OT: Napheesa has her say on WNBA leadership

[oldude]

Another element of this matter is that to date, Engelbert has largely been a solitary figure representing the W in discussions with the players and updates with the media. Where in the hell are Adam Silver and the owners? In just about every other labor dispute involving a professional sports league, invariably there is an ownership committee, made up of respected long-time owners, who are empowered by all the other owners to negotiate on their behalf. The NFL comes to mind where Art Rooney of the Steelers and Wellington Mara of the Giants were both involved in one such labor dispute.

Engelbert appears to be out there twisting in the wind, all by herself. It just may be possible that she has been ordered not to negotiate any substantive agreement at present, thereby forcing the league to shut down. While the owners may well be setting up Engelbert to be “the fall guy” in all of this, that still doesn’t get her much sympathy from me or most WBB fans. Her “ham-handed” way of dealing with all of this has pissed off everybody.

 

[cancontent]

Another element of this matter is that to date, Engelbert has largely been a solitary figure representing the W in discussions with the players and updates with the media. Where in the hell are Adam Silver and the owners? In just about every other labor dispute involving a professional sports league, invariably there is an ownership committee, made up of respected long-time owners, who are empowered by all the other owners to negotiate on their behalf. The NFL comes to mind where Art Rooney of the Steelers and Wellington Mara of the Giants were both involved in one such labor dispute.

Engelbert appears to be out there twisting in the wind, all by herself. It just may be possible that she has been ordered not to negotiate any substantive agreement at present, thereby forcing the league to shut down. While the owners may well be setting up Engelbert to be “the fall guy” in all of this, that still doesn’t get her much sympathy from me or most WBB fans. Her “ham-handed” way of dealing with all of this has pissed off everybody.

Silver says WNBA deal will get done, but relationship issues with the players must be repaired

NBA Commissioner Adam Silver says a new collective bargaining agreement with WNBA players will be reached, but acknowledged relationship issues that must be repaired following recent criticisms of Commissioner Cathy Engelbert.

apnews.com

His ears must have been burning. 😉

 

[oldude]

Silver says WNBA deal will get done, but relationship issues with the players must be repaired

NBA Commissioner Adam Silver says a new collective bargaining agreement with WNBA players will be reached, but acknowledged relationship issues that must be repaired following recent criticisms of Commissioner Cathy Engelbert.

apnews.com

His ears must have been burning. 😉

The acknowledgment by Silver that “relationship issues must be repaired” is a mouthful and a half, that may just point to Engelbert’s eventual departure. Time will tell.

 

[NoSpamHere]

Something to keep in mind is that it’s not the players vs the team owners, like most leagues. It’s the players vs the team owners, the NBA and the 3rd party investors. I’m sure that triad has some major alignment issues as to what each wants out of all this.

I would bet if it was just players vs teams the negotiations would be much easier for everyone.

 

[Dogdude]

In the end, it's always the players vs. the owners. They have the dough, and all the other people involved are just conduits for the negotiations. All the talking heads right now are making this more complicated than necessary. But the owners better start talking, as these negotiations have a wild card that complicates things, and that's the fans, who are seemingly hard on the side of the players, and they're not afraid to walk to either Unrivaled or their favorite college teams. They can't wait too long, or things get tougher. If I'm an owner, I'd start pushing to dump Englebert right now and get started by giving the players both more dough and superior officiating right off the bat, and then start niggling on the details. But they should be starting with a pretty grand gesture quickly, as the college season and Unrivaled are starting up, and we won't miss that odd WWE-ball that for some reason the league is passing off as basketball.

 

[NoSpamHere]

In the end, it's always the players vs. the owners. They have the dough, and all the other people involved are just conduits for the negotiations. All the talking heads right now are making this more complicated than necessary. But the owners better start talking, as these negotiations have a wild card that complicates things, and that's the fans, who are seemingly hard on the side of the players, and they're not afraid to walk to either Unrivaled or their favorite college teams. They can't wait too long, or things get tougher. If I'm an owner, I'd start pushing to dump Englebert right now and get started by giving the players both more dough and superior officiating right off the bat, and then start niggling on the details. But they should be starting with a pretty grand gesture quickly, as the college season and Unrivaled are starting up, and we won't miss that odd WWE-ball that for some reason the league is passing off as basketball.

The players vs which owners? Team owners? Investor owners? NBA owners? I guaranty you those three have totally different goals here.

This is what the future will look like if/when PE ever gets involved with college sports. Too many agendas.

 

[CL82]

When someone buys a (WNBA) team for billions

... it will be the first time.

 

[CL82]

We have a winnnnnuh!

Best typo of the month, lay—deeeees anna gennnullmin.


(I wonder if she was thinking of Steven A. Smith? 😇

Not bad. I still like "we do not consider ourselves the defending chimps."

 

[Dogdude]

The players vs which owners? Team owners? Investor owners? NBA owners? I guaranty you those three have totally different goals here.

This is what the future will look like if/when PE ever gets involved with college sports. Too many agendas.

I think it's less complicated than that. Anyone involved in ownership has one goal: make money. There's the pride of owning a team, sure, but it better either make money or be a brilliant tax write-off. As for the various people involved, if you look at the term "owners" and understand that it might be an individual or a group (like the Sun) they're basically one unit per team. The umbrella organization, the WNBA or the NBA, exists at the whim of the owners as a group. It exists to keep some sort of order so that a few renegade owners don't screw things up for the rest of the club. Overspending on players and ruining the salary structure is a big one, moving to different locations is another, and of course negotiating TV rights deals as there's strength in numbers. So in the end, it still comes back to the ownership unit of each specific club that's going up against the players. Right now, the players can play all over the world if they choose, and for more money virtually everywhere else. I'd say the owners need to come in hard with a strong opener, and reasonably quickly if they want to keep momentum going. This isn't complicated at all.

 

[NoSpamHere]

I think it's less complicated than that. Anyone involved in ownership has one goal: make money. There's the pride of owning a team, sure, but it better either make money or be a brilliant tax write-off. As for the various people involved, if you look at the term "owners" and understand that it might be an individual or a group (like the Sun) they're basically one unit per team. The umbrella organization, the WNBA or the NBA, exists at the whim of the owners as a group. It exists to keep some sort of order so that a few renegade owners don't screw things up for the rest of the club. Overspending on players and ruining the salary structure is a big one, moving to different locations is another, and of course negotiating TV rights deals as there's strength in numbers. So in the end, it still comes back to the ownership unit of each specific club that's going up against the players. Right now, the players can play all over the world if they choose, and for more money virtually everywhere else. I'd say the owners need to come in hard with a strong opener, and reasonably quickly if they want to keep momentum going. This isn't complicated at all.

While I agree that they have the same goal: “make money”, how they do this is different depending on what they actually own. Unfortunately, we don’t know how revenue is apportioned amongst all the groups. The knowledge would be very useful in understanding the motivation off each specific group,

In every other major league, the owners are purely team owners who have come together to form a partnership. The WNBA is (currently) unique in its structure. I would bet that’s one of the reasons the league is screwing around with the Sun. Team owners want franchise appreciation while league/investor owners want expansion $$$. It’s definitely a different dynamic.

 

[EricSD]

I have a question - there seems to be a myth that is being perpetuated by I'm not sure who. I can't find the article, but it was from ESPN and it talked about Unrivaled and AU saying that they were "rival leagues to the WNBA". How? I would understand if they were trying to encroach on the WNBA season and pull players from the WNBA, but it seems like the W should LOVE Unrivaled - great pay, keeps the players in the US, smaller court, hopefully less chance for injuries, and no overlap. What am I missing?

I was reading that Saudi Arabia is trying to start a basketball league to compete against the NBA - funding it from the Sovereign Wealth Fund - many seem to be pooh-poohing it, but never underestimate SA's ability to throw billions at something if they want it enough. I wonder if they will try for a women's basketball league. That would seem to be a bigger rival to the W, especially if they choose to have their league the same calendar season as the W...

 

[cancontent]

I have a question - there seems to be a myth that is being perpetuated by I'm not sure who. I can't find the article, but it was from ESPN and it talked about Unrivaled and AU saying that they were "rival leagues to the WNBA". How? I would understand if they were trying to encroach on the WNBA season and pull players from the WNBA, but it seems like the W should LOVE Unrivaled - great pay, keeps the players in the US, smaller court, hopefully less chance for injuries, and no overlap. What am I missing?

I was reading that Saudi Arabia is trying to start a basketball league to compete against the NBA - funding it from the Sovereign Wealth Fund - many seem to be pooh-poohing it, but never underestimate SA's ability to throw billions at something if they want it enough. I wonder if they will try for a women's basketball league. That would seem to be a bigger rival to the W, especially if they choose to have their league the same calendar season as the W...

WNBA Star Claims League Wants to 'Push Unrivaled Out' Amid Tense CBA Negotiations

In tandem with WNBA All-Star weekend festivities, WNBA officials met with the players association (WNBPA) to discuss the leagues next CBA (Collective Bargaining

www.si.com

I've never seen anything from the WNBA publicly stating they see either league as a rival. Don't recall seeing anything from ESPN either. Closest to it is this article from Sports Illustrated prior to the all-star game which may what you're thinking of. In reading it, the rivalry perception may have come from Gabby Williams' comments per this quote:

" “Especially being in the CBA meeting yesterday, it’s very clear that the league wants to push away all other leagues without still paying us more than those other leagues pay us,” Seattle Storm forward Gabby Williams told the media Friday.

“It would make sense if they were paying us more here but it still isn't the case, even with the new proposal. And it’s very clear now that they want to push Unrivaled out, push [Athletes Unlimited] out…so I think now more than ever it’s important to push against these kinds of issues.” "

 

[Dogdude]

Yeah, Unrivaled was specifically formed not to be in competition with the W, just an enhancement for the players. But, you know, we'll see...

 

[Bigboote]

This has been discussed in the thread on the general board. I think there's consensus that: a) the WNBA is embarrassed that the upstart league is able to pay the players way better than the 25-year-old WNBA; b) The W is concerned that Unrivaled may be taking investors away from the W.

I'm with you, Engelbert and the WNBA brass should be thanking their lucky stars for Unrivaled (and maybe AU, which I know nothing about). The W has the rule that veterans can't show up more than a few games into the season due to overseas obligations. Unrivaled specifically doesn't overlap with the WNBA season and they pay well enough that players don't need to go overseas for the paycheck. And the season is short enough that they players get a month or so off at each end. So the best players don't sit out seasons, plus they arrive healthier. That's a win-win.

But Engelbert doesn't understand that. And, totally unrelated to the above but directly related to the thread, she also doesn't understand Napheesa Collier. She's the granddaughter of a diplomat, whom she reveres. And her father raised her with a deep sense of what is right. For Engelbert to basically accuse Collier of lying -- nobody who knows anything about Collier would ever think that.