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More hockey realignment?

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upstater said:
Trust me, I know the lower levels of hockey very well. I never played. But I was indoctrinated into it by virtue of my closest friends to this day who all played HS, prep and were drafted. I used to go comp to bruins games and sit with the brass who drafted my best friend, who was also at BU at the time. I have been watching for a very long time. The Prep kids here for instance play in the Ontario leagues and against Junior teams. It is an entirely different level. I went to NDWH HS and watched that team play Leetch at Cheshire and Janney at Avon. Then I got a good look at the Boston Preps (who are still feeding talent into D1 hockey and then the NHL). I know the level of play. When I'm talking Prep here in Buffalo, I am talking about clubs that compete against the best in Ontario, and most of these kids go to juniors in their latter High School years.

Just as an example: Patrick Kane played in school and also for the Buffalo Regals club (which is a mile from me) until he was 15-16. He spent a half year in Michigan playing for another club while living with family friend Pat Verbeek before he joined the US National team at age 16.
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A little more personal information and I'll be over for beers tonite. Think the Cav's are on the tube. I'll bring snacks. Your wife good looking? Just asking...
 
upstater said:
Not by my eye. I have no stake in this, but having watched Boston schools and Buffalo schools play, the level is higher here. There are a lot more people living in Boston, so more to draw from, and more good players. But the top prep teams here easily compete with the top preps there. The top ones here compete in Ontario. Against colleges like Appleby. They travel across the country. They play those New England top Prep schools like Thayer. The hockey team the next block over from me plays Shattuck St. Mary's every year (a legendary school that fills D1 college rosters), and both schools are always in the top 10 of preps nationally.
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My apologies, I was only considering the public High Schools and/or the local, non-prep Catholic schools. Thayer, Avon Old Farms, Groton School, etc. play on a higher level. No question there. On the tier I was referring to, I stand by my belief that Boston area schools would beat Buffalo area schools 9 of 10 times. Last year's final (non-prep) high schools appear to agree as the Top 25 is dominated by MA and MN schools with a few from CT, VT, and MI also in there. No NY school is in the top 25 with Pittsford NY being the highest (#58). The highest NJ non-prep is Delbarton at #28.
  1. BC High, MA
  2. Malden Catholic, MA
  3. Edina MN
  4. Champlain Valley, VT
  5. Springfield Cathedral, MA
  6. Wayzata MN
  7. Detroit Catholic Central, MI
  8. Lakeville North, MN
  9. Cranbrook, MI
  10. Blaine, MN
  11. Hill-Murray, MN
  12. Burnsville, MN
  13. Xaverian, MA
  14. Austin Prep, MA
  15. East Grand Forks, MN
  16. Trenton ,MI
  17. Fairfield Prep, CT
  18. St Thomas Academy, MN
  19. Eagan, MN
  20. Central Catholic, MA
  21. Eden Prairie, MN
  22. Notre Dame-West Haven, CT
  23. BFA-St. Albans, VT
  24. Elk River, MN
  25. Notre Dame-Fairfield, CT
 
Mr. Conehead said:
My apologies, I was only considering the public High Schools and/or the local, non-prep Catholic schools. Thayer, Avon Old Farms, Groton School, etc. play on a higher level. No question there. On the tier I was referring to, I stand by my belief that Boston area schools would beat Buffalo area schools 9 of 10 times. Last year's final (non-prep) high schools appear to agree as the Top 25 is dominated by MA and MN schools with a few from CT, VT, and MI also in there. No NY school is in the top 25 with Pittsford NY being the highest (#58). The highest NJ non-prep is Delbarton at #28.
  1. BC High, MA
  2. Malden Catholic, MA
  3. Edina MN
  4. Champlain Valley, VT
  5. Springfield Cathedral, MA
  6. Wayzata MN
  7. Detroit Catholic Central, MI
  8. Lakeville North, MN
  9. Cranbrook, MI
  10. Blaine, MN
  11. Hill-Murray, MN
  12. Burnsville, MN
  13. Xaverian, MA
  14. Austin Prep, MA
  15. East Grand Forks, MN
  16. Trenton ,MI
  17. Fairfield Prep, CT
  18. St Thomas Academy, MN
  19. Eagan, MN
  20. Central Catholic, MA
  21. Eden Prairie, MN
  22. Notre Dame-West Haven, CT
  23. BFA-St. Albans, VT
  24. Elk River, MN
  25. Notre Dame-Fairfield, CT
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It's an entirely different scene. An apples to oranges comparison, really. The 5 or 6 schools in town with top talent are prep schools competing at the highest levels with many future D1 players and a handful (say 20) who eventually make the NHL. These schools don't register in your top ranked of high schools because they compete at the high school level in Ontario. In fact, the school I linked to before, Nichols, plays in an Ontario league and then travels to play Minnesota high schools and New England preps like Thayer and Berkshire. In that sense, it's hard to make a comparison. Seeing a good many schools on that top 25 list which I've seen play, the level of play at the schools here in Buffalo is a lot higher. As I said, it's equivalent to New England preps.
 
I didn't check the date of this thread. I just assumed it was about BCU wanting to run away from UConn again.
 
upstater said:
It's an entirely different scene. An apples to oranges comparison, really. The 5 or 6 schools in town with top talent are prep schools competing at the highest levels with many future D1 players and a handful (say 20) who eventually make the NHL. These schools don't register in your top ranked of high schools because they compete at the high school level in Ontario. In fact, the school I linked to before, Nichols, plays in an Ontario league and then travels to play Minnesota high schools and New England preps like Thayer and Berkshire. In that sense, it's hard to make a comparison. Seeing a good many schools on that top 25 list which I've seen play, the level of play at the schools here in Buffalo is a lot higher. As I said, it's equivalent to New England preps.
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I have only seen Avon Old Farms play from years ago, so have no insight there. The same syndication does rank the 'Prep' schools, which looks to be a combination of Northeast Preps, Clubs, and Super High Schools in MN.
  1. Shattuck Prep, MN
  2. Duluth East, MN
  3. Minnetonka, MN
  4. Salisbury, CT
  5. Lawrence, MA
  6. Cape Cod Whalers MA
  7. Phillips Exeter, NH
  8. Honeybaked, MI
  9. Benilde-St Margaret’s, MN
  10. Edina, MN
  11. Maple Grove, MN
  12. Eagan, MN
  13. Boston Jr Bruins, MA
  14. Neponset Valley River Rats, MA
  15. Dallas Stars, TX
  16. Northwood Prep, NY
  17. Noble & Greenough, MA
  18. Chicago Fury, IL
  19. Kimball Union, NH
  20. Avon Old Farms, CT
  21. Team Illinois, IL
  22. Victory Honda, MI
  23. Gunnery, CT
  24. Mid-Fairfield Blues, CT
  25. Little Caesars, MI
By the way, what is it with Michigan Club names? Honeybaked Ham versus Little Ceasers? Sounds like Robot Chicken contest. Victory Honda in the middle of Detroit? I have know people who have accidently driven their foreign rental to a Big 3 factory in Metro Detroit and have come out after the meeting only to find their car had been move to the back of the lot on its roof.

At least CT showing up a lot on the both lists, UConn hockey is in a good spot for recruiting
 
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Mr. Conehead said:
I have only seen Avon Old Farms play from years ago, so have no insight there. The same syndication does rank the 'Prep' schools, which looks to be a combination of Northeast Preps, Clubs, and Super High Schools in MN.
  1. Shattuck Prep, MN
  2. Duluth East, MN
  3. Minnetonka, MN
  4. Salisbury, CT
  5. Lawrence, MA
  6. Cape Cod Whalers MA
  7. Phillips Exeter, NH
  8. Honeybaked, MI
  9. Benilde-St Margaret’s, MN
  10. Edina, MN
  11. Maple Grove, MN
  12. Eagan, MN
  13. Boston Jr Bruins, MA
  14. Neponset Valley River Rats, MA
  15. Dallas Stars, TX
  16. Northwood Prep, NY
  17. Noble & Greenough, MA
  18. Chicago Fury, IL
  19. Kimball Union, NH
  20. Avon Old Farms, CT
  21. Team Illinois, IL
  22. Victory Honda, MI
  23. Gunnery, CT
  24. Mid-Fairfield Blues, CT
  25. Little Caesars, MI
By the way, what is it with Michigan Club names? Honeybaked Ham versus Little Ceasers? Sounds like Robot Chicken contest. Victory Honda in the middle of Detroit? I have know people who have accidently driven their foreign rental to a Big 3 factory in Metro Detroit and have come out after the meeting only to find their car had been move to the back of the lot on its roof.

At least CT showing up a lot on the both lists, UConn hockey is in a good spot for recruiting
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Salisbury School up to 4th? Nice! I really need to keep track of my alma mater better.
 
Mr. Conehead said:
I have only seen Avon Old Farms play from years ago, so have no insight there. The same syndication does rank the 'Prep' schools, which looks to be a combination of Northeast Preps, Clubs, and Super High Schools in MN.
  1. Shattuck Prep, MN
  2. Duluth East, MN
  3. Minnetonka, MN
  4. Salisbury, CT
  5. Lawrence, MA
  6. Cape Cod Whalers MA
  7. Phillips Exeter, NH
  8. Honeybaked, MI
  9. Benilde-St Margaret’s, MN
  10. Edina, MN
  11. Maple Grove, MN
  12. Eagan, MN
  13. Boston Jr Bruins, MA
  14. Neponset Valley River Rats, MA
  15. Dallas Stars, TX
  16. Northwood Prep, NY
  17. Noble & Greenough, MA
  18. Chicago Fury, IL
  19. Kimball Union, NH
  20. Avon Old Farms, CT
  21. Team Illinois, IL
  22. Victory Honda, MI
  23. Gunnery, CT
  24. Mid-Fairfield Blues, CT
  25. Little Caesars, MI
By the way, what is it with Michigan Club names? Honeybaked Ham versus Little Ceasers? Sounds like Robot Chicken contest. Victory Honda in the middle of Detroit? I have know people who have accidently driven their foreign rental to a Big 3 factory in Metro Detroit and have come out after the meeting only to find their car had been move to the back of the lot on its roof.

At least CT showing up a lot on the both lists, UConn hockey is in a good spot for recruiting
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I already mentioned Shattuck above in one of my posts. They are the #1 school on your list. They play the Buffalo preps. If you read this article, you'll read about Shattuck traveling to play a 2 games series in Buffalo against Nichols. The 2 school split in the last year, and they play again soon. I don't know why this list doesn't have Buffalo schools other than the fact that the Buffalo schools don't play in American leagues, but Canadian leagues.

http://www.southernminn.com/faribau...cle_25e1913d-0b60-5dc1-a52a-5024c63a9d38.html

Nichols for instance plays in the CISAA (an Ontario Hockey League) and the league sends kids to the NHL: http://www.pointstreaksites.com/view/cisaahockey/news-1675/news_117597

Have a look at this website to give you a sense of the interchange between Canadian Juniors teams and the CISAA and other Canadian school leagues. It will show you how kids leave these prep schools frequently in large numbers to play in the Juniors and then many in D1.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/index.php?status=league&leagueid=414

It's just a very different beast in Buffalo because of the proximity of Ontario. It makes more sense here since schools from So. Ontario are 5-60 minutes away. There's no point in traveling 5 or 6 hours to New England to get a game.
 
Minneapolis Star Tribune makes a case for why the B1G should add Arizona State Hockey as an affiliate member to the B1G for Men's Ice Hockey:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/283095481.html





"Arizona State would be a good fit for the newly formed Big Ten hockey conference. The six-team conference allows its members to play the first half of their season against non-conference opponents. The Sun Devils could limit travel expenses with non-conference games west of the Mississippi against Air Force, Colorado College, Denver, North Dakota, Nebraska Omaha, and the four Minnesota hockey programs outside of the Big Ten.

Once conference play rolled around, they would compete against like-programs in the Big Ten. Conference commissioner Jennifer Heppel said the Big Ten would consider expansion outside of its current 14-member institutions."
 
B1GOSU said:
Minneapolis Star Tribune makes a case for why the B1G should add Arizona State Hockey as an affiliate member to the B1G for Men's Ice Hockey:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/283095481.html





"Arizona State would be a good fit for the newly formed Big Ten hockey conference. The six-team conference allows its members to play the first half of their season against non-conference opponents. The Sun Devils could limit travel expenses with non-conference games west of the Mississippi against Air Force, Colorado College, Denver, North Dakota, Nebraska Omaha, and the four Minnesota hockey programs outside of the Big Ten.

Once conference play rolled around, they would compete against like-programs in the Big Ten. Conference commissioner Jennifer Heppel said the Big Ten would consider expansion outside of its current 14-member institutions."
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Obviously with the addition of Hopkins for Lacrosse the conference is not opposed to adding partial members. Although circumstances were completely different in that their inclusion allowed for the formation of a viable league. The B1G already has a conference, so I'm not sure what ASU brings to the table? Maybe it is as simple as adding a few automatic wins to the column for the top of the conference, but I can't see schools like Minny or UM wanting to give up additional non con games to play ASU. The occasional OOC trip for the players and for the snow bird alums? Sure. Every season on the schedule multiple games home and away? That seems like a tough sell.
 
Last edited:
Ldandy said:
Obviously with the addition of Hopkins for Lacrosse the conference is not opposed to adding partial members. Although circumstances were completely different in that their inclusion allowed for the formation of a viable league. The B1G already has a conference, so I'm not sure what ASU brings to the table? Maybe it is as simple as adding a few automatic wins to the column for the top of the conference, but I can't see schools like Minny or UM wanting to give up additional non con games to play ASU. The occasional OOC trip for the players and for the snow bird alums? Sure. Every season on the schedule multiple games home and away? That seems like a tough sell.
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I agree plus the B1G/John Hopkins alignment appears to be unique and multifaceted. First, Johns Hopkins' only D1 sport is Lacrosse, thus there are no issues with their other sports programs. Second, John Hopkins's AAU status as a top 10 national university is very attractive to the CIC members within the B1G plus U Chicago. It's a logical fit. Arizona State is not AAU (though it's a goal, join the club) and is ranked #129 (US News 2014) and has all D1 sports, though the PAC and B1G do work closely with each other. Thus, who knows.
 
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Mr. Conehead said:
I agree plus the B1G/John Hopkins alignment appears to be unique and multifaceted. First, Johns Hopkins' only D1 sport is Lacrosse, thus there are no issues with their other sports programs. Second, John Hopkins's AAU status as a top 10 national university is very attractive to the CIC members within the B1G plus U Chicago. It's a logical fit. Arizona State is not AAU (though it's a goal, join the club) and is ranked #129 (US News 2014) and has all D1 sports, though the PAC and B1G do work closely with each other. Thus, who knows.
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Any membership increase will likely come from an existing member moving up like Purdue or Illinois, or from a school with an existing 1a program like UCONN joining for all sports.
 
Ldandy said:
Any membership increase will likely come from an existing member moving up like Purdue or Illinois, or from a school with an existing 1a program like UCONN joining for all sports.
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Agree. I have heard that Northwestern is being pushed to add a team (they have the money and a decent metro area for hockey) while Rutgers would be pick #2 (again, hockey money); but, Rutgers has to get its financial house in order before that happens. Both colleges have teams in the collegiate club circuit, ACHA, which is what Penn St was before Mr. Pegula dropped $102 million into the program.
 
Mr. Conehead said:
Agree. I have heard that Northwestern is being pushed to add a team (they have the money and a decent metro area for hockey) while Rutgers would be pick #2 (again, hockey money); but, Rutgers has to get its financial house in order before that happens. Both colleges have teams in the collegiate club circuit, ACHA, which is what Penn St was before Mr. Pegula dropped $102 million into the program.
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Well aware, and God Bless Terry for his gift. Hockey at The Pegloo is a blast.
 
Rutgers is surrounded by 4 nhl teams. That will be a tough market to crack. UConn hockey is exploding. Quality games against top opponents are already putting 8k in the XL and they are going to have to remove the curtains soon, because the Whaler faithful are starving for hockey in Hartford. I can see 10k+ being the norm for top 10 opponents. UConn hockey will be huge and will go national in the next 5 years.
 
Stinger92860 said:
Rutgers is surrounded by 4 nhl teams. That will be a tough market to crack. UConn hockey is exploding. Quality games against top opponents are already putting 8k in the XL and they are going to have to remove the curtains soon, because the Whaler faithful are starving for hockey in Hartford. I can see 10k+ being the norm for top 10 opponents. UConn hockey will be huge and will go national in the next 5 years.
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One question, is too much fan success a bad thing if it distracts UConn from building a on-campus hockey arena in Storrs (5K-6K), which most folks believe is a must, and instead keep them in Hartford?
 
I can see a goldilocks scenario for hockey. Big games at the XL, a few in Bridgeport and the balance in Storrs.
 
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Mr. Conehead said:
One question, is too much fan success a bad thing if it distracts UConn from building a on-campus hockey arena in Storrs (5K-6K), which most folks believe is a must, and instead keep them in Hartford?
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I don't get the worry over a new barn in Storrs. It's in the planning stages and is required by HE to be built. It's happening.
 
FartMan69 said:
I don't get the worry over a new barn in Storrs. It's in the planning stages and is required by HE to be built. It's happening.
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Look up the history of how long and how many variations and locations it took Rentschler to get built. Never underestimate Hartford politics.
 
Mr. Conehead said:
Look up the history of how long and how many variations and locations it took Rentschler to get built. Never underestimate Hartford politics.
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True. But I would also add never underestimate an agreement with Hockey East. It will be built somewhere on campus.
 
dbmill said:
True. But I would also add never underestimate an agreement with Hockey East. It will be built somewhere on campus.
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Would love to see the contract language because 'campus' can be a very broad word, especially when Hartford is desperate for events, like UConn, to bring people into the city, and UConn does happen to have a 'campus' in Hartford.
 
Okay say that somehow all this paranoia turns out to be true and the hockey team decides to stay in Hartford, if they continue to draw crowds like they have been do we complain? I get that everyone in CT hates Hartford but you can't reasonably say these type of crowds aren't in part due to the easy accessibility of the city and promotion towards the Hartford county hockey crowd.
Btw I do believe an arena needs to be built in Storrs
 
Not everyone in CT hates Hartford. Many old-line Husky fans do for whatever reason, but it's starting to sound like they're completely out of touch now. People are loving the games in Hartford and Hockey East certainly will have no problem with them playing ALL of their games in Hartford.
 
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I understand your point but Hartford in no way, shape or form should be relying on UConn athletics to keep it viable. If UConn builds an on campus arena that could put pressure on the state to finally replace the XL and contend for an NHL team.
 
Which knowing our govt. they'll just let the XL turn into NH Coliseum 2.0
 
FartMan69 said:
Okay say that somehow all this paranoia turns out to be true and the hockey team decides to stay in Hartford, if they continue to draw crowds like they have been do we complain? I get that everyone in CT hates Hartford but you can't reasonably say these type of crowds aren't in part due to the easy accessibility of the city and promotion towards the Hartford county hockey crowd.
Btw I do believe an arena needs to be built in Storrs
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I don't hate Hartford, jut their politics. UConn's best interests are not always the same as Hartford's. UConn needs to do what is the best for UConn (not just athletically) and let Hartford sort out its own problems.
 
Some holiday break games in Hartford each season would be an excellent idea, students are on break, so they wouldn't show up, and families/youth teams have more time.
 
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