NCAA is a joke | Page 2 | The Boneyard

NCAA is a joke

crewbear742 said:
Wait. Wasn't the NCAA considered an authoritative source when UCONN was trying to avoid paying KO the money it agreed to pay him? Should I now consider the NCAA charges against him to be a joke as well? Oh, I see. That's different.

You guys really need to let this UNC thing go. The NCAA didn't do anything about the fake classes at UNC because the NCAA has no authority to judge academic standards. That authority was deliberately withheld from the NCAA because university presidents didn't want the NCAA playing in that sandbox. You may not like it, but there it is.
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Then what the hell is the APR about, if not holding student athletes to a specified academic standard?
 
crewbear742 said:
Wait. Wasn't the NCAA considered an authoritative source when UCONN was trying to avoid paying KO the money it agreed to pay him? Should I now consider the NCAA charges against him to be a joke as well? Oh, I see. That's different.

You guys really need to let this UNC thing go. The NCAA didn't do anything about the fake classes at UNC because the NCAA has no authority to judge academic standards. That authority was deliberately withheld from the NCAA because university presidents didn't want the NCAA playing in that sandbox. You may not like it, but there it is.
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UNC's admitted to it's accrediting organization that the class were not valid. UNC has an affirmative obligation to report grade and progress toward degree to the NCAA as a part of APR. It's failure to do so accurately is either a false statement, which as Kevin Ollie now knows, is sanctioned severely, or failure to monitor, which also sanctioned severely. Playing ineligible players is grounds for forfeiture of games. That would wipe of UNC last natty. The tools were there. They failed to use them.

KO's termination is governed by his contract and the CBA for the teacher's union. If you'd read them you'll realize that your authoritative source argument is irrelevant and thus inapplicable. That's why you are the only person making it.
 
I for one am glad to see the NCAA cracking down on these athletic factories for giving kids an extra $5.00. You let these sport factories get away with that and pretty soon you’ll see other schools working with shoe companies to bribe players to come there. Oh wait...
 
freescooter said:
I for one am glad to see the NCAA cracking down on these athletic factories for giving kids an extra $5.00. You let these sport factories get away with that and pretty soon you’ll see other schools working with shoe companies to bribe players to come there. Oh wait...
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My vision of this is the NCAA riding a BMW bike, chasing student athletes and saying over and over “two dollars. Two dollars!”
 
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UConnNick said:
The bitter irony here is that they're hammering a school that actually takes academics seriously, which is theoretically what the NCAA is supposed to be all about.
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The year Alabama football had a higher APR than Harvard MBB, was the year that proved, if any more proof was needed, how ridiculous APR is as a measurement of academic integrity.
 
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Yeah....the NCAA has a long memory.

FSU embarrassed them when they demanded that the Seminoles change their racist ways and lose the "indian" moniker.

Of course when FSU and the Seminole Tribe of Florida jointly issued a letter blasting the "white guys at the NCAA" for their continuance of the vintage arrogance of a group of white guys telling indians what was good for them, and threatened they would see them in the courts..........the NCAA relented.

Of course, fans are convinced that they never forgot.
 
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RichZ said:
Then what the hell is the APR about, if not holding student athletes to a specified academic standard?
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Yeah, you can't engage in this fiction that the NCAA is all about academics, while you turn around and allow all schools to offer fake classes. That's supposed to be what the NCAA is all about. If they have no authority to regulate that, then the entire mission of the organization, albeit a phony and contrived one in practice, is compromised.
 
UConnNick said:
Yeah, you can't engage in this fiction that the NCAA is all about academics, while you turn around and allow all schools to offer fake classes. That's supposed to be what the NCAA is all about. If they have no authority to regulate that, then the entire mission of the organization, albeit a phony and contrived one in practice, is compromised.
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That sums it up very well.
 
Anything and everything that the NCAA does comes as no surprise to me anymore
Wade and Miller and not having to answer didn't even raise my eyebrows = I was expecting NCAA co-coaches of the year as voted by a committee of NCAA bigwigs citing new and innovated recruitment tactics
 
crewbear742 said:
Wait. Wasn't the NCAA considered an authoritative source when UCONN was trying to avoid paying KO the money it agreed to pay him? Should I now consider the NCAA charges against him to be a joke as well? Oh, I see. That's different.

You guys really need to let this UNC thing go. The NCAA didn't do anything about the fake classes at UNC because the NCAA has no authority to judge academic standards. That authority was deliberately withheld from the NCAA because university presidents didn't want the NCAA playing in that sandbox. You may not like it, but there it is.
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Chances are high that non-athletes at Cal Poly also receive cash stipends for books that end up being spent on other life-sustaining necessities. Just like non-athletes at UNC received fake grades to sustain their ability to graduate.
 
CL82 said:
UNC's admitted to it's accrediting organization that the class were not valid. UNC has an affirmative obligation to report grade and progress toward degree to the NCAA as a part of APR. It's failure to do so accurately is either a false statement, which as Kevin Ollie now knows, is sanctioned severely, or failure to monitor, which also sanctioned severely. Playing ineligible players is grounds for forfeiture of games. That would wipe of UNC last natty. The tools were there. They failed to use them.
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If the NCAA had tried to take that argument into court, the judge would have stapled the NCAAs own bylaws to its lower lip. That's why the NCAA didn't do anything. It would have lost in spectacular fashion. The courses were in the catalog. The courses were available to all students. The courses had a syllabus. Work was assigned and work was completed. They were therefore not "fake" classes as far as the NCAA was concerned. You are asserting that the required course work was insufficient to qualify as a legitimate university course. That judgment is the specific judgment the NCAA is not allowed to make. The NCAA is a target rich environment. You can impeach its behavior any number of ways. But not with this case.

KO's termination is governed by his contract and the CBA for the teacher's union. If you'd read them you'll realize that your authoritative source argument is irrelevant and thus inapplicable. That's why you are the only person making it.
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Right. Because this Board didn't immediately jump up and down over the NCAAs ruling about KO. "False in one. False in all." Unless of course you have a vested interest in ignoring that principle. I can think of some better reasons for why I might be the only one making that argument. Ten million of them, in fact.
 
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crewbear742 said:
If the NCAA had tried to take that argument into court, the judge would have stapled the NCAAs own bylaws to its lower lip. That's why the NCAA didn't do anything. It would have lost in spectacular fashion. The courses were in the catalog. The courses were available to all students. The courses had a syllabus. Work was assigned and work was completed. They were therefore not "fake" classes as far as the NCAA was concerned. You are asserting that the required course work was insufficient to qualify as a legitimate university course. That judgment is the specific judgment the NCAA is not allowed to make. The NCAA is a target rich environment. You can impeach its behavior any number of ways. But not with this case.



Right. Because this Board didn't immediately jump up and down over the NCAAs ruling about KO. "False in one. False in all." Unless of course you have a vested interest in ignoring that principle. I can think of some better reasons for why I might be the only one making that argument. Ten million of them, in fact.
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Wasn't one of the issues involved that course work was being graded by an administrative employee named Crowder instead of professors, or even grad assistants? A similar issue has been made in other cases, most notably at TN, MN and Ohio St., I think, where athletics dept. personnel or contractors were doing the coursework for student-athletes. Either way, the grades are being determined by athletics dept. personnel or by their agents or administrators. If so, then how do you evaluate the APR? Forgetting about the relative academic merits of the courses, if Joe Athlete can skate through all the academic requirements then the whole thing is nothing but a giant scam, which it is in practice. I'd bet that not one UNC athlete ever flunked in one of those classes, but some non-athlete students probably did.

I'll admit the whole APR thing is a useless scam, but if you're going to go through the motions of treating it like it's a real thing, then the athletic dept. or non-professor departmental administrators shouldn't be grading the athletes' term papers. That goes way beyond arguing the merits of whether or not they're academically fake courses. That's complete fraud. If the NCAA has no authority to do anything about that, then they might as well close up shop and quit pretending they administer anything.

BTW, just because the NCAA may lose a court case is no reason for them to withdraw from an investigation. If that's all it takes to get them off any particular school's back, then the organization has no basis for its own existence.
 
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crewbear742 said:
If the NCAA had tried to take that argument into court, the judge would have stapled the NCAAs own bylaws to its lower lip. That's why the NCAA didn't do anything. It would have lost in spectacular fashion. The courses were in the catalog. The courses were available to all students. The courses had a syllabus. Work was assigned and work was completed. They were therefore not "fake" classes as far as the NCAA was concerned. You are asserting that the required course work was insufficient to qualify as a legitimate university course. That judgment is the specific judgment the NCAA is not allowed to make. The NCAA is a target rich environment. You can impeach its behavior any number of ways. But not with this case.
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It would never had gone court. In order to prevail with NCAA UNC said these are the courses we offered we are standing by them. In order to prevail with it's accrediting agency UNC said these course are not up to our standards; they were offered by rogue staff we've corrected the situation. Those two positions can't exist in the same the universe. UNC wouldn't have taken the NCAA to court because they would have to make admissions on the record that would have cost them their accreditation.
crewbear742 said:
Right. Because this Board didn't immediately jump up and down over the NCAAs ruling about KO. "False in one. False in all." Unless of course you have a vested interest in ignoring that principle. I can think of some better reasons for why I might be the only one making that argument. Ten million of them, in fact.
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Because KO's case will be decided by what this board thinks? Riiiight. Again, you may want to read the governing documents if you want to discuss this seriously.
 
UConnNick said:
Wasn't one of the issues involved that course work was being graded by an administrative employee named Crowder instead of professors, or even grad assistants? A similar issue has been made in other cases, most notably at TN, MN and Ohio St., I think, where athletics dept. personnel or contractors were doing the coursework for student-athletes. Either way, the grades are being determined by athletics dept. personnel or by their agents or administrators. If so, then how do you evaluate the APR? Forgetting about the relative academic merits of the courses, if Joe Athlete can skate through all the academic requirements then the whole thing is nothing but a giant scam, which it is in practice. I'd bet that not one UNC athlete ever flunked in one of those classes, but some non-athlete students probably did.

I'll admit the whole APR thing is a useless scam, but if you're going to go through the motions of treating it like it's a real thing, then the athletic dept. or non-professor departmental administrators shouldn't be grading the athletes' term papers. That goes way beyond arguing the merits of whether or not they're academically fake courses. That's complete fraud. If the NCAA has no authority to do anything about that, then they might as well close up shop and quit pretending they administer anything.

BTW, just because the NCAA may lose a court case is no reason for them to withdraw from an investigation. If that's all it takes to get them off any particular school's back, then the organization has no basis for its own existence.
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Crewbear is sort of correct in this. The NCAA is not authorized to make determinations of whether a course is rigorous enough to be considered legitimate. That responsibility rests ultimately with the governing body of the school. And let’s be honest. A class that is acceptable at Louisville might not past muster at Yale. The NCAA can’t decide a class is “fake” or “real”. And once the UNC Board of Trustees agreed that certain classes were to receive credit regardless of their, let’s say academic rigor, the NCAA had no recourse. If the guy down the street puts an addition on his house without getting permits you can complain to the building department or maybe zoning. If they say it’s ok not much you can do. They have jurisdiction. Doesn’t matter what the Park & rec board says though. In the UNC case the NCAA is the park and rec board. UNC is the building dept.

It was sleazy and wrong but the NCAA had zero authority to say a class is or is not legitimate. And really they can’t hsve that authority.
 
djct1999 said:
Very true, although those two times each year Roy cries after a loss for the love of his players gets me every time. Reminds me of when OJ vowed to help catch the killer. Very touching.
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Guessing the Boneyard has a problem with Roy
 
CL82 said:
It would never had gone court. In order to prevail with NCAA UNC said these are the courses we offered we are standing by them. In order to prevail with it's accrediting agency UNC said these course are not up to our standards; they were offered by rogue staff we've corrected the situation. Those two positions can't exist in the same the universe. UNC wouldn't have taken the NCAA to court because they would have to make admissions on the record that would have cost them their accreditation.
Because KO's case will be decided by what this board thinks? Riiiight. Again, you may want to read the governing documents if you want to discuss this seriously.
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UNC is already standing behind those courses. Is it altering transcripts? Is it revoking degrees? That case would have went to court just as fast as UNCs lawyers could get it there.

And the issue for this thread is the rank hypocrisy displayed on this board towards the NCAA depending upon whose ox is being gored. If the NCAA is not credible in its dealings with UNC, then the NCAA is not credible in its dealings with KO. You can't have it both ways.
 
The NCAA is not about academics as someone posted...it is about college athletics.

And thus the focus and authority are limited.

The accreditation agencies do not review athlete eligibility...and the NCAA does not review a college's academic course content.
 
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billybud said:
The NCAA is not about academics as someone posted...it is about college athletics.

And thus the focus and authority are limited.

The accreditation agencies do not review athlete eligibility...and the NCAA does not review a college's academic course content.
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Yet a player can post a 3.0 on a crap curriculum and the NCAA don’t care whether they attended the course or not. What a country.
 
jibsey said:
Yet a player can post a 3.0 on a crap curriculum and the NCAA don’t care whether they attended the course or not. What a country.
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As long as non athlete students could do the same...no foul.

I do remember the Creighton ex player who read on the second grade level entering the college and sued the college for failing to educate him while using him for basketball.
 
UConnNick said:
Yeah, you can't engage in this fiction that the NCAA is all about academics, while you turn around and allow all schools to offer fake classes. That's supposed to be what the NCAA is all about. If they have no authority to regulate that, then the entire mission of the organization, albeit a phony and contrived one in practice, is compromised.
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The University presidents would never give an athletic organization like the NCAA the authority to disapprove a curriculum developed by a tenured academic.

NCAA: Hey, Mr University President. We the NCAA don't think your classes are up to snuff.

Mr President: Hey Mr Owl. How many different ways can I say "Intercourse you" to the NCAA?

Mr Owl: I don't know. Let's find out! One ... Tw-hoo ... Three ... Four ... Five ... Six ...

...

137 ... 138 ...139 ...
 
Darren Davis went Iowa State for four years....leading rusher..

Was illiterate when he left with a Wonderlic score of 4.
 
freescooter said:
Crewbear is sort of correct in this. The NCAA is not authorized to make determinations of whether a course is rigorous enough to be considered legitimate. That responsibility rests ultimately with the governing body of the school. And let’s be honest. A class that is acceptable at Louisville might not past muster at Yale. The NCAA can’t decide a class is “fake” or “real”. And once the UNC Board of Trustees agreed that certain classes were to receive credit regardless of their, let’s say academic rigor, the NCAA had no recourse. If the guy down the street puts an addition on his house without getting permits you can complain to the building department or maybe zoning. If they say it’s ok not much you can do. They have jurisdiction. Doesn’t matter what the Park & rec board says though. In the UNC case the NCAA is the park and rec board. UNC is the building dept.

It was sleazy and wrong but the NCAA had zero authority to say a class is or is not legitimate. And really they can’t hsve that authority.
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That wasn't the point I'm making. Forget about whether these are the worst gut courses in academic history. It's about letting non-professors grade the only term paper submitted, which counts for the entire grade, so administrators are essentially giving out the grades. I don't care whether the course material constitutes a valid academic exercise or not. There are many that don't, but allowing administrators to grade entire courses is blatant fraud, which directly affects the eligibility of student-athletes. At a bare minimum, the NCAA should at least require their 1,100+ member schools to have professors giving out the grades, even if that's a total sham at some schools.
 
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