OT: NCAA loses in SCOTUS in a 9-0 decision [merged thread]

[Shenandoah]

Will the STUDENT/athletes be paying their own tuition, going forward, now? I have a real problem with students being paid to play. They are already getting hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of education, up to and including in some cases, a Masters degree, tutors to help them with their classes, and all the workout gear that they can possibly dream of, simply because they can dribble a basketball, or throw a football. Meanwhile, the kid who plays intramural basketball (is that even still a thing?) has to pay their tuition, pay for their own sweats and sneakers, all while, in most cases, trying to fit it in between their classes, studying, and a job.

 

[hoopsfan22]

Will the STUDENT/athletes be paying their own tuition, going forward, now? I have a real problem with students being paid to play. They are already getting hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of education, up to and including in some cases, a Masters degree, tutors to help them with their classes, and all the workout gear that they can possibly dream of, simply because they can dribble a basketball, or throw a football. Meanwhile, the kid who plays intramural basketball (is that even still a thing?) has to pay their tuition, pay for their own sweats and sneakers, all while, in most cases, trying to fit it in between their classes, studying, and a job.

I want to say they should pay their own way, however, I keep coming back to this: if they weren't basketball players but instead math majors on an academic scholarship, how would we feel about them making money from their name, image, or likeness which is something every college kid that's not a student-athlete can already do without consequence? What about college kids on academic scholarships that also have jobs?

 

[visitingcock]

As @Sifaka has already mentioned the scope of the case under question was along very narrow grounds but when you make it through all 45 pages of the "unanimous" decision the SCOTUS essentially took a sledge hammer to EVERY argument the NCAA could possible make for not compensating the players more. The NCAA's amateurism model, anti-trust and charity (tax exempt) status just died when the Court rule that "The NCAA was organized to maximize revenue." Since no further appeal of this decision is possible the NCAA would be accumulating potential additional damages by operating under the old model. Expect a new model that includes full NIL rights for the players with no limits on compensation this fall. I would also expect the additional compensation for players which was the subject of this case such as computers, more sneakers, and possibly increases in stipends and medical benefits for players and dependents shortly. E.g. Dependents of players on full scholarship could receive medical benefits from the schools.

“Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate. And under ordinary principles of antitrust law, it is not evident why college sports should be any different. The NCAA is not above the law,” Kavanaugh wrote.



WORKERS! The decision is full of references to "workers." That is why I say the next rounds of litigation will be (1) minimum wage claims which will end up being a class action; and (2) worker's comp. claims for injuries.

MINIMUM WAGE: Basically there is a 2 or 3 year statute of limitations depending on the state. Every athlete above club level can argue that they were entitled to $7.75 per hour for the past two or three years. (Could be more under state laws.) What about Seattle State? $15.00 per hour since that law has been in effect anyway). Practice time, game time, travel time certainly would require payment. Class and study time would probably not. What about workouts and training? If the players can show that coaches were involved or even gave them a training plan, probably compensable. But then, does the school get to deduct the value of tuition? Maybe not because it is a requirement of the job. Dorms? Meal plans?

WORKERS COMP; This has a one year limitation, So, can a player who was injured in the past year file suit? Probably if he can show permanent injury or he missed "income" while in recovery? say somebody blows out a knee or two. All will say that ruined their hopes of a pro career. Pain compensation? Knees will hurt the rest of their lives (okay, maybe just rainy days) Are schools going to be required to pay for workers comp insurance like other employers?

And workers in a shop have a right to unionize - or reject unions in most Southern states.

 

[CocoHusky]

Probably easier to just get rid of college sports at this point than continuing the charade of pretending these are anything but semi-pro athletes. If a free $200,000 education isn't enough, cool, go play in the D-league.

I'm always triggered negatively by the notion that an athletic scholarship is a "free" education. For those that continue to think it is a free education try earning one. If you are fortunate enough to earn an athletic scholarship, imagine what happens when a student athlete (excluding those attending UNC) don't feel like going to class or practice. Imagine the same of the band member or that talented Chemistry student who might also be on scholarship.

 

[CL82]

That sucks because UConn doesn't have the money to compete with the $EC.

Undoubtedly true, however, UConn’s brand value for woman’s basketball is likely considerably greater than all but a few SEC teams.

 

[CL82]

“Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate. And under ordinary principles of antitrust law, it is not evident why college sports should be any different. The NCAA is not above the law,” Kavanaugh wrote.



WORKERS! The decision is full of references to "workers." That is why I say the next rounds of litigation will be (1) minimum wage claims which will end up being a class action; and (2) worker's comp. claims for injuries.

MINIMUM WAGE: Basically there is a 2 or 3 year statute of limitations depending on the state. Every athlete above club level can argue that they were entitled to $7.75 per hour for the past two or three years. (Could be more under state laws.) What about Seattle State? $15.00 per hour since that law has been in effect anyway). Practice time, game time, travel time certainly would require payment. Class and study time would probably not. What about workouts and training? If the players can show that coaches were involved or even gave them a training plan, probably compensable. But then, does the school get to deduct the value of tuition? Maybe not because it is a requirement of the job. Dorms? Meal plans?

WORKERS COMP; This has a one year limitation, So, can a player who was injured in the past year file suit? Probably if he can show permanent injury or he missed "income" while in recovery? say somebody blows out a knee or two. All will say that ruined their hopes of a pro career. Pain compensation? Knees will hurt the rest of their lives (okay, maybe just rainy days) Are schools going to be required to pay for workers comp insurance like other employers?

And workers in a shop have a right to unionize - or reject unions in most Southern states.

Keep in mind that Kavanaugh’s opinion was not the Court’s decision. If athletes our employees, what about the kids in the drama club? Wouldn’t principal be exactly the same?

 

[CL82]

Funny how hot messes seem to follow him around. Mediocrity Peter Principal personified.

FWIW

 

[HuskyNan]

Enjoyed this part by Kavanaugh:
"To be sure, the NCAA and its member colleges maintain important traditions that have become part of the fabric of America—game days in Tuscaloosa and South Bend; the packed gyms in Storrs and Durham; the women’s and men’s lacrosse championships on Memorial Day weekend; track and field meets in Eugene; the spring softball and baseball World Series in Oklahoma City and Omaha; the list goes on. But those traditions alone cannot justify the NCAA’s decision to build a massive money-raising enterprise on the backs of student athletes who are not fairly compensated."

I believe he went to Yale so the comment isn’t entirely out of left fiel.

 

[Waquoit]

I believe he went to Yale so the comment isn’t entirely out of left fiel.

The men's board thinks that comment was directed to the men's team. LOL!

 

[LoboDays]

The courts decision is more about the SHERMAN ACT and a so called non-profit organization clearly putting profit maximumzation as their number one priority than it is about student athletes. The argument about other scholarship students is moot. There is no National Collegiate Math Association with executives earning millions of dollars obtaining TV contracts worth billions.

The clerk who actually Wrote Kavanaugh’s opinion must be a UCONN grad or fan or that “Storrs” example doesn’t make the final cut.

 

[Waquoit]

The clerk who actually Wrote Kavanaugh’s opinion must be a UCONN grad or fan or that “Storrs” example doesn’t make the final cut.

Maybe not. Perhaps the [] author chose a WBB program and a MBB program and picked the biggest name in their respective sport.

 

[LoboDays]

Perhaps you are correct. But, based on the foundation of court’s opinion, why would they include a sport that loses money?

 

[JJTB]

D2 and D3 included in this? If not, they should be!

 

[oldude]

D2 and D3 included in this? If not, they should be!

Yes, although we can assume that the NIL opportunities in D2 & D3 will not be quite as lucrative.

 

[bmayuc]

Cannot stress enough how crushingly incompetent, unjust, and wrong you have to be to lose 9-0 with this court.

 

[JJTB]

Yes, although we can assume that the NIL opportunities in D2 & D3 will not be quite as lucrative.

Just saw that after I posted. Also, read that an All American can make up to $500 grand from a commercial and up to a million from social media! And to think in the summer of 1970 I couldn't play in a basketball league because I'd be breaking NCAA rules. Man have times changed!

 

[TC22]

Will the STUDENT/athletes be paying their own tuition, going forward, now? I have a real problem with students being paid to play. They are already getting hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of education, up to and including in some cases, a Masters degree, tutors to help them with their classes, and all the workout gear that they can possibly dream of, simply because they can dribble a basketball, or throw a football. Meanwhile, the kid who plays intramural basketball (is that even still a thing?) has to pay their tuition, pay for their own sweats and sneakers, all while, in most cases, trying to fit it in between their classes, studying, and a job.

These STUDENTS don't have the opportunity to go home during spring break and give a basketball clinic and charge $50 per to make some extra money, or autograph a jersey or basketball that somebody bought and charge $10 or even make money selling something THEY MAKE. They are prohibited from doing that. Students on other scholarships are allowed to do it. There's no limit to what they can be given by anybody. If a music store wants to pay a music major at a college a million bucks to do an ad nobody questions it. Some kids need to make money while their name is hot. Not all of them are going to make big bucks when they finish school. I had a daughter who played softball at a small college as a walk-on for one year. It was a full time job and a year long commitment...at a small college, as a walk-on. This is no free education, I assure you.

 

[HopJim]

Not sure who can read Boston Globe articles but today they had great assessment of this court decision.
Paying college athletes is incredibly complicated, and the Supreme Court did not untangle it - The Boston Globe
To summarize:
-Court decision was very specific and did not touch on the issue of payments
-Very complicated issue. "Equitable compensation" can mean different things. Does the QB get more money than the OL, does a Stanford player where the scholarship is worth over $300,000 get more or less in payments than the in state player whose 4 year scholarship was worth $160,000?
-Most schools cannot afford payouts and are likely to form new leagues and organizations if forced to.
-Only 2% or less of all NCAA athletes make the pro level, yet the suggested court rulings appear focused primarily on them. Most students are typically pleased to receive their scholarships and may end up with less benefits if schools reorganize athletics to minimize payouts (i.e. partial scholarships as in baseball, more schools moving to D2 or D3 style leagues, etc.)

 

[augustaTC]

FWIW

Much better!

 

[HuskyNan]

Cannot stress enough how crushingly incompetent, unjust, and wrong you have to be to lose 9-0 with this court.

Nothing Unites Left And Right Like Opposition To The NCAA

Hot Takedown discusses the implications of the Supreme Court’s ruling in NCAA v. Alston and the NBA conference finals.

fivethirtyeight.com

 

[TC22]

Perhaps you are correct. But, based on the foundation of court’s opinion, why would they include a sport that loses money?

Perhaps because even athletes on teams who lose money are also affected by this. The NIL and the fact that athletes can now make money while they are in college affects even them.