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Morgan and Allie

Bone Dog

Bone Dog

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Watching the USC game, I was struck by their freshmen, 4 of whom (Smith, Heckel, Howell and Samuels) got major minutes and made significant contributions in the first half. I couldn't help wondering why Morgan and Allie hadn’t been getting this much ‘real’ playing time. Morgan, in particular, had played against Heckel in high school and even engineered a defeat of LuHI, which looked to be the favorite in a game with national bragging rights at stake. And yet Heckel somehow shows up at USC and appears to be game ready almost right away.

Of course, it was a different story in the second half. Morgan looked to be at least as game ready and made good contributions on the defensive end of the court and ended up with more minutes than Heckel and Samuels, and roughly the same as Smith and Howell.

What I’m trying to get at in my clumsy way is that Coach Gottlieb relies on her freshman quite a bit this year and mainly seems to get away with it. Geno relies on Sarah to be the one-two punch alongside Paige and that’s really impressive. But I can’t figure out why it’s taken Morgan so long to break into the main rotation — which is where I hope she is from now on. I gather Coach Gottlieb had a good recruiting class, with 7 highly regarded recruits, but was it really so much better than Geno’s? Or are they merely benefitting from all the attention Juju and Kiki get while they’re on the court?

I can admit that sometimes Morgan and Allie (and Q) don’t look confident or decisive about where they’re supposed to be on the court. But the USC freshmen look confused sometimes too. That’s not the difference. If there even is one. Perhaps the USC offensive/defensive schemes are not as hard to learn as Geno’s. I’m just reaching for something to explain why it’s taken so long for Morgan and Allie to get major minutes in ‘real’ game time, not just garbage time.

And please don’t misunderstand me to be criticizing Morgan and Allie. My perplexity concerns more the way Geno and CD are developing these kids. I realize it’s hard for freshman to crack the main rotation at UConn. Paige and Sarah are exceptions, as were Stewie and Maya, to name just a few. I have high hopes for Morgan and Allie, and especially Morgan sooner just because of the intensity of her high school games. She’s been averaging over 10 mpg, but mainly in garbage time. Saturday she got 21 minutes all of which were when the game was on the line. I hope she can build on this experience and be ready to compete with Aubrey when she’s ready to return.
 
Bone Dog said:
Watching the USC game, I was struck by their freshmen, 4 of whom (Smith, Heckel, Howell and Samuels) got major minutes and made significant contributions in the first half. I couldn't help wondering why Morgan and Allie hadn’t been getting this much ‘real’ playing time. Morgan, in particular, had played against Heckel in high school and even engineered a defeat of LuHI, which looked to be the favorite in a game with national bragging rights at stake. And yet Heckel somehow shows up at USC and appears to be game ready almost right away.

Of course, it was a different story in the second half. Morgan looked to be at least as game ready and made good contributions on the defensive end of the court and ended up with more minutes than Heckel and Samuels, and roughly the same as Smith and Howell.

What I’m trying to get at in my clumsy way is that Coach Gottlieb relies on her freshman quite a bit this year and mainly seems to get away with it. Geno relies on Sarah to be the one-two punch alongside Paige and that’s really impressive. But I can’t figure out why it’s taken Morgan so long to break into the main rotation — which is where I hope she is from now on. I gather Coach Gottlieb had a good recruiting class, with 7 highly regarded recruits, but was it really so much better than Geno’s? Or are they merely benefitting from all the attention Juju and Kiki get while they’re on the court?

I can admit that sometimes Morgan and Allie (and Q) don’t look confident or decisive about where they’re supposed to be on the court. But the USC freshmen look confused sometimes too. That’s not the difference. If there even is one. Perhaps the USC offensive/defensive schemes are not as hard to learn as Geno’s. I’m just reaching for something to explain why it’s taken so long for Morgan and Allie to get major minutes in ‘real’ game time, not just garbage time.

And please don’t misunderstand me to be criticizing Morgan and Allie. My perplexity concerns more the way Geno and CD are developing these kids. I realize it’s hard for freshman to crack the main rotation at UConn. Paige and Sarah are exceptions, as were Stewie and Maya, to name just a few. I have high hopes for Morgan and Allie, and especially Morgan sooner just because of the intensity of her high school games. She’s been averaging over 10 mpg, but mainly in garbage time. Saturday she got 21 minutes all of which were when the game was on the line. I hope she can build on this experience and be ready to compete with Aubrey when she’s ready to return.
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Much like UConn last year, the Trojans need to use their freshmen this year.

Ash, KK and Ice all were playing 30min+ last year, as we did not have enough players! This year Morgan, Allie and Q have just been unlucky that the roster is large now. (although Morgan may be playing herself into more time).

Geno just won't go beyond 8 players in big games.

Last year U$C relied on JuJu and a group of Ivy league grad transfers. With the grad students gone, Gottlieb needs to use the new transfers and her famous freshmen to fill out the squad. They will have some rough patches this year, but will really benefit next year from experience.

Similarly, KK and Ash will be ready for lots of time again next year with Paige and Chen gone.

Lastly we are playing one of our current freshmen 30 minutes; she's strong.
 
Maybe because Geno knows what he wants, including in practice, and we don't.
And I apologize, but I don't think comparing how Geno coaches his teams to how Lisa Gottlieb coaches her teams is even worth any time whatsoever.
Were you comparing the two after last season's NCAA Tournament????
 
Centerstream said:
Maybe because Geno knows what he wants, including in practice, and we don't.
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I guess this is what I’m getting at. We don’t know… or at least I don’t. But I’d like to, and I’d like to think about the differences between what Gottlieb wants from her freshmen and what Geno wants. Do you have any sense of this? Or is it a forbidden question?
 
I think you will see Morgan in the regular rotation now unless the 8 player rule is ironclad. Aubrey, Azzi, Jana, and KK make 9. I think Morgan makes 10. That's all the more reason why I think you will see more pressing on our team from here on in than you would see at a busy dry cleaners in Manhattan. You gotta play a lot of players if you press most of the game. After Saturday's second half a change in strategy is inexorable in my book.
 
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packwrap said:
Much like UConn last year, the Trojans need to use their freshmen this year.
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Bingo! U$C also has a few sophomores who saw very little playing time last year and so far this year. Much as I've poo-poohed the "best in the nation" freshman class, they have impressed me, and kudos to them for fitting in so quickly.

Also, UConn's system is more complicated than U$C's. Read-and-react, constant switching on defense, it all takes time to learn, and if Geno has the luxury, he brings his freshmen along slowly.

I'll point out that Gottlieb has had one player, Laysia Clarendon, who's had a productive career in the WNBA. Her player development is obviously working this year, historically, maybe not so much. I hope she continues on her current trajectory.
 
Bone Dog said:
I guess this is what I’m getting at. We don’t know… or at least I don’t. But I’d like to, and I’d like to think about the differences between what Gottlieb wants from her freshmen and what Geno wants. Do you have any sense of this? Or is it a forbidden question?
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All that I think I know is that Geno, and his staff, expects certain things during practice. When players are put into games, the expectations are based upon practice and the game plan. If someone doesn't seem to be accomplishing it, they don't see much time.
As of right now, Morgan seems to be on the good list. And IMO Allie hasn't shown any memorable defensive plays, or maybe I missed them, so she may still need to work more in practice.
BTBH, I really, really don't know.
 
UConn has 3 true freshmen on the roster. Here are the minutes played in Saturday's game:

Sarah Strong: 38 minutes
Morgan Cheli: 21 minutes (Morgan was slowed during preseason by a hamstring injury but her minutes are growing)
Ally Zeibel: 0 minutes

USC has 7 true freshmen on the roster. Here are the minutes played in Saturday's game:

Kennedy Smith: 23 minutes
Avery Howell: 22 minutes
Kayleigh Heckel: 13 minutes
Rian Forestier: 0 minutes
Vuvuab Iwwuchukwu: 0 minutes
Brooklyn Shamblin: 0 minutes
Laura Williams: 0 minutes

Didn't UConn's true freshmen play a lot of minutes last season?

What exactly is the point of this thread?
 
I’d like to see Allie more in real games. Should have a few blow-outs in league play; bench players need real game minutes to get up to speed. Rest the starters more in these games!
 
USC had little coming back beside Watkins and Marshall. And, although they had Iriafen and von Oelhoffen transferring in, Gottlieb had an opportunity to develop her freshmen immediately out of need ... and fortunately for her, several of them have proven ready and worthy! Geno didn't exactly have that situation. He had Paige, Ash and KK returning as starters, Chen transferring in, along with Ice and Jana projected to handle the post duties. And, the #1 high school player in the land, Sarah Strong, along with the expectancy of Azzi and Audrey to return. There are just so many minutes and earlier in the season Morgan looked somewhat like a deer in headlights out there. Fortunately, that has now changed and she appears to realize she "belongs" and can play this game with anybody! I can't wait to watch her progress grow from here. Allie? I'm not sure why she's even in the conversation at this point. She's not ready! Q apparently is just in that odd man out position. She has talent, but apparently not enough in Geno's eyes to have earned more minutes over the teammates in front of her.
 
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Why is it hard for someone to point out what they see when they are in a game. Right now Allie isn’t up to speed on playing defense. And, when she is on the court her shot isn’t going through the hoop. This young lady can make baskets as she has proven along the way. Her playing time will increase because of the conference that we play in. Come the game against South Carolina I doubt that she sees the court.

Q, was recruited as an Aubrey type player. If you recall that she started in the games played in Europe last season. This young lady has plenty of talent. However she has to be at a certain spot instead of flowing through the offense. She looks lost on the court. And, she likes to shoot. Like Allie right now the shots are not going through.

Again with conference play coming she will play more. But, as I pointed this out in a different post the other day. When Aubrey returns and if she can play the team will be 10 deep in games that are tight.
 
Bone Dog said:
Watching the USC game, I was struck by their freshmen, 4 of whom (Smith, Heckel, Howell and Samuels) got major minutes and made significant contributions in the first half. I couldn't help wondering why Morgan and Allie hadn’t been getting this much ‘real’ playing time. Morgan, in particular, had played against Heckel in high school and even engineered a defeat of LuHI, which looked to be the favorite in a game with national bragging rights at stake. And yet Heckel somehow shows up at USC and appears to be game ready almost right away.

Of course, it was a different story in the second half. Morgan looked to be at least as game ready and made good contributions on the defensive end of the court and ended up with more minutes than Heckel and Samuels, and roughly the same as Smith and Howell.

What I’m trying to get at in my clumsy way is that Coach Gottlieb relies on her freshman quite a bit this year and mainly seems to get away with it. Geno relies on Sarah to be the one-two punch alongside Paige and that’s really impressive. But I can’t figure out why it’s taken Morgan so long to break into the main rotation — which is where I hope she is from now on. I gather Coach Gottlieb had a good recruiting class, with 7 highly regarded recruits, but was it really so much better than Geno’s? Or are they merely benefitting from all the attention Juju and Kiki get while they’re on the court?

I can admit that sometimes Morgan and Allie (and Q) don’t look confident or decisive about where they’re supposed to be on the court. But the USC freshmen look confused sometimes too. That’s not the difference. If there even is one. Perhaps the USC offensive/defensive schemes are not as hard to learn as Geno’s. I’m just reaching for something to explain why it’s taken so long for Morgan and Allie to get major minutes in ‘real’ game time, not just garbage time.

And please don’t misunderstand me to be criticizing Morgan and Allie. My perplexity concerns more the way Geno and CD are developing these kids. I realize it’s hard for freshman to crack the main rotation at UConn. Paige and Sarah are exceptions, as were Stewie and Maya, to name just a few. I have high hopes for Morgan and Allie, and especially Morgan sooner just because of the intensity of her high school games. She’s been averaging over 10 mpg, but mainly in garbage time. Saturday she got 21 minutes all of which were when the game was on the line. I hope she can build on this experience and be ready to compete with Aubrey when she’s ready to return.
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1) That would be 3 highly regarded recruits.
2) Only one guy knows the answer to this question and I don't believe he'll be discussing it.
 
Several have commented on Geno liking a rotation of 8. and others like me wish it was more like 10. While Azzi was out, and with Aubrey not yet back, Morgan appeared to be #8 and someone that would play some even in big games.

Presumably in the not too distant future, both Azzi and Aubrey will be back and ahead of Morgan in the scheme of things. Morgan then could be #10 in a rotation that may not go that far, but might if she is playing well. The small-ball lineup and her versatility and size may give her another route to minutes.

As a guard she is competing with KK, Kaitlin and Ashlynn, and of course Allie as well. Paige and Azzi's minutes if healthy are pretty much assured. Upfront the path to playing time might be easier. Ice and Jana have not lit it up at the 5 so far, and until Aubrey returns, Ice is the only true big backup option behind Sarah. Yes Paige is an amazing option there, but more out of necessity than choice. When Aubrey returns that easier path to minutes gets considerably harder.

So I tend to think of this early season period as Morgan's opportunity because of Azzi and Aubrey being out, to show she belongs in the rotation, maybe even if it expands to 10.

In Allie's case she is likely viewed mostly as a 2, where there are three options at that position ahead of her, Paige, Azzi and Ashlynn, maybe even Kaitlin who is often considered a 1/2, or even KK who clearly is a 1, but spend the majority of last year off the ball. Allie will get opportunities in Big East mop up minutes to show something, but this year is probably a learning one, unless the injury bug hits us again.
 
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It’s pretty simple I think. We have more game ready upperclassman in the way right now, especially for Allie. Whose minutes will she take? We dion’t even have Griffin or Ducharme (about whom there seems to be no return date) in the way which I think gives Cheli a bigger opening. I really love her game.
 
ConnMotors said:
Why is it hard for someone to point out what they see when they are in a game. Right now Allie isn’t up to speed on playing defense. And, when she is on the court her shot isn’t going through the hoop. This young lady can make baskets as she has proven along the way. Her playing time will increase because of the conference that we play in. Come the game against South Carolina I doubt that she sees the court.

Q, was recruited as an Aubrey type player. If you recall that she started in the games played in Europe last season. This young lady has plenty of talent. However she has to be at a certain spot instead of flowing through the offense. She looks lost on the court. And, she likes to shoot. Like Allie right now the shots are not going through.

Again with conference play coming she will play more. But, as I pointed this out in a different post the other day. When Aubrey returns and if she can play the team will be 10 deep in games that are tight.
Expand ...
Very accurate post
 
Bone Dog said:
Watching the USC game, I was struck by their freshmen, 4 of whom (Smith, Heckel, Howell and Samuels) got major minutes and made significant contributions in the first half. I couldn't help wondering why Morgan and Allie hadn’t been getting this much ‘real’ playing time. Morgan, in particular, had played against Heckel in high school and even engineered a defeat of LuHI, which looked to be the favorite in a game with national bragging rights at stake. And yet Heckel somehow shows up at USC and appears to be game ready almost right away.

Of course, it was a different story in the second half. Morgan looked to be at least as game ready and made good contributions on the defensive end of the court and ended up with more minutes than Heckel and Samuels, and roughly the same as Smith and Howell.

What I’m trying to get at in my clumsy way is that Coach Gottlieb relies on her freshman quite a bit this year and mainly seems to get away with it. Geno relies on Sarah to be the one-two punch alongside Paige and that’s really impressive. But I can’t figure out why it’s taken Morgan so long to break into the main rotation — which is where I hope she is from now on. I gather Coach Gottlieb had a good recruiting class, with 7 highly regarded recruits, but was it really so much better than Geno’s? Or are they merely benefitting from all the attention Juju and Kiki get while they’re on the court?

I can admit that sometimes Morgan and Allie (and Q) don’t look confident or decisive about where they’re supposed to be on the court. But the USC freshmen look confused sometimes too. That’s not the difference. If there even is one. Perhaps the USC offensive/defensive schemes are not as hard to learn as Geno’s. I’m just reaching for something to explain why it’s taken so long for Morgan and Allie to get major minutes in ‘real’ game time, not just garbage time.

And please don’t misunderstand me to be criticizing Morgan and Allie. My perplexity concerns more the way Geno and CD are developing these kids. I realize it’s hard for freshman to crack the main rotation at UConn. Paige and Sarah are exceptions, as were Stewie and Maya, to name just a few. I have high hopes for Morgan and Allie, and especially Morgan sooner just because of the intensity of her high school games. She’s been averaging over 10 mpg, but mainly in garbage time. Saturday she got 21 minutes all of which were when the game was on the line. I hope she can build on this experience and be ready to compete with Aubrey when she’s ready to return.
Expand ...
I think you will see them utilized far more in conference play in the coming weeks when hopefully they get some consistent playing time......Allie is way too good a shooter for UConn to not make better use of and I think we have seen Morgan play some pretty solid two-way ball already.......same goes for Ice and Jana.......Geno needs to force them both to shoot the ball more until the shots start falling......they both have solid offensive skills but appear to be short on confidence and conviction......
 
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It is really easy to arm chair QB and I really like doing it. I do realize that what I see for 2 hours during a game is not equal to what the coaches see working with them all week. With that said I will point out that my opinion on topics is for entertainment not to infer than I know more than any coach who gets paid to do it.

As far as Geno is concerned I think he is comfortable with an 8 player rotation so that is what he is going to play if the game is in question and I think that is actually a reasonable way to think. Of the players they recruit they will always have several that will only see the court when the game is in hand but his expectations of them will be close to what he expects of any player wearing a UConn jersey. Right now I don't think he is comfortable with the 8 he wants to play and is being forced (by player execution) to keep is rotation open longer than he might want but in the end you have to trust history.

If and when Azzi plays full time it will cure a lot of his ills and those of expert amatuer coaches like myself. Merry Christmas!!
 
i never expected Allie to crack the rotation this year. To me, she is exclusively a 2. And that is probably the position on the team with the most depth. Shade, Chen, Paige, Azzi, Morgan, KK, Q, Aubrey, and Allie. They can all play there.

Morgan is a different case imo. Morgan is getting some minutes because of her versatility. Paige said it. She can play any position. She isn’t getting enough minutes though imo. I have been calling for Morgan to get more minutes for a while. I think she would start at 95% of the schools in the country. And if she were, I think she would look something like Olivia Olson productivity wise. I know she will be down in the pecking order when Aubrey and Azzi come back. But Geno has to find a way to keep her in the mix. She is too good to ignore.
 
Conndog said:
I’d like to see Allie more in real games. Should have a few blow-outs in league play; bench players need real game minutes to get up to speed. Rest the starters more in these games!
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And this same post has been posted many times, for many players, in many different threads every season since the Stewie years (that's as far back that comes to mind...).
 
It pretty much comes down to how each coach wants to run their program and trust. Not to highjack this thread but folks forget that Caroline Durcharme was our Morgan, Allie, and Q at one point. Caroline could not crack the rotation and when she did get on the court, as a freshman, a turnover or a quick foul got her sent to the bench and we would not see her for the rest of a game or several games. It took several injuries to major players before Caroline's shortcomings were overlooked and she got major minutes and became one of our favorite UConn players, sadly it is like that with Morgan, Allie, and Q,

Their time will come. They just have to hang in there and embrace their current role on the team, but if I was Q, I would create my so-called "hit list" and be going at Morgan and Allie like a lion going after a gazelle. Like an attack dog going after a burglar. Heck I would not settle for going after those two, I would set my sights on cracking the starting 5! I know Paige and Sarah are locks. I would make it my mission in going at Ash, Kaitlin, or Ice's spot. Dang! I wish that I could attend practice.
 
Rowdy831 said:
As far as Geno is concerned I think he is comfortable with an 8 player rotation so that is what he is going to play if the game is in question and I think that is actually a reasonable way to think. Of the players they recruit they will always have several that will only see the court when the game is in hand but his expectations of them will be close to what he expects of any player wearing a UConn jersey. Right now I don't think he is comfortable with the 8 he wants to play and is being forced (by player execution) to keep is rotation open longer than he might want but in the end you have to trust history.
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I agree with some of this, maybe all of it.

I’ve probably typed the sentence “Geno likes an 8 player rotation” or “a 7 player rotation” or some other variation of it on the BY about 100 times. And I use the word ‘rotation’ the same way you do: who plays when the game is in question. By the way, I think this is true of most D1 coaches, especially as the season wears on. Anyone can see that the rotation contracts to 7 or 8 on most teams by March, as if by some sort of law of nature. For example, the tOSU team that ran a high energy and knocked us out of the Sweet 16 two years ago played 7. Really 6 since Mikulasikova only played 4 mins. Ordinarily one might think a high energy pressing team would need a lot of depth to sustain that defense. I say this for the benefit of anyone who assumes a 10-deep rotation is necessary to run a pressing defense — a group of which I am frequently a member.

Is he uncomfortable with the 8 he wants to play? This is an interesting thought (even though it feels self-contradictory) and I assume it grows out of the way he’s been using Ice and Jana, but has also reverted more and more to the shorter lineup with Sarah as the only post player. I think your idea must be that he’d like to be able to have two bigs in at once, but hasn’t had uniform success with this lineup yet. And against the background of this thought is the chorus of folks who think he can’t win without a “super-big” who’s 6’7”, and therefore Ice and Jana may have to play together with Sarah at the wing. I don’t know what to think of any of this, but if you’re right that the result is he “keep his rotation open longer” and this means a better shot for Morgan, I’m hopeful for her.
 
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