

As for her transfer hurting the most, gosh when Joe Frazier fires in jab after jab, which one do you remember more?

ND's had so many moving parts this year that it would've been interesting to see where and how Erin would be used. My gut is she would probably be used as part of a rotation with Jessica Shepard and Kat Westbeld, with Koko Nelson coming into fight behemoth types.
She was hitting the elbow jumper well once Kat went low last year to fill the low post when Turner went down.

On the other hand, she could be used as a small forward from time to time against larger teams. The area I think she would've helped most in is, not surprisingly, shooting. Mabrey's added responsibilities have had an effect on her long-range bombing, so it would've been great to have Erin out there, along with Mabrey and Ogunbowale.

Next year will be interesting when -- knock on hardwood -- Brianna Turner returns and Kat Westbeld graduates. Turner will presumably go back to the low post, with Shep setting up high. She might do more damage there, particularly with her passing abilities.

I expect Ionescu's assist total to fly even higher once Boley steps on the court in Eugene.

Not sure you should get too excited over the prospect of a Turner/Shepard duo just yet considering how rocky the Stevens/Collier start has been.

 

[Dillon77]

Not sure you should get too excited over the prospect of a Turner/Shepard duo just yet considering how rocky the Stevens/Collier start has been.

I actually think it will work pretty well. Shep and Bri played together on U.S. teams and they're very much complimentary players. Offensively, Shep can pull it out a little where she has a surprisingly nimble first step. And, if anything, she'll be able to uncork the mid- to long-range jumper that she has. This has been shelved a bit because she is the low post at ND this year.

As stated, they know each other's games. Just as importantly, they like and respect each other -- Turner is probably one reason Shepard came to ND.

Will their be some growing pains? Sure. But I think this one will bear some fruit.

 

[DefenseBB]

I actually think it will work pretty well. Shep and Bri played together on U.S. teams and they're very much complimentary players. Offensively, Shep can pull it out a little where she has a surprisingly nimble first step. And, if anything, she'll be able to uncork the mid- to long-range jumper that she has. This has been shelved a bit because she is the low post at ND this year.

As stated, they know each other's games. Just as importantly, they like and respect each other -- Turner is probably one reason Shepard came to ND.

Will their be some growing pains? Sure. But I think this one will bear some fruit.

Dillon, thanks for the overview-my one question is will Turner actually return? Given the short shelf life a player has and her skills well known by all, what does she gain by coming back? I am all for her to return but similar to Tuck, what is her upside-to win a National championship would be the only one I can think of.

 

[UConnCat]

From today:

However, Staley also said she has yet to hear the official explanation for why Cooper’s waiver was denied from South Carolina’s chief compliance officer, Chance Miller, or the NCAA.

“Here’s what I believe happened,” Staley said. “They called our compliance officer who worked at the NCAA. So they gave him the answer, and then they were going to follow up with why. And I want to know the why. And obviously I don’t have it yet, but he’ll get it to me.”

So, someone from the NCAA calls SC's compliance officer -- who used to work at the NCAA -- and delivers the bad news but not the reasons why. Is there a written decision that's being delivered by carrier pigeon?

Te’a Cooper’s case for hiring a lawyer? It’s worked elsewhere, Staley says

 

[HoopsFan21]

From today:

However, Staley also said she has yet to hear the official explanation for why Cooper’s waiver was denied from South Carolina’s chief compliance officer, Chance Miller, or the NCAA.

“Here’s what I believe happened,” Staley said. “They called our compliance officer who worked at the NCAA. So they gave him the answer, and then they were going to follow up with why. And I want to know the why. And obviously I don’t have it yet, but he’ll get it to me.”

So, someone from the NCAA calls SC's compliance officer -- who used to work at the NCAA -- and delivers the bad news but not the reasons why. Is there a written decision that's being delivered by carrier pigeon?

Te’a Cooper’s case for hiring a lawyer? It’s worked elsewhere, Staley says

It's like pro sports. Everyone is in the whirlpool of the beast. It's why new coaches are always old coaches. Teams that hire former NCAA employees seeking an edge should get screwed.

 

[Dillon77]

Dillon, thanks for the overview-my one question is will Turner actually return? Given the short shelf life a player has and her skills well known by all, what does she gain by coming back? I am all for her to return but similar to Tuck, what is her upside-to win a National championship would be the only one I can think of.

Hey there: Will be short and sweet this time because I'm running out the door for a road trip. Everything my colleagues (and I) have read coming out of Notre Dame/related press/Bri seems to indicate that she intends to come back next year.
Maybe she feels she has unfinished business on the court and wants to make a run with Shep, Marina, Arike and Jackie?
Has a decent grad course chosen? Combo thereof? Could she change her mind? Sure. Hope not.....

 

[cbraarj]

Dillon, thanks for the overview-my one question is will Turner actually return? Given the short shelf life a player has and her skills well known by all, what does she gain by coming back? I am all for her to return but similar to Tuck, what is her upside-to win a National championship would be the only one I can think of.

Time to make the money! I agree!

 

[cbraarj]

Dawn should not have applied for a waiver for Cooper! Cooper should have to sit out this year by the SEC! Shepard deserved hers because of Yori.

 

[CocoHusky]

Dawn should not have applied for a waiver for Cooper! Cooper should have to sit out this year by the SEC! Shepard deserved hers because of Yori.

"Deserves"? Based on what? Shepard stayed a Nebraska 1 full year after Yori was gone.

 

[Centerstream]

"Deserves"? Based on what? Shepard stayed a Nebraska 1 full year after Yori was gone.

Based upon her "personal reasons " whatever those were. Whatever they were, it worked for her. Oh, yeah and it's the Golden Dome.

 

[CocoHusky]

Based upon her "personal reasons " whatever those were. Whatever they were, it worked for her. Oh, yeah and it's the Golden Dome.

I feel you, HOWEVER, I was on this board (mostly solo) complaining a year before when NCAA made Chatrice White of FSU immediately eligible. What was most outrageous about that decision is that White had a teammate at Illinois (Brooke Kissinger) who transferred at the exact same time to Creighton and Brooke Kissinger had to sit and Chatrice White did not. That was not right so when Shepard situation came around I kind of expected the NCAA to do something that was inconsistent.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Maybe the Shepard decision for ND helped Dawn's decision to request a waiver even though she still waited quite a while after that NCAA ruling

Ya think? However I would think a less volatile person would think ---hey let's give a try, nothing to lose and would have not done the interim comments they added nothing positive to the decision making

 

[BroadwayVa]

Based upon her "personal reasons " whatever those were. Whatever they were, it worked for her. Oh, yeah and it's the Golden Dome.

I know this is not the thought process of choice but:
The NCAA made the decision on the poetry or verse that ND handed to them. Unless Muffet has a file of infidelities on the decision makers--I would think the NCAA alone is responsible for any decision.
Like ND (I do) or don't--you can't blame them for the decision.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

The decisions, for or against, are so random. I don't think players should have to sit for a year. Students on academic scholarships don't have to sit out of their major for a year if they transfer. The NCAA promotes this bogus argument that they're "for" student athletes, but they're not; they're "for" making money and their member institutions making money.

 

[Centerstream]

I know this is not the thought process of choice but:
The NCAA made the decision on the poetry or verse that ND handed to them. Unless Muffet has a file of infidelities on the decision makers--I would think the NCAA alone is responsible for any decision.
Like ND (I do) or don't--you can't blame them for the decision.

I don't blame ND directly nor am I implying that they did anything wrong. I just believe some schools are treated "special" solely based upon their reputation and the money that they probably make for the NCAA. Just my opinion.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I don't know why everyone appears to assume Cooper has a pro career ahead of her.

A light in a darkened tunnel. Apparently, though, Dawn thinks the kid has game--or why would she rant so?

 

[CocoHusky]

The decisions, for or against, are so random. I don't think players should have to sit for a year. Students on academic scholarships don't have to sit out of their major for a year if they transfer. The NCAA promotes this bogus argument that they're "for" student athletes, but they're not; they're "for" making money and their member institutions making money.

In full agreement with you on the first two sentences. Don't see how money factors into this situation, my guess is the NCAA & schools loses more money by making then sit out. The athlete are still on scholarship, room and board, meal money are still dished out. If a star athlete is sitting that is less people coming to see the team play & less eyeballs if you on TV. Take the year Diamond had to sit at TN for example.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I don't blame ND directly nor am I implying that they did anything wrong. I just believe some schools are treated "special" solely based upon their reputation and the money that they probably make for the NCAA. Just my opinion.

\

It was not my intent to imply infer or otherwise think you said or did anything wrong--this is an OPINION FORUM--as such ALL opinions should be seen, agree or don't.
Some organization, like ND, have many years of experience writing grants, applications, waivers--they know how to do it. That would give the image of "special treatment" . I won't deny there may be some--only those inside know yea or nay. My oft posted words were to indicate ONLY---that just because ND presented a waiver that was accepted ND didn't do anything unusual or illegal.