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Mr. French

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Warriors fans deserve to be a little jerky, they’ve been some of the best fans in the sport for 30 years, with mostly crap teams, IMO.
 
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Because competition and the competitive spirit is what drives sports. And while both moves:

Taking three stars from different teams and forming a new super-team (Bron)

Joining a dynastic power that just won 73 games with 3 HOFer and a unanimous MVP, who just came back from being down 3-1 on you in conference finals

May be on the same spectrum of actions that betray that competitive spirit, there is substantial distance between them on that spectrum.
So you can't and won't evaluate KD's basketball playing ability fairly because of an off the court decision that conflicts with your definition of competition. I wish KD was still on OKC b/c that would have made for more competitive basketball, yet at the same time I can understand an athlete wanting to leave at best contentious situation for the best situation in the sport. All kinds of athletes in various sports choose the best situation to maximize their skills and earnings, for me leaving a team for a competitor isn't grounds for blacklisting a guy. I can still enjoy watching KD play and appreciate him.

But we all have our hot buttons, I rooted against straight from high school NBA players and very few ever broke through that dislike - I wanted them all proven not ready. But if that happened (i.e. Kobe choking early, Kendrick P, Gerald Greene) or they were so great it was obviously the right move (LeBron, KG) then I discarded my personal bias. In this case as great as he is, I think Russ' hero ball has proven that Durant had to get out of there. Assuming that he simply chose the best situation and the fact that it was the team that just beat him was merely happenstance. The fact that the team was already too good is what makes it problematic

But its been bad for basketball. The Warriors are literally worse this year than either of the last two because they are too talented, too much better than the comp and therefore bored. That is a ridiculous state of affairs in the most competitive league in the world and I'm sure it has impacted Durant more than anyone else on the team. Oddly then the best way for Durant to currently fix this is for the Warriors to be more dominant. But I'm kinda rooting for Curry to take the wheel of the team, win finals MVP and maybe as 2nd banana Durant decides to go elsewhere next year in a Kyrie Irving kind of way. If he chooses Philly, Boston or Houston then he really is a ;)
If he chose the Cavs and then came back and beat the Warriors in the finals would he be vindicated?!
 

intlzncster

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https://deadspin.com/watching-the-nba-finals-at-oracle-arena-with-the-overlo-1826500031
Here's something some of us can agree on, Dubs fans are the worst fans in all of sports. The team itself is literally trying to make “Hamptons Five” a thing. They have this strain of “f' you” classism that make me think the Pats aren’t so bad. The team leaving behind its Oakland fans is just like the indicative cherry on top a whole bunch of Silicon Valley vibe classism and pretension.

'Hamptons 5' might be the most obnoxious team nick in history. Be more wankerish. You can't.

Deadspin is such a lame site*, but that was a well written article. I kinda feel that classism thing. Even with other obnoxious fanbases, you don't get that.



Warriors fans deserve to be a little jerky, they’ve been some of the best fans in the sport for 30 years, with mostly crap teams, IMO.

Thing is, this is mostly not those people. Silicone valley jumps on a winner like no other place in the US. Hype train.
 
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For all the trashing KD has taken for being "soft," he was essentially a Spurs-killer, beating two of their better teams in the last decade. He also took a too-young OKC to the Finals. Westbrook was very good and all, but those were KD's teams.

Yeah. The nature of the sport - any sport, really - is such that we tend to remember the things that just happened, and because of the way the tournament is designed, those memories are almost always born from defeat. It's self-fulfilling.

Those two series against San Antonio - 2012 and then 2015 - are page one on KD's bio, even ahead of last year's finals, IMO. Those teams were both behemoths that people forget because of what came later. To go for 30, 7, 5, 2, and 2 on 53/36/91 shooting splits against that team is the theatre of the absurd. And then to do it again four years later - it's worth mentioning that they were only healthy for one of the seasons between those points - against what was I think the best defense in the league with really no infrastructure (the spacing on that team was horrific) is probably something only a select few could pull off. Those Spurs fly under the radar because the Warriors won 73, but any other year they would have been the prohibitive favorites. +10.6 point differential (the Dubs were +10.8) and 40-1 (!) at home. And KD beat them twice in three tries.

I wouldn't say I have less respect for KD now, but the way I'll put it is that I definitely don't think more of him as a player than I did then. Even as I watch the finals this year with a gross taste in my mouth, I find it hard to blame him because he's just a creation of the things we claim to want in an athlete. We can't have it both ways where context doesn't matter one moment - "no rings!" - and then the moment you do win them it does. If the people who have a problem with KD jumping to Oakland want to prevent such things from happening in the future, then their best option is to respect the talent from jump street. That's not to say criticism is off limits but don't be stupid and start telling me Kobe's better than LeBron (we heard that a lot before LeBron went to Miami). The alarming part shouldn't be LeBron and KD leaving as much as it should be the validation they've received for doing it.
 

intlzncster

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and maybe as 2nd banana Durant decides to go elsewhere next year in a Kyrie Irving kind of way. If he chooses Philly, Boston or Houston then he really is a ;)
If he chose the Cavs and then came back and beat the Warriors in the finals would he be vindicated?!

No chance. The Warriors offer the perfect system for Durant. Exactly the way he wants to play. He doesn't seem to be the type of guy who needs or wants to be the man.
 
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So you can't and won't evaluate KD's basketball playing ability fairly because of an off the court decision that conflicts with your definition of competition. I wish KD was still on OKC b/c that would have made for more competitive basketball, yet at the same time I can understand an athlete wanting to leave at best contentious situation for the best situation in the sport. All kinds of athletes in various sports choose the best situation to maximize their skills and earnings, for me leaving a team for a competitor isn't grounds for blacklisting a guy. I can still enjoy watching KD play and appreciate him.

But we all have our hot buttons, I rooted against straight from high school NBA players and very few ever broke through that dislike - I wanted them all proven not ready. But if that happened (i.e. Kobe choking early, Kendrick P, Gerald Greene) or they were so great it was obviously the right move (LeBron, KG) then I discarded my personal bias. In this case as great as he is, I think Russ' hero ball has proven that Durant had to get out of there. Assuming that he simply chose the best situation and the fact that it was the team that just beat him was merely happenstance. The fact that the team was already too good is what makes it problematic

But its been bad for basketball. The Warriors are literally worse this year than either of the last two because they are too talented, too much better than the comp and therefore bored. That is a ridiculous state of affairs in the most competitive league in the world and I'm sure it has impacted Durant more than anyone else on the team. Oddly then the best way for Durant to currently fix this is for the Warriors to be more dominant. But I'm kinda rooting for Curry to take the wheel of the team, win finals MVP and maybe as 2nd banana Durant decides to go elsewhere next year in a Kyrie Irving kind of way. If he chooses Philly, Boston or Houston then he really is a ;)
If he chose the Cavs and then came back and beat the Warriors in the finals would he be vindicated?!

Great post. The part about the Warriors being bored is so true and that's what bothers me the most. I hate seeing champs that win with their B game even when they can. Last year it was kind of fun because they were on a mission, this year I want something else. I could see them snapping out of it next year with Boston and maybe Philly if LeBron goes there posing more of a legitimate threat.
 
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Because competition and the competitive spirit is what drives sports. And while both moves:

Taking three stars from different teams and forming a new super-team (Bron)

Joining a dynastic power that just won 73 games with 3 HOFer and a unanimous MVP, who just came back from being down 3-1 on you in conference finals

May be on the same spectrum of actions that betray that competitive spirit, there is substantial distance between them on that spectrum.

What's the worst part of it? Is it joining the team that beat them? Or the already 3 HOFs thing? Or is it only when both combined? Is there a line? What if it were 2 HOFs and eliminated by them? 1 HOF, and 1 perennial All-Star?

Is it because they had the best record in the league previously? They didn't even win the title that year.
 
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https://deadspin.com/watching-the-nba-finals-at-oracle-arena-with-the-overlo-1826500031

Here's something some of us can agree on, Dubs fans are the worst fans in all of sports. The team itself is literally trying to make “Hamptons Five” a thing. They have this strain of “f' you” classism that make me think the Pats aren’t so bad. The team leaving behind its Oakland fans is just like the indicative cherry on top a whole bunch of Silicon Valley vibe classism and pretension.
I’m from the Hamptons, no one lukes them here, it’s pretty funny.
 
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No chance. The Warriors offer the perfect system for Durant. Exactly the way he wants to play. He doesn't seem to be the type of guy who needs or wants to be the man.

The stylistic part of it is what makes me a little more forgiving, even if he did violate the first rule on the playground. Watching him in Golden State reminds me of watching him play with USA basketball a lot more than OKC. I do think he threw Russ under the bus a little bit, intentionally or unintentionally. It's just hard to look at that MVP speech the same way now.
 
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'Hamptons 5' might be the most obnoxious team nick in history. Be more wankerish. You can't.

Deadspin is such a lame site, but I kinda feel that classism thing. Even with other obnoxious fanbases, you don't get that.




Thing is, this is mostly not those people. Silicone valley jumps on a winner like no other place in the US. Hype train.
It's Silicon Valley the largest concentration of young uber-rich. You're going to have a lot of douches but it's not representative of the Warriors fanbase, they always had great fans and that whole region wasn't always rich central, unfortunately the real fans have gotten priced out. Anytime your city changes and gets more new wealth your fans will change some. It's happened in the Bay, NYC, Boston, and Seattle.
 
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What's the worst part of it? Is it joining the team that beat them? Or the already 3 HOFs thing? Or is it only when both combined? Is there a line? What if it were 2 HOFs and eliminated by them? 1 HOF, and 1 perennial All-Star?

Is it because they had the best record in the league previously? They didn't even win the title that year.
I think you’re being a little difficult here. KD made a controversial decision that sorta seemed like cop out, we’re on one side that disagrees with his choice and find it very different from LeBron’s
 
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I think you’re being a little difficult here. KD made a controversial decision that sorta seemed like cop out, we’re on one side that disagrees with his choice and find it very different from LeBron’s
Again, I'm going to have to disagree. It's about finding the best fit and chasing championships. Lebron did it, Durant did it, and a whole bunch of other players did it.
 
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Saw some serious stats on FS1 today. Bron has been averaging 35/11/10 over this and last Finals, and Cleveland is 1-6 over that course.

Also that since he joined the league, he has 12 of the 13 performances in which a player scores or assists on 60+ points in a Finals game.
 
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No chance. The Warriors offer the perfect system for Durant. Exactly the way he wants to play. He doesn't seem to be the type of guy who needs or wants to be the man.
True, but I can see when Steph's star shines the brightest it makes Durant's dimmer. Durant is somehow the 2nd best player in basketball yet the 2nd best guy on his own team on certain nights.

Once upon a time we bought a story that Harden was happy coming of the bench for OKC and had no desire to be THE man. Now he's the 2nd biggest ball hog in the league.

My Durant theory reminds me of an interesting contrast in that 15 years ago we all were mad at Kobe & Shaq, they'd suffered losses & weren't invincible at that point, but nonetheless the rip on that 'selfish' feuding is that it broke up a dynasty. Ironically here we'd root for selfishness to happily breakup a dynasty.
 
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Again, I'm going to have to disagree. It's about finding the best fit and chasing championships. Lebron did it, Durant did it, and a whole bunch of other players did it.
Yeah but LeBron got such an absurd amount of hate. Durant has too, don’t get me wrong, but his choice was more controversial in my opinion.
 

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Yeah but LeBron got such an absurd amount of hate. Durant has too, don’t get me wrong, but his choice was more controversial in my opinion.

It wasn't LeBron's choice that pissed people off so much, it was the ridiculously tone def 'Decision' sideshow that went along with it. The 2,3,4...championships thing. The celebration before anybody did anything.
 
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Yeah but LeBron got such an absurd amount of hate. Durant has too, don’t get me wrong, but his choice was more controversial in my opinion.
I see what you're saying but I think a lot of the hate with Lebron was the circus surrounding the decision and it was the first time fans felt like no other teams in the NBA could compete anymore. The Celtics created a super team just a few years before but Lebron, Wade, and Bosh joining forces in South Beach felt different. As to Durant joining the Warriors I can see how many hate it and soured on him for joining forces but the Warrior hate feels strange. The Warriors did it all the right way, just like the Spurs. They became a super team because of amazing draft picks in Curry, Klay, and Draymond.
 
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I see what you're saying but I think a lot of the hate with Lebron was the circus surrounding the decision and it was the first time fans felt like no other teams in the NBA could compete anymore. The Celtics created a super team just a few years before but Lebron, Wade, and Bosh joining forces in South Beach felt different. As to Durant joining the Warriors I can see how many hate it and soured on him for joining forces but the Warrior hate feels strange. The Warriors did it all the right way, just like the Spurs. They became a super team because of amazing draft picks in Curry, Klay, and Draymond.
And, if you want to be mad at people, be mad at those players on other teams, since they refused (perhaps rightly) to smooth the cap jump, allowing Durant to go there.
 
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I see what you're saying but I think a lot of the hate with Lebron was the circus surrounding the decision and it was the first time fans felt like no other teams in the NBA could compete anymore. The Celtics created a super team just a few years before but Lebron, Wade, and Bosh joining forces in South Beach felt different. As to Durant joining the Warriors I can see how many hate it and soured on him for joining forces but the Warrior hate feels strange. The Warriors did it all the right way, just like the Spurs. They became a super team because of amazing draft picks in Curry, Klay, and Draymond.

It doesn’t help that the Warriors owner is a total as well, especially with his “light years ahead of everyone else” quote during their record setting regular season. Lacob and the other Silicon Valley venture capitalists that own the Warriors credit themselves first and foremost with the success of the team, saying that it’s what venture capitalists do best (“building company after company”) and that it was no accident. It’s a really bad thing to say because it’s so dismissive of other well run organizations, like the Spurs.
 
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It doesn’t help that the Warriors owner is a total as well, especially with his “light years ahead of everyone else” quote during their record setting regular season. Lacob and the other Silicon Valley venture capitalists that own the Warriors credit themselves first and foremost with the success of the team, saying that it’s what venture capitalists do best (“building company after company”) and that it was no accident. It’s a really bad thing to say because it’s so dismissive of other well run organizations, like the Spurs.
And not to mention they stand in at least a few degrees of separation from what happens on the court

Putting the ball in the hoop
Coaching and scheme
Roster creation
Contracts and negotiation

Do they have their hands in any of that?
 
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I see what you're saying but I think a lot of the hate with Lebron was the circus surrounding the decision and it was the first time fans felt like no other teams in the NBA could compete anymore. The Celtics created a super team just a few years before but Lebron, Wade, and Bosh joining forces in South Beach felt different. As to Durant joining the Warriors I can see how many hate it and soured on him for joining forces but the Warrior hate feels strange. The Warriors did it all the right way, just like the Spurs. They became a super team because of amazing draft picks in Curry, Klay, and Draymond.


The players took control of their own destinies. I thought it was one of the pivotal moments in sports in 30 years.

Of course, the Boston Big 3 really wasn't different. Ray signed on faith they would bring in someone like KG. KG agreed to the trade because Ray signed. Both of them had a hand in orchestrating the move. They just had the cover of the front office.
 
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Tonight is a really big game. Cavs need it both to have any chance in the series AND to have any chance at retaining LeBron. Not the biggest game in Cavs history since you have the 2016 finals, but outside of games 6 & 7 of that series certainly the biggest.

It seems binary, either the team steps up both offensively & defensively and they win or they don't. Normally I'd think the Warriors would have something to say about this and possibly bring a killer mentality to stomp on Cleveland's throats, but that simply hasn't been in the Warriors nature this season. I guess the 3rd theoretical possibility is LeBron has a mediocre game, but that's just not happening.

Even though I predicted a Warriors sweep and I predict LeBron goes to LA, I acknowledge the possibility that LeBron stays in Cleveland at least one more year and therefore I kind of think he's going to get it done tonight. Maybe that's just what I want to watch.
 
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Tonight is a really big game. Cavs need it both to have any chance in the series AND to have any chance at retaining LeBron. Not the biggest game in Cavs history since you have the 2016 finals, but outside of games 6 & 7 of that series certainly the biggest.

It seems binary, either the team steps up both offensively & defensively and they win or they don't. Normally I'd think the Warriors would have something to say about this and possibly bring a killer mentality to stomp on Cleveland's throats, but that simply hasn't been in the Warriors nature this season. I guess the 3rd theoretical possibility is LeBron has a mediocre game, but that's just not happening.

Even though I predicted a Warriors sweep and I predict LeBron goes to LA, I acknowledge the possibility that LeBron stays in Cleveland at least one more year and therefore I kind of think he's going to get it done tonight. Maybe that's just what I want to watch.

I see it as empty theatre. The series is over and the only thing left to watch for is the show.

Cleveland cobbling together a win or even two won't impact LeBron's decision. He knows he's not winning with this group. If he stays in Cleveland, it will be for non-basketball reasons.
 

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