Muffet McGraw wins

[Orangutan]

I'm curious what source you're using for these "top 10 kids"? Using different ranking services the current ND team has up to 5 top 10 kids, 8 McDonald's AA's and 4 National P-O-Y's! Brianna Turner and Erin Boley were both #1 recruits on some ranking services.

3 "top 10 kids" for ND is accurate if using ESPN Hoopgurlz. Turner (#2, 2014), Ogunbowale (#10, 2015), and Boley (#5, 2016).

Young was the Naismith HS POY but #11 in ESPN's rankings. Similarly, Marina Mabrey was much more highly ranked by the other services and would be "top 1o" if looking a composite of the rankings.

 

[CONNMAN98]

3 "top 10 kids" for ND is accurate if using ESPN Hoopgurlz. Turner (#2, 2014), Ogunbowale (#10, 2015), and Boley (#5, 2016).

Young was the Naismith HS POY but #11 in ESPN's rankings. Similarly, Marina Mabrey was much more highly ranked by the other services and would be "top 1o" if looking a composite of the rankings.

I was just trying to show that there are different ways to present rankings. If you want to go with Hoopgurlz you can also say they have 5 that were top 13! Not much different! Also not mentioning 8 McDonald's AA's because that wouldn't fit the way the stats are framed!

 

[UConnNick]

If championship wins are the only measure of a great coach, everyone besides Geno and Pat are mediocre. And for pretty much every program besides Connecticut, making the Final Four is a massive accomplishment worth stacking on your resume.

You're engaged in a classic strawman argument with yourself. I never indicated the coaches you mention were "mediocre". That's your word. I acknowledged there are other great coaches. I take issue with calling anyone other than Auriemma or Summit "elite" just because they won a couple of championships. When any of them come remotely close to what Geno and Pat have accomplished, then they'll be worthy of mention with them as elite. Until then, it's Geno, Pat and nobody else.

 

[ivrytontusker]

WCBB cannot be compared with the NFL or MCBB because there's an ocean of difference in between due to parity. The NFL and MCBB have it. The women's game doesn't. Just winning regular season games is a struggle in both sports. The women have maybe 5 teams going into each season with some chance to win it all. There are few major upsets at the top of that pyramid, and the top teams only face a handful of games each season with any doubt about who's going to win. There's an appreciable drop off in talent even among the top 6-25 teams vs the top 5. Those teams rarely beat the top 5. As a top 5 team you're going to mow down 3/4 of your schedule, have maybe a handful of wins in the 10-15 point range, and maybe struggle in a few close games against the top 5. That's guaranteed each and every season. That is not remotely close to the reality faced by coaches in college sports where Nos. 10-100 or lower can beat you if you're not on top of your game.

That's why the NFL and MCBB coaches you mention cannot be judged by the same standards as WCBB coaches.

We're talking about a coach's success level in the finals -when they are playing other top teams- rather than a coach's overall winning %. So I'm not sure what the relevance of 'parity' is here.

Also, even if parity is relevant, it is not clear that there was parity in the men's game when, say, Dean Smith was coaching against (and losing to) UCLA in the 60s and 70s.

Anyway, it sounds like there isn't much of a fundamental disagreement here. Nobody is going to challenge Geno and Pat's position vis-a-vis the other coaches; I think the main disagreement is about whether championships alone are the criteria we should look at when comparing Mulkey and McGraw.

And for pretty much every program besides Connecticut, making the Final Four is a massive accomplishment worth stacking on your resume.

Once Geno retires and we enter a period that is likely (although not certain) to be similar to UCLA post-Wooden (winning 1 title from 1976-present after winning 10 titles from 1964-75) maybe people in CT will start thinking of Final Four appearances as significant again.

 

[bballnut90]

You're engaged in a classic strawman argument with yourself. I never indicated the coaches you mention were "mediocre". That's your word. I acknowledged there are other great coaches. I take issue with calling anyone other than Auriemma or Summit "elite" just because they won a couple of championships. When any of them come remotely close to what Geno and Pat have accomplished, then they'll be worthy of mention with them as elite. Until then, it's Geno, Pat and nobody else.

I've never said she was the best ever or on par with Pat or Geno. Those are the best ever. More than 2 can be categorized as elite in my book. But aside from winning one more championship, I'm still unsure how you can conclude that Mulkey is a superior coach to McGraw. Based on your tone about McGraw and how you're only highlighting her losses in championship games, it seems you have some sort of agenda against her or her program.

 

[UConnNick]

I've never said she was the best ever or on par with Pat or Geno. Those are the best ever. More than 2 can be categorized as elite in my book. But aside from winning one more championship, I'm still unsure how you can conclude that Mulkey is a superior coach to McGraw. Based on your tone about McGraw and how you're only highlighting her losses in championship games, it seems you have some sort of agenda against her or her program.

As for having an agenda against anybody, I'm no fan of ND, but I'm also not a Tenn. or Baylor supporter either, so I'm pretty neutral regarding these three schools and their coaches.

ND makes more athletic dept. revenue than any school in the country other than Texas. Another poster laid out quite an argument for McGraw doing a lot more than other coaches with lesser talent. If true, then she's not much of a recruiter considering she works with virtually unlimited resources. She won a single title when she beat a much depleted UConn team missing it's two best senior leaders. Not her fault, but it is what it is. That game probably ends up differently. Maybe ND wins it anyway, but maybe they don't.

Mulkey has one more title than McGraw, and I believe she's coached for fewer seasons. She deserves to get the edge between the two of them.