NBC Sports Ratings

[UConnDan97]

going from 10 to 12 was not a football move. Memphis and Temple did not bring enough value to justify it from a football perspective. It was an act to rebuild the basketball conference with schools that played football.

If we stay in the conference, I'm basically indifferent. But I think the additions were meant to keep the football and hoops schools together if UConn and/or LV left.

I think without question that their respective basketball prowess helped to put them in the league, no doubt (although I think Temple is a good solid football team too). But I'm also wondering how much it factored in that they were in big cities rather than not. In other words, a team like ECU with 50,000 butts in the seats and a cult following in their area does not cut the mustard in terms of "potential market growth". They are what they are. I'm wondering how much the cities of Philadelphia and Memphis affected the acquisitions.

I'm not saying that this line of thinking will work, but it seems to me that they are going to try to sit down at the tv negotiating table with the intent of selling new market growth rather than existing Big East market share.

 

[whaler11]

. I guess what has perplexed me are your other posts that seem to take a shot at those that are hoping the new league contract negotiations can bring something good, or at least something better than what we have now. That's what this NBC thread is about, I think.

No need to be perplexed. They are shots at people who have deluded themselves into the fantasy that NBC Sports is going to save the Big East. It's the television equivalent of the Mega Millions threads where people are promising half their winnings to the athletic department.

 

[whaler11]

Speaking for myself as a UConn fan adding the content you listed will make them a major network in my household. I don't know how many other households this will be true for but that content alone would make me watch that network about 1000% more than I currently do. It's far from scientific but I'd wager that the majority of UConn fans would also be tuning in a great deal more than they do now as well. I can't quantify that but it certainly counts for something.

Sure, I'll watch it to. Clearly it doesn't create enough households for any other major league to invite UConn. That seems to the reality that some posters can't wrap their heads around.

If just airing games that interested Connecticut made a network 'major', then I'd have a letter from DirecTV telling me that CPTV is now in the sports tier.

 

[whaler11]

but it seems to me that they are going to try to sit down at the tv negotiating table with the intent of selling new market growth rather than existing Big East market share.

Ok. So why would you want to tie your league to one of the lowest rated networks on cable whose ratings have sunk 29% in key demos yoy, and has shown that they can't market the product that they already have.

A third rate network that draws fewer viewers than infomercials is going to change the viewing habits of Philadelphia and Memphis. They can't get anyone to watch the NHL. How do they get anyone to watch Memphis and Temple.

 

[UConnDan97]

Ok. So why would you want to tie your league to one of the lowest rated networks on cable whose ratings have sunk 29% in key demos yoy, and has shown that they can't market the product that they already have.

A third rate network that draws fewer viewers than infomercials is going to change the viewing habits of Philadelphia and Memphis. They can't get anyone to watch the NHL. How do they get anyone to watch Memphis and Temple.

I'm a hockey fan, so don't take this the wrong way, but saying that they won't watch college football because they don't watch the NHL is like saying "they won't eat rice cakes, so why would they eat cakes?" I'm not saying the NBE is an extremely tasty cake, but I'm guessing that many of the NBE college football games would draw more than a typical NHL game (my opinion, I don't have figures to back that yet), and certainly Big East basketball would draw a great deal more than the NHL. Another poster had said it best when they talked about how thrilled SNY was about the ratings boost when they included UConn and Rutgers football / "Power Hour" coverage.

 

[whaler11]

Read this article and get some ideas:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/09/01/big-12-should-snap-up-the-university-of-houston/

So in the city of Houston there was one game where Houston outdrew the average Big 12 game - and it was against a Big 12 team. I'm supposed to be impressed?

Are the people that run the Big 12 stupid? They have had zero interest in the University of Houston - I'm sure that can be explained away, but when they were ignoring Houston they were recruiting West Virginia - which isn't exactly a top 10 television market.

 

[whaler11]

I'm a hockey fan, so don't take this the wrong way, but saying that they won't watch college football because they don't watch the NHL is like saying "they won't eat rice cakes, so why would they eat cakes?" I'm not saying the NBE is an extremely tasty cake, but I'm guessing that many of the NBE college football games would draw more than a typical NHL game (my opinion, I don't have figures to back that yet), and certainly Big East basketball would draw a great deal more than the NHL. Another poster had said it best when they talked about how thrilled SNY was about the ratings boost when they included UConn and Rutgers football / "Power Hour" coverage.

I'm not a hockey fan. I'm not arguing that the NHL is valuable. The NHL is clearly a better television property than the Big East going forward. SNY is a local network with terrible ratings - the fact that UConn or Rutgers outdraws Beer Money hardly means that you can build a national network out of Providence/SMU games.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I'm not a hockey fan. I'm not arguing that the NHL is valuable. The NHL is clearly a better television property than the Big East going forward.

NHL is a better television draw than Big East Basketball?

Who's watching the Columbus Blue Jackets vs Nashville Predators over UConn vs. Louisville hoops?

 

[whaler11]

NHL is a better television draw than Big East Basketball?

Who's watching the Columbus Blue Jackets vs Nashville Predators over UConn vs. Louisville hoops?

Or one could compare Detroit and New York against Providence and Seton Hall.

NBC Sports averages about 333k for the NHL broadcasts. I do agree that UConn, Louisville and a few other schools in the league would outdraw that number. NBC Sports drew 18,000 viewers for an Air Force/SDSU basketball game earlier this season. The vast majority of the the future Big East basketball schedule looks a lot more like SDSU/ than it does UConn/Louisville.

If you put Big East games on NBC Sports it will outdraw most of the crap they show (They only average 68k viewers - it's not like you need more than a test pattern), but the lowest rated show on ESPN is daytime Baseball Tonight and they still get 300k viewers. The issue becomes that if you put the Big East on NBCS you are putting the league to sleep.

To put it simply the viewers you'd get for Big East games on NBCS would be well below the midpoint of what the BE gets on ESPN versus what NBCS gets now.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Or one could compare Detroit and New York against Providence and Seton Hall.

I mainly said that as a joke because when talking about the BE you always list the least appealing matchups.

I do agree with your points about the league losing exposure on NBC Sports - especially on the coverage the games and teams would receive on SportsCenter if we weren't an ESPN property.

I don't believe NBC Sports is saving the Big East. We are in a pretty awful position. I'm just trying to be cautiously optimistic (and in my opinion very realistic - I haven't said anything outlandish).

I think we'll get a fair tv contract - certainly a raise from what we have now, but also well below the other BCS conferences. Just have to hope for the best.

Same hand - don't fault you for having a negative outlook either. It see that side too.

 

[UConnDan97]

I'm not arguing that the NHL is valuable. The NHL is clearly a better television property than the Big East going forward.

I know it's just my opinion, but do you think for the audience that the NBE is trying to grow in (i.e., Memphis, Orlando, Houston, Dallas, San Diego) that the NHL is really a better television property than the Big East?? You can probably make that argument about Philly, because I'm pretty sure more people care about the Flyers than they do about Temple football, but in the other aforementioned cities?? No way you can convince me of that. I think that the people in those cities are MUCH more likely to watch a local college football team than the Lightning, etc. And the best part is; NBC doesn't have to choose one or the other. They can have both.

Don't get me wrong; do I believe that NBC will be our savior? I have no freakin' clue. But I'm not convinced of your stance that the NHL is a better tv acquisition than the combined football / basketball of a major conference in college sports.....even if it is perceived to be the sixth major conference in football...

 

[whaler11]

I know it's just my opinion, but do you think for the audience that the NBE is trying to grow in (i.e., Memphis, Orlando, Houston, Dallas, San Diego) that the NHL is really a better television property than the Big East?? You can probably make that argument about Philly, because I'm pretty sure more people care about the Flyers than they do about Temple football, but in the other aforementioned cities?? No way you can convince me of that. I think that the people in those cities are MUCH more likely to watch a local college football team than the Lightning, etc. And the best part is; NBC doesn't have to choose one or the other. They can have both.

Don't get me wrong; do I believe that NBC will be our savior? I have no freakin' clue. But I'm not convinced of your stance that the NHL is a better tv acquisition than the combined football / basketball of a major conference in college sports.....even if it is perceived to be the sixth major conference in football...

I guess that is our 'disagreement'. This isn't a major conference by any stretch of the imagination. On a national scope the only things that the new Big East has to sell is Boise football and UConn/Louisville basketball. Look at a program like Marquette. Great history and very good teams most years. They are the sixth most valuable property in Wisconsin.... Sixth best in Wisconsin.

The NHL is not popular. Part of the reason no one watches it on TV is because they put their games on a network no one watches. It's a nice dream that the Big East would elevate NBCS - the reality is that NBCS would sink the Big East. Frank the Tank wrote a great article earlier this week - you won't get the casual fans you need on some 3rd tier cable network.

Let's not pretend that the other basketball programs have any value outside of the Northeast. Do you watch Oregon and UCLA at 11 at night? Do you think anyone on the West Coast is going to watch Providence and Villanova at 4 in the afternoon?

UConn and Louisville would set themselves on fire to get out of this league - would you pay big dollars for a property where two of the three most valuable teams would do anything to leave?

 

[whaler11]

I mainly said that as a joke because when talking about the BE you always list the least appealing matchups.

I do agree with your points about the league losing exposure on NBC Sports - especially on the coverage the games and teams would receive on SportsCenter if we weren't an ESPN property.

I don't believe NBC Sports is saving the Big East. We are in a pretty awful position. I'm just trying to be cautiously optimistic (and in my opinion very realistic - I haven't said anything outlandish).

I think we'll get a fair tv contract - certainly a raise from what we have now, but also well below the other BCS conferences. Just have to hope for the best.

Same hand - don't fault you for having a negative outlook either. It see that side too.

I'd love for it to be true too. The problem is I can multiply numbers together. When you multiply 12 teams times 10 million times 10 years, the answer is expressed in Billions - and the idea that someone is going to pay Billions for what the Big East has requires one to suspend reality.

When the potential savior just spent Billions on something that almost no one watches, it seems hard to believe they are going to do it twice.

 

[UConnDan97]

"whaler11, post: 222479, member: 676"] Let's not pretend that the other basketball programs have any value outside of the Northeast. Do you watch Oregon and UCLA at 11 at night? Do you think anyone on the West Coast is going to watch Providence and Villanova at 4 in the afternoon?

I think this is where I'm losing you. It's not about whether anyone on the west coast wants to see the Friars versus Nova at 4pm. It's about whether people in Providence and Philly will see it at 7pm. And whether people in Memphis and DC will watch the tigers against Georgetown at 9pm. And whether people in Dallas and Houston will watch SMU versus Houston on a Thursday night game in football (or Saturday, not opposite the Longhorns). That is what I believe the league is trying to sell; college products for big cities. In my opinion, it is exactly why the top brass expanded the way it did for the NBE. They are trying to capture casual fans in big population centers in order to generate new streams of revenue.

Will it work? I don't know. But let's not make it out to be worthless programming, in an era where every tv network is fighting for sports relevance (now Murdoch is in the game too) and people don't want to be stuck showing "Bassmasters" all day...

 

[FromTheInside]

I don't have the time to go through all of your negative BE posts, but you are DEAD wrong on Houston and San Diego State as far as TV ratings.

Houston outdraws B12 schools for TV ratings where they are right now in the CUSA. Simply stating the fact the Houston has no draw in their own city just shows one of the many ignorant statements you have made. Their TV ratings will only improve in the BE. Houston could dominate the Houston media market.

Read this article and get some ideas:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/09/01/big-12-should-snap-up-the-university-of-houston/


Same thing can be said for SDSU. They outdrew all the PAC-12 schools in San Diego. They got HUGE upside as far as media penetration in that market.

I realize some people will always take the glass half empty approach. However, it could be beyond stupid to think all those former CUSA/MWC schools would stay the same once they get access to better TV coverage and more money for their sports programs. If you just look at USF, Cincy and UL on how far they have came since they joined the BE, you could easily see potential in all the new comers. In addition, many schools currently are in BCS conferences were at lower conferences at one point or another. As for that school in Idaho you made fun of, they are one of the better TV draws in the college football.

The data is pretty flawed. The Tech game was against a team that has a strong fan base in Houston (lots of oil & gas cross-over between Lubbock/Tech/Houston). The UTEP game was a Friday night name w/ absolutely zero football competition. If you were a dude and you couldn't/didn't go out, you were probably watching that game. And, the East Carolina game was the C-USA Championship Game. Comparing those 3 slanted selections to all Big XII games is pretty poor analysis on Kristi's part (the girl who wrote that, who also has a history of writing/promoting based on poor analysis). Her Big XII ESPN ratings numbers include all games on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, and ESPN GamePlan. Not even remotely a fair comparison.

 

[Dann]

The data is pretty flawed. The Tech game was against a team that has a strong fan base in Houston (lots of oil & gas cross-over between Lubbock/Tech/Houston). The UTEP game was a Friday night name w/ absolutely zero football competition. If you were a dude and you couldn't/didn't go out, you were probably watching that game. And, the East Carolina game was the C-USA Championship Game. Comparing those 3 slanted selections to all Big XII games is pretty poor analysis on Kristi's part (the girl who wrote that, who also has a history of writing/promoting based on poor analysis). Her Big XII ESPN ratings numbers include all games on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, and ESPN GamePlan. Not even remotely a fair comparison.

what are your big 5 conf's predictions as to what they will look like after 2015. name the 5 and there members...

 

[CL82]

Can we stop the fast food comparisons to tv network decisions?

Maybe. It does illustrate a point about supply and demand. The pot shots at the Big East's product don't recognize that the better programming is tied up. If a network, NBC Sports or FOX's new effort, needs product, we're pretty much the only game in town. (Pun intended) It doesn't matter that were not the SEC or the Big 10. Having something wrap commercials around has value. If ESPN decides that it doesn't want to give these guys a chance to get their legs under them, they might well pay a premium over our nominal value to keep us in the fold. Does that mean "billions", I'd guess not but having programming through all time zones is valuable. We'll all see how much come the fall.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

I do not want to waste more time debating the potentials of new BE schools because some people here obviously already made up their minds about those schools. One thing people needs to keep in mind is many current BCS schools came from smaller conferences at one time or another. VTECH was once in the Metro. Arizona and Arizona State were once WAC members. Houston and SMU were in the same conference as Texas.

BE membership is already making a difference at some schools.

City of Memphis will upgrade the Liberty Bowl: http://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/2012/apr/4/council-approves-liberty-bowl-upgrade-financing/
Boist St already got plans to increase their football stadium to 55K.
Houston got brand new football and basketball facilities. Their $100M+ football stadium will be open soon plus they got access to Houston Texan's stadium 2 miles from their campus.
SMU is in the middle of hiring a basketball coach. I heard they are willing to pay up to $3M per year.

Things won't stay the same for these schools. I guess the new TV deal will make or break this conference. If the new deal is on par with other BCS conferences, I think we will be ok. If the new deal sucks, then all the doom and gloom people here can rejoice and say I told you so.

 

[Marty Jackson]

I don't have the time to go through all of your negative BE posts, but you are DEAD wrong on Houston and San Diego State as far as TV ratings.

Houston outdraws B12 schools for TV ratings where they are right now in the CUSA. Simply stating the fact the Houston has no draw in their own city just shows one of the many ignorant statements you have made. Their TV ratings will only improve in the BE. Houston could dominate the Houston media market.

Read this article and get some ideas:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/09/01/big-12-should-snap-up-the-university-of-houston/


Same thing can be said for SDSU. They outdrew all the PAC-12 schools in San Diego. They got HUGE upside as far as media penetration in that market.

I realize some people will always take the glass half empty approach. However, it could be beyond stupid to think all those former CUSA/MWC schools would stay the same once they get access to better TV coverage and more money for their sports programs. If you just look at USF, Cincy and UL on how far they have came since they joined the BE, you could easily see potential in all the new comers. In addition, many schools currently are in BCS conferences were at lower conferences at one point or another. As for that school in Idaho you made fun of, they are one of the better TV draws in the college football.

you are dead on... Ive said before, uofl was a lowly nonBCS school before coming to BE. Since then, the FB side has improved, they're still a huge BB program, and their brand has grown significantly. Now they are Big12 worthy, and nobody thinks that's due in part to being in the BE.
If that bounce can happen with UofL, why not with Houston or SDSU or even UCF?

 

[gioff23]

I'm not a media expert and I have no idea if NBCS is a viable option, but I think it is hard to argue that having options away from ESPN can hurt. If we have to go hat in hand to Bristol, we are dead. If we can play off ESPN, NBC, and Fox off one another, that should allow us to extract maximum value from a negotitation. Our key objective is to drive revenues; their key objective is to find eyeballs and ads to pay for the same.

And I've never understood the eyeballs thing. If eyeballs were the driver, which network would claim that they HAD to have the media hotbeds of Tuscaloosa, Starkville, Baton Rouge, Lexington, Columbia, Fayetville, and Tennessee markets? If you have product, you will gain eyeballs.

And I am lost on the NHL comparison - the NHL has been on NBC, Fox, ESPN, Versus, and who knows what else. No matter where they go, NO ONE follows. The NHL sold their soul 2 decades ago when they moved their teams out of towns that were passionate about the sport and in to towns where there are eyeballs. It is a damaged product - it could be on ESPN or ABC at 8 pm following a Presidential state of the union, and folks would not watch. Blame NBCS for overpaying for content, but please do not argue if only the NHL were on a better network all would follow.

 

[Marty Jackson]

reducing BE basketball to Uconn and Louisville? Georgetown, Villanova, ND, Marquette, and Cincy might differ...