NBA redrafts from the Ringer (good Ray discussion) | Page 2 | The Boneyard

NBA redrafts from the Ringer (good Ray discussion)

Scoe said:
checked his basketball reference page and he played 4 games in 2000-01 season, 14 in 2001-02, 29 in 2002-03, missed the season in 2003-04, 67 games 2004-05, 2005-06 21 games, then 65 games in 06-07. Your acting like he played a bunch of games for Orlando when in fact he didn’t unfortunately.
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I'm not "acting" like anything. I said - accurately - that Hill played 200 games for the Magic..
 
Scoe said:
Ray is greater because he was healthier and he was an all star for more years and won a ring as an all star and 1 as a role player. To be the greatest health is a factor so you do need to be lucky too.

To Hills credit he came back from those injuries to still be a very good role player. He still made into the Hall of fame, I don’t understand why there is this debate about Ray and Hill they both got into Springfield together. If you ask me who was greater without hesitation I’m gonna say Ray and sure the durability is a huge factor.
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Quick basketballreference.com breakdown

Ray Allen:
10x all star (3 w/Bucks, 4 w/Sonics, 3 w/Celtics)

Grant Hill:
7x all star (5 w/Pistons and 2 w/Magic)

Looks like Hill made an all star team in Orlando the season he only played 4 games, must have been voted in as a starter... Shouldn't count imo.

The interesting take away for me is that Grant Hill made an ASG his first four seasons and six of his first seven. If he hadn't gotten hurt his story would be much different.


Edit: A recent list of NBA players to make a ASG during their rookie year. Not bad company for Grant Hill
Blake Griffin (2011)
Yao (2003)
Tim Duncan (1998)
Grant Hill (1995)
Shaq (1993)
Mutombo (1992)
David Robinson (1990)
Ewing (1986)
Olajuwon (1985)
MJ (1984)
 
UofCT2009 said:
Quick basketballreference.com breakdown

Ray Allen:
10x all star (3 w/Bucks, 4 w/Sonics, 3 w/Celtics)

Grant Hill:
7x all star (5 w/Pistons and 2 w/Magic)

Looks like Hill made an all star team in Orlando the season he only played 4 games, must have been voted in as a starter... Shouldn't count imo.

The interesting take away for me is that Grant Hill made an ASG his first four seasons and six of his first seven. If he hadn't gotten hurt his story would be much different.


Edit: A recent list of NBA players to make a ASG during their rookie year. Not bad company for Grant Hill
Blake Griffin (2011)
Yao (2003)
Tim Duncan (1998)
Grant Hill (1995)
Shaq (1993)
Mutombo (1992)
David Robinson (1990)
Ewing (1986)
Olajuwon (1985)
MJ (1984)
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Sucks he got hurt sure “would’ve” had a better career that’s the point, better is based off what you did not what you “could’ve” done.
Whatever their both in the Hall of game. I think their hall of fame class is very underrated btw, imagine a prime Ray, Hill, J Kidd, mvp form Nash as well as Mo Cheeks and Dino Raja.
 
CallMeBruce said:
I'm not "acting" like anything. I said - accurately - that Hill played 200 games for the Magic..
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Right, while you were wondering if I was making a joke which it was, I came across with the impression that you were offended as if you know him personally.
 
Scoe said:
Right, while you were wondering if I was making a joke which it was, I came across with the impression that you were offended as if you know him personally.
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You should stop trying to make inferences.
 
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Mr. French said:
I also watched the next couple of those pods, the 2001 draft was very interesting as well. But 1996 was always my favorite draft. Excited for some more re-drafts, wonder where Kemba goes in 2011? Definitely higher than Brandon Knight, suckers!
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How the hell was Knight selected over Kemba just mind boggling at the time it was mind boggling. I can't believe how much of a bust Derrick Williams turned into he was a monster in the 2011 tourney and committed bloody murder on Duke, one of the more overshadowed moments was Okwandu guarding him on the final possession and denying him to drive. I forgot Klay Thompson and Jimmy Butler were in that draft class damn thats a solid top 5. I say top 5 goes as follows:

1. Kawhi Cleveland (multiple championships for 2 different franchises, quitting on SA will be used against him but winning a title there at least then winning one with the Raptors, and making the Clippers a title contender helps solidify his case getting drafted number 1)
2. Klay Minnesota (a super 3 and D guy on a super team)
3. Kyrie Utah (You can call him a diva and left Boston on a sour note and injured a lot but he was a very good number 2 to Lebron in the 3-1 comeback, and has put up monster stats)
4. Kemba Cleveland (I think him getting an awful Hornets team to the playoffs and being a model teammate should earn him some points, never complaining about not having enough help or demanding to be traded, or sitting himself out of games.)
5. Jimmy Butler Toronto( could flip flop between him and Kemba he has been somewhat of a malcontent on different teams)
 
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Scoe said:
How the hell was Knight selected over Kemba just mind boggling at the time it was mind boggling. I can't believe how much of a bust Derrick Williams turned into he was a monster in the 2011 tourney and committed bloody murder on Duke, one of the more overshadowed moments was Okwandu guarding him on the final possession and denying him to drive. I forgot Klay Thompson and Jimmy Butler were in that draft class damn thats a solid top 4. I say top 5 goes as follows:

1. Kawhi (multiple championships for 2 different franchises, quitting on SA will be used against him but winning a title there at least then winning one with the Raptors, and making the Clippers a title contender helps solidify his case getting drafted number 1)
2. Klay (a super 3 and D guy on a super team)
3. Kyrie (You can call him a diva and left Boston on a sour note and injured a lot but he was a very good number 2 to Lebron in the 3-1 comeback, and has put up monster stats)
4. I say Kemba (I think him getting an awful Hornets team to the playoffs and being a model teammate should earn him some points, never complaining about not having enough help or demanding to be traded, or sitting himself out of games.)
5. Jimmy Butler ( could flip flop between him and Kemba he has been somewhat of a malcontent on different teams)
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this seems accurate
 


Heres the 2002 redraft, what an awful draft that was. If it were today there would be so much talk about teams clearing cap space and tanking for Lebron the following year (Melo/Wade as constellation prizes).
 
I have problems with Kyrie over Kemba. If I started a new franchise today, I’d pick Kemba. Kyrie is too much trouble.
 
Hoophound said:
I have problems with Kyrie over Kemba. If I started a new franchise today, I’d pick Kemba. Kyrie is too much trouble.
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I didnt wanna put Kyrie over Kemba but I did because Kyrie has the championship, then after I posted now I'm kind of scratching my head about it, on a contender I take Kyrie if hes a 2, Kemba if I'm rebuilding a team. Its kind of like an Iverson vs Nash conversation, can't wait till they discuss the 2011 draft, Simmons I'm sure will be cursing out Kyrie. Its like you take Kyrie without thinking then your scratching your head saying I rather have Kemba.
 
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Scoe said:
I didnt wanna put Kyrie over Kemba but I did because Kyrie has the championship, then after I posted now I'm kind of scratching my head about it, on a contender I take Kyrie if hes a 2, Kemba if I'm rebuilding a team. Its kind of like an Iverson vs Nash conversation, can't wait till they discuss the 2011 draft, Simmons I'm sure will be cursing out Kyrie. Its like you take Kyrie without thinking then your scratching your head saying I rather have Kemba.
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It's because Kyrie is objectively better. Kemba is the better player to root for, but anyone taking Kemba over him in a finals series is lying.
 
Huskyforlife said:
It's because Kyrie is objectively better. Kemba is the better player to root for, but anyone taking Kemba over him in a finals series is lying.
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Would you rather have Kemba drafted 4th on a Cavs team with Kawhi and be a playoff team in the East before Lebron is even there, or go 3rd to the Jazz still a good situation btw much better then Charlotte for sure. Could you see Kyrie wanting to play in Utah lol.
 
Scoe said:
Would you rather have Kemba drafted 4th on a Cavs team with Kawhi and be a playoff team in the East before Lebron is even there, or go 3rd to the Jazz still a good situation btw much better then Charlotte for sure. Could you see Kyrie wanting to play in Utah lol.
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Kemba and Kyrie would've been a fun backcourt until Lebron got there. I think kyrie was ending up in Brooklyn anyways.
 
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Kemba gets you something Kyrie doesn’t. The rest of the team loves Kemba, they trust him and they respect him. Kemba allows for other people to take a leading role and develop into much better players. It is hard to place a value on that with wins and losses, but I’m pretty sure it results in many wins and better player development. It’s an intangible in a game full of intangibles.
 
Now I really wanna hear about what will be said about Ben and Emeka in the 2004 redraft. I could see Gordon in the top 5-10 range, his performance against the Celtics in the playoffs will stand out. Emeka I see sneaking into the top 10-15 range.

I would say 1-2 would go Dwight Howard then Iguodala then totally up for grabs after that.
 
 
yes thanks scoe! Definitely looking forward to listening to this - drafts and re-drafts are my thang.
 
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