My count was 23 BYU kids were missionaries

[ShakyTheMohel]

Did you BYU folk ever think that the reason that teams always bring this up is because it is true? Just maybe?

No one is saying it is cheating....or that you don't have other disadvantages....but regarding this situation, BYU does have an advantage.

 

[Ogden Cougar]

Did you BYU folk ever think that the reason that teams always bring this up is because it is true? Just maybe?

No one is saying it is cheating....or that you don't have other disadvantages....but regarding this situation, BYU does have an advantage.

It sounds like you're already coming up with excuses for losing before the game is even played. Taking 2 years off to preach the gospel doesn't make you a better football player. That's ridiculous. This argument is getting tiring.

 

[eric the blue]

Did you BYU folk ever think that the reason that teams always bring this up is because it is true? Just maybe?

No one is saying it is cheating....or that you don't have other disadvantages....but regarding this situation, BYU does have an advantage.

Yeah, I think that has occurred to me. But the opinion usually comes from somebody who has ZERO understanding of our program because they have had limited exposure to us and they tend to oversimplify the issue.

Yes, I conceded before that there are probably some advantages to it, but there are as many, if not more, disadvantages. Bottom line is that every program in the nation could utilize this NCAA "rule" by sending their kids to the peace corps. If it were really that big of an advantage EVERY competitive program would utilize it; but NONE of them do. Can't really argue with that.

It's also funny to me that opposing fans/coaches bring this up saying "it's not fair, they're so big and strong and old" and when we point out that this excuse/complaint is actually not valid then you argue in return that it is an advantage and it's not fair. What is the point of bringing this up? Is it so that you have something to complain about or blame it on if you lose?

 

[Ogden Cougar]

Yeah, I think that has occurred to me. But the opinion usually comes from somebody who has ZERO understanding of our program because they have had limited exposure to us and they tend to oversimplify the issue.

Yes, I conceded before that there are probably some advantages to it, but there are as many, if not more, disadvantages. Bottom line is that every program in the nation could utilize this NCAA "rule" by sending their kids to the peace corps. If it were really that big of an advantage EVERY competitive program would utilize it; but NONE of them do. Can't really argue with that.

It's also funny to me that opposing fans/coaches bring this up saying "it's not fair, they're so big and strong and old" and when we point out that this excuse/complaint is actually not valid then you argue in return that it is an advantage and it's not fair. What is the point of bringing this up? Is it so that you have something to complain about or blame it on if you lose?

Very well put

 

[CAHUSKY]

\Bottom line is that every program in the nation could utilize this NCAA "rule" by sending their kids to the peace corps. If it were really that big of an advantage EVERY competitive program would utilize it; but NONE of them do. Can't really argue with that.

No they wouldn't. 99.9% of kids would never except a two year stint in the peace corp as a realistic option. BYU players do their mission because they are devout to their religion and take pride in sharing the Mormon religion around the world. That's a beautiful thing but no other 18 - 21 year old kid without that type of devotion would ever make that choice. The simple fact is that it is beneficial to have 23/24 year old kids playing against 18 year olds. That said, we agree that BYU also has some limitations regarding who they recruit that likely offsets that advantage. Because of this, you often have one of the best lines in the country and are limited in the skill positions. Such is life.

 

[BluePete]

The honor code is the real differentiator. We have higher standards.

 

[Ogden Cougar]

No they wouldn't. 99.9% of kids would never except a two year stint in the peace corp as a realistic option. BYU players do their mission because they are devout to their religion and take pride in sharing the Mormon religion around the world. That's a beautiful thing but no other 18 - 21 year old kid without that type of devotion would ever make that choice. The simple fact is that it is beneficial to have 23/24 year old kids playing against 18 year olds. That said, we agree that BYU also has some limitations regarding who they recruit that likely offsets that advantage. Because of this, you often have one of the best lines in the country and are limited in the skill positions. Such is life.

You obviously haven't seen our O-line the last few years. Those returned missionaries haven't done very well.

 

[CAHUSKY]

You obviously haven't seen our O-line the last few years. Those returned missionaries haven't done very well.

The past couple of years excluded, which is why I said "often" and not always. Phil Steele ranked them as the 15th best offensive line in the country this year so it seems things are returning to normal.

 

[KBCoug]

Did you BYU folk ever think that the reason that teams always bring this up is because it is true? Just maybe?

No one is saying it is cheating....or that you don't have other disadvantages....but regarding this situation, BYU does have an advantage.

when you're as old as I am, and have been a BYU fan as long as I can remember I recall the dark days before coach Edwards became the head coach and started winning. If we won 4 or 5 games in a season it was celebration time. One of the reasons the critics gave for losing was guys leaving on missions. Coach Edwards created one of the first passing offenses and the wins came. Now what had been a reason we couldn't win was a huge advantage brought up by the same teams that beat us before. Coach Edwards said it best when he said he found if a player was good before his mission he was usually good after, and if he wasn't good before his wasn't likely to be after.
I just hope after the game neither fanbase will have to find excuses for how their team played.

 

[eric the blue]

No they wouldn't. 99.9% of kids would never except a two year stint in the peace corp as a realistic option. BYU players do their mission because they are devout to their religion and take pride in sharing the Mormon religion around the world. That's a beautiful thing but no other 18 - 21 year old kid without that type of devotion would ever make that choice. The simple fact is that it is beneficial to have 23/24 year old kids playing against 18 year olds. That said, we agree that BYU also has some limitations regarding who they recruit that likely offsets that advantage. Because of this, you often have one of the best lines in the country and are limited in the skill positions. Such is life.

I think I can agree with this assessment. Our lines have been soft the last few years, but traditionally we usually have pretty nasty lines and it is probably, in part, due to this. The skill position challenges are probably due to this missionary issue as well as our honor code. Your typical "athlete" usually does not want to go to a school like BYU with its strict honor code.

 

[SubbaBub]

No need for everyone to get into a snit. It's longstanding UConn tradition to leave a bowl of Werther's Originals by the entrance to the visitor's locker room. Everything will be cool.

 

[ShakyTheMohel]

No they wouldn't. 99.9% of kids would never except a two year stint in the peace corp as a realistic option. BYU players do their mission because they are devout to their religion and take pride in sharing the Mormon religion around the world. That's a beautiful thing but no other 18 - 21 year old kid without that type of devotion would ever make that choice. The simple fact is that it is beneficial to have 23/24 year old kids playing against 18 year olds. That said, we agree that BYU also has some limitations regarding who they recruit that likely offsets that advantage. Because of this, you often have one of the best lines in the country and are limited in the skill positions. Such is life.

Exactly. What a ridiculous argument.

Sensitive bunch these BYU fans. Can't be the caffeine ...

 

[Fishy]

These f---ers are sensitive.

It's simply an advantage to play 23 year olds against 21 year olds.

There is no arguing it. I don't care if they spent the two years on a mission, on a mission to Mars or running through fields of daisies with sparklers jammed in their asses.

Please, dear lord, stop making yourselves look stupid - no one is criticizing or minimizing BYU over it. It just is what it is.

PS - I took the tour in Salt Lake City where you go up and up in that cathedral thing and at the top is a ginormous talking Jesus. That was kinda weird.

 

[dylanrob]

PS - I took the tour in Salt Lake City where you go up and up in that cathedral thing and at the top is a ginormous talking Jesus. That was kinda weird.

Cool story bro - I think that pretty much ends all debate right there!

 

[BluePete]

Our players are not older!

 

[Pudge]

Many of us have kids - some college age.

It's shocking, to me, the high percentages you are posting. (Even my count of 23). That's a spiritual commitment that we don't see in our communities (often). I'm happy if my kid went to church on campus - frankly. I am impressed.

But, this higher standards thing? I'm not accepting that easily. We are just talking of a cultural difference: my kids & our family & our community have Values. We just came through differently.

 

[eric the blue]

Many of us have kids - some college age.

It's shocking, to me, the high percentages you are posting. (Even my count of 23). That's a spiritual commitment that we don't see in our communities (often). I'm happy if my kid went to church on campus - frankly. I am impressed.

But, this higher standards thing? I'm not accepting that easily. We are just talking of a cultural difference: my kids & our family & our community have Values. We just came through differently.

I agree. I don't think higher standards was the right way of saying that, I would just say different standards.

 

[BYUBurr]

Hey, Husky fans! First time poster and BYU guy here.

First, I want to say that I'm excited for this Friday's matchup. Looking over your 2-deep roster, recent recruiting classes, and new coaching staff, I believe my cougs are in for a dogfight at Rentschler Field in a couple days. Given BYU's recent suspensions, and its tendency to underachieve in games on the east coast, I think this contest will be closer than Vegas and the national pundits think it will be. I expect a tough game.

With regards to the topic of this thread...I think the BYU/missionary thing is a bit overplayed. I will concede that a couple years of mental and emotional development can be beneficial to a young football player. And it goes without saying that a couple years of physical maturation can benefit players greatly (especially offensive and defensive linemen). However, I think spending two years away from the game, and away from anything even resembling a strength and conditioning regimen is an absolute detriment to skill players. I can tell you from experience that a 2 year church mission in a foreign country is a physical grind. Missions take a toll on one's body (I was very, very tired, had dropped 30 pounds, and had lost significant muscle mass by the end of my mission...missionary service in many parts of the world is brutal).

The sad truth is that many return missionary football players never get back to pre-mission form and wash out of the BYU football program. Return missionaries also have a very high rate of injury when compared to other players (trying to get back into playing shape after taking two full years off places RM's at a very high risk for groin, hamstring and leg injuries...many years fall and spring football camp depth charts at BYU read like return missionary triage lists). BYU has a very high attrition rate among RM's because of this.

In the end, I think any advantage the missionary program would theoretically give to BYU is negated by the nature of missions and missionary work. I'm from the Provo area, and a number of my friends and relatives have played football at BYU over the years (two on this year's roster). I'm here to tell you that their missions have made their D-1 careers much more difficult than they would have been otherwise.

 

[Nostical]

It's simply an advantage to play 23 year olds against 21 year olds. There is no arguing it.

Actually Fishy, it is arguable. If it's such an advantage then why are 23-26 year olds allowed to compete against 19-22 year olds? If older means stronger, wiser and more dominant--and if the advantage is that significant, the NCAA would prohibit it, no matter the religious freedom arguments. While the age advantage argument is certainly true in the younger years (that's why Youth Football has age limitations) bottom line, in the 19-26 age range, talent beats age----especially when you factor in the level of that talent .
If you combine the fact that a large number of more stellar athletes are unwilling to adhere to the rigid code of honor at BYU (thus reducing the pool of available talent) with the two year mission requirement that is a fact of life in Provo, I don't think it's outlandish to say that while BYU's players may be older and likely more mature, on balance they are a less talented group of athletes than those at many other schools that have younger, faster players. Currently there are 9 BYU players in the NFL. UConn has 20. Play the game. No excuses.

 

[BlueMAB]

Just so we are clear. The idea that all these guys are in some dirt poor village in the a 3rd world country is patently false.

SOME are.

Others are in NYC, Columbus OH, Las Vegas, Jackson MS, Atlanta GA, Oakland CA, Denver CO, Carlsbad CA, Texas, Montreal Quebec, Leeds England, Birmingham England, Scotland/Ireland, Tulsa Oklahoma, Richmond VA, Nashville TN...

I didn't count each one, but roughly half their missionaries are not in third world countries. And just because one is in Argentina, Honduras. Uruguay doesn't automatically mean they are hundreds of miles from civilization. They could be, but it's not a given.

I'm sure they work very hard during their missions. But it can't be that difficult to sneak a work out in 5 days a week living in NYC, Atlanta, Nashville, or any of the other dozen major cities they are living in for two years.

http://byucougars.com/m-football/missionaries

 

[Fishy]

Actually Fishy, it is arguable. If it's such an advantage then why are 23-26 year olds allowed to compete against 19-22 year olds? If older means stronger, wiser and more dominant--and if the advantage is that significant, the NCAA would prohibit it, no matter the religious freedom arguments. While the age advantage argument is certainly true in the younger years (that's why Youth Football has age limitations) bottom line, in the 19-26 age range, talent beats age----especially when you factor in the level of that talent .
If you combine the fact that a large number of more stellar athletes are unwilling to adhere to the rigid code of honor at BYU (thus reducing the pool of available talent) with the two year mission requirement that is a fact of life in Provo, I don't think it's outlandish to say that while BYU's players may be older and likely more mature, on balance they are a less talented group of athletes than those at many other schools that have younger, faster players. Currently there are 9 BYU players in the NFL. UConn has 20. Play the game. No excuses.

That was a very long way to go to completely miss the point.

 

[Nostical]

That was a very long way to go to completely miss the point.

It was late and I was delirious.

 

[JimmerJammer]

Just so we are clear. The idea that all these guys are in some dirt poor village in the a 3rd world country is patently false.

SOME are.

Others are in NYC, Columbus OH, Las Vegas, Jackson MS, Atlanta GA, Oakland CA, Denver CO, Carlsbad CA, Texas, Montreal Quebec, Leeds England, Birmingham England, Scotland/Ireland, Tulsa Oklahoma, Richmond VA, Nashville TN...

I didn't count each one, but roughly half their missionaries are not in third world countries. And just because one is in Argentina, Honduras. Uruguay doesn't automatically mean they are hundreds of miles from civilization. They could be, but it's not a given.

I'm sure they work very hard during their missions. But it can't be that difficult to sneak a work out in 5 days a week living in NYC, Atlanta, Nashville, or any of the other dozen major cities they are living in for two years.

http://byucougars.com/m-football/missionaries

You have zero idea how the LDS missionary program works.

 

[RedSoloCup]

I think we can get two more pages on this thread by kickoff if we really try.

C'mon all, you can doooo eeeeet!

 

[BlueMAB]

You have zero idea how the LDS missionary program works.

I have some idea. I can read. There's this funny thing about information, it's widely available and often used to prove someone's narrative is complete bull .

Of the 57 football players serving missions, 29 are in First World Countries, and most of those in America.


http://byucougars.com/m-football/missionaries


Missionaries

One of the first questions Bronco Mendenhall was asked after becoming the head coach at BYU was what he thought about the missionary program and if he felt it helped or hurt the BYU football program.

“Serving missions is what makes this team, this university and the Church unique,” Mendenhall said. “These unique characteristics are based upon sound principles and values. Why would we not embrace them?”

Brigham Young University is owned and operated by The Church of of Latter-day Saints. The missionary emphasis of the Church is perhaps one of its most recognized characteristics. Since the organization of the Church in 1830, over one million missionaries have served.

The Church operates 405 missions around the world in 145 nations speaking 164 languages. A mission covers a geographic area and has a central headquarters. Each is presided over by a mission president who is called from the ranks of the Church membership to serve for a period of three years. The mission president directs the work of the missionaries assigned to his mission.

More than 70,000 missionaries representing The Church of of Latter-day Saints are serving proselytizing missions in 330 missions around the world. Seventy-five percent of the Church’s proselytizing missionaries are young men between the ages of 18 and 26. A substantial number of young women and older couples also serve proselytizing missions.

Missionaries work long hours—seven days a week for two years or 18 months for women and couples—teaching the Gospel of and participating in community service.

In addition, about 23,000 individuals (including couples) are given special service assignments. Health specialists and doctors go to developing countries where the Church’s health services program teaches preventive care. Craftsmen, artisans and construction supervisors train members in local building projects. Agricultural experts train people to produce food more effectively and economically. Other mission assignments include education, family history research and leadership training.

The missionaries and/or their families donate money to the Church to pay for their personal expenses. When his or her assignment is completed, the missionary returns home to pursue vocational, academic or other personal goals. Aside from their brief orientation at a missionary training center, missionaries receive little formal training for their ministry. Missionary preparation comes primarily from personal study and, in many cases, from examples taught in the home from childhood.

The Church of of Latter-day Saints was officially organized on April 6, 1830 with six members. Today, congregations of the Church are found in more than 160 nations and territories. With over 13 million members, it is one of the fastest growing religions in the world and one of the largest Christian churches in the United States.

The Church of of Latter-day Saints is Christian, but is neither Catholic nor Protestant. Rather, it is a restoration of the original church established by . For more information on the beliefs of the Church of of Latter-day Saints, visit www.lds.org.

COUGARS CURRENTLY SERVING

PLAYER MISSION LOCATION
Brian Rawlinson Auckland New Zealand
Peter Welsh Argentina Rosario
Kesni Tausinga Figi Suva
Matt Sumsion Mississippi Jackson
Alex Leonard Scotland/Ireland
Hunter Moore Ohio Columbus
Adam Pulsipher Chile Rancagua
Tanner Balderree England Leeds
Austin Heder Canada Montreal
Ului Lapuaho Australia Sydney
Graham Rowley Illinois Chicago
Travis Tuilama Western Samoa Apia
Baker Pritchard Hawaii Honolulu
Va'a Nuimatalolo Utah St. George
Corbin Kaufusi Korea Seoul
Corey Edwards Taiwan Taipei
Colby Jorgensen Canada Calgary
Gavin Fowler California Long Beach
McCoy Hill Texas McAllen
Steven Richards New York New York North
Grant Jones Nevada Las Vegas West
Manu Mulitalo Oklahoma Tulsa
Colby Hansen Chile Concepcion South
Troy Hinds Mississippi Jackson
Phillip Amone Chile Osorno
Moses Kaumatule California Oakland
Ryan Jensen Chile Concepcion
Rhett Sandlin Tennessee Nashville
Tyson Brook Arizona Mesa
Dylan Collie Virginia Richmond
Morgan Unga Virginia Richmond
Zachary Saunders Argentina Neuquen
Quin Ficklin New York New York North
Sawyer Powell Uruguay Montevideo
Micah Hannemann California Carlsbad
Roman Andrus Mexico Monterey West
Nate Sampson California Roseville
Austin Hoyt Colorado Denver North
Bryan Engstrom Canada Calgary
Matt Hadley Brazil Salvador South
Brayden El-Bakri Uruguary Monevideo West
Butch Pauu Honduras Tegucigalpa
Moroni Laulu-Pututau Chile Antofagasta
Lene Lesatele Phillipines Naga
Taumata Tofi Phillipines Manila
Connor Noe Chile Concepcion
Daniel Lacey Uruguary Montevideo
Talon Shumway Texas McAllen
Nathan DuBeikes England Birmingham
Alex Kuresa Samoa Apia
Tanner Magnum Chile Antofogasta
Inoke Lotulelei Mexico Juarez
Francis Bernard Georgia Atlanta
Taggart Krueger Phillipines Quezon City North
Creed Richardson Costa Rica San Jose
Josh Weeks Washington Kennewick
Trevor Brown Adriatic North