MS State thoughts for 2021-22

[JellyBean]

When starters transfer there is a problem. I seriously doubt Mississippi Stats will ever return to prominence with NMP as our coach. This season was a disaster directly related to NMP coaching. We would have done better hiring Coach Jumper!

Not always a problem when a player/starter transfers. Some of the transfers could be related to their degree programs. Not being in the loop, some of the issues could be related to the coaching and the different views on philosophy. Coach NMP is a solid coach and I am pretty sure that with the players staying and the incoming group of players will help return Mississippi State to a solid program. They will be fine with Coach NMP.

 

[southie]

Wait, that's implying she was in condition to run up and down the court, which she is not. It's beyond me to understand how a D1 top tier program can have players so far out of shape to perform their sport. Texas is a second round exit this year....

 

[HuskyFan1125]

Say what you will but Vic got a 20 win season and at least a Sweet Sixteen birth in the NCAAT. All with someone else’s players. I would say Texas outlook is pretty good not that I ever thought it wasn’t.

 

[Creature]

Should Vic take over for Gino when he retires ?

 

[southie]

Should Vic take over for Gino when he retires ?

Duh . . . Brenda already called dibs . . .

 

[Vowelguy]

NAME	POS	HGT	YEAR	HOMETOWN / HIGH SCHOOL / PREVIOUS SCHOOL
Caterrion Thompson	G	5-11	Gr.	Lima, Ohio / Lima Senior HS / Bowling Green
Yemiyah Morris	C	6-6	Sr.	San Bernardino, CA / Canyon Springs HS (NV) / Cochise College (AZ)
Myah Taylor	G	5-7	R-Jr.	Olive Branch, Miss. / Olive Branch HS
Sidney Cooks	F/C	6-4	R-Jr.	Kenosha, WI / St. Joseph Catholic HS / Michigan St
Jessika Carter	F/C	6-5	Jr.	Waverly Hall, Ga. / Harris County HS
JaMya Mingo-Young	G	5-8	So.	Bogalusa, La. / Loranger HS
Aliyah Matharu	G	5-7	So.	Washington, DC / Bishop McNamara HS
Rickea Jackson	F	6-2	So.	Detroit, MI / Detroit Edison Public School Academy
KN'isha Godfrey	G	5-9	Fr.	Tampa, Fla. / Tampa Bay Technical HS
Madison Hayes	G	6-0	Fr.	Chattanooga, Tenn. / East Hamilton HS
Charlotte Kohl	C	6-5	Fr.	Giessen, Germany / Theo Koc

top 5 scorers in bold

 

[Vowelguy]

When she said 8 players were committed to next season, I thought she was talking about current players and recruits combined. After all, this year's roster only included 12 players and 4 are transferring so if it is 8 from the roster then that would be everyone other than the already announced transfers.

Well she’s down to 6 plus 2 recruits, assuming the grad transfer Thompson stays an extra year. And seems like more transfers are expected?

 

[MSSportsGuy]

This dumpster fire will not end well for anyone. There won't be 1K people show up for a home game next year even if she manages to hang on to some players because the program that the community grew to love is gone. Sadly, once a coach has lost a team in the manner she did there isn't a way to recover.

"Her players" may wind up being okay and I won't dismiss us to the bottom of the SEC automatically but the pressure will be on if Ole Miss manages to keep moving ahead and the interest in the team dies off as I fully expect it to.

Nikki, like Fargas and Warlick, seems like a good person and on paper seemed like a decent hire (though I was rooting for Johnnie Harris if we couldn't open the wallet to get a bigger name). I don't think she did anything intentionally wrong and probably doesn't deserve all the blame as it's tough to replace someone with that much success but this has unraveled so quickly it's impossible to ignore.

 

[Vowelguy]

Questions -

• Did she alienate fans through comments andor demeanor?
• Are players leaving just because it’s a bad fit or she’s not good?
• Is there any reason to think that once she gets ‘her’ players and her system that things could be better? I will note a lot of programs have rocky transitions. Granted not quite this bad, but as comparison Coach Yo started with pretty much 0 players and looks like she started to piece things together in year 3.

unanswerable questions I know

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Once you get a couple of transfers it's easy for it all to snowball.

Players that probably would have been content to stick around if the continuity around them wasn't blown up suddenly feel like they don't have a choice.

It's a shame.

 

[Dwilliams02]

This dumpster fire will not end well for anyone. There won't be 1K people show up for a home game next year even if she manages to hang on to some players because the program that the community grew to love is gone. Sadly, once a coach has lost a team in the manner she did there isn't a way to recover.

"Her players" may wind up being okay and I won't dismiss us to the bottom of the SEC automatically but the pressure will be on if Ole Miss manages to keep moving ahead and the interest in the team dies off as I fully expect it to.

Nikki, like Fargas and Warlick, seems like a good person and on paper seemed like a decent hire (though I was rooting for Johnnie Harris if we couldn't open the wallet to get a bigger name). I don't think she did anything intentionally wrong and probably doesn't deserve all the blame as it's tough to replace someone with that much success but this has unraveled so quickly it's impossible to ignore.

I'm starting to feel bad for her. May have not been the right hire, the players seemed to want Harris. So any flaw she had, they would have jumped ship. Now I don't think every player destination will lead to success (basketball wise). Because of all the talent in the portal. Some players may not have that choice to choose from a luxury program and may have to settle

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Questions -

• Did she alienate fans through comments andor demeanor?
• Are players leaving just because it’s a bad fit or she’s not good?
• Is there any reason to think that once she gets ‘her’ players and her system that things could be better? I will note a lot of programs have rocky transitions. Granted not quite this bad, but as comparison Coach Yo started with pretty much 0 players and looks like she started to piece things together in year 3.

unanswerable questions I know

I've never heard anyone say a bad word about Nikki McCray.

I don't know if she has the chops to return Miss State to contention or not, but this has certainly been unfortunate.

I think she should at least get three years, but it will all be uphill unfortunately at this point.

 

[garddog]

Questions -

• Did she alienate fans through comments andor demeanor?
• Are players leaving just because it’s a bad fit or she’s not good?
• Is there any reason to think that once she gets ‘her’ players and her system that things could be better? I will note a lot of programs have rocky transitions. Granted not quite this bad, but as comparison Coach Yo started with pretty much 0 players and looks like she started to piece things together in year 3.

unanswerable questions I know

She never seemed to establish herself as the head coach. Too buddy buddy with players. There were warnings last off-season but it was ignored. Then early in the year, there were some interactions on the sideline where the posturing would never happen with the top coaches. Then it seems like she just quit, sat in her chair, never looked professional, sweats all the time. That lackadaisical persona crept into players. By the last quarter of the.season, no one appeared to want to be on the court.

Then as most already saw with the end of season press conference, she blamed covid for everything.

No one saw this gutting.coming. maybe a couple players, but not this.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Questions -

• Did she alienate fans through comments andor demeanor?
• Are players leaving just because it’s a bad fit or she’s not good?
• Is there any reason to think that once she gets ‘her’ players and her system that things could be better? I will note a lot of programs have rocky transitions. Granted not quite this bad, but as comparison Coach Yo started with pretty much 0 players and looks like she started to piece things together in year 3.

unanswerable questions I know

1. To my knowledge no. I think we were generally optimistic and she seemed to say all the right things.
2. It's tough to say. The new environment of transfer for the heck of it makes it difficult to judge. It was impressive to me no one left when Vic did (Bibby was already on her way out and AEH sitting out before moving on wasn't a huge shock either). It could be either or it could be players with poor attitudes no matter who took over.
3. One would like to think things could get better. A major difference between she and Coach Yo is Ole Miss was bad under Young Insell for several years before he was fired. The entire team left and Yo was building from scratch. She's pulled it together quickly considering how low the program had been for years. Austin's arrival along with Scott and major surprise from an in state recruit in Snuda Collins that few could have expected would be a starter let along contributor led OM to have their best season since 07 when they made the E8.

We all know NMP had a program with 3 McDonalds' All Americans and 2 other starters back yet didn't even look competitive for much of the year. That's a major problem regardless of who holds responsibility.

 

[garddog]

No idea what any of you folks do for work, but I can promise you that most companies would fire you if you lost 6 of your 10 biggest accounts in one year.

She is in arrears and the clock is ticking.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

She never seemed to establish herself as the head coach. Too buddy buddy with players. There were warnings last off-season but it was ignored. Then early in the year, there were some interactions on the sideline where the posturing would never happen with the top coaches. Then it seems like she just quit, sat in her chair, never looked professional, sweats all the time. That lackadaisical persona crept into players. By the last quarter of the.season, no one appeared to want to be on the court.

Then as most already saw with the end of season press conference, she blamed covid for everything.

No one saw this gutting.coming. maybe a couple players, but not this.

I saw a huge red flag during the A&M game when the team completely gave up. They didn't even have enough care in them to make an effort to win. When this years' team fell behind in games they would quit. Vic's team rarely went down without a fight even when losing was inevitable (ignore 16 Uconn and last night against SC lol). She showed 0 emotion on the sidelines and seemed to just stare into space. By the end of the year, the team was just over it and ready for the season to come to an end.

I didn't think her press conference was that bad and Covid is valid to a point but she didn't win too many new fans with her words and attitude.

 

[SECbbfan24]

Then as most already saw with the end of season press conference, she blamed covid for everything.

Yea that was a bad look. Every program was impacted by COVID....

COVID likely cost Baylor a 1 seed or a higher two seed with a chance to be in a final four at this time instead of having to deal with UCONN in the elite 8.

She took a team top 25 talent wise and a consistent top 10 program over the last 5 years and played them out of the NCAAT. They finished behind a bad LSU team.... let that sink in

 

[DefenseBB]

Yea that was a bad look. Every program was impacted by COVID....

COVID likely cost Baylor a 1 seed or a higher two seed with a chance to be in a final four at this time instead of having to deal with UCONN in the elite 8.

She took a team top 25 talent wise and a consistent top 10 program over the last 5 years and played them out of the NCAAT. They finished behind a bad LSU team.... let that sink in

I feel like a public defender assigned to court for a serial killer who had DNA of 10 victims on their body when captured BUT, not having all your team on campus over the summer to learn a new system and interact with a new coach is significantly more impactful than an existing program with returning players who know the system and the coach. Any new coach like NMP, Neile Ivey and Vic all had more challenges than existing coaches. Only one of these 3 thrived but that was after quite a few spectacular fails. I said it when many were saying Texas lacked talent, TEXAS has talent but were so grossly undercoached with Aston, that it took quite awhile to adjust to an actual coach.
Vic gets a B+
Niele gets a D+
Nikkie gets an F

 

[SECbbfan24]

I feel like a public defender assigned to court for a serial killer who had DNA of 10 victims on their body when captured BUT, not having all your team on campus over the summer to learn a new system and interact with a new coach is significantly more impactful than an existing program with returning players who know the system and the coach. Any new coach like NMP, Neile Ivey and Vic all had more challenges than existing coaches. Only one of these 3 thrived but that was after quite a few spectacular fails. I said it when many were saying Texas lacked talent, TEXAS has talent but were so grossly undercoached with Aston, that it took quite awhile to adjust to an actual coach.
Vic gets a B+
Niele gets a D+
Nikkie gets an F

I get that but the bigger picture is her team quit on her and didn’t look like they didn’t want to be there. That’s far worse than trying to adapt to a system and losing games but at least trying. If they lose games but play hard, it’s difficult to be too bad considering circumstances but they literally didn’t even try half the time. Their senior night they lost at home to an awful Missouri team by 20+ points and walked up the floor while Missouri ran on fast breaks

 

[southie]

Yea that was a bad look. Every program was impacted by COVID....

COVID likely cost Baylor a 1 seed or a higher two seed with a chance to be in a final four at this time instead of having to deal with UCONN in the elite 8.

She took a team top 25 talent wise and a consistent top 10 program over the last 5 years and played them out of the NCAAT. They finished behind a bad LSU team.... let that sink in

There are a lot of holes in that theory. I'm assuming you mean that Baylor was unable to play 2 non-conference games (Oregon and UConn); no guarantee that they win either or both. So many what-if scenarios in those two games (and a bunch of others that were not played) to truly know the effect on so many different teams as it pertains to their final seeding. Isolating one or two non-played games and assuming the effect on specific seedings is only a very small piece of the overall puzzle.

 

[SECbbfan24]

There are a lot of holes in that theory. I'm assuming you mean that Baylor was unable to play 2 non-conference games (Oregon and UConn); no guarantee that they win either or both. So many what-if scenarios in those two games (and a bunch of others that were not played) to truly know the effect on so many different teams as it pertains to their final seeding. Isolating one or two non-played games and assuming the effect on specific seedings is only a very small piece of the overall puzzle.

I mean I guess it is what if but they weren’t very sharp coming off the COVID break and ends up losing to Iowa State at home... which didn’t help either. They lost time to practice and play like other quality teams.

my point is McCray crying about COVID is a cop out. That’s not the reason they sucked this year. Everyone else dealt with it and many ended up taking some bumps in the road because of it briefly

 

[Vowelguy]

I mean I guess it is what if but they weren’t very sharp coming off the COVID break and ends up losing to Iowa State at home... which didn’t help either. They lost time to practice and play like other quality teams.

my point is McCray crying about COVID is a cop out. That’s not the reason they sucked this year. Everyone else dealt with it and many ended up taking some bumps in the road because of it briefly

That said, I think it was particularly difficult for any new coach. You dont have a bond or built-up trust with the players. You don't even have senior players who can pass on your vision and values in quarantine, since they don't know you either.

Yes Vic did pretty well. But he's exceptional. And let's not get too crazy. Before the NCAA tourney, I dont think anyone thought TX had a particularly notable year.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Maybe something to stop the bleeding a little bit?

 

[militarydog]

Good morning everyone,
Unfortunately due to some obligations my username implies I’ve been otherwise occupied for the last couple of months. However I’m hopeful to be back on a more regular schedule now.
Coach McCray- Penson had a very good resume and results from her stint at ODU. I’m still hopeful she can turn things around and was very excited when she was hired. Unfortunately at this point I don’t see anything on or off the court to substantiate that hope. It is very disheartening how fast this has gone south.
However I don’t see the immediate benefit of her leaving and trying to bring in another coach at this time. Part of the hire last season was getting someone that could hold together what appeared to be a very talented team. That is no longer a hiring factor if we went a different direction now. Yes, there were signs of substantial issues during Coach Schaefer’s final season and I think some players would have been gone if he had remained the coach. He even addressed the issues multiple times in press conferences and suspended players similar to Coach McCray-Penson. The key difference is that he still managed to do very well. Now he goes to Texas and does well there in his first year. She takes a preseason top five team and everything completely falls apart. Honestly I can’t think of a single positive from the season.
As I said above, I wish her much success because her immediate success reflects Mississippi State’s success. There just seems to be a bevy of excuses from COVID to player attitude. Well this coming year she will have her players. I hope it translates to wins on the court. There is nothing I’d love more.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Good morning everyone,
Unfortunately due to some obligations my username implies I’ve been otherwise occupied for the last couple of months. However I’m hopeful to be back on a more regular schedule now.
Coach McCray- Penson had a very good resume and results from her stint at ODU. I’m still hopeful she can turn things around and was very excited when she was hired. Unfortunately at this point I don’t see anything on or off the court to substantiate that hope. It is very disheartening how fast this has gone south.
However I don’t see the immediate benefit of her leaving and trying to bring in another coach at this time. Part of the hire last season was getting someone that could hold together what appeared to be a very talented team. That is no longer a hiring factor if we went a different direction now. Yes, there were signs of substantial issues during Coach Schaefer’s final season and I think some players would have been gone if he had remained the coach. He even addressed the issues multiple times in press conferences and suspended players similar to Coach McCray-Penson. The key difference is that he still managed to do very well. Now he goes to Texas and does well there in his first year. She takes a preseason top five team and everything completely falls apart. Honestly I can’t think of a single positive from the season.
As I said above, I wish her much success because her immediate success reflects Mississippi State’s success. There just seems to be a bevy of excuses from COVID to player attitude. Well this coming year she will have her players. I hope it translates to wins on the court. There is nothing I’d love more.

Thanks for the feedback. I think we all hope things get better. I said last spring before the hire I was rooting for Harris but agree that McCray-Penson had a good resume and background. I was optimistic and hopeful but my attitude went south pretty quickly and I did not defend what was clearly a terrible season for the team. COVID and player attitudes likely didn't help but she holds responsibility for taking a team that was thought to be top 10ish and failed to make the tournament. The subsequent exodus lets me know there were significant issues.

One year is way too short of time to give anyone and I would say the same thing about year 2 unless there is a complete insurrection or gross misconduct.

My posts have referenced my lack of faith in our AD and see this as an example of another hire that seemed to look good on paper (Moorhead) but in reality worked out to be a terrible fit. NMP still can turn things around but the program is now in worse shape than when Vic arrived. I am less than a fan of Cohen and was confused at his hire from the start. He has shown little to give me hope he's the right man for the job.