NCAA proposing new college athletics subdivision rooted in direct athlete compensation

[CL82]

Again, I haven't looked into this at all yet. But I thought the 30,000 needed to be set aside for every athlete. Most students who aren't participating in revenue sports don't get a full scholarship. That assumption is correct the end result will be schools will sponsor fewer sports. Instead schools will sponsor the revenue men's sports and then just women's sports to offset them.

I think we suck it up to the greatest extent possible but other schools may well consolidate

 

[Drew]

And how is that working out for you? Just got your doors blown off by a team that will be in the new FBS subdivision and lost your coach to a team that hasn’t done jack in 20 years

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I can promise with 1 million percent certainty that the sportswriters covering this have not even scratched the surface of the implications of this proposal actually being implemented.

College sports will lose fans if it cuts a lot of schools out of competition, and if it loses enough fans, college sports will go into a death spiral of shrinking mass appeal. I don't think that occurs at 60-70 teams competing at the highest level (although it might), but it probably happens as the number of schools approaches 40.

All of these schools committing to massive future expenses when the conferences are on their last big linear contract seems insane. Streaming has dramatically fragmented content, yet the P4 are acting like they will consolidate all the fans into a few dozen schools.

There is a meaningful chance that the top academic schools (Duke, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Rice, Northwestern) simply don't participate, and there will be a lot of pressure on Notre Dame by its alumni to join them if that happens. By Notre Dame alumni, I mean actual alumni, and not just message board bandwagon fans.

The NFL and NBA are going to elevate their minor leagues to compete with college sports. You can write that in stone.

The most difficult to predict impact will be the incentives for athletes to commit years of their youth and adolescence developing their skills for sports when the number of opportunities to play in those sports will be shrinking.

There are no equivalents to college football and college basketball anywhere else in the world. The emergence of those two sports as major revenue producers was the result of a confluence of many factors, some of which are fading or getting undermined by recent developments in college sports.

There are a lot of industries that thought things were never going to change for the worse right up until they did.

 

[Drew]

Notre Dame paid Sam Hartman a milly to play there this year. They’re not opting out of anything

 

[shizzle787]

I can promise with 1 million percent certainty that the sportswriters covering this have not even scratched the surface of the implications of this proposal actually being implemented.

College sports will lose fans if it cuts a lot of schools out of competition, and if it loses enough fans, college sports will go into a death spiral of shrinking mass appeal. I don't think that occurs at 60-70 teams competing at the highest level (although it might), but it probably happens as the number of schools approaches 40.

All of these schools committing to massive future expenses when the conferences are on their last big linear contract seems insane. Streaming has dramatically fragmented content, yet the P4 are acting like they will consolidate all the fans into a few dozen schools.

There is a meaningful chance that the top academic schools (Duke, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Rice, Northwestern) simply don't participate, and there will be a lot of pressure on Notre Dame by its alumni to join them if that happens. By Notre Dame alumni, I mean actual alumni, and not just message board bandwagon fans.

The NFL and NBA are going to elevate their minor leagues to compete with college sports. You can write that in stone.

The most difficult to predict impact will be the incentives for athletes to commit years of their youth and adolescence developing their skills for sports when the number of opportunities to play in those sports will be shrinking.

There are no equivalents to college football and college basketball anywhere else in the world. The emergence of those two sports as major revenue producers was the result of a confluence of many factors, some of which are fading or getting undermined by recent developments in college sports.

There are a lot of industries that thought things were never going to change for the worse right up until they did.

By the time this proposal goes through the NCAA committee, it will be significantly neutered. We will see what happens though.

 

[freescooter]

The problem is that this is all reactionary by the NCAA to try to hold itself together. It is a Band-Aid at best. Further, they should be honest with their motivations. By suggesting that this minimum amount is for all student athletes they put a "noble" gloss over What this really is, namely, the bigger schools pushing the smaller schools out of the market.

The good news is that smaller schools having the ability to "opt out" will take some of the pressure off them to maintain viable athletics. For many small private schools, athletics may go back to what it originally was, an extracurricular activity that has student support at games.

I suspect that isn’t true. A monster has been created by the media, notably ESPN, but CBS too. Just like you are now seeing lots of smaller programs trying to upgrade to FBS in football and a flood of new D1 basketball programs, there will likely be lots of opt in from schools that shouldn’t. One result of all this is that if you aren’t in you aren’t worth watching in the public mind so you almost have to opt in to protect your investment in facilities coaches etc. Schols have made huge investments to upgrade or just to compete. You now need to keep them going.

 

[CL82]

I suspect that isn’t true. A monster has been created by the media, notably ESPN, but CBS too. Just like you are now seeing lots of smaller programs trying to upgrade to FBS in football and a flood of new D1 basketball programs, there will likely be lots of opt in from schools that shouldn’t. One result of all this is that if you aren’t in you aren’t worth watching in the public mind so you almost have to opt in to protect your investment in facilities coaches etc. Schols have made huge investments to upgrade or just to compete. You now need to keep them going.

I understand your point, but I suspect that for many schools, already struggling financially, and also struggling to be able to compete in D1, this may be an exit ramp.

 

[Drew]

 

[shizzle787]

This is about what I thought.

P4 + Big East + AAC + MW.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I can promise with 1 million percent certainty that the sportswriters covering this have not even scratched the surface of the implications of this proposal actually being implemented.

College sports will lose fans if it cuts a lot of schools out of competition, and if it loses enough fans, college sports will go into a death spiral of shrinking mass appeal. I don't think that occurs at 60-70 teams competing at the highest level (although it might), but it probably happens as the number of schools approaches 40.

All of these schools committing to massive future expenses when the conferences are on their last big linear contract seems insane. Streaming has dramatically fragmented content, yet the P4 are acting like they will consolidate all the fans into a few dozen schools.

There is a meaningful chance that the top academic schools (Duke, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Rice, Northwestern) simply don't participate, and there will be a lot of pressure on Notre Dame by its alumni to join them if that happens. By Notre Dame alumni, I mean actual alumni, and not just message board bandwagon fans.

The NFL and NBA are going to elevate their minor leagues to compete with college sports. You can write that in stone.

The most difficult to predict impact will be the incentives for athletes to commit years of their youth and adolescence developing their skills for sports when the number of opportunities to play in those sports will be shrinking.

There are no equivalents to college football and college basketball anywhere else in the world. The emergence of those two sports as major revenue producers was the result of a confluence of many factors, some of which are fading or getting undermined by recent developments in college sports.

There are a lot of industries that thought things were never going to change for the worse right up until they did.

The NFL and NBA won’t just increase their minor league presence it will become necessary for the continuation of the viability st the prep level ,
The demise of college athletics will have a catastrophic effect on society . Largely forgotten is that the ability to play a sport elevated a kid from a humble background to middle class status through education . The play for pay aspect of sports was always the tail wagging the dog of a significant engine of opportunity. Coming from a family with some athletic gifts I have witnessed it first hand .

 

[Fishy]

And you will do that in some kind of Division II.

 

[Fishy]

This looked like a play for the NCAA to get out ahead of any kind of split and somehow remain relevant.

The SEC commissioner’s reaction today makes me more convinced that was the case - looks like it failed. We’ll see what the counter action looks like, I suppose.

Baker did put a price tag on the proposal - $12-15M for a program with 800 athletes.

 

[shizzle787]

This looked like a play for the NCAA to get out ahead of any kind of split and somehow remain relevant.

The SEC commissioner’s reaction today makes me more convinced that was the case - looks like it failed. We’ll see what the counter action looks like, I suppose.

Baker did put a price tag on the proposal - $12-15M for a program with 800 athletes.

I think it is a play to get ahead of pay for play (aka make the rules before Congress/Supreme Court does).

 

[McLovin]

So, say Villanova opts in, obviously with the intention to support hoops. Does this mean their FCS football team suddenly gets to compete at the same level as Alabama and Ohio State (at least on paper)? Lol.

Also, I’m sure all of the P4 schools will opt in. But let’s say Rutgers, who is already broke despite their B1G paycheck, or maybe BC, decides not to opt in. Do they still get to compete in their conferences? Or are they kicked out?

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Most private schools outside of the SEC or BIG will not be able to afford this. Lots of publics too.

 

[Drew]

Most private schools outside of the SEC or BIG will not be able to afford this. Lots of publics too.

Exactly. This isn’t a one time “hey let’s raise $10M to keep playing” sort of deal. It’s every single year. We’re talking about schools with total athletic budgets between $30-$40M, you can’t easily just increase that budget by 25-33% out of left field on a recurring basis. And this isn’t a left pocket right pocket thing, especially for private schools that don’t receive state funds. This is real hard cash that is required to be pumped into your balance sheet to pay these kids. Some of the schools I’ve seen tossed out as being willing to participate in this are laughable